BigJ, as far as why Gov. Goodhair keeps getting re-elected, IMO, that is due to two things. Voter apathy, and not a good alternative.
Bill White seems like a ok guy, well except that he is a gun control and sanctuary city is a good thing believer, that might work in Austin, but IMO, the rest of Texas won't agree.
So we are back to the fact that a good alternative is not on the ballot.
"With 92-percent of the precincts reporting, Arpaio had 55 percent of the vote to Saban's 42-percent.
Arpaio has been in office for 16 years and never faced a major re-election challenge."http://www.abc15.com/content/news/ele...
Seems the same way for the Maricopa County Sheriff s race.
And I wish a good candidate would run against Perry.
What about Rick Perry?
True , for the last comment. If sheriff Joe is such a bad guy, why does he keep getting reelected?
I guess, maybe, because, he gets reelected by all those northern transplants from the north east that used to be liberals until they retired in Arizona. Or because his ideas make sense?
Who knows, his ideas work and he keeps getting reelected.
The assumption and discussions would not even be going this far if the problem was fixed at the source. The Border. Put up the wall/fence. Problem fixed! Discussion over. You want to be here then be here legally. Go through the right gate at the fence!
Hispanics are worried that the police will "profile" them because their skin is dark and they don't want to be questioned as to their citizenship. I agree with them that's not something a citizen should have to fear. HOWEVER, it is the people coming north across the border illegally who are to blame. If those people would stay home, there would be no Arizona illegal alien law. I don't see these people protesting against the flood of illegals coming up from Mexico. Instead, the illegals are welcomed by many in the Mexican-American community. Some, whom I believe are citizens, on this forum write with glee that they want the illegals to come and help breed the hispanics into the majority -- ignoring the fact that their cousins from the south aren't supposed to be here any more than a burglar is supposed to be in your home. It is the hispanics who have started the "us vs. them" mentality in this issue. Instead of supporting their nation, they support the citizens of another nation against their own. Citizenship may indeed be an accident of birth, but it is a fact. The people coming in illegally were born as citizens of a foreign country and they have NO RIGHT to come here without proper documentation. Why do people who are American citizens not understand that? Why do people who are American citizens support the illegal invasion of their country by these illegals?
joe araipo, i doubt the man can read, because he seems to have issues with constitutional rights.
do a google search for 'joe araipo corruption'.
If a legal Hispanic citizen veiws this as harassment, then they do not want what is best for America. We, as Americans, should want the laws that protect us to be followed, and willingly aid the law to make sure it happens. If that means going through a little extra trouble by making sure that they carry their papers on themselves at all times (which most people do anyway) for a little while, they should not be crying about it, but embracing it. They should appreciate being here and do whatever it takes to keep America strong.
If I lived in Mexico and was required to have my papers with me at all times, I would follow the laws of that Country and have those papers with me at all times. There would never be a question in my mind as to if I were being harassed if I was asked to show the authorities my papers. Such rules are put in place for a reason.
How many seconds does it take for one to grab theirs before they go out the door? No one should drive without their DL and most carry that with them all the time.
what a beautiful country we live in. anyone can go out and protest / discuss any law, any issue.
i applaud these people protesting so that their voices may be heard.
LEGAL HISPANIC RESIDENTS of THIS NATION and their rights. I do not want the "state" to stop and harass them.Don't they love the United States and care enough to protect this great nation so it does not become like Mexico? Do they not see that our nation is at risk, and everyone must work together to stop what is happening, so if they don't break the law, they should not be stopped or harassed, it is simple. God Bless America and the people that love her.
Be sure and read the Articles at the end of the page
some interesting reading for you all. some will like others may choke on it
I think this would have been a perfect time for Border Patrol and local authorities to be checking "citizenship" while these people marched. Wonder how many would have protested then?
You can spin the truth till the cows come home, but the fact of the matter is that the people who are against this law are constantly skewing the facts about what the law actually says. They keep pounding the drum that people are going to be pulled over and asked for their papers simply because of the way that they look, like in Nazi Germany. If this doesn't sound like fear and dishonesty mongering, I don't know what does. These people are not dealing in facts, which at the end of the day is all that matters. You can theorize and speculate all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that this law was made because Arizonans are being killed by people who should not have been in the country at all, people are being kidnapped left and right by drug cartels, and the state is broke and cannot afford to support illegal aliens. These are the facts of the whole situation and when people's lives are at stake, there is no time for dishonesty and fear mongering.
I will post a blog in a few hours. No, this is not about fear and dishonestly. This is about anger and a sense of history.
You forget that states have the right to create laws for the public good. Peace officers are already supposed to hand turn over suspected illegal aliens to ICE, this law is an extension of that. They are not responsible for border security, but they are responsible for public good. Don't forget also that 75 percent of the state's citizens wanted this law in the first place (latest gallop poll). The government is supposed to do the will of the people, not the will of a group of misinformed malcontents. As I've said before, the arguments that I have heard against this law are not based on fact, but rather on fear and dishonesty.
I am not ingoring you. Let me be short on this. There is a difference between enforcing laws granted only to the federal government and border sercurity.
I don't know if anyone has kept up with the news lately, but the mainstream (lamestream) media is really spinning this thing for all it's worth. The coverage of this issue has been downright dishonest and people are making up their minds about it because of the misinformation that is being presented by such media outlets as the New York Times, MSNBC, CBS and NBC. They are basically playing the race card all day long and telling people that it's going to be like Nazi Germany. The truth of the matter is, law enforcement officers in Arizona cannot stop a person specifically because they suspect they are illegal. The officer has to already be engaged with the person because they committed a violation. Those that are suspected of racial profiling will risk a pretty big lawsuit. Bottom line is that the opposition to this law is usually grossly misinformed and doesn't have a counter solution. It's desperate on the border and something has to be done.
Where are the bleeding hearts and "civil rights" people when it comes to OUR people? The citizens of the US. You know the ones who have suffered rape, beatings, drive bys, shootings, kidnapping, assualt, burglary, robbery, and many other crimes done (and convicted) by illegal immigrants. Let's all boo hoo for the criminals. Whether you have commited one of these crimes here or not, if you are here illegally you are a criminal. Meanwhile, our citizens who have faced this wave of illegals are left out to dry. Good going bleeding hearts...lets not offend the criminals and throw it in US citizens faces that oh well they can break the law but you can't.
Writein..."I am NOT talking about Illegals, I am talking about LEGAL HISPANIC RESIDENTS of THIS NATION and their rights. I do not want the "state" to stop and harass them."
Consider that nobody wants citizens harassed by the police. Consider also that this wouldn't be a problem if Mexican citizens had not not come across the border illegally in epidemic numbers in the first place. Mexican nationals are the cause of the need for the law. I find it interesting that the people who may suffer some inconvenience under this law don't seem to want the law to force the illegals to go home or prevent them from entering the country. They seem to support some nefarious "right" of these people to come across the border with no consequenses.
"MEXICO CITY – Gunmen drove up to a soccer field and shot five men to death as they played early Monday near the Pacific coast resort of Acapulco, police in southern Mexico said.
It was unclear why the five men were playing so late, but the region of Guerrero state is often so hot and humid by day by day that athletes wait until night to compete. Many people also work unusual hours in the local tourist industry.
The men were playing in the hamlet of Xaltianguis, on the northern outskirts of Acapulco, when gunmen in three vehicles pulled up beside the field and opened fire."
Wow, it keeps getting more scary ever day when you read about the random violence going on south of the border.
Drug dealers have no qualms in killing ANYONE, whether they are children. women or some friends playing soccer.
Who knew? I never knew some of this stuff. It's an interesting read:
So which is it? That the states can enforce federal laws or they can't?
Austria united with Germany on March 12, 1938, so technically Austria was a part of Germany.
It was more than just a technicality. Hitler was greeted in Linz and Vienna with delirious applause! Austrians were over-represented in the Gestapo and the terror apparatus more generally. Obviously, I'm aware that there were also some Austrians who heartily detested the Nazis. The events of March 12, 1938, marked the culmination of historical cross-national pressures to unify the German populations of Austria and Germany under one nation. However, the 1938 Anschluss, regardless of its popularity, was enacted by Germany. Earlier, Hitlerian Germany had provided support for the Austrian National Socialist Party (Austrian Nazi Party) in its bid to seize power from Austria's Austrofascist leadership. Fully devoted to remaining independent but amidst growing pressures, the chancellor of Austria, Kurt Schuschnigg, tried to hold a plebiscite.
Although he expected Austria to vote in favour of maintaining autonomy, a well-planned internal overthrow by the Austrian Nazi Party of Austria's state institutions in Vienna took place on March 11, prior to the vote. With power quickly transferred over to Germany, the Wehrmacht troops entered Austria to enforce the Anschluss. The Nazis held a plebiscite within the following month, where they received 99.73% of the vote. No fighting ever took place and the strongest voices against the annexation, particularly Fascist Italy, France and the United Kingdom (the "Stresa Front"), were powerless or, in case of Italy, appeased. The Allies were, on paper, committed to upholding the terms of the Treaty of Versailles, which specifically prohibited the union of Austria and Germany
Just find this interesting that his mother came from country that was against the Untied States in World War II and he brings it up to show how he understands people coming to America.
"Truman's mother is an immigrant, too, he told them.
"My mother came to this country from war-torn Europe - from Austria.""
BigJ, One Question,
One the other thread about this topic you posted
"1) I have so many issues with the law, that I would have to write a blog posting on this. I think the law is just another plan to derail the President in 2012. Second, I believe the state has not authority to enforce border laws as subscribe in the Constitution. Third, I believe the Governors of Texas and AZ are cowardly in shifting blame instead of using their own duties as their state’s commander-in-chief to use the National Guard and Militia."
My question is,
If as you state, "I believe the state has not authority to enforce border laws as subscribe in the Constitution.", then how can you in the next sentence say, "Third, I believe the Governors of Texas and AZ are cowardly in shifting blame instead of using their own duties as their state’s commander-in-chief to use the National Guard and Militia."
So are we conclude that the responsibility is with the federal government, but the governors should call out the militia and/or national guard to enforce federal law in their state. Which would directly contradict your statement that the states have no authority because it is a constitutional duty of the federal government.
At first you say that the states cannot enforce federal law, then call the governors of Az and TX cowards for not doing what you just said they couldn't.
So which is it? They can't or they can?
AtticCThe law is already on the books at the federal level and has not been found unconstitutional. The opinion of one judge is just that, an opinion. I have heard a lot of reputable lawyers analyze this law and the majority of them draw the same conclusion. It is not unconstitutional. This can be spun either way, but the fact of the matter is that the law is only enforcing federal law.
B2BM, we are all Americans - I think we all love this country and want the best for it and our children. Yeah, we have some quarrels and issue - name a family that doesn't.
What about the "Might makes Right" mentailty from the other side?
rollinstone "I have a friend who is hispanic. A couple of months ago he told me how angry he was at being stopped for speeding. He was sure it was because he was Mexican. He said what really made him angry was the DPS officer was also Mexican. He said he told the officer "what about la raza, man." I laughed."
That attitude is at the heart of all the problems and all of the dislike and mistrust. For some reason, some people think that they have special privileges "because" of the color of their skin.
You said that the idea has no merit. Then I would urge you to listen to Conservative Judge Andrew Napolitano and Libertain Candidate Bob Barr.
Bob Barr's comments.http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles...
The idea that this law is unconstitutional has no merrit whatsoever. The law passed in Arizona, which incidentally has 75 percent of the state's residence supporting it (latest gallop poll), upholds federal laws that are already in place. This law is already on the books at the federal level, Arizona is just the first to try to uphold it on the state level because the federal government is not doing it's job. The law clearly states that if an officer suspects that a person is illegally in the country during the course of a routine violation, that they are allowed to check that person's background. The law is clear that the officer has to be engaged in the act of admonishing someone for a violation such as a traffic stop. This notion that officers can pull people over for just looking like an illegal alien is just more fear rhetoric being driven by the open borders crowd.
John Lara.Other than your first paragraph. I agree with you.
Traditionally; Latinos, Tejanos, Hispanics or Mexican Americans do not engage in racial discrimination. Especially, when it comes to our execution of the public trust.
If, the law is racially discriminatory towards Mexicans Americans, you can expect Mexican American Officers to enforce the law down to the last letter.
The problem is not that officers are racist; just that they will be put in the position of being racist, to enforce the law.
I have a friend who is hispanic. A couple of months ago he told me how angry he was at being stopped for speeding. He was sure it was because he was Mexican. He said what really made him angry was the DPS officer was also Mexican. He said he told the officer "what about la raza, man." I laughed.
I am NOT talking about Illegals, I am talking about LEGAL HISPANIC RESIDENTS of THIS NATION and their rights. I do not want the "state" to stop and harass them.
That provision of the 14th amendment was added to nullify the Dred Scott decision and make all the former slaves and their off spring citizens of the United States. It was not intended to grant citizenship to illegal aliens.
The 14 amendment SHOULD LEFT ALONE!!!!!!!!!!! ANYONE born within the United States should be and shall be consider a citizen.
The law targets persons with like appearance and customs to illegal aliens, who are questioned by officers; this is “de facto discrimination against American citizens of a particular group in the execution of the law by officers“.
No law, has the right to discriminate against Americans because of color or life. To do so, would mean that the law is unconstitutional.
Those that claim they support “rule of law”, yet embrace an unconstitutional law, are actually in support of mob rule. They support constitutional law when it serves their interest, but “act” against it when it does not. Rule of law, needs to be respected for all American citizens, especially when your argument is that others are acting outside of it.
Having been made aware of this, those that still work support the Arizona law, are acting against the United States Constitution. They are threatening the civil liberties, that they claim others of doing; and should be seen promoting an action that is a direct threat to the Constitution of the United States of America.
Now that I have had a chance to hear a lot of rhetoric that came out of this farce, I come to the conclusion that the people there are only out to stir up fear out of ignorance while not knowing the facts. The bottom line is, the security of this country is of the utmost importance, and we need to know who is here illegally. It appalls me that people from such Latin organizations such as LULAC can't even give a straight answer when asked if they believe that we should have open borders. It's not that hard a question, yes or no. They also have a hard time saying whether or not they believe an illegal alien should be deported if found. Why don't they just come out and say that they don't want a border instead of the silly song and dance. It really gets under my skin when I see Hispanic people, such as myself, playing the race card like this. Judging by a lot of the comments that I heard on the video, the people involved had no idea about the law itself. It also really irks me to see pastors from my church getting involved in this. Bottom line, this is not a human rights issue, this is a question of our nation's sovereignty and security. I wish people would stop the spin and open their eyes.
born2Bme...Yes, the Fourteenth Amendment defines who is a citizen. This is why the Fourteenth needs to be amended to require that at least one of the biological parents be a citizen of the US for the kid to be granted citizenship at birth.
I understand your concerns and they are valid concerns. I'm not familiar enough with what is going on in Arizona, politically, to argue that point with you. I do, however, feel that this is getting all blown out of proportion.This is an issue that will always bring this kind of reaction because of those involved do not want to lose what they worked so hard for. People want to play the race card because it is easy and it usually shuts down the opponent. This is not about race, it's about the safety and prosperity of this Country. It just so happens that, in this area, the ones breaking this law are mostly from south of the border, and it will be those people that are singled out because of it.The ones coming into this Country illegally are the ones causing this problem and they should not cry about laws passed against it. It is unfortunate that some innocent citizens, and people here legally, will also have to suffer because of it. There is no other way to check to see who is who except to ask for proper ID.And this excuse of people accidently forgetting their papers at home, doesn't wash when they know they need them. No matter how this turns out, the Country is in a uproar about this on both sides. If it is not handled legally, it will be handled by vigilante groups and that is something that nobody wants. So, it is time to pass some laws that takes care of this in the least dangerous way. Is this the best law? I don't know, but if it gets the ball rolling, then it is worth it.
I must apologize to you for wasting my time with an useless person. I have a VERY STRONG FEELING about this as well.
Arizona made this bill public and passed for purely political and social gain. The Governor of that state was losing in the polls for GOP Primary. Second, as Governor, she herself did NOT do her duty as commander-in-chief of state militia and National guard to stop killing on the border. Third, the fanfare is a political play book against President Obama during 2010 midterm elections.
As an African-American, I know how it is like to be on the receiving end of racial profiling. I do not want the police to do the same to anyone else.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
I have a strong feeling that this law is to accomplish two things.
Number 1, it will deter more immigrants from coming to Arizona, and get some of the ones that are there, to leave on their own.
Number 2, it will get the government moving on something that they just weren't interested in starting.
It's just a starting point, and I think we both agree that there has to be a starting point. I just don't think it is going to be as bad as you seem to think it will. There are not enough cops to do what you think. The cops do not want to draw unwanted attention to themselves by badgering citizens, or those here legally.
If you have noticed that in Texas, most of the cars that are stopped now, are Latinos. I've been traveling a lot between El Campo and Victoria lately, and I'd say that 80% of the stops I see are Latinos and the only ones that I see made to get out of the cars and stand in the ditches are Latinos. It's just one of those facts that cannot be ignored. I think it is already happening here, it's just not as public.Arizona could have done this without all of the fanfare and been within their rights to do so. They made it so public for a reason. It's a law meant to deter, or scare away as many as they can.Of course, this is all just my opinion and I have no facts to back any of it up.
It seems you can’t comprehend the Amendments. You need to read the 4th and the 14th Amendments again.
“Now if we show they're illegal, we can actually arrest them and put them in our jails," -Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio
Yes, I admit you are right. But I was referring to Hispanic Americans and their rights. Second, Those who are not citizens are protected by the 4th amendment.
My problem is the law have the potential of unlawful searches of Hispanics-Americans especially those who are first, second, or third generation American.
Here's the other half of Section 1:
Section 1. "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
Doesn't that describe who is a citizen and who is not? Who is legal and who is not?
I know what I am talking about. Unlike you, I do not spend my time cut and pasteing from Socialist websites like The World Socialist Website to engage character assassinations.
Your question have no legs because there isn’t anything in the Constitution that declare who is illegal. Second, you are putting words in my mouth, I am not defending Illegals in this country. My concern, let me repeat, MY CONCERN is the civil rights and civil liberties for HISPIANIC AMERICANS, the 4th AMENDMENT, and the 14th AMENDMENT. GET THAT THOUGH YOUR HEAD before suggesting I am against the constitution.
However I am against the fear-mongering, code words, and the “Us vs. them“, “My way” mentality from CONSERVATIVES !!!!!!!!!! GET THAT THOUGH YOUR HEAD !!!!!!!!!!!
You said, “We need to get race out of this discussion and talk about constitutional law.”
Here is the 4th Amendment.
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized”
Here is the 14th Amendment.Half of Section 1. “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. “
More you and other local conservatives moan, scream, fearmonger and chest beat, the more I move towards with the liberal side.
now children you be nice to one another! remember the rule about the living room!
Mr. Schustereit, I wholeheartedly agree with your post.
You say "Racial bigotry is a sin and I hate it". So is acting like you are better than me or anyone else is a sin as well.
YES MASTA, ME”S CAN READ. You may think I’m stupid, Kenneth, BUT DON’T TALK TO ME like I am. I read the law . How come they rush a SECOND LAW to Correct the FIRST ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!! ANSWER ME Kenneth!!!!!!!!!
I do not care if you are King of the World Just because you have a conservative opinion, doesn’t mean you have all the sense of the world.
Please do not try boosting and chest beat your way out of this. You whine, cry, and moan about things, but you and other conservative big shots on here refuse to run for office, etc. A Cut and Paste job does not equal research.
Let me “Cut and Paste” my own statement I made towards Citizen on a similar topic thread.
Here are my reasons why I am against the Law.1) I believe the state has no authority to enforce border laws as subscribe in the Constitution.
2) I believe the Governors of Texas and AZ are cowardly in shifting blame instead of using their own duties as their state’s commander-in-chief to use the National Guard and Militia on the borders. 3) In the law it says “ Reasonable suspicion” . Hispanic-Americans among the border have strong family ties with those across the border. Some of them have thick Mexican accent and cultural habits. How can a Police officer know which is which? .
4) It goes against the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the 4th Amendment, and the 14th Amendment of the Constitution.
And……oh that’s MR BIGJ to you.
Well said. I too would like to see what books zorro gets his facts from.
Zorro writes, gyro,
Your romantic notion of Texas history is akin to a child's belief in Santa Claus.
Funny when last I looked gyro's facts are right on the mark. Read a history book and take a look at Austin and the original 300 colonists he brought in. The Mexican government in the 1820s wanted American colonists to create a buffer zone in Texas to prevent American encroachment. That's fact not fiction. Sure there were some that came over illegally, but those first colonists were 100% legal. Don't bash someone because you can't face the historical truth.
You love to open your mouth and chest beat while doing NOTHING about the problem. The law is UNFAIR because it only, ONLY, targets Illegals and those who look like them. It does NOT target the business that Hires them in the first place.
I have traveled all over the world for the past 11 years. My wife and I spent years going through the visa and citizen process for her. We have paid our dues and did it legally. It was not easy but we did it. Living in this country is a privilege, not a right. Illegal is illegal regardless of the reason. I wouldn't expect to be able to sneak into any country in the world without being arrested by local police. Nor would I expect them to make me a citizen or afford me anything other than basic human rights while I served my jail sentence before being deported.
There is no argument that negates the fact that laws have been broken. Period. Sneaking into this country endangers the people who have to protect it and the people trying to get in - and the people breaking the laws provide money to an entire system of criminals that profit from suffering and misery moving them across the border in horrible conditions.
My family has a ranch and have had their house and barns broken into numerous times. Things have been stolen. Trash is left all over the place from people passing through. Property has been vandalized. How would you sleep at night if you had the same situation? How can ANY argument or discussion point offset what my family goes through on any given week?
Illegal immigration is a plague and a disease in any society. I don't see why I had to follow the rules and pay my dues while 11 million other people didn't have to. I don't care what their reasons are. They made their own situations knowing the potential ramifications long before they took the first step over the border. They have the right to be treated with dignity but they have no right to be here until they go through the same process millions of LEGAL immigrants go through each year.
I don't think anyone should be given citizenship for being here unless their parents are legal residents. Take away that incentive and you solve a lot of the problems.
“The federal government is abdicating its duty on the border. Arizona politicians are pandering to public fear,” The Arizona Republic said in a full-page editorial. “The result is a state law that intimidates Latinos while doing nothing to curb illegal immigration.”
Arizona Republic Front Page Editorial
Well folks, perhaps LULAC should change its acronym to LUIAC, League of United Illegal Alien Criminals. The ending words of their title reads "American Citizens." Clearly a misnomer, given their present alliance. At some point they made the transition to championing the imagined "rights" of the Spanish speakers who so brazenly flaunted their flag and illegal status by their shameless demonstrations across our nation. I assumed, and obviously mistakenly so, that members of this group were enlightened and educated, and could decipher the verbiage contained in the immigration bill. The bill in Arizona makes it quite clear that a police officer has the right to ask for proof of citizenship, when someone is apprehended in the COMMISION OF A CRIME. Get it straight, folks. If one of your 'compadres' from across the border is caught robbing, raping, murdering, cutting someone's head off, or any of the various and sundry crimes attributed to them on an almost daily basis, you bet those Arizona officers should ask for any and all proof.
Shame on Hispanic Americans who are more than a generation removed from that violent, third-world country that is Mexico and are still clinging to their "roots." It is an embarrasment to the world, and one has to wonder why anyone would want to take pride in a land and a culture that is becoming synonymous with drugs, murder, kidnapping, prostitution, the murder of police officers, etc., etc. Are you proud yet, folks? We need to tell our governor to get out of the way and bring that same law to Texas on a fast horse. Just imagine a United States where those protesting this new law all across America would simply be gone tomorrow.May God bless our America. God bless our military, our veterans, and our police officers everywhere. Joe Arpaio for president in 2012. Go Stings.
Just because someone is griping, doesn't mean he or she is against the Consitution.
Legal immigrants, aliens or permitted workers and visitors from any country are welcomed and supported by all citizens of the US.
Illegal Aliens are criminals by the act of breaking the laws of the United States of America. This includes ALL illegal aliens from any country no matter color, race, religion, etc. that cross any of our borders. You don't have to be caught doing a crime to be a criminal. The act of breaking a law makes you a criminal.
And ANY person or company that employs them should be fined HEAVILY.
And Joe Truman should not be elected by the fact that he stated he does not want to uphold federal law. The Arizona law mimics federal law. In fact it has just been adjusted to make sure law enforcement does not go quite as aggressive as federal law is suppose to.
The whole problem in this is that the Bush's, Clinton nor the almighty Nobama have not done what they were swore to do, enforce the Constitution and the laws of our country. The feds are the main problem in this situation. That and race baiting, racists bigoted leftist special interest groups and politicians and no guts ones on the correct side.
Reyrey..."My loyalty is towards the Constitution. "
If your loyalty is truly to the Constitution, then what's your gripe? The CONSTITUTION says that one of the powers of Congress is to establish a uniform rule of naturalization. Congress has done that. Those are the laws that are broken by people coming across the border illegally. If you are loyal to the Constitution and the laws established under it, why are you defending people who break those laws? You must admit that it makes your claimed loyalty to the Constitution seem suspect.
I take it from your post that you are in the military and have served overseas in a combat zone. If that is correct, I salute you for your service and sacrifices to defend America and offer you my most sincere thanks. I do admit that I don't understand why a US Serviceman who has served his country honorably would defend criminals. Truly, it is beyond my comprehension.
Hooray for Hollywood
Zorro..."What about all the illegal immigrants that came to Texas with guns and fought a rebellion against the government? Davy Crockett and his men did not have immigration papers or permission to enter Mexico when the came. They refused a lawful arrest order at the Alamo and killed hundreds of Mexican first responders. At the time, there was a flood of armed illegal immigrants coming to Texas from all over the USA."
Well, MOST of the Texians were here legally -- indeed, they were invited by the Mexican government. What happened to cause the rebellion? The Texians were living under the Mexican constitution of 1824 which was modeled closely to the US Constitution. Santa Anna threw out the Constitution of 1824, voided the rights guaranteed therein and declared himself dictator. This was not the contract the Texians agreed to when they came. When they arrived from the US, they brought with them just enough orneriness to put up an argument that culminated at San Jacinto. Anyway, that's a lesson in what happens when you have a bunch of people come into the country who don't really want to be loyal citizens of the new home, but rather hold onto loyalties to where they're from. Arizona is attempting to force the hands of those in DC who have forgotten this. If the feds will enforce the federal laws that exist, the states wouldn't feel the need to take matters into their own hands.
Your romantic notion of Texas history is akin to a child's belief in Santa Claus.
I'll let you figure that one out. I am sick and tired of locals of the Crossroads moan and cry of the problems they created.
Au contraire TrueOne, the governor of Arizona did indeed try to awaken a sleeping giant, but not the one you are thinking of. The giant to awaken is the federal government, to enforce the laws they are already suppose to enforce.
It seems to be a huge success judging by all the protests and the number of comments on this very site about the issue.
The state of Arizona took the extreme measure of forcing the issue to the forefront for only one reason, Washington DC has ignored it long enough.
There have been good and bad points published here. Remember, they are opinions and EVERYONE is entitiled to their opinion whether we agree or disagree. BASHING serves no purpose except venting one's frustrations. When all is said and done, I pray everyone will be satisfied--but that will probably not happen.
WHAT I WANT: To see EVERYONE come here safely, legally AND NOT in the back of a truck or go into debt to a COYOTE or to ANYONE!
Be careful how you awaken a sleeping gaint!!! Either the governor of Arizona miscaluculated or did not care about the emotional reaction this law would bring balanced against her bid for re election. you are no longer talking about pulling the plug on Grandma, you are talking about sending Grandma back to Mexico. There's is bound to be strong resistance. And rightfully so.
Vic, your last sentence was even more confusing than the previous ones in your post. You mentioned a hint and "writein"; is that an advance advertisement for WriteIn? He's been hinting that he might be showing up at election time. Are you his campaign manager or some other such thing?
Wasn't bashing Truman, if I could vote for him I would. I just thought he took advantage of a supposed "crisis" to further his re-election.
I thought that he was Joseph D. Truman (middle name after his dad.) Do I have him mixed up with someone else?
To all the bloggers who are bashing Joesph L.Truman. This man has spoke for all people. Including the people down south of Victoria. His opponent a Hispanic did not show up at all. All Joesph was trying to say is find better ways of immigration reform that is all. If it wasn't for councilmen like Haggan, Truman, Soliz. The mayor would get everything his way. Joe cares for all his voters and he is fighting for Victoria tax payers money the best he can. Give the man some credit at least he showed up to hear what people had to say. Unlike his opponent.(Emmett) Trust me then why do you think Armstrong wants Joe out of office?? Umm Dugghhh.... Watch channel 15 you can tell. hint vote write-in,
Thewayward, kind of funny that you would question my loyalty when I been deployed for a few months already and this would be just one many deployments that I done. My loyalty is towards the Constitution. At the same time, there is no way that you can enforce this without profiling. This is not about US vs Them but at the end, it looks like it will be. And for the record, some of us dont want to be thrown into the "them" corner but our skin or last name makes us "them" although we been part of this country forever but yet no matter how many sacrifices we do, we are never good enough because our skin makes us less or so some people think.
N, thanks for posting that link, as I found the same story and wanted to post it, but my computer skills sometimes are lacking. My reasoning skills are up to date, however, and I found this story and totally agree that this problem won't ever be addressed by the protestors.
Even solitary confinement doesn't keep the murders, directed from prisons, to be stopped. Until we get the people on the outside from contributing to the illegal activities (see article for examples concerning letters) and owning up to the fact that their family members are scumbags, it's a difficult situation for honest people.
Crooked prison workers, illegals, gang bangers and drugs are too plentiful.
So to all of the 150 marchers, work on getting our country back from the above mentioned lowlifes.
Suggestion: start with the convicted felons. That should keep all agencies busy for a while.
I propose that we start letting these lawbreakers start down the path to citizenship on the day that the last wefare check and/or unemployment check is handed out. Let the ones sitting at home and being paid for it have the jobs that these ILLEGALS are taking. Who knows, maybe it will help the obesity problems when they have to sweat a little. And don't give me this c**p that they are only doing the work that Americans won't do. If the American gets hungry enough they can either work or starve.
Someone refresh my memory, please. Were we this concerned when the US government required all US citizens to have a passport to reenter the US?
It's not about them coming over here to try and make a better life for their families. It's what they do once they get here. They should not expect anything from the government. They should not demand anything once they get here. They should be grateful that they are here and support themselves. They should make it on their own, or get a sponser/family member already here, to help them, just like our ancestors did.There is only so much charity to go around. They are very actively contributing to breaking the backbone of this Country.It makes me so mad that they go to free clinics, ER rooms, go to school free, make the schools hire more teachers and build new schools, get free lunch, and then they send all their extra money home to Mexico to help those left behind.The money they earn should be used to support themselves here. That money should be used to support America, not Mexico. Our economy cannot withstand having jobs where the money does not get funneled back into America, through paying taxes, and supporting our economy.Have you ever hear the term "upside down" when it comes to an auto loan? I think this is just about the same thing.
this is just to all the negative people, i wish you lived in the shoes of the people who live in mexico for a day. you would not survive a minute!!! they come here to try to make a better living for their wifes and children. it's so easy for you just to say wait and come here leagally blah blah blah. do you know how hard that is, the process, the cost, the time that takes. just shoot me!! they didn't asked to be born into such a poor country. everything we have here in the u.s. we take for granted such as clothes, cars, food ect. i just think it's racial profiling and rascism in a political kind of way. i think the higher authority needs to take matters into his hands and flood the earth and take such evilness outta here!!!
What about all the illegal immigrants that came to Texas with guns and fought a rebellion against the government? Davy Crockett and his men did not have immigration papers or permission to enter Mexico when the came. They refused a lawful arrest order at the Alamo and killed hundreds of Mexican first responders. At the time, there was a flood of armed illegal immigrants coming to Texas from all over the USA.
If you ever bother to check the list of those who died during the Texas Revolution, you will see that the list is predominantly illegal immigrants from virtually every state in the US and many foreign countries.
Ok. it's my turn to speak:
I have read the article and the comments posted. Unfortunately, people immediately point the finger at Hispanics.What about Canadians who come here to work and have to abide by the same laws in order to work? They need IDs, too. And, they get them or face deportation. Mr. Truman brings up his Mom. Well, in those days it was different-and alot tougher. My Dad's parents were immigrants and raised nine children. Whatever country we travel to, we have to follow their laws-PERIOD. The Hispanics are singled out simply because they are of the majority(?). People get disgusted when they see signs/billboards--etc.,etc.-in English and Spanish. Well, don't we see the same thing in Mexico and other countries? In some cases we do. I don't see it as profiling. I just see it as another law making it tougher for those who break the law to come over here and try to make an honest living-and that's what hurts. I would rather see "illegals" spend their money to obtain the necessary paperwork to work here than to give it to some blood-sucking COYOTE who really doesn't care what happens to them! In some cases, the companies or individuals-pay the COYOTE and then the people are indebted to them to pay them back---it's a vicious cycle that needs to be stopped. I know I have said this before. ----------I hope I have made my point clear--------------------------The bottom line:-----------FOLLOW THE LAW.THE LAW IS NOT COLOR SPECIFIC SOME ARE MAKING IT COLOR SPECIFIC!
I would remind those who believe the Arizlona law is "racist" and "discriminatory" and will cause "racial profiling" to remember that the reason behind this law is millions of people from foreign nations who crossed our border with mexico ILLEGALLY and have taken up residence here in defiance of the laws of the United Stataes. It is THEY who are the problem, not the state of Arizona. If you feel you have a gripe coming, complain to those who are committing criminal acts every day simply by being here.
Reyrey, you're right. The only way this is going to work is for all citizens and legal aliens to carry ID cards with them. The proposed cards with biometric information is a very good idea. I have NO problem with proving my citizenship either when I vote or if cop stops me for speeding. Those who couldn't provide such proof should be taken into custody until their citizenship can be accurately established. Your last sentence is very tellling: "I just hope that when you white people are the minority, you are treated the same way." This indicates that you have the sort of "us vs. them" mentality that Writein so despises when he complains about conservatives. It is obvious that your loyalties lie with the citizens of another country and NOT with the US.
4reals... Your question is right on the mark: "From a personal view, I wonder, should the Native Americans that were here on this soil initially, have asked everybody coming to America to provide documents?"
The answer is, they didn't and look what happened to THEM. We have laws in place that are supposed to prevent that from happening to the US. While we welcome immigrants who follow the rules and obey the laws and want to become American citizens, those who break those laws and don't follow the rules should be returned home. By remaining here illegally, they demonstrate quite clearly that they do not wish to become Americans and want to remain Mexican (or Honduran or Columbian or whatever they are).
City councilman Joe Truman says his mother is an immigrant: ""My mother came to this country from war-torn Europe - from Austria," said Truman, who is seeking re-election May 8. "What we are here today for is to ask for fairness in immigration. Everyone has the right to dream to be better. We just need to come up with a better way of doing it."
I would ask Mr. Truman if his mother sneaked across the border into the country illegally or if she abided by the laws and entered the country legally. If she came here legally, Truman is comparing apples to oranges with his comments and is simply pandering for votes.
"Undocumented workers already settled in the United States should be allowed to stay, Martinez said."
I believe what he actually ment was "Illegal Immigrants who broke the law should be allowed to stay"
What on Earth give Martinez the right to say that? The AZ law mimics the Federal Law which is already on the books! LaRaza and other Hispanic Groups that advocate open borders seem to think that the taxpayers of this country have the obligation to support illegals education, medical, housing and on and on. How about a revolution in Mexico and the people take their own country back? No, citizens and legal immigrants are tired of this invasion and want it stopped.
read the bill in and don't read between the lines...this bill is only meant to protect citizens of all nationalities...it singles no one except illegal crime breakers out...
You really do not understand if you listen instead of reading for yourself
N45BA stated " Anyone wanting to head South, you are free to go, you just aren't welcome back."
If they are Americans, they can't. Mexico has immigration laws.
Mexico has failed its people in every way possible. Many years ago, Mexico was a lovely place to visit, but now it is too dangerous to visit and their own people risk their lives to escape, I guess I would rather see the people from Mexico protest, and fight to win back Mexico. I worry that in years to come will all border towns like Texas, New Mexico, etc; become too dangerous to visit, too dangerous to live in. The dream of freedom can only be protected with laws, and people that respect those laws.
A drivers license does not prove citizenship. They are given to any and all. However, if you vote - a voters registration is proof of citizenship.
A lot of the comments here were good for a laugh or two.
Identification...don't leave home without it in Arizona and hopefully soon the same will apply to Texas.
It's a simple matter really; if a person is here illegally, that person is breaking the law and should be dealt with according to the law.
If I'm driving without a license, I'm breaking the law and should be dealt with according to the law.
If I'm in another country and can't produce my passport or my visa, guess what? I'm illegal and their laws will deal with me.
Get a grip you poor victims...if you want "rights" as granted to citizens of the USA by the Bill of Rights...you need to be here legally, you need to learn English and you need to become a citizen.
It's such a simple matter really...
Myra Duran, a 17-year-old of Goliad, is headed to Arizona in June to see her family.The new law makes her nervous, she said."I don't want to go over there and not be able to come back," she said. "I was born in America."Her grandmother, Martha Jarisch, isn't sure how much legal documentation to send with Myra."Now it's scary just to send her over there," Jarisch, 56, said. "Do I send her with enough papers, or do I not send her with enough papers? I want her to come back."
Let me guess here, Ms. Jarisch has not read the law and is going on what she has heard from the local race baiters called LULAC. How did you get to Victoria? Did you drive or did your grand daughter possibly drive you? Most 17 year olds do have a drivers license and that my dear is what is known as a proper ID. There, I cleared up all that “enough papers” BS for you.
This is just another fight that most of the greedy, selfish people throw up when others try to move in to better themselves. From a personal view, I wonder, should the Native Americans that were here on this soil initially, have asked everybody coming to America to provide documents? Should the Mexicans push all the people that are here now, onto a reservation? Tell them that the government requires them to live on a small plot of land, and take away all their rights? Who are these so called "law abiding" citizens. IMO, these are people, that when things don't go their way, create new laws to their advantage, in order to get their way. This land is your land, this land is my land. Learn to live in Peace. When you leave this earth, your only legacy should be, "I was a good person, that treated others with the respect that they deserved."
Since the FEDERAL government refuses to deal with this issue, now states are forced to deal with what is a NATIONAL problem.
STOP intruding in local issues, Mr. Congressman and Mr. President. And START dealing with issues of NATIONAL SECURITY.
Ignorant protests in Spanish in Texas will have zero effect on the Arizona law. It will only give strength to racist groups in this state. You folks are working against yourselves...
Hi, I was born in Victoria Texas and all my ansesters are from Tejas "Texas" . they helped build the US from the begining , they crossed no borders and they believed the lies that they could live free in the US if they assimilated. I currently live in Arizona on the Mexican American border I live where all the mess is. Now this country that we help build is telling me that because of my skinn color i have to show proof that I am from here? Yet all the Timothy McVieghs all malitias, patriots,KKk,cults and tea baggers get to run around freely and armed because they are white? Something wrong with this picture. If you are latino or brown skinned and you feel this law is right , I invite you to come to the border towns and feel how your brown skinned arse will be treated then come back and post your experience.
First, I am an American of Mexican descent, an ex-military, a professional, and a proud Texan. I know illegal immigration is out-of-control and a solution is needed and I respect the right of my nation to control its own borders (all borders) in humane manners. As a ex-military individual I served my country with dignity and I respect its laws.
Not every brown skin person that speaks Spanish is from Mexico. Texas has a large population of Mexican Americans, many that are 3rd, 4th, and even 6th generation inhabitants of this area; our ancestors lived here when Texas was part of Mexico and fought against Mexico for Texas independence and became Texas Republic citizens and today, we are proud American citizens.
The trouble with the Arizona law is the racial profiling, the discrimination, and possible violence against American born citizens who happen to look Mexican.
To understand my concern please visit the following link; http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc....
Any human within the borders of this nation have rights granted by the United States Constitution. Get with the program instead chest beating around. Before you sit there and proclaim I am for illegals, the answer is NOT. I am also against the "us vs them", " my way or the hiway" mentiality many of you conservatives have.
Illegals should have no rights. They are here illegally!
Let add this as well. All of these conservatives are mad about protesters using Mexican flag, but are slient when a tea partier have racist signs against the President or pictures of dead childern.
Why did they change lauguage with the second bill? Why because the first bill, now law, was unjust.
@butwiser who said: "The fastest way to turn me against your cause is to carry signs written in Spanish. It helps to prove the point that these criminals do not want to be Americans"
I have no idea how you make this correlation. I have seen placards written in barely legible English carried by Tea Party members that I could equally apply a false conclusion like this to.
This is basically about profiling. The only way you white people can make this work is by making it mandatory for everybody to carry an ID, a la Europe. Now, are you going to complaint about a forced national ID? Either you believe in the U.S. Constitution or you dont. You all were complaining about a forced national Health care plan because you didnt want the government to infringe on your "rights" but you would not be against a national ID card? Oh yea, forgot, it doesnt affect you now, right? This basically comes down to a simple fact, that the country is going the way Texas is going, the minorities are becoming the majority and you people dont like it. I just hope that when you white people are the minority, you are treated the same way.
Geez , once again, the language in the bill has been changed, a person cannot be randomly stopped going to Burger King or Wal Mart, if they commit a driving violation or another violation at their house and the police are called, the police can ask for ID.
THE SAME AS IT IS ANYWHERE.
But I guess, once a group of protesters mind is made up that something is racist, unconstitutional or just unfair, no matter if it mirrors existing law, ( after a few language changes), they just can not abandon there original position.
There is a host of folks that continue to use the word racism, and most likely have no clue as to the meaning of the word. Racism is used as a last resort to support their argument because they have failed to articulate those facts on a particular issue.
The civil rights issue, there is no way that an illegal alien has earned the right to even speak about or think they are entitled to any civil rights under the constitution to which they entered illegally across a sovereign border of another country, namely the Unites States border, north or south. They are citizen of another country, and they have no right to advocate or speak and dishonor the United States Constitution, which so many American “citizens” have fought and died for including my self, if you don’t respect our laws, get the hell out.
The fastest way to turn me against your cause is to carry signs written in Spanish. It helps to prove the point that these criminals do not want to be Americans, they just want to attach to the American system like a parasite and suck the life out of it. Just because a person speaks Spanish and has possibly a slightly darker complexion does not give them a pass to break any law they choose and have the American government give them a go free card. It is so nice to hear the Mexican government is warning its citizens not to travel to Arizona. Wow, that's a first!
Me? happy? Nope, I am not a happy person. Mainly because yall conservatives put too much focus on the illegals and not on the companies in the first place.
"Write-in" is a strong hint for the near future.
agreed writein, Both are knowingly breaking the law. But, the companies did not break the law by being here illegally. Where they break the law is tax evasion, slavery, unsafe workplace, child labor, and a whole lot of other crimes. It is not part of the illegal entry crime.
WriteIn, or whomever you are today, I was posing a question for Joe Truman who mentioned his mother coming over from Austria. She didn't sneak over the borders and went through the lawful means to stay here. My point was: Why would Joe Truman support illegal invaders of the United States? Is this just a political movement to gain the Hispanic votes? So, lets have the ICE raid all the businesses who hire the illegal invaders and haul the illegal invaders back to their own country. Throw the employers in jail here and then everyone is where they belong. Will that make you happy, WriteIn?
The Law should also target those who hire them. With or withnot the race issue, the law is still unfair.
"you lack understanding here and refuse to admit on some things. The Law is unfair because it targets the illegals only than inculding companies, firms and chruches what hire them. "
Yup, that sentence makes me lack understanding too.
And the above article, what a political opportunity Mr. Truman took advantage of by participating. Isn't his opponent Hispanic?
Geez , once again, the language in the bill has been changed, a person cannot be randomly stopped going to Burger King or Wal Mart, if they commit a driving violation or another violation at their house and the police are called, the police can ask for ID.
THE SAME AS IT IS ANYWHERE.
You complain about the AZ law and that it is profiling. What about the fact that I need a pass port to go over to Mexico or anywhere outside of the United States on Vacation, and if I don’t have one I can NOT come back in without a Hassel and I am an AMERICAN BORN CITIZEN. Now tell me what the hell the difference is between what we are asking of the citizens of AZ. NOT A DAMN THING. So if you’re here illegally then you should be sent home. If you enter the US the right way, and I will not have PROBLEM! So as to LULAC on this protest, they are wrong and just doing what they do at least 50% of the time, and that is CRY RASICT!!
The law is not unfair when it targets people that break the law, no matter what color their skin is.
All American citizens are expected to obey the law, and that means every law, so why should illegals get a free pass on that?Why do people protest following the law in one way when it effects them, but in another way when it doesn't?
You lack understanding here and refuse to admit on some things. The Law is unfair because it targets the illegals only than inculding companies, firms and chruches what hire them.
I have a question for Joe Truman, did your mother come over here legally or did she sneak across the border? Of course, she came over here legally, and I am sure that she applied for citizenship and completed all the necessary steps to become a citizen. That's all that is necessary: come into the country legally, go through the proper (legal) steps to become a citizen and then you are welcome to become a contributing member of the United States of America.
Immigrants are worried that they will have to carry their documents at all times? Have you seen a green card? It is the size of a driver's license. It fits in a wallet. When I operate a vehicle, it is expected of me to carry my documentation (driver's license) with me at all times.
I know many an immigrant that are here legally. I am all for allowing people who choose to become citizens naturalize. I have a HUGE problem with people crossing the border illegally and expecting citizens to fully foot their bills. Why can't they come legally? What is stopping them from obtaining the correct documentation that will grant them the protections that they are seeking? What would happen to me if I decided to illegally enter another country? Will they foot my bills and support me, or will I be detained and deported?
While I understand the need for immigration reform and think the wording of the Arizona Law still needs to be better defined, the last couple of paragraphs in this article highlight the fear and misinformation that is circulating around this law - much in the same way the Health Care Bill did.