The good of the many is not served, if "illegal immigrants" are used in any part of this project. I'm sick an tired of local construction workers losing jobs, because "Fat Cat" politicians; refuse to crack down on this problem. I honestly hope, that the city makes "DAMN" sure contractors and subcontractors ONLY EMPLOY legal workers. Until, things are made right, no one is going to shut up.

The Issue is simple.

1)Victoria NEEDS a new wastewater plant

2)The land for it must be purchased NOW in order for the the plant to start construction in time for the deadline that we must need the plant ready by.

3) This site that is in contest is the best site for the plant that will cost the least to contruct in the long run.

Now for the objections...

1) a handful of residents dont want it built in their neighborhood, a "not in MY backyard" mentality

2) the only legitimate complaint against it that they have is the "smell" it will produce

3) That "smell" is not an issue. modern plants have no smell to them

4) so the only "real" complaint thay have is F.A.L.S.E.

Therefore the whines and complaints of the few need to sit down and shut up for the good of the many

TxDOT release, 12/17: Loop-463 overpasses gets final past through finance approval.

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/news/067-2...

Soliz does his homework? You need to view the 12/15 meeting when Soliz stupidly asks Tom Schmitt that if staff liked Site#1 so much, why are you suggesting other sites. Schmitt replies: with all due respect sir, that is what you asked us to do.

Gabriel Soliz does not do his homework, and he really should.

Good observation Onestar and thanks for the information. I have seen the phrase consensus of the majority whenever Mr Armstrong does not want to vote on something or wants to direct city staff to do something. Should that procedure be brought to the city council's attention. Mr. Soliz seems very concerned about proper protocal. (He strikes me as one who does his homework before the meeting). What does this group think?

To All

a concensus of the majority

The city ov victotria is required to operate under Robert's rules Of Order. I(City Code Sec. 2-24. Rules of procedure.
The rules of procedure stated in Robert's Rules of Order, currently revised edition, shall govern the proceedings of the city council except when in conflict with the provisions of the city charter, Code or ordinances.)

There is no procedure for a a concensus of the majority loophole.
This is an attempt by the City council to avoid voting and disclosing a members position on a public issue

MattOcker:

What’s funny here is the reason you don’t recognize true conservative actions when they smack you in the face! What’s the reason? We will get to that in a minute.

First, take the Sewer project as an example since that’s what this thread is about. City Staff along with a professional contractor gave Council different sites to choose from for the sewer project, along with the recommended site. The recommended site is the recommended site because it’s the cheapest up front and long term cost to the tax payers. It’s the conservative choice.

Then you get fantastic 4 up there pulling the plug on the deal at the last possible second because .3% of their constituents begin to complain.

Then Truman doesn’t like the fact that the landowners are going to bank a lot on this deal. So he’s willing to make ALL the tax payers pay, Lord knows how much more, so that he can stick it to the City Manager and the landowners.

Since when did pride out weigh fiduciary responsibility?

Fortunately, the City Manager had the best interest of the City in mind, the foresight, the intelligence, and the negotiation skills necessary to keep the recommended site open as an option. Maybe the money he saved the City by keeping the recommended open as an option can go towards his pay check. Remember our pay for performance conversation from an earlier thread?

Now, lets look at the sidewalk project. I’ll quote directly from the Meeting Minutes from July 7th.

“overlaying the streets following the utilities replacement would trigger ADA compliance requirements for ramps and crosswalks at intersections and repairs of sidewalks would also trigger ADA compliance for the sidewalks too”

Now, lets pick out the important words here. “compliance requirements” as in not an option, must be done, do it or the City gets fined BIG bucks.

So if the City has to spend at a minimum 2.3 million bucks to replace the sidewalks, why not spend 423k more to get the option that “eliminates visible cracking, patching
and repairing nearly invisible, consistent look throughout project and can be easily
altered, repaired, or replaced.” Again, cheaper in the long run.

So, what’s the reason you don’t recognize true conservative actions? I don’t know. You talk a lot about conservative actions, but I guess talking the talk is a lot different from walking the walk.

One someone kindly inform me what the meaning of "a concensus of the majority" means in a business meeting, and its legal effect. I cannot for the life of me find it in Robert's Rules of Order

Ahhhh, so the City is changing the whole 2+2=5 thing. Now it's 2+2=4 Million? That's how the slush fund got so big!

Nevermind, I see the project is 2.7 million which is 423k over because of the pavers.

So where does this 4 Million come from MattOcker?

justataxpayer:

So then you are saying the sidewalk project is 423k and not 4 million as MattOcker has said?

On this particular issue, I would advise the city to make certain that contractors and subcontractors, do not hire illegal immigrant labor; in the slightest.

Considering I’m going to request that Immigration and Customs Enforcement or ICE, keep a close eye on “those involved” in this venture. I would hate for raids to occur once a month, and special investigations into the dealings of “Contractors” and “Sub-Contractors”.

It might add to the cost of this project, that would be unfortunate.

I’m sure finding people in the area, to assist ICE agents in keeping an eye on the activities of Contractors and Subcontractors, wouldn’t be to hard? It’s amazing what you can do these days with camera phones and You Tube, which for those “non-tech savvy” on the city council; are being monitored by various Federal agencies.

Ya have a nice day = )

justataxpayer:

I thought, as Mattocker said, the Sidewalk project was 4 Million.

Mr Mullins has every right to speak before the council, and every right to bring up any topic he wants. He just comes across as very angry. He has that right. Just as I have the right to perceive him as angry. The topic of condemnation was never a viable option - ever, and I believe it should have never been brought up. It just seemed mean-spirited. Nobody liked the land-owner's tactics - but that doesnt mean it is a viable option to bring up condemnation. Again, Mr. Mullins' voice has a purpose -angry or not - and should never be squelched.

As far as Hagan's future: of course no one knows. One can only suggest. But his double standard on THIS issue still hasn't been addressed. Please don't bring up sidewalks for his defense. Keep it on this issue. I am also not naive enough to believe that we the people have the right to know everything that goes on in executive session. Hagan does not have to explain himself - but I have every right to ask and bring up what I observe. And I observe a no vote that I believe goes against his staunch fiscal conservative record.

"Council member Polasek made some comments last night that will come back to haunt him. So did George Hyde."

I wonder if you could explain this statement MattOcker. I watched the meeting and didn't see anything wrong.

It is funny that a select few would like to redirect the important points of this subject towards the opposing city council members. It was obvious that Mayor Armstrong is leading his flock as puppets. Land grab is the big picture. Mayor Armstrong repeatedly demands “Site #1 is the right site”, (Yeah right). Why? So the city can combine this property with the other already contaminated city owned properties in South Victoria area, and then proceed to contaminate the newly bought site? How many more millions will we need to add to the proposed 20 million to be spent to build new facilities for all of the other yards that will be moved to site #1? I am sure the buildings and parking areas will jump out the ground (Right). We the tax payers are the ones who will be paying for the unnecessary plan. Also, what will happed to the Golden Layered North Navarro property that Armstrong is licking his chops at. Who will actually benefit from it? I am sure it will be the man with the plan. Furthermore it is his judgment to put the few families at risk that lives near the projected site #1. What is best for Victoria? Pay a few extra millions at a site that will not affect anyone. How about paying a few millions of dollars several times over when the surrounding population becomes disease ridden and infected. Do your research on sewage infestation. It can happen!

The council made the right decision by voting for this location. Hagan, Soliz, and Truman,...thanks for playing !!!!!!!!

If everyone would just listen to Matt, do what he says, everything will be okay. Really it will. He has a track record to prove it. Professionally and personally.

{insert dripping sarcasm anywhere above}

Let me translate:

investment = sacrifice

economic development = govt-funded competition repellent

Lone Tree Biz Park = scare crow for new business

Looks like Mr. Hagan will have a few of you on his side when he announces his bid for Mayor. This whole thing is going to get very interesting after the first of the year.

Thanks, Matt. I took several vacations and might have missed that meeting. I was thinking the most expensive option was $4.5 million, but the council is looking at a $2.75 million project. Only $800,000 of that is for sidewalks. The rest is for paving, curbs, making the sidewalks accessible to the handicapped, etc.

As far as agendas go: Mr. Hagan's agenda is plain as day - personal political advancement. That rules his decision-making. Not what is in the best interest of Victoria. Especially growth in Victoria.

Sidewalks: The council has yet to actually vote on it, and the potential business growth and interest for the downtown area is a real and realizable benefit that will ultimately benefit Victoria as a whole. Do we really want Victoria to turn into a static, never-growing community? Fact: Nice sidewalks and trees will ultimately encourage more business development downtown. It tells other communities and businesses that we want more than just the bare minimum for our town.

Building the sewer plant anywhere was going to have those in opposition. You can never make everyone happy.

It seems everytime Mr. Mullins gets up and speaks, he ticks someone off without much to back up his comments. He was uneducated or misinformed on the condemnation topic, just as he was a few months back when he railed on the Victoria Economic DEvelpment Group.

Now that the site has been chosen, should the council now look at ways to remedy the problem perceived by the people near the plant site. There must be a way either to demonstrate the new plants affect on nearby areas or to purchase a buffer zone around the site to address the issue. As mentioned before maybe the city could relocate the homeowners nearest the site to equal valued homes elsewhere in trade for their land. They will be way ahead in this matter if an attempt was made to address the fears of the few who will have to live next to the plant. This would only seem logical and would be far cheaper than having to have relocated the sewer plant in the long run. It may increase the initial cost some but then it could not be said that the city was not looking out for the people who would be most affected. A win, win ending to this problem. The city gets its new plant and the people closest to it are also taken care of as well. This buffer zone could be turned into industrial/commercial lots or city yards and barns centralizing the cities operations cutting costs incured by having many sites operating.

Matt, I don't recall the city council having voted on a sidewalk option. The staff just presented the final design to the council Tuesday and was authorized to advertise for bids. A vote will then follow in March whether to award a contract. The cost is projected to be $2.75 million.

Also in attendance last night, and Ms. Rangel deserves a lot of credit for making a tough decision. Mr. Hagan - You fight tooth and nail to save tenths of a cent on the yearly budget and thus the property tax rate, and now vote to knowingly raise rates on ALL of Victoria city resident's sewer and waste rates by opting for a different site? I don't get it. It appears to me that Ms. Rangel "fell on the sword" for the other 3 "no" voters, because any council member with Victoria's best interest in mind should have voted for site 1.

I am glad the city council did the write thing. Nobody will be happy with any location.

maybe the city should use the funds from selling the navarro st. city land (which will bring a prime price due to location) in buying out the people who truely don't want the plant built next door. This might be a workable idea or possibly buy them a site of equal value in another part of the city in exchange for theirs. The city could then resell to someone else who would know about the plant ahead of time. I'm sure there would be buyers that would buy these properties. If not then they could be torn down and converted into city yards freeing up other locations owned by the city for sale for developement. This might be a solution that would make everyone happy and consolidate operations of the city to a single site allowing for lower costs due to these being at sites spread around the city now. Eliminating the need to heat and cool them all and have less people needed to answer phones and provide cleaning and maintanance at all these locations.

As a pointy eared Vulcan once stated "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

It really doesn't matter where the plant is built, someone is going to be upset about it. In fact no one wants one near their homes or property. On the other hand no one wants to have higher taxes and/or a sewer system that doesn't work effectively or has seen its capacity outgrown. The fact is anyone considering buying property to live on or as an investment needs to be mindful of certain things and the fact that sewer plants need to be built on low land is one of them. A tough decision was made by the council and I applaud the four members who looked at the bigger picture and made the decision to do what will be best for the entire city.

Ms. Rangel didn't sell out. People don't want to pay more on any of their bills than necessary. I applaud the Coucil for upsetting a few for the good of the many. Face it no one wants a plant near them but it does have to go somewhere and this is the best place. Engineering firms picked this site almost a year ago. We should be a little put off that they didn't purchase it sooner. In the end, this is the right decision and now everyone can move on.

Everyone in the city would be affected by higher sewer bills, said Mrs. Rangel. Well, if I recall correctly the people living in the area were willing to pay higher sewer bills and the people not living in the area, can surely afford to do the same. That was a contradiction of the issue. Voters! do not forget. We have the power, now we need to get up off our lazy.. and make changes to better our lives and our children's lives.

Beep,

I agree. Council made a very wish and difficult decision. I was in the audience as an observer. I applaud the Mayor for his handling of the meeting. He did a much better job. Mrs. Rangel made a very difficult but correct decision tonight.
Let's move forward and heal the community over this rift.

I congratulate the four people on the Council who have exercised both valid business judgment and the concern for ALL of the citizenry and not just one neighborhood in their voting. I hope that the Council will continue to act responsibly, as their oath of office requires them, to move forward in their obligation of trust to ALL Victoria residents.