A schoolboy error, thewaywardwind, thanks for the correction
Today, while out and about, I wished that I was Muslim because I really needed an escort to help me with groceries and to hold my Java Monster drink while I attempted to open my car door. I almost left my groceries at the store because I'm such a doofus. Oh, they probably would kick me out of Islam. I'd gripe about the dress code. )..=
KyleC...Actually, I learned the Pledge without the words "under God" included. That didn't happen until June 14, 1954. The change had been pushed for several years, but a joint resolution of Congress made the change official in 1954.
kvje - the roots are definately not in Allah. They are definately not in the God of David or Abraham, nor are they in any other religion. That was done on purpose. Please, oh please, stop with the crazy Christian speak. It's old, over played, and quite frankly obnoxious.
I'm pretty sure that Jesus is cool with all of the other religions of the world. I'm pretty sure that Jesus is not cool with people using his name to preach hatred, or even a dislike, of someone else based on their religion. He is probably very disappointed that people that have nothing to do with a band of terriorists are being treated like terrorists, by people that claim to be his followers.
Re-read the Bible, but only read the red words. You might find some enlightenment. Peace, Love and Goodwill towards man, every man, is what I got out of his 32+/- years on Earth.
kyle- ok ur right about that:) it's not in the constitution. I didn't mean for it to sound that way, but i still stand by my point that our roots and the foundation of this country are in God. definitely not allah....
All religions contain words that can either taken literally or twisted by men to inflict control and destruction over others.
Scriptural infallibility is a bitch.
Now if only some took a leaf out of Thomas Jefferson's Bible...
"We are one nation under God. I don’t think that was an accident on our founding fathers’ part."
C can you remember where "One nation under God" comes from?
It's not the Founding Fathers rather the Pledge of Allegiance which was composed 100+ years after the Constitution in 1892 by Francis Bellamy - a Baptist minister.
Seems the perversion is contagious!
Is Islam a peaceful religion......hmmmm? Maybe we can ask that poor Afghan women (girl) who had her nose and ears chopped off by the Taliban or maybe the women sentence to death by stoning in Iran. Likewise maybe we should ask the Fort Hood shooter or really thousands of these idiots that have spread their death and mayhem around the world.
As someone on this forum often says, "perception is everything in politics." Amen!
History major- how can you say with such certainty that the founding fathers were deists? Bottom line that is a theory. SOME of the key founding fathers were exposed to this way of thinking, but not all of them. Not to mention the rest of the signers and framers and politicians, soldiers and plain ordinary citizens who fought together to gain independence. True, Benjamin Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, Adams, and Madison were exposed to deism, but they were CHRISTIANS FIRST!!!!!! We are one nation under God. I don’t think that was an accident on our founding fathers’ part. Quit perverting our Christian heritage.
I'm quite serious and I stand by my comment. Islam has just as much right to be followed as any other religion in this country - those are the facts. The Constitution is very clear on the matter - God is mentioned exactly zero times, as are the words Jesus, Bible and Ten Commandments. This, quite intentionally, puts Christianity equally in the same bucket as every other belief system. The letters and documents from and between the Founding Fathers shed great light on the sentiments of many of the Founding Fathers and I would suggest reading them in tandem with the Constitution - you will find them most illuminating!
James Madison, From "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785:
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
Muslims have been practicing their faith at the same Burlington Coat factory for over a year... There is a mosque four blocks from Ground Zero. Two blocks must be too close; four blocks no problem...Or maybe it's the 13 story building?
cueroparent, I don't know where you learned history but you are mistaken. One, the Founding Fathers were deists, something that Glen Beck and others would love everyone to forget. None of them were ordained ministers of the Gospels. Secondly, the Constitution protects the religious freedoms of ALL citizens. Yes we are a predominantly Christian nation but the Founding Fathers wanted to prevent us from having state religions. Is building a center a stones throw from Ground Zero and bad choice? Yes. Are they within their rights to build? Yes. You know why? Because it's in the Constitution. Next time read up on your history instead of spewing propaganda.
Read Mormon history - it has never been a smooth process. We have always had problems with religion in this country, i.e. Branch Davidians, Jim Jones, John Brown, and many others.
Religion becomes an issue when it also becomes a threat or it is perceived as a threat - that's the problem, it's not about religion.
KyleC, are you serious? How did they leave God out of the Constitution? Almost all of our founding fathers were ordained ministers of the Gospel. They new the only way our country would survive is by putting God first. These men prayed and sought out God's will for this country. That's why the U.S.A was one of the strongest countries in the world, and still is.
Don't you see, God blessed us with the freedom to serve Him, not other gods. We need christian leaders to stand up for what is right and stop lowing God's standards for this country. We need leaders with the guts that our founding fathers had.
Would our founding fathers of this country, that you live in, allow this "YMCA" go up in the name of Islam? I don't think so!
Thankfully the Founding Fathers were educated men of The Enlightenment who rightly decided to leave God out of the Constitution and protect the belief's of every citizen.
All faiths are welcome in this country and no single faith receives preferential treatment even if it is the majority belief - that was always the intention and that's how it should stay.
PMA guy, I agree 100% what happened to people taking a stand irregardless of public opionion. These cowardly men of God should speak the truth about the matter and for good or bad live with the consequences. The Bible is full of examples of leaders who held a unpopular world view and who suffered for their belief. Now we have those who are only concerned with self preservation and remaining in the community social groups. I wish to God some of these social butterfly's would show some integrity and defend what the Bible teachs.
Just one more point to the pastors who refused to comment about this mosque...COWARDS, ALL!
Shame on you who have forgotten 911. To all of you with short memories, let me remind you that 99% of terroism is conceived and perpetrated by the "religion of peace". We all should keep an eye on our backyard.
I think the location is somewhat inappropriate. But I Also think they have every a right to do it regardless of my opinion. Just because we don't like something someone is doing doesn't mean we can take away their right to do it.
It's a YMCA - type thing. Get over it. Aren't there strip clubs even closer to Ground Zero? I don't see anyone getting mad over those.
I've been to ground zero before. The place is huge and diverse. Most people in the neighborhood don't have a problem with it. . .
Out of respect? To show respect to all the Americans who died, some of which were Muslims, we should not let a religion that did not condone this act, build a center blocks away from where this horrible act was committed. By using that logic, we should never let tourists in to the Pearl Harbor Memorial if they are carrying Japanese-made Sony cameras. After all, the entire Japanese government not only condoned the bombing, I'm pretty sure they had a hand in doing it.Or how about this, how about we vote to ban all Volkswagen dealerships from a three-mile radius of all VFW halls.
Out of respect to the Americans who lost their lives to these crazy men who ran the planes into the WTC's in the name of Islam, I say no. And the time we're not looking at what other countries are doing is when something like 9/11 will happen again.
Yea, this country was founded on freedom, but it was founded on Christian beliefs. That's one reason why most Islamic religions hate what the U.S.A stands for.
Yea, were in Victoria, what does it have to do with us? Well, what if those planes crashed in down town Victoria. How would you feel about Islamic leaders wanting to build a mosque two blocks from ground zero in Victoria TX. I think if those religious leaders really care about the victims and family's of the victims, they'll find another place to build.
KyleC, Thank you. Old geezers take longer to teach.
What you are describing is the ability to remove your own comments - the red icon and remove label are only visible to the user who created the post
Could someone please tell me what the Red circle with a minus sign next to my name on an earlier post means. Then says "Remove". I thought long and hard to make my post clear and not offend.
Thanks for your time.
Once again, the right wingers play on our fear and our ignorance. Once again they are successful. Right wingers love to scream in fear about stuff they don't understand. They love to cry and wave the flag. They want to take back their country. That means they want it to be like it was in the days of Leave it to Beaver, where all families were straight and had two cars and mom stayed at home.They just can't think beyond their 12 year old emotions.
"Ground zero debate proves to be elusive topic in Crossroads" Elusive? On what planet? When 89% of your readers who care enough to vote vote "NO" on the question of whether a mosque belongs at ground zero, how do you find this elusive?
I have always hoped that my neighbors and fellow citizens would try to treat everyone with dignity and respect. Many of us swore an oath to "Uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of Amarica". This includes all of the Bill of Rights. There was a reason the 1st Amendment protects our must precious freedom. Our laws are not a buffet where you only follow the ones that you think are important.
Hearing people speak or reading people's quotes on this subject makes me wanna punch kittens. Hearing people say the first thing that pops into their head without regard to facts or reason makes my head want to explode.
-This is not a victory mosque. It's a YMCA.-It's modeled after the Jewish Center that's in the neighborhood, even using their Ribbi for advice.-It will not even have a mosque, as non-muslims are not allowed in mosques. It will have a prayer area (similar to the chaples you see at the hospitals and airports, although it will be a little bigger)-It will have a 9-11 memorial in it denouncing the bombers and memorializing the heroes.-It's in NYC, not Victoria or anywhere else. let them decide on what they want to do with their neighborhood. . .
Newt Gingrich is a right wing fascist and will never see this religion fairly. What ever happened to rose colored glass. I believe america needs to heal and realize there is beauty in all people.
IF the builders of the mosque truly have a positive agenda of using the site to help build relations between the Islamic religion and America, then let them prove it by using the ground to build something to apologize to the American people for the terrorism inflicted upon innocent victims in the name of Islam. Let them build a Museum to honor the victims of 9/11.
The fact that the new mosque is to be named Cordoba is intended to be a slap in the face of non-Muslims. According to an article by Newt Gingrich, "it refers to Cordoba, Spain – the capital of Muslim conquerors who symbolized their victory over the Christian Spaniards by transforming a church there into the world’s third-largest mosque complex."
I can't believe that the Advocate reporters failed to do enough reseach that would allow them to report on the underlying issues behind the building of this mosque. In addition, they failed to report on the countless number of mosques already in existence in the area. These are relavent factors - and very revealing as to the intentions of those who would build the mosque there. The above-mentioned article by Newt Gingrich goes on to report that "more than 100 mosques already exist in New York City". So, one would have to assume that there is an unspoken agenda behind the building of the mosque near the 9/11 site.
(Mr. Gingrich's entire article can be found at http://www.newt.org/newt-direct/newt-... )
If all faiths are represesnted I am fine with it since all religions died on 9/11. If there will only be a mosque in this so called then I say NO WAY! The name "Islamic center" tells me that no other religons are welcome so to me that means it will be a mosque only. Let them find another area to build. Miles away from ground zero! Maybe there should be but one shrine to the dead of 9/11 with no religious affiliation. He who goes there prays in their own way.
It was an interesting comment even out of context. Your experiences would make nice blog posts or a book or two. =D
I removed my comment since the original comment was also removed - I like to keep things in context :-)
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
Did anyone see the interview where the Iman's wife accused the U.S. of being worse than al-kaeda? How about the terrorist organization Hamas coming out and advising that the mosque must be built and that it must be built at this location. This issue has been hashed and rehashed several times on different blogs and the overwhelming majority are squarely against it.
In regards to the Mosque...Let's worry more about getting our troops home, the over spilling of government spending, the horrible health care bill they are shoving down our throats...etc...etc...BTW, Who are WE to judge what another group does...look at our kind over on their land at this very moment, we shouldn't be there at all fighting a war that's getting us NOWHERE! Our government worries too much about other countries rather than focusing on the HORRIBLE condition OUR VERY OWN COUNTRY IS IN!!! There are far more things to worry about rather than a group of people wanting to have a prayer site. So what where it is?!?! There's more to life than worrying about things such as this. Isn't that the whole basis of our Nation, FREEDOM? But, at the rate our WONDERFUL President and all his clowns are at, will only slip further and further from that right, OUR RIGHT to choose anything that goes on in our very own lives. The whole basis of our (constitutional) rights are being torn to shreds...It's very sad! I feel so bad for my children and ESPECIALLY theirs when that time comes! Us Americans need to focus our efforts on much BIGGER things than this!!!! I'm as AMERICAN as they come, but this is CHILDISH! YES, a very TRAGIC thing happened 600ft from where they want to build, but is doesn't take away from ones right to practice their religion and FREEDOM, they have a right to choose too! PERIOD!!!!
These particular Muslims want tolerance. Let the Muslims build the mosque at Ground Zero and then let a synagogue be built right next door to it. Then we'll find out how tolerant Islam is.
I AM A AMERICAN BORN AND RAISED. I know what America stands for and I know that not all Muslims are bad. I feel that if they allow everyone to boycott this religion then what does our constitution stand for. Our 1st amendment is freedom of religion, press, or expression. If they allow people to stop the building of that religious site then that opens the door for many more people to be persecuted for their religion. Then that would make us no better than the attackers on 9/11. Everyone is worried about the burial site of the 9/11 victims but no one seems too concerned about our military personel that was laid to rest in Arlington National Cemetary and are now lost because of poor record keeping. My god these soldiers were killed in the line of duty protecting our rights to freedom and the constitution.