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jdztyler.....have you been to Victoria lately? Your description pretty much summed it up, I don't think a symphony can perform miracles.
Well, Zero, since everybody will die eventually, why don't we close all the emergency rooms and do away with the fire department/EMS? Look at the money that would save. I guess you could fund your precious orchestra with that money.
It's not about the Bach Festival; it's about the budget for the entire state. Like the man said, "A million here, a million there, pretty soon you're talking real money." The Bach Festival and symphony provide entertainment for how many people? A couple hundred per performance, maybe? If you think the symphony and Bach Fest are underfunded, I'm sure they'll be glad to take a check from you and Theaterman. I would remind you that the taxpayers are under no obligation to provide entertainment for a relative few people.
By the way, Theaterman...I'm glad you like the "moniker." However, it isn't windy -- that's a term of endearment from my many friends on this forum. The user name is taken from my all-time favorite song. I love both the song and the message. I take no offense from your making fun of it.
Regarding the football thing. I DID say that I haven't seen any statistics lately but that back when I was in high school, football did indeed make enough to support for the other sports. I don't know how much they paid Bum Phillips to be the coach, but the budget was ample for the requirements. We didn't have to pay Wade to be our quarterback/middle linebacker. He played for free. This was back in 1964-65. Back then, our band and drill team didn't go begging for money, either. They were fully funded by the school district. Of course, the football team, band, drill team et al traveled to away games in big yellow school busses. There were no expensive charters. That saved a few bucks.
@Zero, Exactly my point... I have no clue what the actual numbers are, but would guess that at most the state might give 10000.00 to the Bach Festival and 10000.00 to the Victoria Symphony. Add those 2 totals together and you lose 1/2 of an ems nurses salary, if even that much. @windy (good moniker), EMS services are totally seperate from ER, which is run by the respective hospital. Hospitals are profit making businesses. also, you need to supply facts when you say football brings in money..... coaches salaries, plus maintenance of stadiums, plus bussing of students to away games, plus uniform expenses, plus insurance of all aspects of the game, from venue liability, to personal injury.... plus equipment costs, plus etc.... could never be offset by the tickets sold for 6 home games at a stadium that seats 10000 people. The coaches salaries alone would not be covered by ticket sales, much less any of the other expenses. I would think Odessa Permian turns a profit, as do some of the other power football schools int he state, but the bulk of high school football is a loss leader to entice people to move into a school district to try to get attention for the education provided by said districts. Again I think football is great but lets not lie about the real costs of football vs. the meager costs of having an orchestra program at a high school, which would be the cost of having an instructor, the cost of some larger instruments that students cannot afford, i.e. tubas, or baritone sax, etc. Unlike uniforms that get replaced yearly, these instruments last for decades. Maybe some travel costs to go to UIL sanctioned competitions etc. I find it ironic that band students are always going door to door selling things to be able to fund their ventures.... never have I seen a football player going door to door to be able to pay for the cost of their uniforms. Double standard?
Thank you for making sense in this. All I am reading on this site is BOO WHOO Mess. It is sad that a bunch of men in their 50's 60' and 70's are complaining, whining, and crying like 5 year olds.
Windy: "You might DIE if there's a cut in EMS services." Hah.
Everyone WILL die eventually. Its a fact of life. Another fact old Windy forgets is that the biggest single drain on public budgets is salary, health and retirement benefits for public employees. Entitlement spending dwarfs everything else. Spending for the arts is a tiny drop in the fire hose of public spending.
I'd like to see old Windy come up with a real analysis of how many firefighters you could get by axing the Bach Festival from the budget. Without that, Windy's just blowing smoke.
The types of "art" supported by tax dollars are those not supported through the public with commercial ventures. Do away with public support with all "art" programs during all economic times.
Theaterman...I comprehend what I read just fine, thank you. You said the cuts should be across the board and I took you at your word. If you didn't mean essential services should face the ax, you should say that.
It isn't the responsibility for the taxpayers to provide entertainment during difficult financial times. The people can support orchestras and operas and ballet companies by buying tickets and making private donations if they choose. When the economy is booming and state and local budgets are flush, I don't have a problem with some of the surplus going to the arts. When there is a multi-billion dollar shortfall for the state, like there is in Texas, the money that is availble must go to the essentials first. Fire and police departments don't charge for service. They must be financed by tax dollars.
Yeah, live music IS more enjoyable than CDs, but I CAN enjoy recorded music, but I can't do without the live providers at the ER if I need'em. By the way, if you show up at the ER with a heart attack, you won't have to wait in line behind people with a cold. We just better hope the ER isn't closed due to lack of funding because some of the pie was given to an orchestra and there wasn't enough to spread to the hospital district.
You complained that the budget for arts in schools is the first to be cut and sports never seem to be threatened. I would suggest to you that sports -- especially football -- brings in more money than is spent in support. I haven't seen statistics lately, but way back when I was in school, high school football was responsible for covering the cost for most of the sports teams fielded by the school. Football does not cause a drain on the budget.
Don't worry Theatreman, don't you know everyone will have healthcare courtesy of President Obama? I don't know if symphony s pay unemployment insurance or not, but hey! People can draw unemployment for at least two years now!
All is well in the land of milk and honey.
And the band played on....
At the waywardwind.... Did I say to cut critical services? No. Did i say to cut back everything across the board? Yes. It is called reading comprehension, you might want to look it up. Cutting one salaried employee would not halt the entire EMS system. Cutting funding to one symphony in the state that is teetering on the brink of failure in a down economy couls easily shut the entire program down. Those unemployed could then clog the ER with common colds due to the fact that they cannot afford a doctor anymore, then I still die from my heart attack due to all the misuse of the system.But I guess they could all bring their instruments to the ER and seranade me with a ad hoc version of Adagio for Strings.... which is much better live than any reproduced fromat you listed. The dynamics of recordings and reproduction equipment cannot compare to the real thing, for any genre of music, from Tejano, to Symphony.
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The arts provide the venue that inspires creativity, kindles the embers of hope and drives a society forward. It is not the dessert, but the meat and potatoes of successful cultures. Cut the arts and fewer and fewer businesses will want to move to the area, our people will starve for the lack of sustenance for their spirits and we will live in a squalid and crime-ridden, two dimensional hell.
Theatreman...If you have a heart attack, would you rather someone call 9-1-1 for EMS or for a couple of flute players from the symphony? There are other sources of good music -- CDs, tapes, YouTube, radio, etc. You might DIE if there's a cut in EMS services. The cuts cannot be equal across the board. Some things are simply more important than others to the health and safety of the community.
Lets move our "Texan of the year" into an apartment that costs $20,000 a month. He is such a great leader and an example of frugal government that the republakets claim to be. How the voters could have put this fraud back in office is beyond comprehension. Tax hikes and property tax increases will pay for all of this !!!
It is not a question of raising property taxes either. I know a disabled man and his family here in Victoria on a fixed income who bought a home. Within 4 years, Victoria raised his taxes by 150%. Then threatened to take his house away and auction it off if he couldn't come up with the back taxes. Needless to say, the man borrowed the money at 18% to pay the back taxes. He has sold almost everything he has to pay the taxes. So I think raising property taxes and or property Values won't solve the problem.
Why is when something is cut, it is always the Arts that go first. When programs are cut from schools, the arts are always on the chopping block, while football (which I don't think should be cut), or any other sport is never on the chopping block. It seems to me if things should be cut, it should be across the board, not cherry picking the targets least likely to put up a fight. Most of the artists in the symphony, do not live in Victoria, and travel to as many as 7 different symphonies in cities in TX. If funding is cut for all of those symphonies, where are those people going to work? Why is it suddenly OK to eliminate these jobs that are in a way, subsidised by the taxpayer, but not any other job that is subsidized..... like many other programs are.... I will not go into naming just a few because I think it is unfair for any one group to suffer, the cuts should be across the board.I will say that most of these programs would be non profit organizations, but not all.
how about cutting the elected officials salaries in half. The same offices who's salaries have increased by 40% in the last 10 years. Almost all areas of the economy are suffering. Why not these people too. Just because you may hear them say,"we won't increase our salaries this year". This means nothing. How about "cut our salaries by 30%.
I love fine music as much an the next guy, but when funding decisions have to be made regarding the distribution of tax dollars during a time of budget crisis, I'm afraid that symphony orchastras, ballet theaters and the like will have to take a back seat to police, fire and EMS services, road maintainence, hospitals and other health care facilities and possibly food banks. The pie is only so large and only a certain number of slices can be taken before the pie is gone. If arts programs cannot be sustained by private donations and ticket sales, they will have to suffer. If I have to choose between closing a theater or a fire station, the decision will be an easy one for me.
That's a good starting place to cut!