Back at ya Willie

Waste of tax payers money on this one folks. Plain and simple. More intel needed VPD...

Proveallthings: YOU ARE A MORON!!!

rainbowrunner310, Hey I'm ALL for backing the badge. But I MUST say,,, that if you dont think that you could handle what these Citz.On.PAT. do daily,,thats like saying that you could'nt handle sitting in a cubical and answering phonecalls all day. Now Come on,,,in all Honesty as God as your witness,,,,do you Really think these COPS/LAW in our area,go beyond the call of duty to do their job?....I'll fill ya in,,,,They Don't.....I know a few on the force,,and have had many friends on the force in the past..Its kind of a laid back job in all reality,,at least in this area. How many law officers have U seen thats Overweight?..So you say these guys are out running,,and going home so tired and stressed to the point to being an insomniac,,Come On now. And Hey Willie,,I'm not going by no TV show.LOL. I watched Our law in action not long ago,,,,HIGH Speed chase!,,,I counted over 19 cars/trucks,,chasing a small 4 cylinder car...I'm talking ,,these undercover cars,,marked cars,,and trucks were going so fast that if a kid would have just so happened to be in the street retrieving their ball,,They'd be Dead!...Ok,,here I was seeing action taking place right before my eyes,,,,,,,there they all went cruising at speeds,lets say about 70 miles an hour,,on a farm road,,,houses all up and down the street. I was freakin,,,I thought a murderer was on the loose,,,but within about 5 minutes,,here they all came back again,,,chasing this little Bitti car....Alright!,,,,they got him! Got to see it CLOSE UP,,,,,the lil car pulled over,,,Hell I thought all the damn law cars were going do go into a dominoe effect crash down..Hey but they got the guy. Found out,,,,they found a script of meds in his car that did'nt have his name on it..Our Law In Action.*and I laugh*......The law in this town is a freakin Joke. If you gotta problem and need their help,,ya know what their going to tell ya,,,,,?" Sorry we can't help you,,our hands are tighted",,,Give Me A Freakin Break! Thats one reason I'm for dwi checkpoints,,,Damn gotta give them boys/girls something to do,,besides cruising the town talking on their cellphones. Oh yeah,,,I must add,,I've seen a few officers that may just need to seek rehab for meth use,,,Yep.....Seen a few that you could tell that either, they had Too many cups of Strong A** coffee,,or they dipped into the ol evidence bag,,from a meth lab bust. I Kid U Not. Yep around these parts,,its like RENO 911......Let the Truth be known..........As sad as it may be

Come on People!! Do a "ride along" with a police officer and see just what they have to face on a daily basis. I have and let me tell you, I don't think I could do what they do. Take the Civilian Police Academy, ride a shift or two, you'll see what I am talking about. You have to definitely have nerves of steel. I admire those who choose to put on that uniform and go up against some of our so called "good" citizens. Take a stand, back the badge and help Victoria upstanding citizens take back our streets and report crime. Yes gangs are bad here, so are drug pushers. I for one am backing the badge.

Legend,

There was two neighbors, who told two different stories

Hey sicky -
Quit making personal slams at me and get off the lawn!

Good points Willie,

Myself?, I can't blame the VPD for taking precautions in a potential dangerous situation.

They did the right thing.I wonder about the neighbor quoted in the article tho, I would have took there advice and left.

VCC you come across as a grumpy old man in sansobelt slacks sitting around every morning drinking your coffee with your other croanies. Reading your posts, you have nothing better to do then tell the police how to do their job. IF you can do better, go to V.C. and join the police academy. Then after a few months, or even weeks on the job, tell me how "easy" it is. Quit watching your cop shows and wake up to reality that this isn't a tv show. Police have some of the most strict policies you can imagine and as was said earlier have to err on the side of caution for themselves and even your whiny self. If I sound like a cop, well I was for 27 years. It's not all about driving fast and throwing people into jail. There is a complete other side to police work.

I think the VPD is destroying their own reputation and really need no one's help.

Soem of you poster ought to apply to be TV writers with your vivid imaginations and drawn out stories. With thoughts like that in your head, can you actually sleep at night?

Willie - good job describing some of the thought processes. You are much more patient than I am. The complainers playing LEO evaluator behind a computer on Friday afternoon or Saturday morning with a partially accurate news story, and passionately defending their side is......well pretty darn funny.

Wow there are some naive posters in here. It is funny how quick people criticize police work when their own extent of knowledge comes from a few bad TV programs. What a joke.

Why didn't they just go knock on the door?
Why did it take two hours?
Where was the chief?
Who was this guy Al Capone?
Why waste all the tax payer dollars?

The facts are this piece of crap is dangerous! He has a history of deadly violence and wont be taken alive. This tid-bit of info might bring up additional questions.

What if there are other bad guys inside?
What if there are kids inside?
What if there are hostages inside?
What kind of weapons could he posses?
Are there any explosives?
Where are the neighbors and are they safe?
Are other agencies ready to assist?
Is the VCSO ready to take custody of one or more high priority?
Do we need phone techs to tap the phone to attempt contact with anyone inside?
Do we need the fire dept in case this guy decides to burn it Waco style?
Where should EMS be standing by?
Which ER will be handling the injured if there should be any and are they ready to receive?
Where should the command post be located?
Where should the media set up?
Who is going to talk to them and what info should be disclosed?

There are more unanswered questions or possibilities that could be addressed but I think we get the point. Yes the command post was there. Should they have used chalk on the pavement to draw out their tactical plan and positions?

Think worst possible outcome on something like this. What if this guy comes out after setting the trailer a blaze with a high powered fully automatic rifle shooting at anybody that moves. What if he hits 3 or 4 cops or civilians? What if managed to get into someone else's home?

Its a good thing all the above questions where discussed and the worst thing possible didn't happen. Or....we could complain that 3 or 4 detectives should have thought all of this through instantly and just gone and knocked on the door.

Some people here would complain if they were hung with old rope.

Okay, y'all got me. I was being sarcastic. I will waive the point that there are many facts not known on this issue. But honestly, a two hour almost all force stake out on an empty house? The perp probably walked up to a perimeter officer and asked what was going on and was told to leave the area, "Nothing to see here, move along!"

N45: Do you recall that Mr. Koresh had been picked up by a single sheriff on other ocassions prior to the "Raid". Your memory is selective at best.

Besides, there was NOBODY HOME for TWO hours in this case. How does is that similiar to the Victoria situation?

JohnQ it would have been pretty pointless to arrest him on those charges when lazy ol Tyler never would have picked up the case to start with. He probably applauded him for making threats to start with.

Why wasn't he arrested from the get go for making a terroristc threat towards the police. Seems like that would have saved us a lot of money and protected the citizens of Victoria, instead he makes a threat like that and goes out into society. Real smart VPD

How freakin' typical of the VPD. Waste all those tax dollars on your little operation. Any excuse to gear up and roll out, for one guy. Next time use some of my taxed money, go buy some crack, offer it to a crackhead for info on whoever it is your looking for, then go get him. Did you even have any intel, do you know what intel is, or are yall operating from the "G.W. Bush Handbook For Getting Things Done Despite Evidence or Just Cause". So quit calling it a standoff, all you pathetic forms of media in Victoria, for that, you need two opposing forces, and the only so called force present was Vpd. How sad, I hope no other Towns were watching our news, Oh wait I dont even watch our news.

Just trying to get a point across.
In New York (for example) seeing cars parked all along a block isn't uncommon.
On my street (at least) I notice strange vehicles. And a car with somebody inside it would be REAL suspicious

But if we are believe your scenario, the cops would still be in a stand off with an empty house. Wouldn't make much sense either.

lol. I can just picture them eating donuts for two hours before finally getting bored, brushing off the crumbs, and figuring out that nobody was home.

Wow, calm down Bobby! Hit a nerve? So what are you saying, that the local police can use storm trooper tactics because they cannot get good intelligence information?

Life is NOT a TV Show. This isn't New York, or Miami, or anywhere else they film TV shows. This IS Victoria. The criminals know most all of the local law enforcement officials. They also know the "undercover" cars.
FURTHERMORE - THIS incident didn't happen on an average city street. It's real hard to conduct "undercover" surveillance on a dead end street. Especially where this happened.

John - Never claimed to have a clue on this, just common sense! Cheers

victoriaconcernedcitizen.....

Your last comment whether sarcastic or not shows that you as well as many other people have no clue to the exact details of what really happened. Find out who the guy was, do some research on him and then maybe you will have a little better understanding of what happened.

Well said magnum!

Mag
That looks like a shot at me, so let me respond in kind. All I'm saying is that this incident appeared to be a bit much, I mean who were they going after, Al Capone? So everyone better pay their library fines or you might find out that the SWAT team paid your house a visit while you were at the store.

What really sucks is listening to you people complain about people who put their lives on the line day in and day out. I wouldn't be surprised if someone on this forum called in a bogus tip just so you could watch them come up with nothing and give you ammunition to complain. KNOCK IT OFF. I read one comment that they have had problems in the past with this individual, they are known for violence with police. The person who commented on having a rating system for defining when SWAT is called is absolutely CORRECT. All of these things and even more are taken into account. The point is they are breaking their backs to help get the criminal element in our society to jail where they belong. If they err on the side of officer (and/or citizen) safety and come up empty handed you complain about wasting tax dollars. If you found they were conducting surveillance on someone you'd complain that they were wasting your tax money too. The complainers I'm reading in here are probably the kind that if they were given 10 million dollars TAX FREE you'd complain because they gave it to you in $100 bills instead of $50's. There may be some problems in the department here but, I've yet to see (or work for) a department that didn't have room for improvement. If you don't like the way they work consider one thing. What would you think if they weren't there at all.

Police work is and has always been highly criticized. Most departments have what is called a "threat assessment" in which the situation and the suspect involved is evaluated. If the combination of the 2 equal a certain number or above, then a certain protocol has to be performed. Most likely, we do not know "everything" about this situation. It seems everyone is quick to tell the police how to do their job. I wouldn't like a oblivious outsider coming to my work telling me how to do my job. Would you?

Looks like more blunder on the part of the VPD, like in the trial going on right now. Just how many extra officers were called in, at taxpayer funds, to storm two houses not containing the wanted people....and especially when one of the houses was vacant? Isn't there some kind of preliminary watching of places to make sure someone is there? I guess I've just watched too many cop shows on TV.

sethnbrensmom ,

He already knew that Law Enforcement was after him before this incident....I guess he isnt looking forward to being picked up by ICE serving a little time then being shipped back to the wonderful Mexico.

nothingsuprisesme,

Rather than stepping up about what platoon it is why don't you step up and say who you are. You sound like an ex VPD employee who is currenty employed at the DA's office, but then again I could be wrong. Surely you aren't an employee at VPD but I guess you never know.

As far as the January 1st incident, the platoon you are talking about RECOVERED THE SUSPECT VEHICLE at a street just North of where the shooting took place. That platoon didn't decide to call out SWAT and make a huge scene, it was a decision made by someone out of the platoon after being provided with all the details. And regardless of who made the decision it was the right decision.

I guess the saying is true the most PRODUCTIVE in the department are always the most criticized.

By the way the paper doesn't even come close to covering exactly what went on, so assume all you want.

N45BA: I agree that it is a tough job and a stressful situation. I also agree that the call for all the manpower was not made by the patrol officers or the SWAT team.

My point is that 30 armed officers and a Mobile Command Center is overkill for serving a warrant on one man, armed or not.

Perhaps a little covert surveillance, a stakeout, would have been more in order. Other departments in other cities also serve warrants on armed individuals without involving half the department.

Someone high up went way overboard on this one. What if there are five guys, possibly armed, in a trailer house? Do we ask Houston and San Antonio for back-up?

I think four patient, competent detectives could have done this job and not alerted this guy to his "wanted" status.

Something that this article doesnt say and what most people do not know.....There are 4 patrol shifts. The shift that stirred this rucous up is the SAME shift that stirred up the last one as well. Lets not blame all the officers for the stupidity of one shift, but start asking questions towards the shift involved. Is it poor supervision or under trained cops? Detectives, SWAT, and other divisions within the police dept. were called away from their normal duties to help this bumbling patrol shift. I made a comment about this to a officer I saw yesterday and he rolled his eyes. You could see the disgust. Someone DOES need to step in and review this shifts shotty work. Finally, if I was a veteran officer called away from my normal duties, I would be a little p.o. about getting called out to this waste of resources.

Onslow, Please do not insult Ned Flanders like that!!!!!LOL

gmguy - I guess you could, but then you get that possible bullet thingy coming through an aluminum trailer door.

What is up with this?

"Two hours later when they broke down the door and searched the trailer, officers found no one home."

Haven't they ever heard of knocking?

And, now thanks to the media, the guy knows that they are looking to serve him. I am sure that he will just "go home" and wait for them. Shouldn't this be a secret until he was captured?

Actually, the first priority in a preceived or actual stand off situation is civilian and officer safety. The John Wayne syndrome will get someone killed or wounded. Descretion is the better part of valor, and waiting has nothing to do with cowardice.

Remember this was a warrant to be served, not a hostage situation. The citizens of Victoria want crime to be adressed and dealt with accordingly. Not every lead will lead to an arrest, but every possibility needs to be explored. A key variable in all this is the citizen. When the people of Victoria have had a belly full of gang violence and drug/human trafficing, and begin turning in tips and leads and not looking the other way - the success rate will improve. Just my 2 cents.

It is things like this that prove that our local departments, to include Port Lavaca act on Hunches and not an actual articulable fact, someone is going to get hurt soon if they are not more careful, to our local Chiefs, wisen up!!!!!!!!!!

lol. Huggy bear.

How about watching the place for a while, before commiting to action. You know, a stake out. I quess VPD's version of Huggy Bear was not as trustworthy as what Starsky and the Hutch had!

Maybe the guy has a well hidden hiding place in the home. Or someone told him the police was looking for him, before they got there, and he got out.
The police officers are trying to do their jobs the best they know how to do.
So maybe they did mess up a few times. We all do, no one is perfect. At least they are trying to do something about it. And most of the public would just turn away, and pretend they didn't see anything.
So at least someone is doing something.
And I pray they catch all the jerks they are looking for. Will make it a better life for our children, and us.

Just a clarification. I do not mean to imply that the officers are cowards, clowns, or incompetent. I reserve those adjectives for their leadership!

You are correct Nettie, the officers are just executing command orders. However, the overreaction of command sends an unfavorable image of VPD to anyone learning of this story.

I agree, this is at most, laughable. Doesn't the city keep a CI list, and use it for humint (human intelligence)? I really feel bad for the officers, as they are only following the lead and executing tasks assigned. There should be no shame on their part.

Okay, the guy made ominous statements alluding to the fact that he would resist capture, BUT come on!

Dog the Bounty Hunter catches these guys with his kids and a can of mace. We send 15 patrol officers, a command unit, and the SWAT team. What? I guess the National Guard couldn't mobilize in time.

The VPD is rapidly becoming a joke and that may be due in part to the fact that our illustrious city leaders hired Ned Flanders as Police Chief.

Where is our illustrious police chief in all of this??

I would like to know what Ure thinks about this screw-up, and about the shortcoming of police investigative work that are being detailed in the intoxication manslaughter trial going on.

I'm sorry, but a two hour stand off with an empty house is nothing short of embarassment. Makes our local PD look like a bunch of cowards and buffoons.

The gangs are probably laughing their tails off...

No one in the house. Are tax payers stuck with the cost of the door being bashed in? The door was innocent.

It just so happens that our gang problem right now is VERY bad. The police department is cracking down on gang activity and trying to serve some of their high priority arrest warrants. If they have the man power to do this, then so be it. Victoria criminals need to know that we're not gonna take their crap anymore.

I think some may perceive what went on to have been a bit much. I think it sends a message to the community that law enforcement is out to get the bad guys.

If there were 15 officers in my neighborhood, the LAST thing I would feel is fear.

This subject caused law enforcement fear due to past dealings with him and knowing what he was capable of. They took extra precautions to ensure that the lives of those around the trailor and the officers themselves were safe.

But yes, complain all you want. Because god knows, if the PD were doing nothing about the gang problem in Victoria, you would also be complaining about that.

I concur.... I think someone said 3 words describe them...
Incompetent Incompetent Incompetent... so true..

What is wrong with our police department. All these raids lately and nothing found. It really makes Victoria look bad. Yes it is best to be safe not sorry but to over react twice within a month looks really bad.