That's exactly what I've been doing, but you seem to think that just because I don't see things your way, I'm uneducated. I just look at things from the other side of the fence.

BIGJ. Nope, it doesn't speak for itself and I don't have to accept anything, just becaue someone types it. You and RedRage should get over yourselves already. You are not the know-all, end-all authority on "anything" here.
I have a right to type anything I want here.

A fence is a waste of taxpayers money to appease both sides of the political ailse into tricking themselves into believing they are " doing somethng".

A simple straight forward guest worker program would FUND our federal government, rather than SPEND taxpayer dollars.

As worked 50 years ago with the Bracero Program, employers would pay for health and accident insurance through private means for sponsored workers. Insurance companies would provide rosters of aplicants who they would deem worthy of ccoverage and assist in the employment agreement between the parties. The employer would then pay the fee for importing the workers for a defined period of time.

Many a Bracero became a resident alien when an employer found them to be useful employee beyond their term. Even more became, or gave birth to American Citizens in our great nation.

My father participated in such programs as an employer in the 1940's and 50's. Why can't we do this now?

Our current political climate demand that all sides of pandering to the employers hiring low level illegals to provide cheap disposable labor for construction, maitanence, and agricultural tasks. Key word folks...disposable.

Mike: Illegals exist in great numbers in Victoria. Check various lawn crew, roofing contractors, concrete men, and farm workers. Doubt you'll find many citizens there.

Suzy looks over her shoulder, looks around, and wanders about you RedRage. *shaking head and snickering* If you really knew me, you'd know that ain't possible.
Women's work is never done and I got things to do.

ahhh, I see. Don't like my message so you do what you can to dissuade me from continuing. That's OK, I have to go make my tortilla's now anyway. Read ya later.

Here we go again "what are we supposed to tell the children?"
Tell them life is not always fair,
Scooter Libby can lie to the FBI and grand jury,Karl Rove can ignore a subpoena, Alberto Gonzalez can lie to both houses of Congress, we can forgive drug addicted Josh Hamilton and lavish praise on him in a home run Derby event,but we must tell the children that entering the United States is a crime we cannot forget.
BTW Suzy you said you were not about culture but you compared THOSE PEOPLE  with fire ants yesterday..THOSE PEOPLE  are the gimme ,freebie culture....Quacks like a duck #2

cultural conservatism...that doesn't describe me. I could care less about ones culture. I was taught to obey the law and anyone not doing so, is a criminal...period. Criminals do not earn anything. They should not be given anything. They should not earn anything by breaking the law. Isn't that what we teach our kids? How do you justify telling them that it is OK for some people to break the law and be applauded, excused, and rewarded... others not? You cannot give kids those kinds of mixed messages. Is there any wonder that so many kids think they can get away with "lesser" crimes these days.
RedRage, don't tell me what I know and don't know. I live in a very small town where everyone knows everyone else and people talk. Maybe you should take off those brown-colored glasses you have on.
This thing shouldn't be about race, but apparently it is. You can almost feel the hatred coming through the words and pretty much identifies everyone who has posted to this thread.

What employer will hire an american if they can get someone cheaper? Those that comply with the wage and labor laws of the United States of America.

Cultral conservative=a philosophy that supports preservation of the heritage of a nation or culture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conserva...

Victoria ,Texas has a large enough illegal immigrant population to cause new schools being built? Where is this large industry that is hiring them?....I understand the problem of California, Arizona and New Mexico but Victoria?

I must get out more often.

yep, your funny. They are not busting their a## to make me comfortable. They could care less about me. They are here for themselves and they "are not" only doing jobs that Americans don't want. "Those jobs" are only a very small part of the jobs they are taking from citizens. What employer will hire an american if they can get someone cheaper? Get Real!!

to whoever said that I was a conservative. ROTFLMHO *shaking head*

Funny last year while my mother was dying,I spent a great deal of my time at the Citizens ER and ICR waiting room and I did not see a great amount of illegal immigrants. I was there every day for three months,of course I did not ask  anyone for their legal status.
I have been to the Social Security office twice,once for a new card and the other to give information in regard to my retirement. That office was quite efficient,I did not see a lot of people and I was in and out of there in less than 45 minutes...I did not ask for the legal status of those few in the waiting room.
Illegal immigrants are not eligible for federal welfare.
Are the illegal immigrants a sickly bunch of people,that they spent all their time in the ER and the security office.... Who's doing the roof and other construction jobs? Do they go in shifts?

suzy.... those "men" living in that apartment are out working on the streets busting their a** to make you more comfortable get off their back. They (mexicans) are doing the jobs that most "legals" dont or cant do.

I am afraid that Suzy is right.. when The hurricane claudette came around and made all the damage and they were all in the Astrodome.. my cousins work for the SS. office and they are managers of the area of Galveston.. and they all came in to help these people giving them 2000.00 checks or whatever they got.. but, they were in there and it smelled aweful... they said that the immigrants from south of the border .. would never get close to the tables unlike another race...they would keep to themelves and they would ask them to sign up and they would shake their heads no... NO.. because they didnt want to draw attention to themselves and would rather die of starvation .. all they wanted was to work to earn money.. Those people were the ones that cleaned up the Astrodome and help keep it from smelling like a sewrage... They said.. they would literally pull them over to the side and MAKE them sign up.. because they felt bad for them.. and they were afraid...and they said .. they told them they had just as much right to that money as the next person.. So, Suzy.. is right.. they donot like to draw attention to themsleves.. My cousins said it would make them mad because .. the other race was overpowering and inconsiderate .. and demanding..so my cousins started to do for the south of the border folks..

Ernie said

But as long as we have people like Mike to toss words like Xenophobia into the fray we can forget about the content of anyone's character being relevant. And we can forget about the issue of illegal immigration being discussed on any sort of relevant basis, Suzy. We've been conditioned enough to react predictably to the race card.

An irrational fear of foreigners or strangers=Zenophobia

Ernie said

Game's over, boys 'n girls. If you want to start your own government/country like AMERICANS did in 1776, I hear Antarctica's fairly well unpopulated. Try sneaking across the Straits of Magellan and cut 'er a go. That or grow some gonads and get rid of the graft and corruption in your own homeland so you can establish the next great welfare United States of Mexico. This one's taken by people whose ancestors fought and died and who are still fighting and dying in order to secure it to their children.

I'm afraid we're full up and I *know* we have our own problems to solve witout taking on yours.

Sorry if that seems harsh but if you drag us down the tubes with you we'll just have to take Mexico away from the Spanish and start all over again from scratch

Quacks like a duck to me.

Those people waiting in line at the SS office are Americans. If the guys are paying cash then how are they using tax payer money like the people on the LoneStart card. Yes there are problems with schools and health care, but with a proper immigration reform bill these people could pay property taxes too instead of sending the money to Mexico. Oh but you don't want that, you would rather just to round them all up and send them home. Your just another typical conservative looking for someone to blame all your problems on.

RedRage, how about visiting the hospital ER rooms at night, or the clinics, or the SS offices. Good Gosh, it is hard to go to the SS office and not have to wait for hours, and guess what nationality the majority of the poeople are sitting in the waiting room? Go ahead, take a wild guess. Of course, I am not there everyday, so maybe I just had to be there on one of "those days". And before you say it, no I was not applying. I've never been on public assistance and probably never will. I had to take my mother and handle a name-change on a SS card.
Sure, illegal immigrants pay with cash. Many of them get paid under the table and sure do not want to draw attention to themselves. And, explain the achor baby scenerio. That's not a gimme, gimme, situation?
It doesn't take personal experience to see what kind of changes, and expenses, have to be made at the schools to accommodate students that do not speak English. How many illegal immigrants own homes and property and contribute to school taxes? Property owners are having to cover the costs of new schools because there isn't enough room anymore, and not enough teachers, so more have to be hired.
Yeah, I've been in grocery stores where a large group of men buy groceries and pay cash. They all live in a single apartment. No cost there.
The playing field is getting more and more uneven. Property owners are fighting to be able to afford the rise in taxes and costs associated with owning something...because of the added expense of trying to support people that do not carry their own weight. This is the single thing that is causing the outrage over illegal immigration. Generally people don't complain until it hits them in the pocketbook...right?

redrage - thank you, I thought I was one of the only ones who noticed. I too worked at HEB through college. In Victoria, then in Temple and Waco, Texas. It was the same at each store. The Mexican immigrants would buy two to three baskets full of groceries and pay cash. It was the American people on welfare who would buy just as much groceries but pay with the LoneStar card.

"I have a dream....that one day my four little children will live in a country where they will be judged on the content of their character and not on the color of their skin." Dr. Martin Luther King, 1963.

Wonderful speech and a most noble of sentiments. But as long as white apologists and black opportunists and brown immigrants and green with purple polka dot and orange trim isolationists stop being victims, it ain't gonna happen. As long as problems like illegal immigration and politicians with poor plans are made into racial issues by the very people claiming to try to end racism, prejudice won't die because neither the apologists nor the opportunists are going to let it.

The illegal immigration problem is an economic problem, it's a societal problem, it's a logistical problem. It's far from a racial problem. But as long as we have people like Mike to toss words like Xenophobia into the fray we can forget about the content of anyone's character being relevant. And we can forget about the issue of illegal immigration being discussed on any sort of relevant basis, Suzy. We've been conditioned enough to react predictably to the race card.

Ring that bell, Pavlov...

Ernie

Mike My thoughts exactly... you just worded it differently.. Come to Houston where you sit down to get a haircut and this Asian Girl asks you.. how do you want it cut and then you say take alittleoff the sides and she then responds in ...Castellano.. (Spanish)..what about the back? you are looking at her with this surprise look..YOU SPEAK SPANISH? you ask her.... and she says yes I do ...I speak Portugese, Castellano, German, Chinese and Russian..and I look at her going Gosh.. I am lucky if I can read Castellano .. cause I speak and understand it....there  you go.. rest my case.. DIVERSE..
 
 
Isnt the Great U. S. of A. supposed to be a diverse country? "Let Freedom Ring".. "All Men Are Created Equal" etc etc.. Why are we fighting do we or do we not all have a right to be here..regardless..and The only one that put you here is the only one that can take you out.. I wonder who that could be..I think its the Dear Lord he said, Love One Another... Is that even possible?

Xenophobia is alive and well in Victoria, Texas.... Who authored that distorted history book Ernie was quoting from? You can still be an American and wear a do- rag,listen to 50 Cent, honor your 15-year-old daughter with a quinceanera,and worship in a mosque, synagogue or not worship at all. A lot of people are having trouble adjusting to our multicultural society.....America is no longer just a Protestant, NASCAR, country and western nation.

Bloody sacrifices and a heathen paradise, how quickly we forget how we Christians condoned slavery for 300 years... It's only been a little over 50 years since civil rights legislation was enacted by a civilized nation...We Christians sang loudly in the churches ,while our brothers and sisters were not allowed to drink from the same fountain.

This goes to show,anyone can produce one-sided arguments.
Why do people keep bringing up the Indian? To level the playing field ,by trying to get you to dismount your high horse.

Bill Clinton said it best "we can only fix what's wrong with America, with what is right with America."

BIGJ, it's not speaking to me and since you cannot even explain it, then it means nothing.

We should take a lesson from the Indians. "If" they had acted when the settlers first started coming, not trusted them, not tried to be befriend them, then we wouldn't be having this discussion right now, would we?
Because they didn't act right away, they were overrun and their land taken away from them. Strength comes in numbers and can we all say...deja vu?

Well, I do have to agree that the "Indian" comment is worn out. Not because it isn't true, but because it simply isn't germaine. We call indians Native Americans but were they? Current historical perspectives have "indians" crossing the Bering Straits on a land bridge from Russia and emigrating southward over the centuries to become what we know today as Indians. Damned immigrants! Ok, so they were legal at the time but only because no one had thought up immigration laws.

But wait, that's no different than the Chinese immigrants, the German immigrants, the Irish immigrants, the Dutch immigrants, the Spanish immigrants, the French immigrants, ad nauseum. Those silly Indians didn't meet in bilateral congressional committees to make immigration laws.

But guess what? The Spanish/German/Dutch/Chinese/Irish/French immigrants did. When they realized they'd arrived at one of the last great frontiers available they abided by the French/English/Chinese/Spanish/Dutch... etc. laws they'd become accustomed to. Until that is they realized they were being exploited for the bounty they'd discovered by Spain/England/France...etc. and decided there was no place left to run.

It was then they decided they'd revolt and fight for what was right; for what they preceived was *their* right; the right to live peacefully in the land they'd claimed as their own and to decide for themselves how that land should be governed.

We call those people "founding fathers" and the people who believed in them and followed them and died for the causes they espoused, AMERICANS.

Like it or not, that's the way it happened. Agree with it or not, that's the way it happened. There's jack bo-diddly squat you or I or anyone else can do about it because that's the way it happened. I'm not an Indian and, if you are, I never shot at you nor killed your people. I've never owned a black (nor any other color, creed, nationality, or sexual orientation) slave and chances are 99.5 outta 100 that you never were one. I am part Dutch/Irish, part Bohunk, part English and, if my grandpa is to be believed, part Indian - or Native American if you prefer. But I am 100%, onenationindivisibleunderGod, BY GAWD, American! And 98.62735684% Texan, by the way.

Could be there's a little Spanish or Mexican in there too. I dunno and don't care, but I don't habla espanol too bueno. Capiche? I hope to someday but that's for my own edification, not because this is likely to someday be Tejas instead of Texas.

Game's over, boys 'n girls. If you want to start your own government/country like AMERICANS did in 1776, I hear Antarctica's fairly well unpopulated. Try sneaking across the Straits of Magellan and cut 'er a go. That or grow some gonads and get rid of the graft and corruption in your own homeland so you can establish the next great welfare United States of Mexico. This one's taken by people whose ancestors fought and died and who are still fighting and dying in order to secure it to their children.

I'm afraid we're full up and I *know* we have our own problems to solve witout taking on yours.

Sorry if that seems harsh but if you drag us down the tubes with you we'll just have to take Mexico away from the Spanish and start all over again from scratch.

Ernie

BIGJ had this to say...

..."Suzy, when you said “There’s too many of them.” Then I have to question your motive."...

Motive??? What's your question about my motive?

Suzy, I agree with you on the Indian comment. What people forget is that before the Europeans came here, the Indian tribes were busy very often fighting and brutalizing each other.

Our own fighting didn't help matters, but it's not like the Indians of North America, and certainly South America with their bloody sacrifices were always living in a heathen paradise and then we came along and ruined it.

Economic collapses always mean economic refugees. That is what brought penniless old Anglos like Moses Austin to Spanish Texas. The early 19th century economic failure and bank collapses in the States (sound familiar) brought Anglo refugees here. This is nothing new. A fence or vile immigration rhetoric will never address the issue.

How many proponents of this fence are willing to pay the cost. Let’s continue to print more ever worthless paper or borrow from the Chinese and stick the bill to our kids and grand-kids. This fence is feel good stupidity with a price we are not willing to pay ourselves.

Illegals waving weed blowers are not the threat. Our economic and world wide political decline is a greater danger.

Anyway, NAFTA has made the border meaningless.

The Indian comment is getting a little "tired". My forefathers came from Germany...on a boat, with the proper papers, didn't get help from the government and didn't send money home. They became Americans in every sense of the word and didn't expect those already here to support them or speak their language. Doctors were a luxury, not a necessity. A person had to be dying to go to a doctor....and they paid for it themselves. Family members already here took them in until they could get on their feet. Now, if all immigrants had that attitude, I doubt if anyone would have a problem with them. There are too many of them with the gimme, gimme attitude and think they are "owed" everything.
No one will ever get me to think that it is OK for people to break the law and them "demand" rights that they have not earned and want someone else take care of them. IT'S NOT OK!!!

It kind of reminds me of african ants. They ravage and strip everything bare, and then move on to do the same everywhere they go.
If we want our country to turn into another Mexico, then do nothing, because it is coming. "We the people" cannot support everyone that wants to come here.
Mike, you cannot say that they can come here and support themselves entirely, pay their fair share, and.... support their families back in Mexico.

American Suicide...................Very sobering

Wherever you stand, please take the time to read this; it ought to scare the beejeebers out of you! This is from a Conference held in 2004....but everything said is even more applicable today!!!

We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado . In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration overpopulation conference in Washington , DC , filled to capacity by many of America's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor by the name of Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California . He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.

Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America

The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States . He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"

"Here is how they do it," Lamm said:

" First, to destroy America , turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and bicultural societies that do not assimilate are histories o f turmoil, tension, and tragedy.' Canada , Belgium , Malaysia , and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, Corsicans and Muslims."

Lamm went on:

" Second, to destroy America , invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. Make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal; that there are no cultural differences. Make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds

" Third, we could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec ' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: 'The apparent success of our own multi-ethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentrism and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.' Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."

"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."

" My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victim.' I would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority platoon."

" My sixth plan for America 's downfall would include dual citizenship, and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful , or stable society is against most historical precepts. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia , threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum" -- >From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'Unum,'we will " Balkanize " America as surely as Kosovo. '

" Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits. Make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual /bicultural country, having established multi-cultism, having the large foundations fund the doc- trine of 'Victim,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America , it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."

In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said, "Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book 'Mexifornia.' His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."

There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Even barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America Take note of California and other states. To date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engird in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."

Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.

This is my last post on this subject, but not without saying, “Be careful what you wish for."

I have been watching the four-part documentary on China by Ted Koppel. China is growing faster than any country in the world, because of cheap labor. The hate rhetoric, staggering economy and a lack of a comprehensive immigration reform bill will cause our source of cheap labor to go home. A lot of people will cheer that. They keep saying come through legal means. Not as easy as one might think, our government has told the EPA to lower their standards at the meat and poultry processing plants, the North Carolina tobacco farmers hire illegal immigrants. but they need more. Sure, some Americans can supply labor, at minimum wage, but EPA standards would have to go back to where there were, making it even more expensive for the employer. The North Carolina tobacco farmer that was interviewed said American workers cannot or will not work as hard or develop the expertise needed for this labor intensive job.

Part three of the documentary showed a relationship between having quality American goods being made in China, but bought cheaply at your friendly neighborhood Wal-Mart. Briggs & Stratton, would have gone bankrupt without the cheap labor. Something to keep in mind, American quality is still very much in demand, so we must continue to produce. What does China lack? Creativeness and quality.

I am all for rule of law, but I continue to see it abused at the local, state and federal level, so where do I start my outrage? No amnesty, fine come up with a plan to export about 12 million people at a cost this country can afford, If you think the economy is bad now, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Yes, illegal immigration has gotten way out of hand, but the blame is threefold.
1)Our government turning a blind eye, not upgrading it database, surveillance system, and just being incompetent.
2)Those companies that have no regard for immigration laws, the EPA, and its neighbors.
3)The criminal element, mixed in with the willing workers that continue to enter this country illegally, making it harder for rational Americans to accept a reasonable plan..

I see the fence as a temporary measure to keep honest people honest. Additional border agents, aerial drones, biometric cards, updated databases, and a comprehensive reform immigration bills are all good tools in securing our southern border…. I think the fence will be torn down, when the border is secure.

Thanks Tstorm5

We still have a constitution ,and we cannot continue circumventing it with knee-jerk proposals...We cannot simply throw employers in jail for breaking a federal misdemeanor, we should continue to follow due process, then let Congress enact legislation, if necessary for the enforcement.This should all be done with a comprehensive immigration reform bill.
 Illegal immigration is down at all border checkpoints,because of our economy, we shall see if  the amount of freebie expenditures goes down proportionally...I think not.... Illegal immigration is a problem,no doubt, but so are the people using it as a scapegoat for all of America's ills.
BTW That "our forefathers ALL  came in here legally" is a myth ,true not in the numbers that are currently coming over, but if you read up on the history of illegal immigration, you will find  that in the early days many came through Canada and several sneeked in hidden amongst the cargo,and several  more greased the palms of authorities to  let family members in.... This did not start, with the current group of illegal immigrants, nor does it condone  their actions ,or the companies that hire them.... It just takes the high horse out of the picture.

I'll say it again. You cut off all avenues of freebies, and you'll see a mad exodus for the border, and they won't have a reason to come. You arrest the people who hire anyone without proper, varifiable, papers, and confinscate their business.
Amnesty is not the answer. People should NOT get rewarded for breaking the law and stealing from the American people. We've had enough!!
If they want to come here to work and earn their way...fine. Let them do it the legal way, like their forefathers...and our forefathers did.
Charity can only go so far before it starts to sink the boat. We're starting to sink!!

Fencing is normally done to prtoect our property. But between two countries that share a border. Come on! Besides, the mexican people (Families) that come over here are hard working folks. They work under a false SS#. US companies(large & small)participate in this in order to hire cheap good working dependable people. Where does the SS money collected by the employer go? Take a guess. These workers pay income tax. And, they can get a refund by obtaining a ITIN number and filing their taxes perfectly acceptable to the IRS. IRS even allows these folks to claim dependents even if they (dependents)reside in Mexico. Alot of them don't file income tax return out of fear. These hard working folks are already HERE and throughout the USA. Help them get legal. These are not criminals. Help them become legal to work here, and only then will their money stay here in the US. Other wise, their money will keep going back to Mexico. We have plenty of crime here as it is. Don't matter what country anyone is from, there are bad apples in every bunch. Fence is a bad idea, anyway you look at it.

United States
South Korea
North Korea
China
Cyprus
Turkey
Northern Ireland
Netherlands
India
Spain
Morocco
Saudi Arabia
Yemen
Thailand
Botswana
Uzbekistan
Belarus
Kuwait
Finland
Israel... A 30 sec, Google search produced these countries with a fence
If security was an an issue then both borders would have been sealed Sept. 12,2001.....I think about 18,000 Borders agents will be hired before the end of the year.

I was thinking that, even with all the problems the U.S. is facing, we are the only country in the world that is building walls to keep people OUT. Contrast that with the wall the communists built to keep the east Germans IN. We, on the other hand, don't care if people leave. Heck, I'd be willing to help pay for the ticket for some of them to leave and not come back.

I am not opposed to securing our borders to keep America safer. What I am opposed to is taking land from American citizens to build this wall. I do feel that this wall alone will not stop people who still see America as the land of opportunity from making every effort to come here. If we are going to build this wall then lets back up this construction with proper immigration reform that will allow legal entry for people wishing to come here to work and make a better life for their families. Also, lets be realistic here. This wall really isn't about keeping terrorist out, it's about keeping Mexicans out. If this really was an effort to stop terrorist from coming into our country then we would be building a wall on the US-Canadian border and securing our ports as well.

The question of a fence being a good neighbor is not what we should be asking. Mexico has not been a good neighbor for quite some time now. I am generally against the fence; however, if you look at the crime rate of El Paso, it has gone down since that one has been built. If we stopped providing jobs here in the US, this would not be a problem. We should enforce existing federal laws by prosecuting both the illegals AND the employers. This is the best form of a fence.

Believe it or not Christina, the Great Wall is actually thousands of years old. The first portions of the wall were built in the 6th Century B.C.

Those that are against a border fence in the US should be on the other side of it. Period.