a typical MattOcker post. speak first. think about it later.

Never mind. Wrong thread. Sorry Advocate.

Why was my comment deleted? Advocate staff?

Whoa BIGJ,

Let's not get nasty, brother. After getting all worked up about Matt's insulting behavior, you rip me for merely citing the very article under which we're all commenting, which I would have done regardless of the source of the quote. Do my comments stray too far from the norm for your liking? Please elaborate on where I went wrong, point for point.

Matt Ocker's comment sums up the source of our problem -- The System:
"The only way government can operate is through power and force," said Matt Ocker with the Victoria Campaign for Liberty, "In order to gain that power it must take it from the citizens. Today we're giving it away in chunks."

... and you are an accomplice!

Government gains and holds its power much like the mafia, through the Problem-Reaction-Solution dynamic. The mafia creates a threatening environment and sells protection from it. The govt creates problems like inflation & poverty, the public cries out for help, and the govt presents solutions that require power grabs. They give unfair protection to corporations, which creates destructive monopolies, and then they blame capitalism to push their Marxist ideals. We haven't had true free markets in 90+ years, since the chartering of the manipulative Federal Reserve. We live in a fascist state which is being fostered by BOTH PARTIES, and you're their cheerleaders.

My solution: Shed your party alliances & promote individual liberties in every aspect of society. They have you "thinking" like meat-headed sports fans rather than free-spirited, rebellious Americans. They are playing us off of each other when they're the real threat.

We're celebrating the anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, and all you guys can do is argue within the tiny confines the over-reaching state has designed for you. Sad irony! Let's see if you can operate outside of their false left-right paradigm.

Historically, the tenets of collectivism lead to misery and iron-fisted tyranny. If we keep on this course, our children will wake up in a prison without bars.

SNAP OUT OF IT!!!

Mike,

I apologize for interrupting your dinner yesterday, and do so again if I am interrupting your lunch today.

Your first paragraph is indeed correct, it seems I confused some similar threads and political posters. Again I apologize.

We all make mistakes, as in your interpretation that my SS remark meant that I was speaking against the very idea of SS.

My comment that you had been wrong lately, in no way was meant to reflect on your factual research, but more in the way you presented it compared to some of your earlier blogs and posts.

As far as my comment on the blotter thread, I did explain what I meant. Unfortunately I did not get to read but a small portion of the poster mentioned s reply before all posts where removed.

Again, my apologizes...

Have a good holiday weekend and stay safe.

Legion357
You are doing a lot more than paraphrasing..Look it up, all I posted was “Finally” in reference to the 6 months or more delay…I have posted that 60 votes do not mean anything because the Dems are not a monolithic group. They have 13 conservative Dems and about 9 come from states Bush carried in 2004 and about 4 or 5 from states that McCain carried…I do my home work…I know better.

Now, I was minding my own business eating at a restaurant when I received two e-mails on my Blackberry telling me that I was being discussed in the forum….I decided to knip it in the bud.

You made a remark about me not knowing my facts about the higher minimum wage in Chicago; you said I have been wrong lately..I corrected you and you told me to settle down.
I noticed you made remark that was out of line (IMO) about another poster in the Blotter section and another poster that I don’t have to mention…That’s making it personal and is equivalent to “trying to burn out my candle to make yours shine brighter.”
I do not make it a habit not to seek out other posters to randomly mock…My avatar is easy to ignore…I am pretty easy going but I am not a shrinking violet.

I don’t ever expect “I’m wrong” and I realize that I am game for any one that has a different opinion but keep it factual.

tafoer, good research but it cannot take the place of someone who kept up for two years.:-)…See after the primaries Obama adapted Hillary’s plan..I remember all 20+ debates the Democrats had and the presidential debates..

During the primaries, Sen. Clinton said she would mandate that all individuals have health insurance, but didn't explain how she would implement that provision. Sen. Obama seized on the enforcement issue in their series of debates and from the stump.
"Are you going to fine them? Are you going to garnish their wages?" Sen. Obama said in a January debate. "You know, those are questions that Sen. Clinton has not answered with respect to her plan."
Now Sen. McCain is taking the same tack in demanding that Sen. Obama detail his plans.
"Under the plan he's proposed, [Sen. Obama] will fine employers who do not offer health insurance," Sen. McCain said Saturday in Davenport, Iowa. "What he doesn't say, and what nobody has asked, is how big his fine will be."
He made the point again at Wednesday's presidential debate. "Senator Obama, I'd …still like to know what that fine's going to be."
Obama officials say the campaign has no plans to answer that question before Election Day on Nov. 4. Neera Tanden, a top Obama policy adviser, said the fine is intended to discourage employers from dropping coverage, not to raise significant revenue.
Large employers spent, on average, 15.6% of payroll toward the total cost of the health benefits, according to Mercer's National Survey of Employer-Sponsored Health Plans.

In a violent collison, I'm sure being hit by my body is the last thing anyone will be worried about. Please don't fret, the only time I am ever without a seat belt is when I am alone as my husband is a bigger nag than I could ever hope to be. I also now have the freedom to drive sans seatbelt without the annoying protests from my car!!! I do appreciate the little things in life.

vbb: Your statement about seatbelts is correct as long as you are the only one in the vehicle. Otherwise, in a violent collision your body can become a human missile as it is thrown around the car and into other occupants.

Yup VBB,

One more little comment to Mike....

Yes the current bill is a proposal, however, when Franken was declared the winner in MN earlier this week, you posted (and I am paraphrasing) "yes finally, now the democrats have a super majority"

In other words, they can get anything they want, they are now bulletproof.

Exactly my point...it is nobodies business if I choose not to wear a seat belt, it hurts nobody but me.

lol, sprigs,
I can hear it now, "Just the fern leaves and maybe one baby breath, cut the carnations and lilies"

Thanks Taofer, I thought it was Hilary.....thanks for proving I'm not completely stupid.

The seat belt laws do not protect anyone but yourself, IMO, they where mainly instituted as another revenue stream for LE, but of course they benefit LIFE insurance policy issuers and do not do much for auto insurance issuers, they rather you die in a crash than to have to pay out on pip ect.

Seriously, there is an ad on the side of this thread when you go to comment that says " Be honest, did you ever spend your youth dreaming of owning a Pinto".....seriously?!? I thought the Pinto was gone? And honestly, no, I never dreamed of owning a car that I would die a fiery death in if I were unfortunate enough to be hit from behind & if I did & acted upon it, I would have already died a few fiery deaths.

This from Forbes, one of the five in the article.

During the campaign, Obama insisted that he would not resort to an individual mandate to achieve universal coverage. In fact, he repeatedly ripped Hillary Clinton's plan for proposing one. "To force people to buy coverage," he insisted, "you've got to have a very harsh penalty." What will this penalty be, he demanded? "Are you going to garnish their wages?" he asked Hillary in one debate.

Yet now, Obama is behaving as if he said never a hostile word about the mandate. Earlier this month, in a letter to Sens. Max Baucus, D-Mont., and Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., he blithely declared that he was all for "making every American responsible for having health insurance coverage, and making employers share in the cost."

But just like Hillary, he is refusing to say precisely what he will do to those who want to forgo insurance. There is a name for such a health care approach: It is called TonySopranoCare.

It'll buy a few sprigs, hope you don't have your heart set on a wreath!

LOL, I never said anything about not having Social Security, I said, (since my children are all adults now), if I died, SS would not have to pay out any benefits I would have received in err... *figure my full retirement age*, 16 years, 8 months and 17 days.

( Besides the little piddling $255 death benefit, which might buy some flowers and that's about it.)

I also don't agree with mandatory seat belt laws either. Liability insurance on cars is a whole other thing since it is a protection for others as well. My option to pay as I go affects no one else but me.

The government mandating health insurance is akin to the government mandating diet restrictions (oops they are working on that), how we manage our money (they are taking care of that also via taxing everything), the morals we instill in our children (oh wait they undo all that in public schools), what kind of cars we drive (again they are fixing that). I guess about the only thing this administration is not trying to governmentally mandate is who we sleep with.

I thought Obama was against fining people & Hilary was the one spouting that nonsense about insurance police knocking on doors assessing & collecting fines.

Cutting any deductions is also a tax increase, IMO.

Funny how the insurance companies aren't behind Obamas plan anymore & the AMA isn't either. If you think for 1 second health care costs are going to go down because of this, you are mistaken. Health care has gotten to what it is because of insurance companies, lawsuits & people living longer.

Wiretapping was started under Clinton & expanded by Bush. Do I like it, no. This mandating stuff is more insiduous as we can't avoid it. We will soon be nannied to death.

BTW Legion
That old not having Social Security has been around for 40 years that I know of...The day any WH says no more Social Security;we would see millions of protesters in walkers,canes etc camped outside..It will be there when you retire..I guarantee...:-)

You have a good July 4th and I promise to leave all the conservatives alone until about 9:00 AM Monday..:-)

What were the organizers thinking?

In this heat I am surprised that 200 showed up; this event did not occur in an air-conditioned building. Holding an out door event in Texas during this heat would be like holding a similar outdoor event during a blizzard in North Dakota during December.

It was also a workday; most tax paying Americans people still have to work.

Actually Legion357; it's none of the above..It is just a proposal.
Day late-dollor short..:-)

toefer
I forgot, Obama campaigned on that penalty(out front) and 64 million agreed.

You can call a just about anything a "tax" if you are bound and determined to call Obama a liar...You were not a supporter ,so that lie won't make a differance ,you will eventually find one..For me,just as long as it is not a lie to get us into a war of choice.

Well, hmmm...

If I don't want to pay for auto insurance or the fee to renew my license, I have a option...............quit driving, simple enough.

If I don't want to pay for health insurance, I have a option..........to pay a fine for not buying it, which is no option at all, I'd still be paying for it, like it or not.

What to do? Hmmm, guess I could just die, that would make the government happy to, I'd never collect anything from Social Security.

Oh, please VBB

We have mandatory car insurance, licence, but again what is your plan besides griping about everything that is being PROPOSED?...”I’ve got mine.”..Status quo.;-)

[Patriot Act] versus a fine for not having health care insurance…No complaints from the conservatives on that freedom.

[Domestic spying]..Conservatives said “I’ve got nothing to hide” now when it comes to being an obstructionist on health care; it’s all about freedom.

Now I can separate the “I’ve got mine” from “they are taking away my freedoms.”

I also understand that every coin has two sides….72% wants a public option and over 60% understand and approve an added tax to pay for it..e.g. The Obama administration is proposing cutting the charitable deduction form 35% -28% to help pay for health care the conservatives went ape…Really, that 7% is worth throwing a fit over.

You are aware that health insurance will continue going up limiting your take home pay.

Anyway time to call it a day;same old arguments ;same stale answers..:-)

You have a good week end and glorious 4th of July,believe it or not ,liberals celebrate and cherish that holiday also.

Don't get angry ,keep producing facts...;-)

Happy 4th of July

Rising health care cost is a tax..An unstated tax but take home pay does not sort out tax and health care cost...It can only be a lie ;when and if it is implemented.

Again what is your solution?..Obama lied?

That is forcing us to do something against our will. It should be our own personal choice whether we buy medical insurance or not. Plenty of people do pay out of pocket for their medical needs & who is anybody else to say they shouldn't or can't continue to do so? I can't even think of how many different ways that is just wrong. Another freedom stripped away by the nanny who thinks she/he knows better.

That in and of itself would be a tax, and that would make Obama's pledge not to impose a tax on us, the proletariat, a lie!

I really don't see anything wrong with that PROPOSAL BUT WHAT IS YOUR IDEA? Status quo? I've got mine?

Questioning attitude is great but applying a solution is better..IMO

Health Care cost will be about $2.6 next year or anywhere from 16-20% of GDP..Want another 8 years of ignoring the issue?

We should not fear what Obama is doing regarding healthcare, please read below and decide if this is the change you voted for!

WASHINGTON -- Americans who refuse to buy affordable medical coverage could be hit with fines of more than $1,000 under a health care overhaul bill unveiled Thursday by key Senate Democrats looking to fulfill President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.

The Congressional Budget Office estimated the fines will raise around $36 billion over 10 years. Senate aides said the penalties would be modeled on the approach taken by Massachusetts, which now imposes a fine of about $1,000 a year on individuals who refuse to get coverage. Under the federal legislation, families would pay higher penalties than individuals.

In a revamped health care system envisioned by lawmakers, people would be required to carry health insurance just like motorists must get auto coverage now. The government would provide subsidies for the poor and many middle-class families, but those who still refuse to sign up would face penalties.

Called "shared responsibility payments," the fines would be set at least half the cost of basic medical coverage, according to the legislation. The goal is to nudge people to sign up for coverage when they are healthy, not wait until they get sick.

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

'We have lived far too long as individuals and not as a republic. '

You say that like living as individuals is a problem...

Catahula
Lee Atwater is dead and Karl Rove and is no longer a major player in national politics, so fear mongering is pretty much dead.

If you did not fear the Patriot Act and domestic spying (no tea parties back then) then trying to gin up fear over a watered- downed Cap-and-trade bill that still has concessions to the coal and oil industry; simply will not work. Making us aware of what is in that bill is a good thing and everyone should let their senators know; so that measure can be stricken in the fall.

By all means, demonstrate, protest, and come forward with new ideas because that’s what this country needs; more than fear mongering ….. We only have one political party at the table right now because the other simply says no…. Conservatives key on one word “TAX” but the unstated tax is stagnant wages, lost benefits, rising cost of Health Care and education, and unemployment……It's about take -home pay.

I’m not going to pretend to have all the answers but I just wish our political leaders would compromise(not their principals) on major legislation that will affect all our lives…Democrats nor Republican have a monopoly on “truth certain.”

Like all gimmicks and novelties; they seem to fade out.

Fox News did not give as much support; hence a lower turnout locally and nationally.

200 people,? My nephew’s graduation had more than that.

there were more than 200 people there! The Young Republicans had a sign in sheet so it should be interesting to see what the number was. Of course some people most likely did not sign in. Anyhow it was a good time. Texas Roadhouse was there with food and drink, good music, good conversation, and great people! When is the next one??

salazaa, sadly you are correct! There should have been 10,000 considering what's coming down the pike. My elderly mother-in-law lives on Victoria's east side.

She is a beautiful and kindly woman who always treated me better than her daughter did. After all these years she still calls me "hijo!" She is a blessing and it pains me greatly to see her decide once a month whether she will buy her medication or eat well that month.

Mr. Obama's cap and trade will cost her as much as $100.00 per month on her electricity bill! And all of this extra tax on a poor widow to solve the non-existant global warming.

My own mother is looking at the power bill each month with genuine fear because the Coop has already notified us that "cap and trade" will raise her power bill by that same $100.00.

For both their sakes I went to the TEA party simply because I believe they are both taxed enough already.

Despte the fact that locally real estate prices are flat both their property taxes went up. I am outraged at this!

I remain outraged that GBRA is still pushing the pipeline to take our water to the Hill Country. A project that will raise the taxes and city water rates for every person living in Victoria, Goliad, Calhoun and Refugio Counties.

God help the taxpayers! God help the small businessman and the average consumer!

We are, indeed Taxed Enough Already!

200 participants and The John Birch Society of Victoria? You gotta be kidding.

Wait for Fiestas Patrias next time, take this to a crowd since you can’t generate one.