Hello Podunk,

I have a few points to make, and then I'm taking off, as I don't want to hijack this topic any further.

I think you have a strong case of a malady- moral and cultural relativism. I realize that other cultures view rape as cool, but just because another culture recognizes something as fine, doesn't mean it's okay. The Aztecs thought throwing babies into the fire of a volcano would pacify the 'god' there, but I don't think we have to be so politically correct as to say that all cultural values are equal.

And that holds for our culture as well. In the past our culure held slavery as fine and legal.

You say that society's moral compass as a whole determines what is good, evil, or neutral. What happens if the moral compass doesn't work??

How can you trust the "moral compass" of fallible man? Why not trust nature and the laws of nature?

We get the killing of Jews you mentioned, among other atrocities when we rely on popular opinion alone to guide during some epochs.

And you say that the killing of Jews was a national pastime for the Germans. Not so. There were people throughout the land and in the lands the Nazis took over who fought against the killing of Jews- namely Fr. Maximilian Kolbe, jailed and eventually killed in Auschwitz for printing millions of pamphlets to support the Jews and inspiring others to do so as well.

Also, Dietrich Bonhoffer, a Lutheran pastor who also met his death defending what was good and true against what was evil. Thousands of others did this as well.

They didn't go by the sick moral compass of Nazi Germany.

I have set up a blog on this topic, of knowing evil, so that whoever wishes might put in their two cents as well. I do not pretend to know the ins and outs of this at all, but I do have my point of view.

I'm sure others wish to get back to the topic of the Olsteens and faith.

BTW- I've never seen a cuss word literally wound a woman or give her HIV, but it's an interesting point, as they can wound one's psyche or emotions.
I see you pretty much say there is no evil in the world, only the perception of evil. I'll remember that in future posts.
Seriously, where did you learn this philosophy- college courses, or do you read on your own?
Gotta go.

Podunk, you have an interesting point of view.
You think logically, so you say, but can't accept the logical conclusions that you arrive at: rape is not evil.  If you really did, you wouldn't need the disclaimer. Suffering and death forcefully imposed on innocents aren't evil?
It ain't just an opinion that this kind of imposed suffering and death on someone is evil. It's a reality.
Are you schizophrenic???? Just kidding.
It is what it is. Got to go for now. Hope Freethinker shows up. Maybe he can jump in.

Sawbones, I hear what you're saying.
Very often, people group all Christians in one bunch- Bible-thumpers, holy rollers, and literalists. Not all Christians believe in Sola Scriptura and think that the Bible is a math, science, and history book.
I agree that scientifically some of the points might not stack up. But it was written with the point of view of the author in mind who might not be a scientist. If we say that the "sun came up" this morning, we are making a scientific error as the author of a book of the Bible.
 It's our perception that the sun came up, but scientifically it can be proven that it never went down, so it couldn't come up. Are we wrong?
If we claim to speak scientifically, then yes. But if we don't claim to be astronomers, then we're just giving our point of view.
The Bible does not claim to be a science book, history book, or a math book, though some books DO claim to be more historically based.
I am saying this from my point of view, as a Catholic, and I realize that others will disagree, but the Bible is a book which is factual on matters of faith and morals, period.
I'm not here to argue it, just to say that not all people are fundamentalists in their Bible views.
Also, I think that faith and reason are compatible. Marx, Lenin, and Stalin were out to create the human paradise WITHOUT God- 'cause religion was just the "opiate of the massses."
They took human reason and logic to the extreme- if it was profitable to work Slavs to death, do it. If women have 1-15 abortions in life so they can work to make the state great- do it. Forget the human spirit and any human digintiy Look at the human misery created by a godless society. Utilitarianism ruled.
On the other hand, faith without reason is also dangerous- like the wackos who go and kill abortionists or homosexuals in the "name of God," or the Islamic fundamentalists who kill themselves and others for Allah and 70 virgins (boy, what trouble!).
IMHO, temper faith with reason, and reason with faith. Take off one of the other, and we have dangerous fundamentalism of two kinds.

Justthinking,

I don't like to argue. I do like to discuss ideas, especially when they are interesting. Podunk makes some good points, though I don't agree with them.

I'm sure I do make illogical arguments- but if you claim that I do, have the decency to back up what you say, AND point out the other illogical points made by those using the same book.

I grew up Christian as much of America does. Though my parents did not go to Church at the age of 13 I became a Catholic. Learned much and at 13, though I was intelligent, I was no match for an Old Priest. So I submitted to my parents wishs and learned much.

Later in life I became a Protestant. With growing powers of reason the debates were no longer one sided.

Now the “Debates” are a no brainer, but debate on the validity of the Bible goes nowhere. Believers have faith. Faith does not require any reason or proof.

Simply pointing to the complexity of the universe does not prove the existence of God.

The Story of God is derived from the “Books” of God. Each religion has their own. Each will defend their “Book of God” with the same zeal as the others. To disprove one of the major world Religions’ “Book of God” will send the whole religion establishment crumbling down, thus the staunch defense.

So, the whole base is weather the Book you read is truth or not. IF it is truth, all is well with Christianity and Religion as a whole, if false, faith is for naught. Determining that should be paramount to anyone who is to base an entire life on a document. As previously stated one cannot use a document to prove the same.

The Bible is full of stories that simple reason, some basic math and good archaeology will disprove with ease.

Having said all that, I do not count it completely worthless. There are great life lessons, teachings of wisdom, instruction for a healthy life: Some very good basic sense teachings.
The Christian Theologians and Preachers who instruct their “Flock” to take the Bible latterly are not helping Christianity. Especially when those folks tell their “Flocks” that Science cannot be trusted on these matters.

I understand what you are saying Sawbones, but it puts the believers at a disadvantage here, as Freethinker was using the Bible to prove that God did evil.

Then non-believers should not be allowed to quote the Bible to supposedly prove God is illogical, non-existent, or contradicts himself.

Also, it's a whole other thread, but looking at the intricacy of nature, how matter is no longer being created out of nothing, for many that is enough to prove the existence of God outside of using the Bible.

For others not. I'm not here to change minds necessarily, just to discuss ideas.

So you're saying the actions of the Nazis, some Crusaders, conquistadors, and child rapists are not evil?
Then you have no leg to stand on, logically, when anyone does any evil to you. (It's not really evil, just an illusion.)
Am I understanding you right? I've read of people making this argument but never SAW or HEARD anyone who believed it.
Wow- you're not from around here are you? Not being critical, believe it or not, but just kind of amazed.No wonder you think that many people on this board are "hill billies." We really differ in thought.
If you really believe that these things are not logically evil, then why did you have to put a disclaimer at the beginning of your post? What goes against logic to tell you that you must explain yourself if they're not evil????
Anyway, Podunk, I believe that there is both moral and physical evil. I don't expect you to go along with this, but it's nice to see what you think.
Moral evil is often in the intent, or the will. Physical evil, such as partial birth abortion, child rape, etc. are certainly actions that are evil.
I can not imagine holding a young girl who's been raped and telling her that the action wasn't evil, that man only has a perception of it as being evil.
Also, seeing a dead Jew, gypsy, or Catholic is seeing an evil act.
When we violate laws of nature (using sex for violence, using medicine which should heal to kill babies and old people) these actions are evil.If you believe differently, so be it.
I just hope that one day you can see that some actions are both evil in their intent and in the physical action.
You’re losing me on this one. Not ‘cause I don’t follow you, but because I can’t believe you could fall for this.

That’s why you need FAITH and reason. Reason alone leads to such madness. (And I’ll also say that FAITH alone can lead to madness too, just to be fair.)

In order to prove a story in a document is truth, you must go outside that document to substantiate the claim. There is no logical way to prove a novel, biography or any other writing is fact by quoting the same.

Ok MaryAnn

Apparantly I wasn't clear enough so I will need to be more forthright.

I am not going to be drawn into an argument with you. It would just be an exercise in futility and, even worse, it would be a waste of my time. I used to get amused with arguing with religious zealots, but I was amuzed with a lot of stupid things in junior high (do you remember Vanilla Ice?).

So to reiterate, I will not be drawn into an argument with you. This will be the last time I post on this thread. if you try to argue with me on another thread I will merely restate my refusal to argue with you and move on.

I'm not debating, but tell my how I cut my own th'oat.

BTW, according to Podunk, I can't cut my own throat, God made me do it!! lol!

Oh come on, I think it is quite fair. Especially when I am asking a perfectly rational question. Are you guys dealers in reason? So am I, but both faith and reason.

Point out my "logical errors" or keep quiet. Also, while you're at it, point out that a non-believer quoted from the Bible before the Christian did.

Do non-believers quote the same Bible and make logical statements, but when Christians quote it, all of a sudden we're NOT logical?

Anyway, if Freethinker can ask me a perfectly sane (and polite question) quoting the Bible, then I have to be allowed to use concepts from the Bible as well as reason to answer it.

If Freethinker questions me about my "god" then I should be allowed to discuss my God in ways that describe him.

What's so odd about that?

Some people bash Christians with the Bible, but get defensive when we use the Bible and revelation (along with reason) for answers. That's really lop-sided.

What? You mean rape is only negative because it has a man-applied connotation to it? What about a woman-applied conotation to it?

Rape doesn't have to be "labeled" evil by man or woman for it to be evil- am I understanding you right?

Any woman or man who has experienced the violence can tell you that the ACT was wrong, evil, and BAD.

This is the same argument some people use to justify having sex with children- it's the perception of evil, having sex with the children is actually a "good" thing for them, and they wouldn't think of it as evil unless we gave them that idea.

What about abuse of power in both situations? Again, it's in the will AND in the action in these cases.

There are such things as EVIL acts, don't you think? So the Holocaust wasn't evil, it's just a negative connotation?
Where I come from, these things are called intrinsically evil, meaning ALWAYS evil.

BTW, I'm not debating, just exploring ideas that are put out.

I prefer first that you point out the logical fallacies you mentioned. It's only logical if you bring up some error you should be able to point it out.

MaryAnn,

In regards to your challenge to my posting, please re-read my question to Podunk in order to understand the extent of the conversation I intend to have with you.

Podunk stated, "Rape is a man-made condition." But you said man doesn't have control over his will, according to Christian teaching.

If rape is man-made, then you agree that God didn't create this evil or force the man to do it.

Actually, Podunk, I sit in the back ('cause in the back fewer people can see my kids and laugh at their antics), but I will say that I appreciate your line of thought.

I don't agree with a point or two, but so what- we don't always have to always agree.

I concur with the Bible that God created all physical and spiritual matter, and that He is omnipotent and is the Supreme Being.

I do not agree that God controls our choices. Creating nature and spirit is not the same as having mind control over beings that are free to love or hate.

You state: "....and that it's only through HIS will that he OFFERS you a choice, then he is responsible for everything you do. Since he is omnipotent he already knew which choice you would make; because he's omnipotent, remember."

If he gives me the choices of A, B, C, and D, and has created those choices, I see what you mean to a point, as He is the creator of all physical matter.

BUT, if A, and B, are benign, and C and D will eventually kill me, and I choose D, then God no control over my will. I have chosen things in the past that would kill me eventually, but God didn't make me do it.

Just because he created matter doesn't take away my ability and freedom to choose.

It's in the will that evil is done, and man is quite creative at this. Man invented sacrificing babies to the fire god, man invented gassing Jews and gypsies, not God.

Also, God foreknowing what we do is not the same as his making us do it. I might have a knowledge my kid will flunk out of college, let him do it to learn a lesson, but I didn't cause him to do it. Sometimes we need to learn the hard way, or we don't.

God doesn't always do our homework for us, or we'd never learn.

Anyway, that's my two bits.

Justthinking,You bring up logic..... great thing. Can you please point out my logical fallacies instead of presenting a big vacuum?
Especially since it was a "Freethinker" who first quoted the Bible in my conversation with him. If he quotes the Bible, I'll follow his lead and have a pleasant conversation.
He also brought up my 'god' first. SO, in order to be able to have a conversation, we do have to work with certain concepts to continue on.
BTW, Freethinker- it's great to have an actually civil dialogue with someone who differs in belief. Evil in the world makes a great blog topic. I have one started from a few months back, but I don't believe you brought up the Isaiah passage when you posted.

Podunk, God didn't create temptation- notice it wasn't God in the Garden that was doing the temptation. Did He allow it, yes. 
He "allowed" my son to smack his brother- but my son chose to do so. God didn't do it.
God did create Lucifer though, who through his own will chose to tempt Adam and Eve.Without free will, there would be no such thing as love. Forcing beings to love isn't love at all. Love comes at a cost, it seems.

Podunk,
Your comment "Once an opposing view is presented, religious fruitcakes just put their fingers in their ears and mutter "blah blah blah blah" until the dissenting viewpoint gets tired and walks off" is the exact reason I quit arguing with them at all.
I just wanted to ask, why are you arguing with MaryAnn?  You'd have a more enlightened conversation with a guinea pig suffering from down's syndrome, and you'd have a better chance of getting an argument from it that holds to logical forms rather than one loaded with logical fallcies.

Hey, Freethinker

You state: "Hi Maryann, a good parent does not threaten their children with eternal damnation!"

I have a different take on that. Supreme disobedience calls for supreme justice.

If you can say that my 'god' meted out eternal damnation as justice, than you should also be able to fathom that He had mercy and gave his only son to die for our extreme sins.

He kept his promise- we will die because of our sin, but we also can have eternal life with Him if we accept his love. That's a loving, good parent. His "threat" wasn't empty, and above all, his love is redeeming.

As a parent, God's mercy is greater than his justice.

As far as creating evil, that's not what Isaiah 45:7 says. Can you recall anywhere in Genesis (I'm going to suppose you're familiar with it, since you're the first one quoting the Bible here.) where anything EVIL happened before Adam and Eve chose to sin (disobey)?

There is none. All that God made was good. Man brought evil into the world, not God.

God just leaves us to our choices and allows things to happen. The way I see it, the greatest punishment God can do is to just leave us to our own ways- we REALLY can screw things up. Look around. God doesn't have to create evil- we've done a great job.

Ok my mistake. I just went and looked it up. It's a mutant beaver. I won't discuss the double entender inherrent in the phrase "mutant beaver."

One thing I'd like to know...Why are Joel Osteen's sermons ending up as news articles? Do the sermons of a former Faith Family Cult member qualify as factual information under the scrutinizing eyes of the Advocate's journalists these days?
 I remember just recently an article was published in the advocate about a mutant otter spotted by a fisherman and they even went so far as to show a skeleton of an otter and discuss the species with an expert. Of course we all know that fishermen are the most reliable sources of information about the creatures they've seen and the sizes of the fish they almost caught so I can understand why the advocate decided to publish the article with the unnamed fisherman as the only witness. 
Is the new trend for the Advocate to publish whatever people say and present it as fact? Ok well then great. Now we have mutant otter haunting our river's shoreline, Joel Osteen can cure cancer with his prayers...and the Advocate owes me 50,000 dollars. Dear Advocate, I'll take my payment in cash please, I wouldn't trust that you'd be able to fill a check out correctly.

Attacks on Christians continue. I believe there is something in the Bible about that as well....hmmmmm.

For a person to have so many "Maybe's" in their life (or alleged life), an open mind and heart might lead to more pleasing life.

Nah, you're happier to think of the rest of us as "ignorant" and "crapping in pants".

You're right, I don't know you. Nor would I care to given your miserable attitude.

Take responsibility of your life and quit blaming Christians, the climate, the goegraphy, the dog, the cat, and the chupacabra for your plight.

Hi Maryann, a good parent does not threaten their children with eternal damnation! Also, why did your god create evil?(Isaiah 45:7)

This is off the wall, but has anyone here seen the movie "The Bucket List" with Jack Nicolson and Morgan Freeman? The reason why I asked was because it's about two cancer patients who have a list of thing they wanna do before they kick the bucket. If you havent seen it then I would highly recommend it.

As for the Olsteens, I'm not really going to say anything that goes against them or in favor of them, good for her as the chemo went well. Big woof, we hear stories about that all the time, moving on.

so now the osteens are medical practitioners? send them a buck and I guess they will produce any result you want.

Podunk, I read a lot of forums and it's obvious you don't have God in your life because you are one miserable bitter person who goes from forum to forum trying his hardest to pi$$ people off. It's very sad because apparently you also go through your everyday life just daring somebody to look at you the wrong way, say the wrong thing etc... you're looking for a fight. I feel very sorry for you, I would absolutely hate to be so full of hate and misery all the time. People who have God in their life look for good in people and for happiness in their everyday life, they don't need to belittle and bully like you do. That's what you are is a troublemaking bully that gets jollies by tearing other people down. How sad for you. I would rather live my life believing and living like there's a God and find out that there's not, than live my life like there's not and found out that there is!! I will pray for you and all the other non believers on this forum.

I have met the Osteen's and their faith in God is tremendous. In fact,I called Lakewood the day before my husband was to have surgery and Ms. Dodie Osteen callled me personally and prayed for my husband. The next day I had someone else from Lakewood call me @ the hospital and prayed with me. Before my husband's surgery was over I had another phone call from Ms. Dodie's office checking on my husband. He had a remarkable recovery, and continues to do well. She has a special healing annointing, and I'll forever be grateful to her and her family. I'm also PROUD to be a member of Lakewood Church.

Hello Freethinker,

Following your logic would mean that no earthly father should punish his children either. Even many children today would recognize that a failure to discipline, punish, or admonish means a LACK of love from parents.

Setting rules and limits so that your children don't hurt themselves and eventually exterminate each other ain't punishment.

Yeah, I know you think God has been excessively harsh at times, but then we were warned repeatedly, weren't we?

I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation,whose purposes are modeled after our own-a God,in short,who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives after the death of his body,although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. --Albert Einstein

The delusional believe only in themselves. The wise realize their ignorance and trust in a higher power.

Some are too lazy to even leave the place they despise. What a life!

I trust the Lord. Olsteens and the like--not so much. Joel does have a nice smile though.  But, so do most used car salesmen.

Sunday mornings speech by Tamara's Mother was a great one.

Thanks for the nice article VA.

Podunk, your comment actually made me laugh, it was kind of funny. I'm sorry you don't agree with me, I was just expressing my thoughts on this article and comments made before mine. And I don't think of you as a heathen non-believer, don't call yourself such ugly names.

Praise God and all of His miraculous wonders! Why do you doubt that the Lord healed this woman? That's what causes people to not receive God's healing, doubt. It's faith, complete faith, that gives you access to all that God has to offer. You have to submit your life to Him and truly believe he is the way. I found the Lord in June of 2007 and have not looked back since. I joyfully take every challenge he puts in my path, because I know I will overcome it with him as my rock. And this talk of money, well, if you feel in your heart to give to a church, then do so, if not, then don't. Nobody is forcing people to give, it should come from the heart. I go to church every Sunday, sometimes Wednesdays, and I happily give what I can. I don't tithe, I just give what I feel is comfortable for me. Most Pastors don't have jobs so the church offerings are what make up their salaries. The money goes right back into the church, it's not used for any other purposes. So if you truly believe in your church and truly appreciate your pastor, then why complain about the offering?

Podunk is witty and entertaining (in a good way). Bighorn is overly sensitive (in a bad way). Get a sense of humor.

Again, the "Genius" of an unhappy dweller of Victoria finds it better to put down Christians, while whining about an area that they chose to live. Likely because that person is too ignorant and lazy to relocate to an area that they would find pleasant.

Thank you, Podunk for proving my point. It is not enough for you to criticize the subject of the article, you must also attack any and all Christians. You justified my earlier statement with your posture.

Any enlightened statements regarding Hindus? Muslims? Taoists?

Does the good lord have a cure for preachers afflicted with the permanent smile condition thing. And this does not appear to be a botox inflicted condition. Some of these guys can’t do anything with out smiling - preaching, talking, collecting cash, I mean everything. Does anybody have a picture of Joel Osteen minus a smile?And what is it with the VA? There are Century old denominational churches in Victoria that never get this feel good propaganda the Houston based Osteens command here.

I'm not especially fond of "mega" churches either, but refuse to judge based on my experiences. I attended Tamara's church once and found their self promotions to be a bit much for my tastes. And I wouldn't be comfortable supporting it. But it may be "just right" for some.

bighorn - I am a believer. But, I take issue with any preacher making multi-millions of dollars and living like a king or queen. And I bet God is very disgusted with their lavish lifestyles.

 Big J, well sorry about the hard times you have had but that does not answer the question "why won't god heal amputees"?   "Your faith is what you believe,not what you know." Mark Twain

Cemeteries are full of indispensable Christians - many are named Osteen. Christians die with bibles in hand everyday. Houston is the best place on earth to beat cancer. I wonder if MD Anderson Cancer Hospital (not mentioned) had anything to do with this.

Why is it that non-believers feel inclined to berate and belittle anyone who has faith? If you don't want, don't send in your coins and ignore the articles featuring religion as a topic.

Then again, the egos involved can't accept that God is superior and they are not "rulers" of the Earth.

Sawbones, yes, I HAD to seek assistance from the government for a few months. But I did not stay on it long because I found a job and stood on my own two feet. I didn't have any luxuries like cable, jewelery, name brand clothing, steaks, going out to eat.... my kids to this day HATE oatmeal and Malt o'Meal because we ate a lot of it when I had to stretch my paychecks between rent, groceries, daycare, gas, electric.... But we made it through. With God's help and guidance.

I can understand how people are leary of televangelists. I have seen the way they abuse the faith their followers have in them. I think that there is a special place in hell for those greedy b@st@rds. I think, some of them started out with good intentions but were quickly corrupted by greed. And no, I don't trust a pastor who wears Armani Suits and has a bigger diamond than Liz Taylor.... something is wrong there...... But there are some TRUE and HONEST evangilist's out there. Don't judge all of them by the actions of Kenneth Copeland, James Robertson, and others.

Yes... and she also prays for her millions to grow bigger and bigger each day. What a sham !!!

What with the healing power of faith, why is Dodie Osteen a widow?

Lindams,
I am glad to hear you turned your life around. ‘When you reach the end of your rope, hell, tie a knot in it”.

I hear another great thing in your story. You did not go to the Government for this life changing counsel. I don’t think you would have had the same success.

I agree that there are Televangelists out there who are bilking every last penny out of the poorest of the poor.... my step-grandmother was a victim of one such man... however I will have to say that Dodie Olsteen and her late husband John are not/were not charletans. I enjoy their ministries and have only recently begun to listen to Joel Olsteen.

In 1991, I was living in Houston. I'd never heard of the Olsteen's or Lakewood Church. Some really terrible things happened to me and my family. I ended up on the streets, battered, lost, emotionally devestated. I felt abandoned by everything and everyone. Someone took me to Lakewood Church. Then took me to meet John and Dodie. I remember them praying for me and thinking: "yeah and what's this going to do for me." I had gone into that church, pretty much against my will, and planned on killing myself after I left. I had everything planned out. When I left that building, that church.... I wasn't thinking about suicide anymore. I was thinking about fighting for my life... fighting for my children. I thought maybe tomorrow would be better. Things didn't change or immediately get better. I had many struggles ahead of me. A few months later, I was a different person. I moved to Victoria to be closer to family - I had a job, an apartment, and a new-found faith. No, I didn't join Lakewood Church and never went back after that one day. I didn't even join Faith Family when I came to Victoria. But I did join a church and saw many small miracles of Faith every single day. In my life and others as well.

People can scoff at this and find excuses or explainations, but you can never convince me that this was anything but the Hand of God working through John and Dodie.

I still wonder what any of this has to do with the article that Aprill wrote. I know it is typical on these forums to go off topic to express a personal opinion or make a personal attack on a person or group of people, but what does any of this have to do with whether or not faith can heal? It is a personal belief. You can buy into it or not. I don't get the attacks on the Osteens. I did not hear one word yesterday from Dodi Osteen's mouth that said that unless "you have faith and believe in me and my family and give us all your money" you won't be healed.

I think that, in order to get an answer to your question, you should sit down with an open mind with someone well-versed in the scripture. If, indeed, you actually listen and evaluate I think you'll find the answer you are looking for; but if you just can't buy into one's faith having healing powers afterwards, that's okay, too. I think it is an individual and personal thing as are all things religious and what you think and what you believe will not affect my take on faith as mine will not on yours.

I wonder what one has to do in order to be on the favorable side of this “Will”. Healing to some and not to others?

Its your faith..yours alone.. and Gods will..

I am still trying to figure out where in Aprill's article about Dodi Osteen's faith some of you found the message that it is all about money. Someone please explain this to me. I've never, ever in my entire life been told that I can buy my way into Heaven no matter what church I've attended. If it makes you feel better not to give when you go to church, then don't. It is not going to affect your salvation one way or the other.

If one is to believe that Mrs. Olsteen’s faith was greater, the reason for her healing, then the next logical thought would be, if ones faith was not enough to deserve healing from God, how much of what kind of faith does it take to make it to heaven?

Actually, to be accurate, the scripture says "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil".

There you go.. Thank you very much for your kindness

You welcome Big J..and its not that I dont have faith, or I dont believe in God ... I just dont like being asked to pay for it..like a bill...but I give to the lord out of the goodness of my heart.. and I like it much better that way it makes me feel like ...I am giving it to him whole heartedly.. without someone preaching to me about how much I owe.. that is why they call it tye.. and I tye 10% of my earnings to him... and sometimes.. I say Lord why dont you make me richer than rich hehhehee... I give you my money.. but I soon forget ..that everytime I go to church on Sunday's ...I ask him for the same thing...that he protect my family and friends that no harm come to them...that alone is payment for me...God Bless

Actually, to be accurate, the scripture says "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil".

Well, actually, she did not take the chemotherapy treatments. Her doctors told her it might/might not do any good since they could not determine exactly where the primary tumor was located. I've read it quoted many times before, but I'll quote it one more time (probably not verbatim). "I'd rather live believing there is a God and find out when I die that I was wrong than to live believing there is NO God and find out when I die that I was wrong." I can honestly say that I think if my little sister had had the same kind of faith that Dodi Osteen had I would not be mourning her loss 11 years later after the same type of cancer took her from me.

I am with you BigJ about faith but know what the other two are saying also .. that they use the system (The Dear Lord)(our faith) to manipulate you into giving up your life savings and they convince you that this is the ONLY way you will get close to our lord in heaven.. and as my 73 year old dad used to say (God rest his soul) this is the worse sin of all....stealing from people who truly believe in God and have Faith .......you are right they may not like the next afterlife ...but I am sure in a few we will get bombarded by those ... who do believe... 
oh yeah  I forgot...what happen to... MONEY...is the root of all  evil... wasn't that in the... cant recall the name of that book... Ohhh the Bible.. that is it..

Did she take the chemotherapy treatments or not? I bet they prayed, went to the Doctor and took that slim chance on treatment working. Looks like it did…..
How about all those who take the treatments, pray and still die???? I guess their “Faith” isn’t strong enough or God don’t have a mission for them any longer????

Back to the “Witch Doctor”……

Then why won't God heal amputees? Why doesn't he ever-ever-ever answer their prayers for a new limb(s)?