To the point, this is a wasted issue. If a particular congretion/domination choses to accept and disagreeable stance, simply change to another which fits your beliefs.

I would not personally tolerate a spiritual leader so weak of character as to desire and commit sexual acts with a being of the same sex. Just as I hold political leaders in contempt with the same weakness. And YOU, if you have the same weakness. I hold you in contempt.

That being said, you have every right to do and practice as you wish. As I have every right to hold you in contempt. My weakness and flaw? Perhaps. But I will accept mine willingly? Absolutely. Do accept mine? More importantly, do you accept your own?

To Donmader your statment 'I believe in the Bible." thats good how about stoneing to death a women who was not a virgin at the time of her marriage..How about honor killing for a woman disgacing the tribe,,how about selling your daughter into slavery, for that much how about slavery,, all the above approved by the Bible You can always pick and choose what you want. You can prove or disprove anything by quoting select portions of the Bible

Oh, and on the homosexual part of this. I've known both male and female. Some made a choice to accept Jesus as their Saviour, others did not. Several gave up their sexual appetites completely. They turned from their earthly desires to heavenly ones. Did their desires change? No, did their actions change, yes. Did all deny their desires for the Lord? No, they did not. God knows the hearts of all men. My job on this earth is spreading the Gospel of salvation through belief in Jesus Christ, so that men might know Him. There is no other God like Abba-my heavenly Father.

Sorry freethinker, if you really understood the word of God, you would know that you can't unchristianize yourself. It is an unconditional covenant. Once you accept Jesus as your Saviour, it is a done deal. You may deny Jesus, even Peter did, but Jesus will never deny you. It is truly the most awesome gift from the Father. It is why I will always just worship and stand in awe of my Abba. The closer you get to God, the closer He will get to you, but you still have the choice to distance yourself as far away as you want. It becomes the difference in a great life or an abundant life on this earth as well as in heaven for eternity. I always remember that my life is just a vapor in God's creation. Oh, and I come from a long line of
unbelievers. Faith is choice, and when this prodigal daughter came back to His arms they were still wide open-from one scarred hand to another-just like the song says. God always waits for His chidren. Sometimes, He has to wait until death.

Cool Granny,no I do know the Bible as I was a Christian myself for many many years. You might be surprised at the amount of Atheists and Agnostics that were former Christians. Do you know about all the contradictions in the Bible. If not, I would say I do know the Bible better than you do.

All you well meaning folks who keep talking about the Christians of today who don't follow all the rules God laid out in Leviticus about eating, cleanliness, sacrificing, etc.., so why would you want people to think homosexuality is a sin today. You don't get it that the Old Testament was written to the nation of Israel. When Jesus came he passed on his message of grace for the Jews and Gentiles, which trumps the Old Testament. He spoke about the changes in acceptable eating, no more sacrificing of animals was needed, He gave authority to the apostles (Paul speaking out against homosexuality), the curtain in the temple tore at His death which meant we can go straight to God and no longer require a priest as a mediator, and actually the New Testament mentions all the ten commandments except the one about keeping the Sabbath, which was the Jews day of worship from Friday evening to Saturday.
So, our good old western culture over the past few decades has tried real hard, and quite successfully I might add, to make something that has been deemed a sin since time began into something that is no longer a sin, even in the pulpits of some of the waffling liberal denominations.

Goliadchica,

How sad that you are embarrassed about what people from other states think about Texas and Texans. Seems to me that their sweeping generalizations make them sound a wee bit prejudiced themselves.

I suspect that they may be liberals who sneer down their collective noses at conservatives in general and Christians in particular. But hey, that's the beauty of living in America, everyone can express their opinions and/or be embarrassed by what others think about the city or state they live in.

Personally, I'm a born again Christian and a conservative and I'm not embarrassed to say that. I don't hate homosexuals and believe that God loves them like He does any other sinner(including me). I do believe that homosexual ACTS are unnatural, immoral and are sins. That's stated very clearly in the Bible and I believe in the Bible. I don't, however, go around "thumping" people over the head with my Bible, constantly quote Scripture or say "Praise God" and "Thank you Jesus" every other sentence. People who make those kinds of generalizations insinuating that that is typical behavior of most Christians only show their own ignorance and self-righteous prejudices - quite frankly they bore me.

keep a stiff upper lip and reassure your out-of-town friends that you, at least, are not one of the great unwashed batch of narrow-minded know-nothings that live here.

freethinker, you don't know the bible very well, do ya?

I'm sure the author would be thrilled, but I posted a link to that gator story on Twitter and the link to this IMHO idiotic letter/article/rant caught my followers attention.

They were appalled that people would actually feel like that about gay people and asked me if everyone down here in Texas is as small-minded and prejudiced as they seem.

They also asked if everyone down here is a 'Bible-Thumper'.

And I thought only our politicians could embarass me on a national scale....

I am trying to figure out what Christians hate gay people. Just cause you do not agree with something does that mean you hate them? Telling someone that you are sinning in their religion is not the same as hate. Not like Islamic Facists.

DavidJ2363, you made a statement you can never demonstrate, that ALL those who "harp back to Leviticus" ignore the rest of Leviticus. This implies that you know every detail of the lives of every person who uses Leviticus as support for the rightful condemnation of homosexual activity.

What has actually been seen are examples of those who claim to be Christian and attempt to ignore the clear teaching of God through His Word by stating that there is nothing immoral about homosexual activity.

It seems we are living in a time prophesied by the Apostle Paul in 2nd Timothy 4:3-4: "For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity, will accumulate teachers and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths."

"Voting" as church assemblies on settled moral doctrine, officiating over unnatural unions as "marriages," allowing those living openly sinful lives to attain and keep leadership positions are signs of this obstinant age.

The ads some of you folks seem to be a bit riled up about are Ads By Google. Ads By Google will take keywords from the page the ad space is on and then post something relevant to the page. Why, I've gotten a few ads for Bible CDs and an ad for a poll asking if I thought gay marriage is wrong on this article alone. I have yet to get the gay cruise one, though.

Another interesting thing about the Ads By Google that I've noticed is that sometimes they will display an advertisement for something not related to what page you are currently viewing, but related to something in your browsing history.

That is why I get a chuckle every now and then when someone makes a bewildered comment about something along the lines of a lady showing off her "ladies." Makes me wonder what someone's been looking at on their computer.

I laughed when people were getting upset over a gay cruise ad...get a life people. They aren't making you go on one. They aren't even making you click on the ad.

onewhoshappy,
I know several gay couples that have been together for 20, 30 + years. Maybe you should leave the confinements of your barn every once in a while...see the world.

Also, EVERYONE gay or straight should be tested for HIV regularly. It's not a gay disease. Don't sound so ignorant.

OWH: The rules are the same for a homosexual or a newborn, infant,child, drug addict, or unfaithful heterosexual partner who is potentially exposed to infected body fluids-- as these events occur so treatment may began.

I don't believe the Advocate has any say so in the ads that pop up only the ones under Market Place on the right hand side of the page! The ones scrolling across the top too are local ads.All that other stuff is from whoever runs the Advocate's website.

Articles like this one on gays, allow many readers the opportunity to comment on, and show off their ignorance, prejudice and intolerance.

onewhoshappy
your comments simply show how small your universe is. There are numerous couples who have been together 30, 40, plus years. Life extends past the pews of your church. Who do you think those thousands of folks who married in California are ? Folks that just met ? No folks that have been together for years.
Momof2 :The reason most folks do not know about Atlantis gay cruises is that they are out of their finansial league. My lawyer is just in- they are just back from Russia thousands of them on a huge ship.

Famijoly, I understand your point, but I do believe that homosexuality isn't the sin, but the homosexual acts are considered sinful. Someone who has homosexual tendencies but lives chastely and according to God's word wouldn't be an unrepentant sinner due to his homosexual tendencies.

Anway, Freethinker, it's really strange to hear you or anyone say that Jesus says nothing about homosexual acts. Of course he does, in Holy Scripture.

Christians believe that Jesus is God.

The Bible is the inspired Word of God.

Paul says in a few passages that homosexual acts are sinful.

If the Bible is the Word of God, and Jesus is God, then He has spoken clearly about homosexual acts through His word.

If the New Testament says it- Jesus says it, because it's his Word.

Now, if you don't believe that Jesus is God or that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, that makes it easy as well. Then your argument that Jesus says nothing about homosexuality holds even less water, as he ain't God and the Bible is just like any other book.

If that's the case, then it's not useful in your argument.

I couldn't help but notice that as of this moment, the the comments on the "Con" article outnumber the comments on the "Pro" article, 22-0. This will make it 23 comments on the "Con" article. The interesting thing is that there are posts on this article, "Homosexuality clearly is a sin," that are pro-homosexual, while there are no comments at all regarding "Ministers of any orientation have place in church."

To those who try to final biblical support for homosexual behavior by saying "Jesus said nothing about homosexuality," Jesus did say "I am the way and the truth and the life" (John 14:6) and "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me" (Matthew 28:19). The risen Jesus called Saul-Paul (Acts 9, 22). After his personal encounter with Jesus, Paul wrote most of what we call the New Testament, including chapter 1 of his Letter to the Romans.

Since Jesus has all authority and is the way, the truth, and the life, and since He used that authority to call Paul, and the Letter to the Romans like Leviticus and the rest of what now call the Old Testament is accepted as inspired by the Holy Spirit (of Jesus and the Father), then we must conclude that Romans 1:26-27 is a New Testament reiteration of God's view that homosexual activity is "an abomination" (Leviticus 18:22).

The headline on this article got it right: Homosexuality clearly is a sin.

The concluding paragraphs of this article, along with the background notes on page 1A, reveal a key to the problem:

The background notes on page 1A say "The Episcopal Church formally voted last month to allow ministers in openly homosexual relationships ordination into any ministerial position in the church." The concluding paragraphs of the article itself refer to Evangelical Lutheran Convention's plan "to vote at the end of the month on the same issue."

How can morality be voted on?

google ads picks up on key words in the title, then matches an ad

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If you’re going to quote the Bible then please cite the passage that says a Jew is “going to hell” for eating shellfish.

“When did the memo that some abominations don't apply any more come out? I guess I missed it.” Try reading the Gospels, Jesus said he came not to remove to the old laws, but to fulfill them.

atxguy87,

Please share the passage in the Bible that says “it’s okay to cheat on your wife with another woman?”

I always find it interesting but disingenuous when people try to use the Bible to point out presumed flaws in Christianity. Usually their “information” is third hand and shows a lack of familiarity with the Scriptures.

STILL waiting to hear from the Advocate why a large ad for "Atlantis Gay Cruises" ran next to this story on the web edition last night. Was it a not very subtle editorial position? The work of a staffer who did so without permission? A blatant attempt at creating controversy to generate reader reactions? What ever the reason(s), it was in poor taste. Is the Advocate now going to start running "personal" advertisements in the want ads section with a sidebar explaining what the various abbreviations mean?

OR is the Advocate just going to pretend that the ad didn't happen?

Christian logic now that's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. Jesus never said one word about homosexuals. You would think if it was such a horrible sin he would have mentioned it.

j6toes Finally, some Christian logic!!!

As far as homophobia, I wasn't aware that the church was deathly scared of sinners of any type. Personally, my church would be empty if it weren't for sinners saved by grace. People who study the bible, instead of skimming it to find exceptions to the rules, find that God loves all of us, but cannot allow us in His presence with sin. The important thing is that ministers are held to a higher standard because they are the leaders of the church. They are the ones people look to for guidance, and they are the ones who will have to give an account for the souls they were charged with. Is the church scared of homosexuals? No. We openly invite them to come hear God's word. Should the Church allow homosexuals to minister? No. Nor should it allow adulterers, liars, murderers, or anyone STILL LIVING in sin. Repentant sinners are washed clean and are acceptable. Consider them, as I do myself and all my christian friends, "refurbished."

"God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

By abolishing slavery and ordaining women, millions of Christians have gone far beyond biblical literalism. It's time we did the same for homophobia. The bible does not say anything about same sex couples in commited relationships and Jesus never mentioned homosexuality.If a church does not want to have same-sex marriages they are not forced to do so. And I don't know anyone trying to make them.

Interesting.

"Did not the apostles commit sins, did not Jesus know that they would continue to sin; and is not all sin equal in the eyes of God." - John

Homosexuality is a sin, period.

Every preacher and minister is a sinner, speaking the truth of Christ to other sinners. God looks down on the sins of Homosexuals, as he looks down on all our sins.

We know that everyday we will fall short because we are "weak", so how can we look harsher on others who's weakness is just more apparent to us; than our own.

It is not our opinion or interpretation that will judge us; but how severly he who's right it is to judge, shall judge us.

While I could not be apart of any church that would participate in Homosexual marriages, I would bow to the word of God; from anyone that the lord choose for me to hear from.

There is a story in the bible about a roman that received the holy spirit. God's love is not limited by mans shortsightedness, anymore than man's will is greater than Gods.

God's will be done.

TWW. The old testament was written primarily to God's people, Israel. The new testament was written to Jews and Gentiles(all non-Jews). Homosexuality is not acceptable in both the old and new testament. Surely no one thinks the Creator of this universe makes mistakes and changes his mind about what is sinful.

DonMader..."The dietary rules in the Old Testament were practical rules meant to prevent diseases."

So, Don, tell us which other biblical rules -- admonitions -- abominations -- have been canceled and no longer apply. Eating shellfish no longer sends you to hell but homosexual acts still do? When did the memo that some abominations don't apply any more come out? I guess I missed it.

"There are clear standards in the Bible of the life a church leader should live, and to me homosexuality is outside of that," said Pastor Mike Hurt of Parkway Church. "I think the church should be open to all people who are struggling with their sin and who are trying to follow God, but there's a different standard for the church's leaders."

This says it all.

The bible is always picked through. It also says you can have more than one wife, as long as you do not take away one from the other. So while you are taking you vows forsaking all others and everything you have nothing left for the other. You have to take the whole bible in, not be a cafeteria person.

Hey, I want to be an engineer but I don't want to do what it takes to be one but I want the job and money. You want to travel over the foundation I design?

so its a sin for a homo to perform fellatio on another man? but yet its okay to cheat on your wife with another woman? so my sin is greater than a heterosexual? hmmm didn't know there were footnotes in the bible that made exceptions.

hmmm, i have an ad for scientology.com..... definitely need to work on this ad software

Well I guess the question is, "Chris Cobler, what are you thinking?"

Nope, still there.

Well that didn't take long - less than an hour before the ad for all gay sea cruises was pulled.

squirrely,

The dietary rules in the Old Testament were practical rules meant to prevent diseases. For instance Jews were also not to eat pork because of the potential for contacting trichinosis from pork that was not fully cooked; rules about separate dishes and cooking utensils used for birds (chicken)were meant to prevent salmonella. The people in those times obviously didn't know the names of the diseases, but were aware of the results.

As for gays, Jesus loved ALL sinners(murderers, thieves,,prostitutes and yes even homosexuals) in fact He died for them. However, if you are familiar with the story of how he stopped the Pharisees from stoning the prostitute to death, then you know he said to her "Go, and sin no more!" He would NOT have approved of homosexual acts.

Cherry picking verses in the Bible tends to result in misunderstanding. Sadly this is all too typical of people who don't like or understand Christianity.

As pilot said, "Let the games begin..."

even jesus loved sinners

Hey, can we sue if they don't allow straight people on these cruises? Are there any all hetero cruises?

Could the placement of the Cruise ad next to the story be a not so subtle editorial?

Perhaps it's just one staffer's way of poking fun at Christians, but still it's in poor taste. How childish!

Leviticus also says that if you eat shellfish(i.e. shrimp ect) you will rot in hell too...Funny how certain people pick and choose which of God's rules to obey… sounds hypocritical to me!
Jesus was a liberal and would have tolerated gays.
You call this a news story. Yellow news is all this is.

I believe that ad does a disservice to homosexuals who proport that they are on quests for monotonous relationships...oops, I mean monogomous. Was that a Freudian slip?

I saw that too Momof2. Actually I didn't, hubby did & thought I was cruising gay websites.

I hope your question is answered momof2, sale,sale,sale at all cost. PLEASE....That should be advertised on a "gay" website..

OK. While reading this story and agreeing with it, I look to the left and there is an advertisement for Atlantis gay cruises. Who links these to stories? Are you just throwing our beliefs in our faces, knowing that some of us who read the article are Christians, so mock us with a large ad for gay cruises and a picture of the 3 happy gay men? Give me a break. I really would like to know the answer. Who at the advocate links ads to the stories???.