Hagan alleges plot against DA
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A hostile meeting between the district attorney and Victoria city officials sparked a year-long plot to embarrass the prosecutor, a city council member charged Monday.
"The mayor said that he wasn't treated with the respect that he ought to have been treated with," councilman David Hagan said. "From that point on, there began a concerted plan to embarrass the district attorney of Victoria."
Mayor Will Armstrong strongly denied the accusation. There has been a long-running battle between the district attorney and the city, he said.
"But a plot, a conspiracy to destroy him? I wouldn't describe it anything like that," he said.
Hagan made his comments after learning the city council would meet Tuesday with City Attorney George E. Hyde. Armstrong wants Hyde to discuss how executive session discussions should be handled in the trial of Police Chief Bruce Ure, who is accused of lying to a grand jury.
The meeting between District Attorney Steve Tyler and the city representatives probably occurred in May 2007, said Hagan, who was not present. The meeting was to discuss problems the police department was having getting Tyler to accept criminal cases, he said.
Armstrong, Mayor Pro Tem Lewis Neitsch, Council Member Tom Halepaska and then-City Attorney David Smith attended the meeting.
Hagan intends to testify the meeting led to a series of illegal executive sessions by the city council to make plans to embarrass Tyler, he said.
"I'm telling you, so help me God," he said. "So, I certainly understand why certain members of the city government are nervous about my testimony."
Hagan is confused by the mayor's response to the meeting and other things, Armstrong said.
"I thought it would be easy to work out our problems as public officials coming together," Armstrong said. "I have never been furious at Steve Tyler, but I've been more amused and amazed."
The meeting was simply an attempt to fix a system that was broken because cases from the police department and sheriff's office weren't being accepted. "It was mandatory that we get it working again," Armstrong said.
The council did discuss several options during the executive sessions, he said. Armstrong declined to be more specific until after Tuesday's meeting with the city attorney.
"But it's not against the law to dislike someone," Armstrong said. "It's not against the law to want them out of office."
Hagan also said he intends to testify that City Manager Charles Windwehen said the city council makes its decisions at illegal meetings at Moo Moo restaurant. The business is owned by Neitsch.
"He said he thought I would just want to know that because that's how things operate," Hagan said.
That conversation occurred in the summer of 2006 at a Texas Municipal League session conducted for new council members, he said. The session included a discussion by a municipal attorney that covered open meetings laws.
Windwehen could not be reached for comment, but Armstrong said Hagan is wrong because Denny Arnold was still the city manager at that time.
"I think Denny Arnold told him that as a joke," Armstrong said. "He's confused about a lot of things."
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Advice on who I should vote for BigJ?
So which side do you suggest I should take? IF, and I serious doubt it, if the matter of the trials is settled by the elections in May then we will all have a clearer understanding of what really happened and when.
You, my friend are putting the cart before the horse, no one can know what the outcome of any of the trials will be and what the outcome will be. Until then it is all speculation.
The judge , Honorable Judge Cheshire, always seemed fair to me, tho rather long winded at times.
April 10, 2009 at 7:10 p.m.Well BigJ, you did say "A convicted rapist for a sheriff", you didn't say "A former sheriff convicted for rape".
And , tho he should have been, Ratcliffe was not convicted of rape.
"Let say this to you and others, yall better clean up this mess in this area." Isn't that what the soon to start again trial and the other trials, or not, that follow are suppose to do? One way or the other?
Spock is saying that after all the trials are over , the outcome official, it would be interesting to compare what VA poster are saying now and what they will say then.
April 10, 2009 at 6:15 p.m.As I said on another related "thread" here, I'm making a copy of this one, in order that we can all discuss everything at some time in the future - when the trials have concluded, and all the rumors changed to some other subject.
It should be most informative concerning whatever is being discussed, then - and whomever is discussing whatever.
April 9, 2009 at 9:30 p.m.Everyone walks around with 2 buckets. A bucket of gasoline and a bucket of water. When you see the spark of a problem fire being lit. We can choose to douse it with water and put it out, or we can throw gasoline and make it worse choose wisely..
April 9, 2009 at 6:23 p.m.texasmom...You posted, "BJ is talking about Ratcliff i am sure."
Uhhh, mom, Ratcliff is not the sheriff and he's not a convicted rapist, either.
There's only ONE sheriff -- T. Michael O'Connor -- and BigJ wrote, "The problem Victoria is having now is product of ignorance and stupidity." He then wrote, "You have State Rep who ruin Texas Higher Education, A convicted rapist for a sheriff..." The only logical conclusion is that J is calling Sheriff O'Connor a rapist. There is NO OTHER WAY to read what he posted. I'm suggesting that he has slandered the sheriff and should either back up what he wrote or apologize to the man.
April 9, 2009 at 5:07 p.m.BJ is talking about Ratcliff i am sure.
April 9, 2009 at 4:32 p.m.J...You wrote: "You have...A convicted rapist for a sheriff..."
Wow, J, when was Sheriff O'Connor convicted of rape? Did I just miss the story? You might want to supply some documentation to back up your statement. I'm thinkin' the sheriff might not like people calling him a convicted rapist without evidence to prove the charge.
April 9, 2009 at 4:01 p.m.Some of us out in here remember Mr. Neitsch before he was a city councilman. My vivid memories of him from that time is that he was a self proclaimed expert gadfly about all the decisions made by all our local elected officials. So Kenneth, is Mr. Neitsch a case of don't do as I do, Do as I say? A milk cow can only give it out. Moo-Moo!
April 9, 2009 at 3:49 p.m.I still don't get it: If Hagen knew these secret meetings were being held, why did he wait til now to come forward?
If he wasn't in attendance of these meetings, how would he know what was discussed at said meetings?
By law, he cannot testify at what was discussed at these alleged secret meetings, because he wasn't there and it would be considered heresay, correct?
If we (the registered, tax-paying voters) put these jokers in office, why can't we just throw them all out and find new ones? A whole new city council; City Attorney; Mayor; DA; Police Chief ---- then Judge Cheshire can throw the case out and be done with it!
April 9, 2009 at 12:21 p.m.Oh, Dig...starting the day to your post from yesterday regarding "the meetings that never happened" was a delight!! Genius - pure genius!! (good stuff) Thanks for the recap.
April 9, 2009 at 8:47 a.m.I always thought that executive sessions where to discuss personal (HR) issues. In other words discussing employees personal information regarding there hiring or dismissal.
April 8, 2009 at 6:38 p.m."Smarty;" Really? That's incredible! They can simply by their own volition and choice make proceedings of the city council secret? This one I'll have to look up. It's amazing (well, anywhere but Texas, that it . . .)
Thanks, though - but are you sure, or just "pulling my leg?"
April 8, 2009 at 5:39 p.m.YumeNoArashi:
Sheriff O'Connor: Gimli (Its a moustache/ beard thing)
:-)
April 8, 2009 at 5:17 p.m.Some how this meeting sparked a really bad and never ending soap opera script to embarrass The City of Victoria.
April 8, 2009 at 5:12 p.m.Yume,
That is too funny! Are they gonna make it a sequel to the Lord of the Rings and call it a "Dirty Doings in the Shire?"
April 8, 2009 at 4:22 p.m.They have a Code of Ethics to uphold do they not?? I am pretty sure so. The Texas Municipal League, as Well as the TCMA and ICMA there is a code of ethics they have to uphold and some of these people sit on the boards.. and some past officials to and that is the truth. These boards and committees are like a networking thing, not only does it help them in the that particular city these good ole boy things stretch state and nation wide how scary is that?? right or wrong it happens.. I know that a lot of people have said the FBI ought to be called in and the DOJ they probably already have been!!
April 7, 2009 at 11:49 p.m.Taxpayingvoter posted a link to an excellent discussion of the Texas Open Meeting Act. If you haven't followed the link and read the piece I'd urge everyone to do so.
It would seem logical and even expected that an elected official would have the interests of the people, city, etc., if not at the forefront of his every thought and action, at least as a primary objective. How then is it even conscionable that the same official risks a prison term for so much as mentioning any piece of official business outside a duly published open-to-the-public official meeting? It doesn't make sense and the unswerving application of the Act severly limits the ability of the governing body to do what it is intended and charged to accomplish.
I'm afraid Hagan has seized on this reverse loophole (?) in the Open Meetings Act to attempt to sling mud at the opposition.
Ernie
April 7, 2009 at 10:53 p.m.Why is he giving a preview of his testimony? That doesn't make sense.
April 7, 2009 at 10:39 p.m.That is my gut feeling too.
April 7, 2009 at 10:38 p.m.the council knows they broke the law and did not follow procedure. my dream is to see some elected officials see prison time.
April 7, 2009 at 10:26 p.m.What is the council afraid of? Why don't they want him to testify?
April 7, 2009 at 10:11 p.m.I'm questioning the intelligence of everyone involved in this story! Hagan is in a heated council race & he allows himself to be portrayed as an idiot, the mayor comes across as a smug bully & the rest of the council as the bullies henchmen. It's like the city of Victoria is being run by a bunch of middle school kids.
April 7, 2009 at 8:59 p.m.Spock--
April 7, 2009 at 8:53 p.m.Neither the Executive Sessions nor the minutes thereof are public. Nothing strange there.
"YumeNoArashi," do you mean "on cue?)
DonMader, aren't the meetings and minutes thereof public record? If they aren't, Victoria is a place even stranger than I thought.
April 7, 2009 at 8:48 p.m.Victoria has been the butt of jokes for at least 35+ years that I can remember.
We would laugh how the regular folks would worship and brag about knowing people with money and a “Name” in Victoria then gripe about the cronyism, political backroom deals and outright illegal activities of the politicians.
Now when someone brings to light what’s been going on with city officials for decades people want him to shut up. These are either the same people who are always in awe with people with money and a popular last “Name” or people who never lived anywhere else but Victoria and just don’t know that life is different everywhere else.
Here’s food for thought; Why would a wealthy businessman who has never done anything for the citizens unless there was some personal profit to be gained want to be Mayor, Councilman or Sherriff? Do they really want to improve the city or profit from it?
April 7, 2009 at 7:42 p.m.P.T. Barnum would have the police chief personally arrest councilman Hagan at the council meeting. What will our ringmaster do?
April 7, 2009 at 4:16 p.m.Ah, the old "moo-moo" meeting trick. Very covert......I think I read that somewhere in a spy novel. X
April 7, 2009 at 3:26 p.m.TEA PARTY HERE?!?!? CIVIL UNREST SEEMS A THOUGHT AWAY...
April 7, 2009 at 2:23 p.m.I'm going to the City of Victoria Council meeting tonight and I have several questions:
1) Will Councilman,David Hagen, be arrested for breaking the law by copying and distributing Council confidential records?
2)If not, why not? (will the good ol' boy network protect him?)
3) if he is arrested, will he then expect the City to pay HIS leagel fees?
Definitely looking forward to the fireworks!!!
April 7, 2009 at 2:21 p.m.Lets get rid of them all, Hagan too!
April 7, 2009 at 12:58 p.m.David, David, David......
Please take that whiney, pouty look off your face when you talk to the media. Good gosh man, you're supposed to be an adult!
April 7, 2009 at 11:33 a.m.Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to Victoria. This town is a mess.
April 7, 2009 at 10:45 a.m.roberttx -- Your suggestion to tar and feather the officials is not too far off from those insane suggestions to re-elect and/or keep them in seat.
However, I can agree to the tarring and feathering as it will best represent the indignity these have brought upon themselves...
THE CURRENT OFFICIALS MUST GO........and YOU, the voter/taxpayer, CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE - AND MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!
April 7, 2009 at 10:32 a.m.I would like to comment. It's unfortunate that serious comments supporting the existence of a plot are censored/deleted.
April 7, 2009 at 10:28 a.m.the elected officials in this town are a JOKE !
let's warm up the tar and round up some feathers !
April 7, 2009 at 10:12 a.m.If THIS is what the future will look back on, in which to commemorate Victoria, then this performance has been one of the most pathetic displays EVER.
Appropriate music for such a juncture is available below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn_iz8...
April 7, 2009 at 10:02 a.m.I couldn't agree more with Darlins and Barry...get rid of all of them including Hagan, and start over.
April 7, 2009 at 9:21 a.m.It has become evident that the citizens of Victoria are lacking entertainment...
To address this problem, the elected officials are banding together in the hope of creating (long awaited) amusement and stimulating conversation to distract them all from the reality of a city degenerating right before their eyes.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!! (cue applause, performers bow)
ACTORS: Billy "been here too long" Armstrong, Stevie "nay" Tyler, Charlie "bear" Windwehen, Davey "wavey" Hagan, Bruce "the goose" Ure, Lewie "booie" Neitsch, Dennis "the menace" Arnold.
SPONSORS: Every tax paying citizen of Victoria, Texas
STAGEHANDS: The registered voters who ACTUALLY VOTED!!
April 7, 2009 at 9:21 a.m.Someone please help me out here .... did I read this correctly?
Hagen is "concerned" about a meeting that took place in 2007, in which he was not in attendance, but knows "for a fact" what was discussed????
Ok, I now firmly and truly believe that there is a conspiracy to not only embarass Tyler, but the whole of the city! GEEZE!
Can we just throw them all out and start fresh?
April 7, 2009 at 9:20 a.m.No matter who is right or who is wrong, we will probably never know for sure. Was there criminal intent or is this political grandstanding...who knows. Lets just clean them all out, including Mr. Hagan, so we can be absolutely sure we get a fresh start.
April 7, 2009 at 9:19 a.m.Hagan's grandstanding in the hopes that he'll get some votes in the election - He's standing up for the rest of us against the Good Old Boys League, right?
BS, Mr. Hagan.
Man, I can't wait until James Martinez wins the election.
April 7, 2009 at 9:18 a.m.Can a couple of elected officials discuss "official business" by themselves.... most of the time no... sometimes ok... but, watch out. It is up to the DA's interpretations and observations. "Coffeeshop quorums" can get you into trouble.
See what the Texas Municipal League has to say about private meetings...
http://www.tml.org/legal_pdf/111706Al...
April 7, 2009 at 8:28 a.m.Way to go Hagen for having the – to speak out. I for one, am tired of the old washed out city council members. That’s why Victoria doesn’t move forward. And oh poor babies, (police department), if you would do your job right maybe the DA would take more of your cases. I have seen first hand how our wonderful police department works. Let us see, a drunk driver kills 2 people, and due to the sorry investigation and collection of evidence, the man gets a simple slap on the hand. A drive by goes on and they say they apprehended the suspect, NO they didn’t! WE apprehended the suspect and held him until the officer arrived. NO the police didn’t find the shell casings WE did, they walked over them three times. You file a complaint and the officer tells you “No one else is complaining”.
April 7, 2009 at 8:20 a.m.BSOD, your comment is right on the mark. Everyone needs to read his comments again. Hagen is good for stirring up strife and seems to have no solutions, no vision or desire to help this city progress forward. Victoria is a great city and needs to begin the healing process. District 4 voters you have a chance to elect someone who will represent us well and I encourage you to get out and vote for James Martinez. We can work together, we can move forward and put all this political egotistical mess behind us.
April 7, 2009 at 8:17 a.m.Children, Children, Children.
You guys do know people outside Victoria read this.
April 7, 2009 at 7:32 a.m.For once Robttx, I agree with you 100000%. This whole bunch is rotten.
April 6, 2009 at 10:34 p.m.i would like the current batch of elected officials for acting like a pack of town idiots and making this town a true banana republic
can the whole of you PLEASE leave town and never come back, p.s. take your families with you too
April 6, 2009 at 10:31 p.m.Like blocking the thru traffic from Mr Armstrongs neighborhood? There is more than 1 petulant child in charge in Victoria.
April 6, 2009 at 10:28 p.m.Politics comes with its own unique environment. You have to understand and agree to tolerate the climate that is permeated by the opposing views or else you'll quickly become disillusioned. The ability of a council to act cohesively is paramount to projecting a positive image of a city that is run by a group of professional people. Sadly, Victoria is too big of a city to be experiencing it's current turmoil. This ensuing feud has no place in furthering the progressive growth of Victoria. Councilman Hagan is to be chastised for acerbating an already tumultuous state of affairs between an obviously vindictive district attorney bent on using the legal system to exact self-serving justice. Neither the district attorney nor Councilman Hagan are doing anything to benefit, or help improve our municipal or county governments. In fact, they are not part of a solution, they are part of a problem that is stifling the ability of our council to move ahead and address far more important issues. It is unfortunate that this petty bickering has taken focus away from more important issues facing our community. It's time for the community to stand up and demand that Mr. Tyler and Mr. Hagan stop their animosity and behave responsibly.
April 6, 2009 at 10:26 p.m.no comment!
April 6, 2009 at 10:23 p.m.Aren't you glad that Mr. Hagan isn't your banker? Otherwise, he'd be blabbing about your money situations all over town. Or your estate planner - he'd be telling your relatives who you left what to. Or maybe your preacher - telling about your confessions.
Funny how this entire trial has turned into the Mr. Tyler Hour. It's all about how Mr. Tyler is the victim. I sure hope no one out there has crossed Mr. Tyler, otherwise you might be dragged into court and have your life or career ruined.
April 6, 2009 at 10:22 p.m.Living in Victoria is like visiting the asylum everyday! Don Mader, you're a funny guy.
Have you noticed the ad next to this story--it's a cop, and the copy says: JUSTICE PAYS Get the education you need tp (yes--this is a typo on their part) advance your law enforcement career
Isn't that weird? Maybe it's a sign. He's looking pretty stern...
April 6, 2009 at 10:21 p.m.Go Mrs. Hagen, Go, go,go.....
April 6, 2009 at 10:12 p.m.David Hagan you are AWESOME... You are RIGHT on QUE and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.. That is the truth they did and do still have "illegal" meetings, and do illegal favors for people.. Yes sir.. Victoria open up your eyes.. This stuff goes way back folks.,. and it is WRONG!!! I'm glad there are people there that are FINALLY doing something about this.. This all ties into together.. Just because Mr. Arnold "used" to be the City Manager what make you all think he isn't "still involved in issues regarding the City? they all still scratch each others back if it is right or wrong. I'm sure Mr. Arnold wasn't joking.. I have seen them all in action.. Go David drag them all into in because they are all involved. Good ole boy favors..
April 6, 2009 at 10:02 p.m.I hope now that it is becoming clear who Hagan is and why he is not the solution and very much is the problem. Wake up district 4, Hagan is all about self-promotion. He fancies himself quite the politician. David Hagan for Govenor? ROFLMFAO
April 6, 2009 at 8:58 p.m.WOW! I have no words.
April 6, 2009 at 8:32 p.m.