It amazes and saddens me all at the same time that things such as dress codes work perfectly well in many other areas of our nation but we can't make it work in little old Victoria, population 80K +-. It seems that everything worthwhile here is just seen by too many people as being too difficult or too much trouble or somehow is an an encroachment on childrens rights of free expression. This is the problem with Victoria. For the most part it is a backward thinking, non-progressive (it's always been done that way) kind of city. Dress codes are not for teachers and neither are school rules (i.e gum chewing, and cell phone usage). Teachers and administrators are adults. Children are children. They are not and should not, be on the same level. Now that said, most schools have distinct guidelines on what their employees can and cannot wear, within reason, but children need to be able to differentate between what is right for them and what is right for adults and they need to understand that there are perks for making something of themselves and becoming contributing members of society.

Alton wrote: "But, many parents of teenagers that work shift work or must be at work before the teenager leaves for school is not able to ensure the clothes laid out for them are the actual clothes they wear". Bless your heart Alton. You truly must be a wonderful person. This does probably occur occasionally but most of the problems involve parents who could not care less where their children are or what they are doing, much less what they are wearing to school and they will fight school administrators tooth and nail rather than assume their rightful responsibility in the matter. I've seen it first hand, over and over again. Teachers can either teach or they can do discipline but to try and do both ensures that neither area gets full attention. Not to mention the fact that teachers want and need to have good rapport with their students and constantly getting on them about dress code matters undermines that severely. I always felt that all dress code violations should be handled in the 1st class period of the day. Every teacher should take a few minutes to look over their students and send them to the office immediately if they are not in compliance. After 1st period, don't address it again. Students arriving late should be scrutinized by the admitting official who allows them on campus.

IMHO

BigJ

I think it’s funny, if you can’t make fun of yourself then what’s the point in laughing. Besides I got the idea from the bible.

To many people try to micro manage everything, to the point that others become dependent on them for common sense; which is unacceptable. I rather point out something in a more general sense, hopefully inspiring others to solve problems on their own.

In a way it’s like driving a car. If you constantly drive, then the other guys lose out on the experience. If they are needed to drive you don’t want them asking you every single time when to pull out, turn, or pass. So you provide information in a more general format, hoping to develop instincts for good decision-making. Instead of providing a preformatted statement designed specifically for each situation.

A comparison to my line of thinking is “working the job instead of the job working you”.

When the Pharisees ask Jesus a trick question in order to entrap him in what would be the most logical response for that particular question, he spoke instead in a more general sense that could be applied beyond the current situation. This allowed those who listened to associate his answer with other things that would be more accepting, instead of simply in the context of the question.

You get more bees with honey, so I say something that some might not accept in away that is more acceptable by its association to other things.

I hope that is on topic, its educational, LoL.

At risk of criticism.

“In the preface to Profiles in Courage, Senator Kennedy discusses the “problems of political courage in the face of constituent pressures, and the light shed on those problems by the lives of past statesmen.’’
He describes the three types of pressure faced by senators as:

Pressure to be liked

Pressure to be re-elected, and

Pressure of the constituency and interest groups.”

John F. Kennedy was not a perfect man, but let me add my own words to his story.

“It is not perfection that human kind should aspire, but to be better than we are” – John Lara

If in doing this we are made better, then there is no argument as to whether it should be done. Let not our fears rule our lives but allow courage to create hope for a better tomorrow. The young can support wrong action as easily as their parents; given the opportunity they can see the error of their ways much more.

“Hope is found in opportunity, but opportunity only comes from having the courage to act.” - John

Mr Easton and Loveourmilitary - what you just described is something that yes, I went thru with my two older daughters. After they started in Jr. High, back to school shopping became a nightmare. I got those looks too! Yes, they had friends who they would "borrow" clothes from....It's difficult to enforce the rules when these things occurr, but I managed to do it.

I think, in speaking with a few teachers and at least one school board member, that they'd LIKE to immpliment the more standardized dress -- any color polo shirt, jeans/shorts and closed shoes. The resistence is going to come from the students and parents... "we need to express our individuality" blah blah blah...

That is why I say, just enforce the existing dress code. Make the parent responsible -- someone suggested making them pay a fine after receiving a warning...

Both of my daughters are now gainfully employed, and have a standardized dress code for work... Two weeks into her job, my youngest daughter tweaked her "uniform"- she was sent home and lost out on pay... she hasn't tweaked or forgotten in over 5 months!

I agree enforcement of the dress code should start with the parents. But, many parents of teenagers that work shift work or must be at work before the teenager leaves for school is not able to ensure the clothes laid out for them are the actual clothes they wear.

I recall two of my girls actually changing clothes in their car, so I would not know what they were wearing to school.
I became very unpopular when they lost their car privileges and had to ride the bus.

I remember the days when shopping for school clothes with my daughter was best called "Oh this must be what Hell is like days". I dreaded it! There was fighting, pouting, if looks could kill I'd be dead moments and threats..lots and lots of threats..like me slapping the..well you know what I mean! We'd get through them and I KNOW I didn't buy unexceptable clothing for school but somehow she managed to smuggle in "those clothes". I also remember sneaking in her room and going through her clothes and throwing away lots of things. There was a price to pay for me when she figured it out but I did it anyway. And then mysteriously, there would be more. She always had friends who's parents didn't give a hoot what they wore so I'm sure that's where these come from. I did care and it was a 24/7 battle. We got through those years. Didn't have any problems with my son. I think God felt sorry for me already with her. lol

What reason would there be that VISD couldn't go to polo type shirts and jeans with some codes (length etc.). They could wear these in or out. Would this be considered uniforms?

“To error is to be human”, and I believe that we are all human. Everyone is entitled to express his or her opinion, even young people. This matter however, is not about opinions or the virtue of individuals like this young person.

“School policy should be based according to what is most conducive or reduces severe detriments to learning” – John

If this decision were a matter of logic and reason, the answer would be simple; politics clouds sound judgment.

Unfortunately Victoria, TX needs a very defined simple dress code. The clientele in the schools is rough, and therefore a Dress Code would accomplish many things. First and foremost it would help the learning environment. It's immediate Gang abatement, it's cost effective for everyone involved, and it cleans up the horrific dress that is currently allowed. It would be a baby step on getting VISD back on track, but hey, you have to start somewhere. Ask any educator or Administrator and they all agree it would be welcomed in everyone of these battle zones. The middle schools, and High Schools are seriously out of control with gangs, and problems that the general public can't even fathom. The administration and teachers have to take our schools back! VISD has to do something these schools are horendous and spiral deeper and deeper into the culture of chaos. A dress code is a no brainer.

Yes, Raven! Rubi did a good job on this story! She didn't misquote my son, but rather cleaned up what he said to make it more coherent.

You all can sit back on this website and make disparraging remarks about my son and ASSUME he is some little juvenile delinquent who goes around defying authority every chance he gets.... But you don't know him! But he is a good student who has NEVER been a discipline problem! He just doesn't want to tuck in his shirt. BIG DAMN DEAL!

Get a grip People! HE NEVER SAID HE WOULDN'T ABIDE BY THE DRESS CODE BUT THAT HE WOULDN'T LIKE IT!

Good Grief people! Let it go already! The mom was satisfied with the story, and stated in the story and in this blog that regardless of what her son WANTED that she would make sure he WOULD abide by the rules! Now you want to string her and the reporter up?

And I suppose all of you who are parents of school aged kids... your kids wouldn't try to buck the system and would just good naturedly accept whatever -- yeah right! I've seen prior discussion whenever the uniform issue comes up.

Have any of you even asked your kids what they thought about the proposed dress codes? At least this kid said what he thought.

VISDMom says, *Sorry to be totally beside the point* Please, don't be sorry about pointing out a fact. Factual presentation is the entire point of credible reporting.

VISDMom, I'm sure Rubi is a nice young woman but she totally misquoted your son and left the impression that he will buck authority when he returns to school...and you tell her *good job*?

Rubi12rey says *not that it matters*.... Really? What does matter in reporting?

I'm certain errors occur at the Advocate just as they do in every workplace. But, it's the blasé attitude about this error by everyone involved in this report that has me scratching my head.

...*not that it matters*....*good job*....seriously?

As a mom and a teacher, first there is a rule in place regarding tucking in the shirts. If it comes past the finger tips or is a shirt with a rounded tail intended to be tucked in, then it is supposed to be tucked in.

As a teacher I was fighting this battle with jr. high students already 15 years ago. Even then administration wanted the teacher to contact the parent because the principals were busy with other disciplinary issues. And it hasn't gotten any better.

To me it boils down to if parents didn't bend or bow to their child's wishes about where and what type of school clothes to buy then we wouldn't have to be the clothes police at school. Also, if some of these companies were then not selling hundereds of pairs of jeans (with a two inch zipper) to young girls they would maybe start making more appropriate clothing.

For those who think it doesn't matter. Try getting a teen-age boy with raging hormones to focus on a class lesson when the young "lady" seated in front of him has on these low rise pants with a thong and a way too small shirt exposing him to 3-6 inches of her bare backside.

Ok, I see both sides of the dress code issue. I do think the dress code should be enforced. For those who think dress codes are pointless let me share what I saw the other day. We took our granddaughter to the circus & there was a woman behind us wearing a F--- Y'all, I'm from Texas shirt (the shirt was not edited), at the CIRCUS for crying out loud! She could've benefitted from an enforced dress code in her life.

Dress codes teach children how to appropriately dress for occasions. That womans shirt would be fine at a bar but not for the circus. Has anyone seen how people are dressing for job interviews these days? If I didn't see some of them for myself, I wouldn't believe it.

""It wouldn't bother me if they had the rule, but I wouldn't tuck in my shirt," Samuel said."

Then he was misquoted & it needs to be corrected.

VISDmom, as I stated in an earlier comment: I am the mother of the child quoted in the article... and basically, whether he stated he would not comply or whether he said he wouldn't like the rule... bottom line is, as his mother, IF he were required by the school to tuck in his shirt, like it or not, I would make SURE he would comply!

Right now, there is no standard requiring shirts tucked in, so it's not an issue....

Coolgranny, thank you for your input.

newearth, I agree that the parents should be held responsible! somehow. Maybe if they had to pay a fine each time their child was not appropriately attired, they'd take the time to enforce the rules, thus teaching their kids that life is full of rules that must be abided by whether we like them or not.

Rubi, again, you did a good job.

VHS had dress codes back in the 60's and the majority of all students adherred to them, just ask some of the girls who were sent home for micro-mini skirts. Those were the days! The main problem was teachers enforced the rules on some students and looked the other way for others. No matter where you go or what you do, there are always rules to follow! If you do not follow the rules, you suffer the consequences like losing your job, going to court for truancy, getting a traffic violation, etc. In this time in their lives, students need to be learning, not just trying to be cool wearing their pants 3 sizes too big or being in a gang. Go to school and get an education so you can be a responsible, productive employee and citizen.

If the district can charge a fine if students miss so much school, then fine the parents when that student does not follow the dress code, in real life if you break the law/rule you pay either by a ticket or jail time. VISD is concerned about social skills this surely represents a social skill.

Sorry to be totally beside the point, but Rubi, it matters a whole lot if you misquote, either deliberately or accidently. As a journalist, you should know that. In the article, the student states quite clearly he will not comply. If he did NOT say that, then you misquoted him. And that does matter.

Make up your mind. It is july 14. You should of been looking at the sales on clothes for the past few months and you expect the parents to comply with a exact dress code and no decision YET. You are dealing with parents time and money which is in bad shape already.

It is obvious to me that most posters are not teachers. Does anyone realize how long a discipline slip is or how long it takes to fill the flipping thing out. Trust me-most teachers don't bother with this, and quite frankly, it is admins problem. Just like on any other job. If anyone didn't meet the minimum standard of dress, middle management would turn it into management. Teachers are mid-management folks. Yep, the job is to teach the kids, not enforce dress codes. Here are the two worst case scenerios in which I was ever involved. Seventh grade male student respectable looking dress. T shirt over pants that didn't have to be crotch grabbed to keep them up. Folks, wake up and really look at how the kids keep their clothes up. No obscene language, no sexual innuendos, no bashing. Half way through the honors class, the kid stands up, walks out of his pants and struts his stuff. He is fully engaged with himself and his silhouette indicated no undies. Thank God that his T shirt was a long one. I told the class to all close their eyes. I commanded that he pull his pants up and strut himself outside. Yep, I wrote that one up with all of the details. The kid got 3 days suspension-no witnesses were necessary-as usually is required. Principal didn't want to touch that one with a ten foot pole. Sixth grade, female. Dressed in the short coverall type outfit, nothing but skin hanging out. Female stands outside of my door and peeks through the window. Fellow teacher calls me. Your stalker is here. I 'm calling security. Female runs into my room without knocking, screaming and yelling as to how unfair I am, and did I know that her daughter was being picked on by a bully in this very classroom. I quickly said yes, in fact he is sitting outside right now until I can write him up with all of the details. Security comes in and escorts this scantily clad mom out. She starts screaming again and ends up in handcuffs. Dress codes were needed 25 years ago. I am sooooooooooooooooglaaaaaaaaaaaaad that I am retired from teaching.

The whole point for public education was to empower citizens to lead and procure gainful employment. Let’s face it, as it stands providing our young people with “fast food” education. The way many dress at school and the attitude towards compiling with rules and regulations can be seen were they end up. If you haven’t got a clue yet, here is a tip “would you like fries with that” or how about “we get those shoes in next week”. While I have the utmost respect for all occupations, this should not our students aspire to be. How you live your life, and going to school is part of it, is who you face the world. You can’t have it both ways, you can’t teach them through “allowance” that the world will give you what you want your way.

The real world is not like burger king, you can’t have it your way and expect to receive the best life has to offer. I feel the greatest amount of pity for those young people who have been misled into believing that they are doing right, when actually they are not.

Okay come on now. The real issue here is a kids school education, what difference does it make on what they are wearing. It isn't the teachers job to send a child to the office because he or she are wearing crazy clothes. There job is to TEACH so please do so Teach our kids. It is now our job as a parent to make sure we send our kids to school dressed respectfull to not only themselves but to everyone around them.

Your kids are sent to school to learn not for a fashion show or who is pretty than others, but to learn. So even if you put a dress code in force you are always going to have some kid that is going to push, that means they will alter those out fits.

So Teachers need to teach and kids need to learn and parents need to be parents......

I meant to say he would follow the rules

Not that it matters but he meant he wouldn't want to...not that he would follow the rules.

This subject has been going on for years. I remember my daughter being sent home with her short skirts. I left for work early so she would get out with one on! After the second time, her phone went (corded phones) and so did the rest in the house. When I left I unplugged mine and took it with me. I'm not sure if that's what did it but she didn't get sent home again. lol

I still like the uniform thing. Even if it's polo shirts and jeans.

Thanks for clarifying Rubi!

Hicktoria, that's a really good point! I can see where, normally, that would indeed be a "lesson"... If the students saw that as a lesson.

The problem is, sending them to ISS/detention/home isn't much of a punishment to some students...

When teachers stop teaching to write a pass to the office or a referral so students will be in compliance, the dress code impacts student achievement, Schuenemann said.

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Is this not a teaching in itself? Would this not teach the student if he or she breaks rules there will be consequences? Other students would see this and "learn" from example IMO...

Samuel didn't say he wouldn't tuck in his shirt, he said he wouldn't like it but would comply with the rules.

Let me say something here: First, I am the person who was interviewed by Rubi. She did a good job on this article and it is something that needs to be addressed.

Next - I agree that tucking in a shirt makes it more difficult to hide a weapon.... but if a student were determined to bring a weapon to school, I don't think a tucked in shirt would be much of deterrant.

My son didn't say he would REFUSE to tuck in his shirt if it were required (and right now it is NOT a requirement) He said he wouldn't WANT to or wouldn't LIKE it if it were required... The article stated that I believe that parents should be the FIRST ENFORCERS of the dress code. If it were required for him to tuck in his shirt, he WOULD tuck in his shirt, like it or not!

Crazyme - I've been involved with VISD since 1995. In that time I've NEVER seen a teacher dressed inappropriately for his/her class. From elementary to high school. I have a relative who is a teacher and she tells me that the teachers at her campus ARE following the dress code and setting an example... But the FIRST example should be the PARENTS! The parents KNOW what is and is not allowed by the current dress code, so when they buy their kids school clothes, they shouldn't purchase clothes that are objectionable. Plain and simple. It should be the parents who make sure their child is appropriatley attired before sending them off to school.

I do not even know why people are wasting their time arguing over the dress code. Teachers and Administration are NOT going to enforce the dress code. I have seen it happen over and over again. The dress code is the least of a their problems. OR some teachers enforce it and some don't. PLUS THE TEACHERS NEED TO FOLLOW THE DRESS CODE!!! How can a teacher expect a student to dress properly when they are not? Teachers seem to think they don't have to follow the dress code. Students learn by example! Teachers and administration need to be the example. Until the board have the teachers and administrators on board they might as well give up on the dress code. GOOD LUCK!

How can you say you think they should enforce the dress code & then turn around & say if they expect you to tuck in your shirt you will refuse? Thats the opposite of following the dress code & one of the main reasons the current dress code isn't working. Too many kids are picking & choosing which rules they wish to follow. I do hope your mom will make sure your shirt is tucked in when you go off to school.

I can understand the issue related to tucking in of shirts. When the shirt is tucked in, it is not easy to hide a weapon, it is not easy to expose skin when one bends over.
Dress codes today are a lot more liberal than during my days of school.
A bit of advise to Samuel about not following the dress code. Life is full of choices, often the price of the choice is more than what you will desire, but you must pay the price.