I'm even more confused...why is an AP sports writer authoring this article on 1/6/09?

This whole thing has been confusing from the start, but maybe I've got some of it figured out. The accused were told that Ratcliff had done his crime and Tyler didn't let them in on the plan, so they thought he was covering up and protecting Ratcliff. Tyler found out that they thought he was part of a coverup and got upset that they would impune his character, thus beginning this big ol mess.

Wish we could know exactly what was said to the grand jury and what's on that tape. Is it legal to record someone who isn't aware of it here in Texas? did Tyler get a warrant?

Ratcliff may be a wonderful person.
He is also a criminal.
He has admitted that he participated in criminal activity.
He committed criminal acts while he was sheriff of this county.
Same sex sodomy was a crime in the state of Texas until 2003.
He pled guilty to perjury. How did he commit perjury? He lied to the grand jury when he said he did not have sex with the young man in question

BeenHereAWhile....Actually I have served on a Grand Jury. And we did not indict several of the cases presented to us. That argument that Grand Juries Rubber stamp what the D.A. presents is a crock of crap. If anything most of us on the jury were very suspicious of the D.A., asked a lot of questions and took our responsibilities seriously.

And I still believe Mike Ratcliff is a good guy and know for a fact that you and most of the casual newspaper readers don't have any idea what went on in that whole very regretable episode.

I do believe that Steve Tyler is trying to do what we are paying him to do and after trying to work with LE finally was fed up and had to do something. But there are those of you who would rather see the criminals win because their cases are thrown out of court.

I am supposed to be happy because the City Council is only paying for the defense of Ure and other city employees? They are the ones who chose to lie to the Grand Jury...why should my tax dollars pay for that and what other city would have chosen to pay for their defense.

I of course know nothing about the case you mention....but just might the fault be with the evidence available to use to prosecute rather than the guilt of the person. We all know incidents where the guilty get off free because the evidence was not available or gathered by less than the sometimes more than finite rules of law. Doesn't seem fair but it does happen.....just like it happens that innocent people sometime get ruined because they have dared to buck powerful and wealthy people....but I guess you have never seen anything like that happen.

MIKEY....In my experience doctors hate lawyers more than anyone else, as well they should.

From the TX Code of Criminal Procedure, Chapter 2: General Duties of Officers, Art. 2.01 (the very FIRST statute relating to the duties of elected TX officials):

"...It shall be the primary duty of all prosecuting attorneys, including any special prosecutors, not to convict, but to see that justice is done. They shall not suppress facts or secrete witnesses capable of establishing the innocence of the accused."

Seemingly every piece of evidence regarding the alleged crimes of these city officials has had to be wrested, practically forcibly, from Tyler’s possession. Every scrap of paper, every recording (including those which may have been illegally made), every statement has required a motion by the defense and a resulting hearing and decision by the court and STILL much of it has not been relinquished to those accused of being criminals. In our system of justice it is a fundamental, constitutional right of the accused to confront the witnesses and evidence against you. It is not our justice system that is at fault here save for the fact that Stephen B. Tyler (and his monstrous ego) is a part of it.

This recent hearing should come as no surprise to anyone who’s been following this case. Defense requests discovery; Tyler argues why he shouldn’t have to give the accused access to that which they legally have a right; judge needs more case law from both sides to make a decision. The whole thing is delayed another month or two while attorneys rack up more fees (that we’re paying), Tyler continues focusing his efforts on revenge rather than justice while more pressing cases are put on the back burner or fall through the cracks while the victims, counselors, LE and practically everyone else involved in or with violent crime in our county are brow beaten into submission by a DA more intent on delaying this mess until his term is up than protecting the residents. This has pretty much been the modus operandi of this cast since the Ratcliff fiasco began.

Tyler refused in this last hearing to relinquish his witness list to the defense until seven days prior to the trial date – assuming one every gets set that has even the slightest chance to be met. I’ve heard (unofficially) that there may be as many as 200 witnesses on that list. (WHY?!? The charge is perjury to the Grand Jury. There are only 12 jurors, 2 alternates, the accused, the judge, and the court reporter (in this case a machine) that would have been privy to any false statements. That’s, at best, fifteen people. The judge can’t testify, the accused is a given, and we’re down to thirteen but Tyler can dig us one hundred and eighty seven more possible witness candidates?? And he expects the defense to interview, investigate and prepare an answer to the testimony of 200 people in seven days.

Yeah, I can see where our DA is more interested in justice than in saving face, saving his job and saving his paycheck which you and I are also paying. Give me a break.

The man is a joke and a disgrace to both Victoria and the legal profession

Ernie

Southtexas,
You said "I'm talking about the money our great City Council voted to spend to defend these guys."
Clearly you haven't been paying attention (as usual)- as the Advocate has reported,  the City is paying for the defence of Buentello and Ure (City employees), but NOT for David Smith - not in the past,not now and not in the future. His lawyer's fees are coming out of Smith's own pocket.
As for your negative comments about lawyers in general, they also fit your hero Tyler. 

southtexas, you clearly have never been on a Grand Jury nor been called to testify for one. It's an interesting thing when all you hear is one side - the DA's side. And I bet he can twist it any way he wants.

And like I said, southtexas, your opinion is subject to scrutiny since you thought that Michael Ratcliff was a good guy too!! I don't think I'll ever get over your screeching about how he was so innocent and such a great guy. Goodness me, that was great entertainment.

jbar24, the same can be said about our local DA Stephen Tyler. If only the people knew half of the truth about him. I'm still waiting on his office to take the rape case of my neighbor's little girl.

Actually car salesman& politicians (which could be a lawyer) were hated more and HMO managers were even with lawyers according to the Washington Post poll.

Not talking about republicans because some of them are lawyers, but a right- winger is a member of the far right in any party…In my lifetime, I found that divorced men hated lawyers more than anyone; didn’t matter if they were democrat, republican or right or left.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thef...

And Mikey....for pete's sake..only right wingers are "wired" to dislike attorneys.....Why pray tell are the least respected of all professions....guess that is all us damn Republicans.

rg...I'm talking about the money our great City Council voted to spend to defend these guys. Everyone is entitled to a defense; and most certainly there are good and honorable attorneys however they are few and far between. I happen to think that Mr. Tyler is one of the good guys. Ure has had multiple problems in the past. Google the guy and read for yourself. Why he was hired with that history amazes me.

*sigh* its just a pain in the arse tht i have to have 4 yrs of college in order to get in 2 law school.

I could be a taxpayer that is not a right-winger, hardwired to hate lawyers...Friviouus lawsuits are bad but lawsuits are necessary for the injured party to get his day in civil court....Being an attorney is still an honorable profession IMO.....One sided exaggerations are not the cause of higher prices....Lawyer envy?

the coffee thing may have over the top, it was still funny as hell though. oj, regardless if he killed his wife or not, was still entitled to a lawyer who could defend him and a very good one i might add. and ur reference to tax dollars, are u refering to the money thats being paid to these attorneys or public defenders? if its these attorneys then i have no further comment at this time, if its public defenders, then i stand by the ideal that every1 is entitled to a defense.

BEENHEREAWHILE....We know these guys lied because the Grand Jury they lied to was the 1st grand jury who indicted them. You can't get much more certain than that.
And these guys are fighting it because it is our tax dollars that are paying for their defense. 
RG20....These are also the same attorneys that cause everything we do and buy to be twice as expensive because America is so law suit happy....they are the ones that sue McDonalds when you are clumsy and drop a cup of hot coffee in your own lap....they are the attorneys that got O.J. off when everyone and their dog knew he killed his wife. It is ridiculous that my tax dollars are paying these yahoos...and I'm mad as hell about it. And if the rest of you taxpayers aren't mad then you must have money to burn.

jbar, i dont think your reading it closely enough, im defending the lawyers, not the officials.

ok first walktheshoes, is tht blonde comment suppose to offend me somehow? what does having blonde hair have to do with practicing law? ill let you sit on tht one while i go on. second southtexas, yes in a way you are right. lawyers will try every trick they know and the ones in the book as well in order to insure that the rights of their clients are being protected. it can get a little dirty. however, it is these antics and stunts which will get you a not guilty verdict, it is these antics which will ensure you get the money YOU FEEL that you are entitled too. these are the antics that keep corporate america honest and will keep you out of prison when you have been charged with a crime tht you know you didnt commit but are being charged for anyway because the da needs to point a fingure at someone. its a dirty business, but its what will always be there when you need it. and i myself hope to be apart of it someday.

southtexasguy, you assume that these men lied because Mr. Tyler said they did. I've seen Mr. Tyler make several statements to the media that was false (in an interview with KAVU ages ago). So I don't entirely trust this indictment.
I still think it's a vendetta against the City of Victoria because Mr. Tyler couldn't run the show. Or maybe he's holding grudges from way back when he was an Assistant DA. Either way, it's just ashamed Mr. Tyler has no common sense or is concerned about the best interest of Victoria.
If only Mr. Tyler worked this hard for my neighbor's daughter who was raped. Or for the other victims I've read about on here.
southtexasguy, did you ever find another job or at least an attorney to represent you? Just curious. You sort of had a bad deal going and I hope you were able to find help.

It's Tyler's fault that these men (two of them licensed peace officers sworn to uphold the law, the other an attorney licensed to practice law) allegedly committed perjury before a grand jury???? How is that his fault? These are not some "ordinary" citizens, unaccustomed to being questioned by lawyers. Ure and Buentello appeared before grand juries throughout their careers, and Smith is a lawyer himself. IF they lied...it's THEIR FAULT...not Tyler's. They knew it was a lie...they thought they could get away with it.  And in doing so they made a mockery out of the judicial system they represent.
I think Mr. Tyler DOES have a solid case against these men, and their attorneys know it. 

3PO, I have to take the other side respectfully. I have to wonder why if the Grand Jury testimony is recorded, why are the 3 Officials fighting it? Maybe Mr. Tyler just doesn't have what he thought he had.

I still say this entire mess is Mr. Tyler's fault because he hired Ratcliff (the Perv) to begin with despite all the warnings. I find it incredibly hard to believe Tyler didn't know about Ratcliff's investigation beforehand when he and Schlinger are such good buddies.

3PO, you want to worry about how much the City is spending? Please attend at least one City Council meeting this year - that will knock your socks off. This is small beans compared to some of the things they spend OUR money on.

Also, SouthTexas, your opinion is highly suspect to me. Weren't you the person who kept screaming that Ratcliff was innocent? Yep, you were.

I think you have hit the nail right on the head...ThirdPartyObserver

This entire situation would be comical if it were not so sad. We the taxpayers in the State of Texas, the county and city of Victoria are paying for all sides of this circus. I know I am not an educated attorney but common sense tells me that if the grand jury testimony is recorded, which it is, it is very easy to determine if these people lied. Why should these three trials take over six months to even come to trial (assuming they do)? My guess is because the defendents each have their share of $250K to spend on playing the games the defense attorneys are playing. As the mayor is out of the game each of the other city employees now has almost $85K of taxpayer money to continue to play games with. I wonder if the outcome would not be much quicker if they were spending their own money on these defense tactics? We the taxpayers loose, no matter what the outcome. I can only imagine how long it will take to select a jury, again assuming this ever goes to trial, as the entire situation has been tried in the media for months now. Our "new" police chief sure has a knack for getting his picture in the paper and on the TV news. I hope he is spending as much time fighting crime as he is promoting himself to the public. Man, what a waste of our hard earned tax dollars.

Gee Southtexas, since the illustrious Mr. Tyler is also an attorney, is he counted amoung your classification as "suckers, leeches, maggots and nightcrawlers"? You realize of course he IS also capable of posturing, strutting, and everything else --- The defense attorney's are doing what our tax dollars are paying them to do and Mr. Tyler is doing the job the State of Texas is paying him to do.... There's no need to continue this b.s. --- you are of the same ilk as others you have criticized for being against Mr. Tyler....

rg/ good thing ur not a blonde... good laugh.......thank u.....southtexas

Our city tax dollars at work for us. Thank you to all the drunken sailors.

RG....did you really read the article. The lawyers are strutting and posing and doing their usual disgusting BS. I realize everyone deserves a defense, but let's face it, even attorneys admit that attorneys are unbelievably manipulative, skirt around the truth and use every dirty trick in the book....it is the nature of the profession but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
In surveys attorneys are the LEAST respected of all professions....there's a reason for that. 
"Officers of the court"....my behind!

south texas, that remark you made about our officers of the court was highly offensive and un called for. you wanna lash out at the city officials, fine, but dont blame the men defending them. they have a job to do just like anyone else, and you never know, you yourself may need a lawyer to protect your rights one day.

*sigh* why is this being prolonged?? this thing needs to settle so that way the advocate can stop reporting this rubbish. ratcliff is shamed, the "victim" is going on with his life, the sun still shines, the grass is still green, and wheels on the bus still go 'round and 'round, thats all that should matter.

Hahahahahahahahaha.... Good one! Bwhahahahahahaha...

Q: Why is going to a meeting of the Bar Association like going into a bait shop?
A: Because of the abundance of suckers, leeches, maggots and nightcrawlers