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  • So...just how are we going to Take Back Our Constitution? Perhaps Geanie Morrison and Tina Benkiser can give us some pointers. BLAH HA HA HA HA!!! I was going to stay home in protest this time; but--on second though--I think I'll attend with my protest sign.

    April 14, 2010 at 11:28 a.m.
  • BSspotter: Thanks for the information. It was very interesting and educational. I love learning new things!

    April 14, 2010 at 8:08 a.m.
  • Mike.

    Look up the Radical Center, the Modern Whig Party Platform, and the Democratic Freedom Caucus. Yes I was critical of a local businessman switching sides in order to be popular. Unlike that person, I stand on my own principle and never stick my finger in the air. I would be hated, like I am now, for my principles than being well-liked and popular for changing opinions like underwear.

    April 14, 2010 at 12:55 a.m.
  • BS Spotter.

    Me Simmer down? Not until Justice flows down like water and wash away the unjust!!!!!!! I have just about enough, ENOUGH with the “hidden” code talk. I do not trust nor like the Tea Party movement based on its timing, ideology, attitude, mentality, and some of its offensive signs.

    April 14, 2010 at 12:48 a.m.
  • Thanks Mike, it was something the IRS didn't do last year, that's why I mentioned it.

    On another note, my instructions said to apply (this) label if I was due a refund, that one went to Austin, the other label, if a payment is enclosed goes to Charlotte NC.

    So my return is headed to North Carolina.

    April 13, 2010 at 5:50 p.m.
  • Less wordy but it helps the IRS process your payment accurately and in an efficient manner according to IRS.gov

    April 13, 2010 at 5:44 p.m.
  • Legion357

    If I may? I toured the Internal Revenue Service Center in Austin, sometime before 9/11 and was told that the voucher is to match your payment in case a worker loses your check (falls on floor etc)... the workers were in cubicles with tax returns on their desk and on the floor. One department would come in and remove the Schedule SE for Social Security, another would take the check and voucher for deposit, and another would input the return....Hope that helps.

    April 13, 2010 at 5:39 p.m.
  • Taxes are paid, check is enclosed, envelope is sealed, will mail it tomorrow. Your welcome, to who ever spends it!

    Oh, what's up with the 1040-V form if you owe?

    I thought the idea was to reduce paperwork.

    April 13, 2010 at 5:31 p.m.
  • Waywardwind
    I have always said that I respected Ron Paul, but I would never vote for him because I can go along with about 20 minutes of a 30 minute Ron Paul speech. I have always said that a politician with principles is one in a safe seat. I've always said Ron Paul was a man of principle but I'm not so sure or what he would say and do if he were not in a gerrymandered district. I give him the benefit of the doubt.

    He is a nice likable man, not a hater, a strict constitutionalists (as he sees it) and I know where he stands every day.

    Nothing new.

    April 13, 2010 at 5:12 p.m.
  • Mike...Who are you and what have you done with Mike? You're saying nice things about Ron Paul. You can't be the Mike we've come to know and love. :)

    April 13, 2010 at 5:02 p.m.
  • BSspotter

    Presidents are reluctant to give up tools left to them by previous administrations....Is it right or wrong? I don't think it's at the top of the lists of "things to do.".....Democrats won't touch it because the the GOP will hang a "weak on terror" label on them and the GOP will keep them rather than admit fault for instituting them.

    Middle East withdrawal must be done responsible manner because we will again leave those that helped us in a vulnerable position...I think the"war on drugs" is about over and the Patriot Act will be repealed in Obama's second term but if that doesn't happen don't expect a GOP president to repeal it. The Military Tribune recently reconvened; so it was put on the back burner...You got to remember the Military Commission is pretty popular with the public.

    April 13, 2010 at 4:30 p.m.
  • Mike,
    I view the charges of hypocrisy against the (new) Tea Party the same way I view the hypocrisies of the Republican Party over the last decade -- same people, same ideology, same result.

    I really don't want to be on these message boards in 3-7 years asking people where they were when "their" President had the opportunity to kill the Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, War on Drugs, and/or the Middle East occupation.

    April 13, 2010 at 4:16 p.m.
  • BSspotter
    I have to give Ron Paul his kudos because he doesn't waver (it may be because he is a safe seat). He went to the Southern Republican Leadership Conference and called the conservatives hypocritical when they call for a return to Constitutional values while supporting foreign wars.

    "The conservatives and the liberals, they both like to spend," Paul said, according to Think Progress. "Conservatives spend money on different things. They like embassies, and they like occupation. They like the empire. They like to be in 135 countries and 700 bases.

    He did the same thing at CPAC and came away the straw vote winner and came in 2nd in New Orleans.

    April 13, 2010 at 3:50 p.m.
  • sage1,

    I participated in the 12/16/07 Tea Party that started on the Texas Capitol steps, marched down Congress Ave., and dumped "tea" boxes into Town Lake that represented the various mechanisms of the state that we oppose. And yes, "Patriot Act" was stenciled on one of the boxes. These events were happening all over the country in support of the Ron Paul presidential campaign and continued afterward. As they picked up steam, we started seeing the party hacks trying to capitalize on the growth of the movement, which is how it turned into the hypocritical fiasco it is today.

    To illustrate that the Austin-area folks still have some credibility, they booed Sen. John Cornyn at a Tea Party on 7/4/09 because they know he's part of the problem. This is a classic.
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=i92zmYCd81s

    I'm reading lots of "where were you when..." rhetoric regarding Bush's administration. To set the record straight, it was our opposition to Bush's presidency that coalesced into the early Tea Party/Ron Paul movement, and sadly, it's been taken over by people who supported Bush's actions. It's been hard to watch.

    Our local Tea Party will be just another demonstration of the gullibility of partisan dolts.

    April 13, 2010 at 3:39 p.m.
  • exresident: I never answered your question: Where do I stand on the murderous policies of our President? That's a tough one. I believe there are rules of engagement in war...no women, no children, no civilians. I've gotten in to this debate with a lot of people and pretty much everyone I've talked to disagrees with me. I think anytime we break these rules, we are doing wrong. While I am ashamed of the nukes we dropped and the innocents we killed, others argue that that saved lives. How can I argue against that? There is no way of measuring that - we can't measure what didn't happen. But assuming they are right, there does seem to be a level of collateral damage that people are willing to excuse in war. Ideally, I'd like only soldiers to pay that price - since they are willing to make that sacrifice for us. (of course it would be best if no paid that price). Realistically, it is impossible to engage in this type of war without innocent casualties. I am pleased that we seem to be moving toward a more humane time. We are no longer holding prisoners (some of whom may actually be innocent) without a trial; we are removing troops from a region where we had no business being; we are condemning torture.

    April 13, 2010 at 1:11 p.m.
  • exresident: I figured some of the tone was lost in text. No harm; no foul.

    I'm not sure how I have a double standard: but I would be interested to know. My beef with the Tea Party is I heard nothing from them prior to the election of Obama. So it seemed as though they were up in arms because they didn't get what they wanted in the elections. BSspotter says that the originial members did have a problem with the Patriot Act, but the movement has since evolved. I guess I am annoyed because I hear a lot of people complaining about things being uncostitutional (Obama's election to office and the Health Care Bill), but I heard very little from that side when we gave up our right to protect the privacy of our homes with the Patriot Act. I acknowledge the possibility that these people did cry out - but I never heard them; not like I can hear them now.

    April 13, 2010 at 1:03 p.m.
  • Exresident: I don't think doublethink applies here. There is no accepatance of contradictory statements. I think you might be thinking of doublespeak...but I'd still have to disagree with you that it is either - until you can support your statement.

    Also, and I'm not sure why I am bringing this up because it sounds like a personal attack and you could very easily lie about it if you wanted to: Based on your many posts and responses, your superficial understanding of current events, and your perpertual references to youtube, I have concluded that you are either still in college or have graduated within the last five years.

    It's good that you are involved and practicing your debating skills and wit - but perhaps you have as much to learn as you have to share.

    April 13, 2010 at 10:45 a.m.
  • ex: OK, so you made the assertion that it's double think...prove it.

    April 13, 2010 at 10:37 a.m.
  • exresident: Just be direct. What is your point? What are you trying to say regarding blowing up innocents? I have no idea why you are bringing that up...how does it relate to my post? It seems so out of left field in relation to my post, that I'm left wondering if perhaps the comment was intended for someone else.

    April 13, 2010 at 10:36 a.m.
  • exresident: You are a little condescending. It doesn't make you seem any more credible, just a little out of your element.

    As far as pulling out of Iraq - I am refering to the speech Obama gave a few months ago when he gave plan for decreasing toops in Iraq and increasing the troops in Afghanistan. Here is the direct quote, "Let me say this as plainly as I can: by August 31, 2010, our combat mission in Iraq will end."

    The terrorists are not just from Saudi Arabia. They are located in various countries across Asia and the Middle East. I am refering to Al Qaeda and the Taliban who harbor them.

    I hope that is clear. What other questions do you have?

    April 13, 2010 at 10:29 a.m.
  • Lol..You really are showing how much you don't know

    April 13, 2010 at 9:07 a.m.
  • Status of Forces Agreement is something you cannot overlook.
    President Obama already has a reduction of military contractors in his defense budget but your mind is already made up ;so I won't try and confuse it with facts.

    April 13, 2010 at 9:02 a.m.
  • I'd prefer to see the troop count substantially decrease in the Middle East, not just in Iraq. If we want to stop worrying about a "terrorist" setting off a nuke on US soil, stop giving them reasons.

    April 13, 2010 at 8:58 a.m.
  • We are down to 50,000 troops and I saw a Dan Rather's HDTV report, where they were dismantling several bases ,taking inventory, and moving the equipment to Kuwait..The Status of Forces Agreement President Bush signed with the Iraqi PM requires it...

    April 13, 2010 at 8:50 a.m.
  • exresident: Your post confused me. If you're asking me - I had a problem with the Iraqi war because of the pretenses of our invasion. It was a lie; I knew we were being lied to; I didn't like it. I went to a couple of protests in Tallahassee, FL to express my discontent. Now that we are pulling out of Iraq, I'm pleased. I agree with being in Afghanistan and Pakistan for the purpose of fighting terrorism. I'm not sure what your point or question was, but I hope I answered it.

    April 13, 2010 at 8:20 a.m.
  • BSspotter: Thanks. I didn't know the movement had been around that long. I love the post...dig the humor - and the moniker.

    April 12, 2010 at 1:49 p.m.
  • Mike,
    Yes my Q’s were loaded.

    That word sacrifice, it’s really getting old. I think it’s about time that Congress starts making sacrifices. You just can’t spend what you do not have. I think it’s about time for them to start looking at the budget before jumping in with both feet before passing these massive entitlement programs like HC… I will tell you, it’s getting old, and the Dems have put the big numbers up, they have been kissing this President butt so much they’re having to carry tissue, it's that bad.

    April 12, 2010 at 12:29 p.m.
  • Victore
    I realized you won't be satisfied with any answer I give you besides those questions are not relevant because it seems to be loaded questions without favorable outcomes.

    You seem to blame the left for all these problems. The CBO did come out and say that the deficit was unsustainable (we already knew that) unless we make some serious cuts in the entitlements and defense spending. The Band-Aid fixes such as cutting pork, 17% across-the-board cuts except for entitlements and defense spending is not going to cut it. The Republicans don't want to raise taxes nor cut defense spending. The Democrats (left and right) do not want to cut entitlements but are willing to cut defense spending and raise the caps on Social Security.

    Yes, conservative Paul Volker thinks a value added tax will be needed but the Obama administration has not committed to that. It is a consumer tax that could replace some corporate taxes; then I think the Republicans would buy into it. Fact is; we need to start talking about some fixes instead of demonizing everything that comes forward as a thought. You like polls but did you know that most Americans blame the Bush administration for our economic troubles?

    The $250,000 threshold will be an obstacle because economists say it would take 92% tax rate on the wealthiest people if we only use that option. That's neither realistic nor practical. Obama like (George H. W. Bush) will have to recant on his campaign pledge…IMO

    The one thing that Ernie and I agreed prior to the election; was that the next president would have to convince us to sacrifice. Every administration that comes forward will try to appease the American people but will never ask them to sacrifice. Back in 2001, I thought the Bush administration should have asked us to sacrifice rather than go shopping.

    April 12, 2010 at 11:50 a.m.
  • sage1, the core group that began the Tea Party events had a major problem with the Patriot Act, Iraq War, etc., but the make-up of the movement has changed considerably with the contrived cheerleading by establishment hacks. This is further evidenced by our local Tea Parties choice of speakers. I'd be happy with throwing the entire Tea Party into Boston Harbor and starting over with a focus on consistent principles over reactionary blather.

    April 12, 2010 at 11:47 a.m.
  • LoL!

    April 12, 2010 at 11:37 a.m.
  • Mike,
    Good morning to you.

    The trip was great; we will do it again in September. Thanks for asking.

    Since you want answer my questions, I guess we can safely say the progressive wheel of the far left is full steam ahead, despite what the American opinion is.

    It is interesting that the CBO says the deficit is unsustainable, but the left is pushing for more entitlements and now Obama's main eco-man thinks a value added tax is good on top of all the other taxes. Obama, no taxes for those making under 250k, yeah you bet. I have swamp land in AZ I will sell you.

    April 12, 2010 at 11:23 a.m.
  • The Tea Party movement cracks me up. You have a problem with constitutionalism now, but you didn't when the Patriot Act was passed? Tea Party supporters are just pissed off because McCain didn't win. They sound like children pitching a fit because they didn't get what they wanted. It's a laughable movement that will not amount to anything significant today or tomorrow - except perhaps the butt of a joke.

    Thanks for the belly laugh!

    April 12, 2010 at 11:21 a.m.
  • I don't do requests.

    April 12, 2010 at 10:59 a.m.
  • Good morning Victore

    I am not even an expert on Mike much less the Obama machine.:-)

    Republicans are indeed Americans, as well as the Liberals your side likes to mock.

    Obama’s poll numbers are indeed down but they are not in the 30s when your side said “poll numbers don’t mean anything.”

    How was your trip to Las Vegas? I see you made it back refreshed.

    April 12, 2010 at 10:57 a.m.
  • This president is enforcing the same policies but no one is paying attention because we're more interested in attaching labels than we are in gradually moving back to the Constitutional America we were prior

    April 12, 2010 at 10:51 a.m.
  • Mike,
    You’re the expert on the Obama machine, so tell me how did he obtain all this great wealth of knowledge that makes him smarter than anyone else?

    Why does he mock the American people when steps up to the microphone (Republicans), are they not Americans?

    Why he is so hell bent that his ideology is right for America? Did he just awake in the middle of the night, “I have all the answers...”

    He has consistently showed his arrogance for those that are against his polices and he is continuing that crusade.

    Oh let’s not forget, his polls numbers have not increased since the passage of HC…

    April 12, 2010 at 10:49 a.m.
  • I saw that Michelle Bachmann interview where Chris corrected her several times but like the "Energy Bunny" she kept on going;using all the talking points like socialist,anti-American and most radical president in the history of the United States. By the time Liz Cheney came on; Bachmann had already sucked all the oxygen out of the show.

    April 12, 2010 at 10:49 a.m.
  • Did the Virginia governor declare Confederate History Month more than once?

    Geo. Bush was a socialist, a so-called compassionate conservative - he did not know for sure what he believed in. And yes, we agree Medicare part D was a mistake just like the recently passed healthcare bill that promises to financially ruin us.

    And the PA and MCA were hammered by the Supreme Court as they should have been. But isn't Obama still wire tapping, I think he is.

    April 12, 2010 at 10:42 a.m.
  • BSspotter

    Liberties is your forte;not so sure it how far it transcends...We all want our liberties but it's the exact definition of "liberties" where we might disagree.i.e. No smoking areas,traffic lights,2nd Amendment, and freedom of speech.

    Are you suggesting that diversity should lead to diminished rights?

    Diminished rights is in the eyes of the beholder but don't take it for granted that every one has the same level of paranoia, distrust and hostility. That was a good example you gave; when liberties were stripped in the name of homeland security; the country pretty much went along. According to a report released last week; the Bush administration knew many detainees at Guantánamo Bay were innocent but detained them anyway; knowing the country would not mind. This president is enforcing the same policies but no one is paying attention because we're more interested in attaching labels than we are in gradually moving back to the Constitutional America we were prior to 9/11.

    April 12, 2010 at 10:40 a.m.
  • I'm aware of the hacks but this group (according to the pundits)are also mad at Wall Street..I wonder if they will side with the GOP, if they decide to vote no on finance reform....Right now they are deficit hawks,anti-health care/big government for the most part...Anger can be used both ways;your opponent can use it against you.

    April 12, 2010 at 10:19 a.m.
  • ExR, if Iraq had invaded Yemen in 1990 do you think there would have been a First Gulf War? Foreign (US) troops in the mideast got Osama Bin Laden all choked up and mad as hell and the rest, as they say, is history.

    If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, and I see no reason why they won't and starts passing them out to their friends and then they threaten oil production, we will fight when oil goes to $500/bbl - care to bet?

    April 12, 2010 at 10:18 a.m.
  • I watched Chris Wallace limply interview Michelle Bachmann yesterday. She is some scary stuff. Probably scarier than Sarah Palin.

    April 12, 2010 at 10:14 a.m.
  • Mike, the Nolan Chart is not scripture, but I think it's a useful illustration of the components of liberty. It's way too simple to be comprehensive. I've seen better charts.

    I'm not sure what ethnicity has to do with liberties. Are you suggesting that diversity should lead to diminished rights?

    1) I have no answer for that, but I know that it's not an indictment of those of us who strive to maximize the individual rights of everyone.
    2) Believe it or not, that passage woke up a great many people to the illusion of the left-right paradigm. I was and still am outraged.
    3) Many of us were very actively campaigning against such laws, including the Military Commissions Act. This was a wake-up call. Many future Tea Partiers were in full support of it, namely Glenn Beck.

    I can't argue with your last paragraph. I think the Tea Party (v2.0) is comprised of many that have eaten up everything Fox News has told them for the last decade.

    April 12, 2010 at 10:14 a.m.
  • I should have said "trying" because it remains to be seen if the GOP goes in that direction....The demographics show that the GOP needs the Tea Party because they are not a diverse party...It seems to me the Tea Party is in the drivers seat but I could be wrong.

    April 12, 2010 at 10 a.m.
  • BSspotter, you give a lot of credence to the Nolan Chart. I think that chart is outdated and it is biased because it was created by a libertarian; who puts all the good in his corner and distributes the bad amongst the rest of the political spectrum.
    This country has evolved and we have now have a multicultural mindset that was not considered in the 1970s, when that chart was created.

    To prove my point; what is the ethic, racial, makeup of the Tea Party, militia, or any protesting group today? I know the patented answer; the minorities are the recipients of the welfare state, so they are generally happy… Can anyone support that view with documented data?

    (1)Why is it that Republican governor of Virginia always declare a month to honor the Confederacy but Democratic governor doesn't?
    (2) Since President George W. Bush took the first steps to bail out Wall Street, deliver stimulus programs and his administration gave us that $7 trillion Medicare part D(not paid for) where was at the Tea Party and why was he not called a socialist?
    (3) Constitution: Where were to Tea parties when the Patriot Act was passed?

    The Tea Party to just another wing of the Republican Party with wing nuts like Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin leading this once great party to the far right. They will have a short-term success (off-season elections) but eventually people want politicians to govern. What will happen when they are in the driver's seat again?

    April 12, 2010 at 9:48 a.m.
  • Entitlements and out of control public employee union benefits are the parents of debt and deficits.

    Our military industrial complex came about the hard way. The United States unilaterally disarmed after every cconflict until the Korean War. Admittedly we tried to rely just on the "bomb" after WWII.

    Now we are forced to defend the oil fields in the mideast. We should have weaned ourselves from foriegn oil years ago, by putting a tariff on it, a big one, and a tax on transportation fuels. But that would have caused a lot of whining - so here we are.

    The government and environmentalist prevented the drilling of domestic oil, and they still are. In addition the nuclear energy "nuts" have prevented the utilization of this energy source and made us overly dependent on coal. We consume huge quantities of coal that is not sustainable IMO.

    As far as nuclear energy is concerned we are being lapped by the rest of the world. There are plans for about 300 new reactors around the world. The US plans between 7 and 26. India is building a "fast breeder" reactor that will burn depleted uranium, making this energy source almost limitless. Obama cancelled all research and development on this type of reactor.

    Third world, here we come - all aboard!


    April 12, 2010 at 9:41 a.m.
  • Mike,
    When I say Beck is correct about some economic issues, I'm not suggesting they're his ideas. If he's right, it's probably a coincidence. And I didn't just throw in Palin for effect. I think she peddles the same contradictions as Beck.

    April 12, 2010 at 9:23 a.m.
  • rollinstone, I brought up the Nolan Chart so we could discuss liberty with more accuracy, not necessarily better precision. I'm not splitting hairs when I say that Glenn Beck's stance on foreign policy & national security are unfriendly to both personal & economic liberties. If this movement is to be led by war hawks & police state advocates, I can't be a cheerleader for it, but I can do my best to shed light on any contradictions within the movement. I see the War in Iraq (& future foreign misadventures) as being as insulting to our liberties as the new health care reform. Both injure our freedom from overbearing government.

    "Of all the enemies of public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies. From these proceed debts and taxes. And armies, debts and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."
    - James Madison

    April 12, 2010 at 9:13 a.m.
  • BSspotter

    While you're spot on to the most recent Tea Party, it does mimic the Ron Paul Revolution of 2007; but these groups have been around for about a hundred years. The most successful one was the Ross Perot movement of 1992. Mr. Perot received about 20% of the national vote in the presidential race between George H. W. Bush and the eventual winner William Jefferson Clinton. Ross Perot’s movement was about the deficit, when the economy came around, his group eventually fizzled.

    Lol… You think Glenn Beck spot on some economic issues? He admits he's a clown and an entertainer. Glenn Beck is a shameless shill for the gold market; nothing else. When serious people talk about the economy; no one will bring up the name of Glenn Beck. You throw in the name of Sarah Palin for good measure but they are both opportunists who will tickle their audience’s ears, to fatten their bank account. There is no contest between Palin and the president of the United States because he is not going to waste his time, lower his statue, or thinks that it would be productive to even pay attention to someone that does not know what she is talking about. The pundits will try to get the president to react but I think he was dead on when he said ""I really have no response to that. The last I checked, Sarah Palin is not much of an expert on nuclear issues," Obama said in an interview with ABC News.

    Writein

    You call yourself a centrist but you have ideological views that don't support that..IMO.. You criticized a poster for trying to be popular but it takes more than hating liberals and conservatives to be a centrist..IMO… I think a centrist will take the good from liberalism, conservatism, and libertarianism; mesh them together, to come up with a solution. I certainly am not a centrist; and I don't really know anyone that is(in this forum); what we have is a whole lot of ideologues posting their viewpoints.

    April 12, 2010 at 9:12 a.m.
  • taking back the constitution...
    tsk tsk tsk.
    i dosn't take long for history to be forgotten...
    "Republicans are suddenly up in arms at the thought of using the self-executing deem and pass rule to pass legislation, calling it unconstitutional and horribly unjust. Never mind that in 2005-2006, the last year the Republicans controlled Congress, they used that same procedure 35 times in that year alone."(washington post)
    come on tea party... maybe a little intelligence would be good for your cause.

    April 12, 2010 at 8:34 a.m.
  • BS, you are trying to measure political philosophy in nano-meters, I don't think that is possible. Our great nation is being drug by the ear down a dismal road that will end in a great loss to us and to the world.

    We are becoming a nation of miserable dependents. We are losing that spirit of freedom and can do enthusiasm that has made us the envy of the world.

    I support any party are person that wants to reclaim our heritage. If they don't fit exactly on the "Nolan Chart" I don't care, because right now we have communists in control of our country. I will vote for anyone that will try to undo the harm that has been done. That's the least I can do for future generations.

    April 12, 2010 at 8:30 a.m.
  • rollinstone, would you say Beck is even the slightest bit more statist or centrist than the original intent of the Tea Parties of 2007? I never claimed Beck to be a full-blown statist. He is spot-on most economic issues. Considering his whole career, does he add credibility or legitimacy to the Freedom Movement, or does he subtract from it? In terms of the Nolan Chart, if the TPs were at the top peak, has Beck done any damage to the personal or economic liberty components? Don't forget about his stance on foreign policy and national security, which effect both.

    April 11, 2010 at 10:48 p.m.
  • BS, this is the definition of "statism:

    "The term statism is sometimes used to refer to state capitalism or highly-regulated market economies with large amounts of government intervention. It is also used to refer to state socialism or co-operative economic systems that use the state, through nationalization, as a means of running industry.

    Statism reached its highest point in the centrally planned fascist (Nazi Germany) and communist (Soviet Union) countries, but exists in varying degrees in every country in the world. Between the end of World War II and the fall of the Soviet Union, many Western European nations ran mixed economies (10-45% public). In Singapore, 60% of the country's GDP comes from government-linked companies. State-run industries are part of the public sector."

    Now Glenn Beck is many things, but he is not a statist in fact he is revolted by the concept. Obama, on the otherhand is a statist and so is the entire Democratic Party. OK, the Republican Party is not much better but they are better.

    April 11, 2010 at 9:27 p.m.
  • Writein, simmer down now. I meant that in relative terms, hence "MORE centrist". I meant that he would derail the purely Constitutional agenda and redeisgn & sell it to a MORE centrist (and/or statist) audience. I think Beck is a neocon-at-heart trying to pass himself off as libertarian. While making the Tea Party movement more popular, he's also made it more "State friendly". I feel the same way about Sarah Palin's involvement. Her pissing contests with the President are proof that she is satisfied with operating tit-for-tat in that paradigm.

    And Beck is not my boy. Here are my past comments on Beck, if you need a refresher:
    www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2009/ju...
    www.victoriaadvocate.com/weblogs/poli...
    www.victoriaadvocate.com/weblogs/poli...

    We can go round-n-round again about degrees of statism, but I don't think it's fruitful.

    April 11, 2010 at 9:02 p.m.
  • BS spotter I concur with your statement "the movement was branded & hijacked by the establishment". I feel violated because I early voted for Cloud and though I feel that he may still be the lesser of the evils, I am upset with Cloud at the moment as I am with a lot of the establishment.

    April 11, 2010 at 8:50 p.m.
  • BS Spotter.

    Your statement is a lie, a downright lie.. LOOK UP the meaning of the word centrist and the word statist. Glenn Beck is not a centrist. Most centrist hate Glenn Beck. Glenn Beck is your boy, BS Spotter. Glenn Beck is conservative hack.

    I am a consider to be a centrist and Glenn Beck is not on my side.

    April 11, 2010 at 5:38 p.m.
  • Yeah, if I was going to start a rebellion the first thing I would do is recruit as many retired, gray haired, pot bellied, old people as I could. These people look very menacing and ready to do riot.

    April 11, 2010 at 12:26 p.m.
  • Barbara, if a rebellion was a hidden agenda, I don't think they would have used such a rebellious name. It originally (2007) was meant to be a peaceful rebellion against the status quo of thought by pushing back against the system with Constitutional ideals. It became obvious to me that once Glenn Beck got on-board, the movement would take a more centrist/statist path, and it has, which makes it very unlikely it will turn violent, unless initiated by agent provocateurs.

    It's ironic that the Tea Parties were spawned from the Ron Paul movement, and the political party that has continued to reject Paul's ideas has co-opted his movement. Paul was (& still is) a growing threat to their system, so they kicked out one of his legs.

    April 11, 2010 at 11:28 a.m.
  • Teabaggers!

    April 11, 2010 at 11:12 a.m.
  • Kenneth.

    Is that true in what the Victoria Democratic Party Chair said about Morrison? Why won't you run since you are so upset about things?

    April 11, 2010 at 4:49 a.m.
  • I do believe that using the name "Tea Party" given its connotations indicates that someone might be duping a lot of people into believing one thing when indeed they intend to start a rebellion. Back in the sixties if anyone in the peace movement had started a Tea Party, the FBI or CIA would have brought it down. I think if these people indeed think they have one political goal, they should call themselves the Conservative Party.

    April 10, 2010 at 8:50 p.m.
  • oldbill, what do you think this says about Michael Cloud? Do you think he comprehends the blatant contradiction he's putting on display? Everyone else seems to.

    April 10, 2010 at 1:26 p.m.
  • Barbara, back in 2007, the Tea Parties (events) meant something and represented revolutionary yet peaceful ideas, but the movement was branded & hijacked by the establishment. Now, it's more about wrangling dissent back into the pen and presenting the existing political party system as the solution, but that's the yoke the people are trying to escape. It's a colossal sham.

    This captures the growing sentiment toward the Tea Party:
    www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2009/ju...

    April 10, 2010 at 1:16 p.m.
  • from what I haver read, and I take this from a quote..."On Feb. 27 last year, small numbers of middle-class taxpayers gathered in 50 American cities to protest President Obama's $786 billion stimulus bill, signed into law without the bother of reading it. And the Tea Party movement was born.

    Organized in less than a week by conservatives on Twitter, the Tea Party movement has grown from political novices into a driving force that is rapidly changing the American political landscape. The fact that no one person is guiding that force seems to encourage some people, and especially the media, to appoint one."

    The Tea Party is actually groups of local groups, if that makes since, with no central govenance nor central leader pulling the strings (no man to ignor behind the curtain).

    They believe in the two party concept and they believe "the worst mistake the movement could make is to replace big-spending Democrats with big-spending Republicans. Many in the movement see the Tea Party as the last chance to save America from financial disaster."

    The local issue, as also seen in other areas, is that politicians like GM try to use the Tea Party as political capitol and this gives the impression, once again, that this is what the Tea Party is all about. I say that this local gathering just lost it's integrity.

    The enemy is within!

    April 10, 2010 at 1:04 p.m.
  • I have been to two tea parties and I never heard anything like that.

    April 10, 2010 at 12:44 p.m.
  • This Tea Party thing appears to be a revolution advocating the overthrow of the American government. The original Boston Tea Party was the first aggressive movement toward violent revolution against a government. Is that what this is as well?

    April 10, 2010 at 12:16 p.m.
  • Once again someone like GM jumps onto the political band wagon and gives the audience an impression that this is what the Tea Party is all about. I could puke on myself thinking about some of the local so-called conservatives that talk the game and vote in other directions then stand up at these events to tickle the ears of their constituents. But come on! Tea Sip party maybe for GM, but I feel violated once again! Think I'll stay home & just curl up in the fetal position and find a happy place instead of listening to her disinformation.

    April 10, 2010 at 11:28 a.m.
  • OOOHHHH bad move guys...not the best choice. Seriously, what were you thinking?!

    April 10, 2010 at 10:15 a.m.
  • The remarks made on this forum encourage me.

    April 10, 2010 at 7:02 a.m.
  • Amen, Amen to the posts below! Geanie Morrison speaking at a Tea Party event? Thank you very much for announcing this in advance. I'll stay at home.

    I can't wait for your next Tea Party e-mail ... I want to cancel off your mailing list.

    April 10, 2010 at 4:33 a.m.
  • BS Spotter.

    Ouch !!!!! And I though I was Morrison's harshest critic.

    April 10, 2010 at 2:41 a.m.
  • What a farce! Morrison/Benkiser and Constitution don't belong in the same paragraph.

    April 10, 2010 at 2:20 a.m.
  • Why hasn't anyone run against her?

    April 10, 2010 at 1:07 a.m.
  • LOL LOL Geanie Morrison? Thank you Tea Party for proving me entertianment.

    April 10, 2010 at 12:50 a.m.