Put in a pedestrian controled stop light and leave it be.
If Victoria drivers would get off the phone occasionally, and parents would teach their kids not to step in front of moving autos (should we add that to the high school curriculum?), and YOU would quit driving down Stockbauer like it was a freeway, all of this would be mute.
What Bureaucrat got canned for the poorly planned and executed Hike and Bike Trail? With all of these so-called "experts" the city employs, did even one of them voice concern about following the creek across the middle of a busy street? Are the taxpayers getting hosed by the continued lack of supervision of well paid bureaucrats by our elected representatives?
Re-routing is NOT the Answer and those thinking it is is stupid, stupid, stupid. Come on - so your going to walk to the current cross then walk another direction to cross the street. Victoria has no Jay-walking laws so people will cross at the short route no matter if they re-route. Fix what we have now - no need in pouring more Concrete unless there is someone getting paid under the table for this too. You know there always is.
It is not that safe if you upgrade what we have. Put a raised section in the middle lane so those who need to cross only have to cross two lanes in stead of five. Navarro is like that - not that bad. Plus put a person to help kids cross (crossing guard!!!) is it is that bad.
Wake up city Council - fix this by Jan 1 of 2011 or get someone else to do your job - You sure can't. You put it up - you fix - if there is no money - take it out of the salary you get - Some make too much as it is.
I say if it isn't fixed by Jan 1st - we need new and better city council leaders - Cause they can't lead anything now!
Roberttx. Where did you get the Africa thing? Why are you using Africa to make your point?
pat, when your village in africa needs a new goat path, how does the village pay for it ?
also, what is the credit rating of your village in africa ?
Pat, we are way past the village part of the timeline for Victoria.
Mr. Williams and you seem to be cut from the same cloth when it comes to spending. If it isn't a absolute necessity then the city shouldn't "waste" money on the project?
Mr Holein1 you are incorrect. The whole trail is a bad idea. The town council made decission bad to borrow money to build it. We are drowning in debt. During these triple dip recessions we need to stop spending all money. We could have lived without some of these crazy road projects and this crazy sewer plant being builded. Jeff Williams will stop all of this craziness!
Your're right Jeff, you don't have to stick your hand into a fire to know it will get burnt. But you can actually touch logs that are in the fire and not get burnt, right? You can be near a fire and not get burnt, right? You can have a campfire and not start a forest fire, right?
I believe that you should stay far, far away from anything that may at one time or another pose a threat to you or anyone. You never know when that electric knife is going to get away from you and chop your hand off.
Your logic escapes me.
I don't have to actually walk the trail and cross the street to see that the location of the crossing was a bad decision no more then I have to actually stick my hand in a fire to know I will get burned. Common sense and experience provides many answers without actually being involved in the action.
If you believe it to be a knee-jerk reaction to to take action to correct an obviously dangerous situation, that is your right but I believe your opinion to be wrong.
This crossing is in a bad location and nothing is going to change that fact. Common sense and basic trafficflow deems you don't cross a 5 lane 45MPH road midblock.
I guess you would support the same type of crossing on Navarro where there are 7 lanes and 45MPH as long as it allowed several hundred people to use a trail. The 30,000 plus cars per day that travel Navarro should not have to yield to several hundred walkers and this same logic applies to Stockbauer which has thousands of cars per day travel it. Stockbauer has a large traffic flow now and will increase substantially when 463 and Sam Houston are both under construction at the same time. The problem will only worsen, if this crosswalk remains, it will not improve.
Jeff - For one that lives on the East side of Stockbauer near the high school, I don't think that the trail is a waste of money. I was very upset to see the barricades go up after the incident with the kid. Crossing any street is inherently dangerous and extra caution should be taken at any time. Because one kid, or parent, wasn't paying attention then all of the sudden the crossing is so dangerous that it has to be closed? Talk about a knee-jerk reaction.
I suppose you were down at city council ranting about Sam Houston being redone but the Lilac intersection not getting reworked?
If you have never used the crosswalk and never plan to, then I don't think you have a true understanding of what you're talking about.
Actually if they use the trail to Stockbauer then go to the Mockingbird crosswalk (it is only 2/10 of a mile) or the Ben Jordan Crosswalk (is 3/10 of a mile) they have sidewalk all the way. Why walk on Leary Ln.? Mockingbird has a sidewalk then cut to the Leary Ln. neighborhoods at the schools. I know we shouldn't ask these kids to go a few feet out of their way.
According to Chief Ure the traffic is barely moving in the morning, and so speed and the curve are not an issue at the crossing. I personally try to avoid all school zones in the morning if possible, so I can't attest to the accuracy of his statement.
Can anyone that goes that route in the morning let us in on how many students are actually using the crosswalk before/after school? It's hard to make a decision without data, and the chief's 'report' doesn't have a whole lot in the way of statistics. 'I don't think that would work' is not the kind of report I'd want to get if I were on the council.
I don't know if a second entrance at the East HS is in the works (I know it's been requested by many), but the trail on that side could come in handy. How about a two lane, one way only 'circular' drive that begins just north of Ben Wilson, heads towards the high school, then loops back along the existing trail. That would be a good drop off point for students since parents/buses could loop all the way around and allow students to use the trail to walk to the school. It would be nice if the city and VISD would work together on big projects like...oh I don't know...a bunch of new schools.
Who is it that actually plans these things? Is it the city planner, some outside consultants? This hike and bike project is just one example of many where something that could have been really great ended up being a disaster because of no planning.
Wow. I am hearing a lot of unpolitically correct talk about personal responsibility going on here. To expect an individual to think for ones self and accept personal responsibility for one's decision seems to be a thing of the past. I, for one, have spent a number of years crossing the street without my mommy or mayor holding my hand.
On the other side of the coin flip, the crossing is in a very bad spot. It is in the middle of a curve on a multi lane road with a posted speed of 45 mph. You can't see the cars and they can't see you until they are on top of you.
I was almost hit when crossing on my bike, after I performed the stop, look and listen technique and looking left, right, left before crossing. I had even stopped in the middle lane to look again before proceeding. After that incident, I stopped using that particular crossing.
The decision to place the crossing there was truely an accident waiting to happen. The crossing does need to be moved down to the intersection.
If I may propose another solution, City Council needs to drive to Katy and check out what they did in Cullen Park at the Barker Cypress crossing. There is a pedestrian crossing button that works quite well using a traffic light to stop traffic so the hike and bike trail users can cross safely. I do not know if there is enough distance between the Mockingbird intersection and the crossing to alleviate too much traffic jamming. There is one problem with the button. It takes personal responsibility to use it properly.
I don't dispute that they are going to cross at various spots but the reality is to cross Stockbauer they would have had to walk through almost 2,000 ft. of undevloped fields. This is not the same as crossing Miori at the former VHS campus or even Ben Wilson at the former Stroman campus. If sidewalks existed on Mockingbird to Stockbauer and Ben Jordan to Stockbauer how many people do you really think would take off "cross country" to cross the road?
I have an issue when tax dollars are spent on unnecessary and ill conceived projects. This is not an issue of me using the crosswalk, which I never will, this is an issue of professional planners and engineers putting a crossing on a major thoroughfare, midblock and without regard for the flow of vehicular traffic. Again, this would not be an issue if the trail ended back in the neighborhood to the south (which will be the case with the proposed "fix") and did not exist on the north side of Stockbauer. The city created a problem that was not there and would not be there if proper planning had been undertaken. This is not just a school crossing issue this is an issue of ADULTS, whom I have seen many, crossing with no regard for the lights (stopping and waiting for the flashing lights to engage) or oncoming traffic. I cannot understand how anyone can support putting crosswalks midblock on roads that have 45MPH speed limits and huge traffic volumes. Would you support putting a crossing similar to this on Navarro maybe at every bus stop?
I don't think they should remove any part of the trail. Nor do I think they should remove the flashing lights. I used to walk to school. Never had a problem crossing the street. There were plenty of us that would ride our bikes all over town and cross Navarro, Sam Houston, Salem, Mockingbird, etc and didn't get hit by cars. It's all about common sense, which doesn't seem to be so common any more.
Jeff, if you have an issue with the crossing design, I suggest you do not use it.
I agree with the posters that have mentioned the lack of personal responsibility in regards to this issue.
vet- I can understand your concern, but what is the cost of stupidity? I fear for the future of our nation too, if the youth of today can't be bothered to learn how to cross the street.
Mr Williams is right. All the decision makers in the city are stupid. I hope you get elected as village commisioner mr williams, I know things like this would not get past you. I know you will also do something about this massive debt! It must be stopped. No more wasteful projects. We should probably consider closing the trail completely. The maintenance cost is not worth it. My taxes are outrageous.
Lets look at the truth If this crossing didn't exist the kids would still be running across the street at random spots. They did it at Memorial with a crosswalk less than 15 feet away. So there is no real way to win because parents aren't gonna monitor their kids and it's not the city's responsibility to babysit them.
I agree with those that think high school age young adults should know how to safely cross a street but this issue runs much deeper.
The statement to the effect the kids are going to take a shortcut through the grass is, in my opinion, an attempt to redirect the mistake made by the city and make it into the kids responsibility.
If this trail crossing did not exist kids, again in my opinion, would not have walked several blocks through undeveloped fields to cross John Stockbauer.
The mistake was to bring this trail to a crossing, mid-block on a major thoroughfare that has 5 lanes of traffic 4 of which are traveling at 45MPH. Numerous people asked the council to resolve this issue before pedestrian traffic patterns were established (school opening) but it was not done. The decision to put the crossing where it was located created a problem that did not, and again in my opinion, would not exist today. We as taxpayers get to pay for the bad decisions and then get to pay again to fix the results of those decisions.
For those that are suggesting a walkover at this crossing. I believe the estimated cost for this was over $1.5million which is in the range of the cost of the entire trail. I for one am not anxious to see taxpayer money in the range of $1.5million spent to correct a bad decision.
vet43, do you have any suggestions on this issue or should we just lock all kids up somewhere so that nothing can hurt them? Have you survived this long because someone has held your hand the whole time, or because you think for yourself and make your own decisions? I'm guessing the latter.
I have a daughter, and when she starts going to school I'm going to make sure she knows a little common sense. If I'm still scared to death about a traffic situation that might cause an accident, then I'll drive her to school or walk her myself. I'm not going to expect the city or anyone else to help me out.
All this bickering can be avoided if the kids just think for themselves a bit. Unfortunately many are being raised to expect someone else to think for them.
I guess if you run a red light and another car hits you, its their fault you didn't obey the traffic laws. And the city should have put up a sign telling others you might run that light. Same as a young adult crossing the road in the wrong place. If the kids are taught to do right then there will be less chance of an accident. No grieving parents.
You can expect anything you want, but in the real world people make mistakes and sometimes even do stupid things. But just to make it interesting why don't we add some traps like speeding cars? The other issue is the drivers. Have you noticed some drivers may not be paying attention? Maybe on a cell phone in a school zone. (Yes, I have seen it often). Last but not least, THEY ARE TEENAGERS! They have their whole life in front of them but if they make a mistake it's on them. That should help the grieving parents.
Why is it so wrong to expect TEENAGERS to follow the street laws and cross at appropriate places? How hard is it to teach a kid to cross the road? Evidently in Victoria impossible. But what do I expect I see adults walking out in front of cars without looking all over town.
I give up. I was wrong. If you child is killed or injured it is the parents fault and the kid had it comming. A leg or arm is the price of a 5 second lack of attention. If this is the message we want to send to the next generation I fear for our nation.
It's really quite easy to avoid being hit by a car when crossing the street. Myself and millions of others do it everyday. I stand by my point that it's not the city's job to babysit.
If you are concerned about your kids, then you teach them how to do things the right way, don't leave it up to the city to create an educational course on crossing the street. If you taught them well and they disregard your instruction, then it's on them.
The easy way out is to blame someone else, and that's what the kids are really learning from all this belly-aching. If they get a bad grade it's the teacher's fault, if they get hit by a car it's the city's fault, if they get thrown in jail it's their parent's fault, if they make a mistake someone else will fix it. Enough already. Cross at the crosswalk or suffer the consequences.
VOX. I stand by my comment. The hard reality is we seem to to have more value for money than our children. Do not throw $'s and hope it solves something. Think the issue over with practical suggestions and spend the right amount to educate drivers and students and correct the physical issues. One poster went so far as to say if "you hit one that will be one less to worry about tommorow". How callus is that from a citizen?
Sorry vet43. I rarely agree with Halepaska, but this is an exception. It's not the city's job to babysit and cater to kids old enough to know how to cross a street. If I want to cross a dangerous street I'll go down to a crosswalk. That's why jaywalking laws are in place...to discourage people from crossing at unsafe points. Perhaps the VPD should enforce this for a few days?
Let's say they tear up the trail, force kids to go to Ben Jordan and use the crosswalk, and someone still gets hit by a car. What then? Close the street down during certain times? At some point people have to have some personal responsibility and common sense and leave the government out of it. All the laws, ordinances, crosswalks, signals, etc. in the world won't prevent accidents from happening.
So far we've built a trail, added a crosswalk, put up signs, put up rumble strips, removed rumble strips, put up warning lights, put up barricades, and now we're going to tear down a portion of the trail altogether. What a waste of money, time, and resources! And why? Because people don't know how to cross a street or drive correctly.
Did Council Member Halepaske really say "Perhaps we really don't have a problem"? Mr. Halepaske may be the problem. A dead or injured child may be what it takes for him and others to worry about people not dollars. When it comes to our childrens safety there can be no question about fixing the issue. Anybody price the value of a child lately?
This is crazy! The kids will walk out in front of cars no matter what is done with the trail. They did it at Memorial, they did it at Crain, they will continue to do it. At least if you hit one of them, that will be one less to worry about tomorrow.
They need to re-route it to the trash pile, we need more important things like getting our children to school safely, oh yea let's vote out every one of the council members,they don't deserve to spend our money.
This is just plain dumb. There's another article today with people complaining that there's no sidewalk on Mockingbird from Stockbauer to the high school. Well guess what folks, there is...just use the hike and bike trail to get to and from Stockbauer. Look at that! I just saved the city $280,000! No new sidewalk needed on Mockingbird ($200K) and no need to tear up the trail ($80K).
Victoria High School and Memorial High School kids had been running across Sam Houston (not a particularly quiet street) for what, 50 years? Nobody had to build an overpass or re-route sidewalks there.
They can't afford to mow the ditches after all this rain but they have $80-$90k to redo the hike and bike trail. Leave the trail alone and mow the ditches and R.O.W.'s. The city is spending money like it grows in our pockets! Use that money somewhere it can be more useful like mowing the ditches!
I had to reroute my own travels when East gets out of school because the kids walk right out in front of the cars without even looking! A few just hold up their hands in a "stop for me" motion. They assume that the person driving the car that they are trying to stop is paying attention! Once they are off of VISD property they are no longer VISD responsibility. Stop light won't work either because they will just keep walking (or running as I have seen on Stockbauer) out in front cars like they are invincible.
Same problem on WEST with the kids walking across Cuero hwy.
I suggest that they leave the walking trail alone. Victoria cannot afford to spend more money or fixing what should have been done correctly in the first place. If the city council wants to reroute, let them pay for the changes out of THEIR pockets.
I am sorry this is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. What ever happened to constructing the walkover??? Do not tear up the trail!!!
The city needs to come up with a solution. When an accident occurs in this area, you can bet there will be a lawsuit.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.