Targeted firefighter says he wasn't offended by photographs
Target considered images in his locker simply as a 'prank;' comrades fired for it
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VICTORIA PERSONNEL POLICIES MANUALExamples of sexual harassment from the manual include:
According to the city of Victoria personnel policies manual, "the following conduct is prohibited and individuals engaged in it will be subject to discipline, up to and including ...- SHOW ALL »
VICTORIA PERSONNEL POLICIES MANUALExamples of sexual harassment from the manual include:
According to the city of Victoria personnel policies manual, "the following conduct is prohibited and individuals engaged in it will be subject to discipline, up to and including termination":
"Engaging in any form of sexual or other harassment"
"Playing pranks, practical jokes, or engaging in horseplay"
"Sexual or discriminatory displays, photographs or publications in any location in the workplace, e.g., any sexually suggestive pictures, cartoons or photographs."
A Victoria firefighter told city officials he was not offended by the provocative photographs placed in his locker by co-workers, according to reports released Friday.
The photographs of nude men, some in suggestive poses, were put in his locker at Victoria Fire Station No. 2.
In a document that is part of the investigation report on the incident, Victoria Human Resources Director Cheryl Marthiljohni writes, "(He) 'was not offended by what happened.' He also stated that he took it as a 'prank' or 'joke' because he and (the two firefighters) would often joke around with each other.
"(He) said he knew who did the joke because (they) were the only ones at the station house and joking around is something that they do. When asked to describe the type of joking that they do, he said they joke around 'like guys do.'"
He crumpled the photos up and threw them in the trash, according to his statement.
Despite his statements, the co-workers were fired by the city. Both had more than five years experience with the Victoria Fire Department.
The Advocate obtained the city reports after filing a Texas Public Information Act request. The firefighters involved in the case have declined to comment.
TWO PRINTERS
The firefighter in Station 2 who printed the photographs from the Internet also accidentally printed them on the Station No. 1 printer.
At Station 1, some of the photographs were placed on a bulletin board, but a captain threw them away and, according to her statement, told firefighters there, "... whoever is doing this needs to stop. This is inappropriate and should not be printed at work."
In her statement, she also said, "While I knew the pictures were wrong and inappropriate, I did not report this to Interim Chief (Roger) Hempel or acting Battalion Chief (Clifton) Bayer as I was not offended by the pictures and I chose to handle it inhouse."
However, the photos printed at Station 1 led to the reporting of the incident.
A lieutenant from Station 1 asked a lieutenant from Station 2 about photos "of what appeared to be homosexual activity" being printed at Station 1.
The lieutenant at Station 2 had seen the firefighter throw away the photographs earlier in the day, but said he did not see them closely and dismissed the incident at the time.
"After thinking about the events that took place throughout the day, I began to place the pieces of the puzzle together," the lieutenant wrote in his statement. "I attempted to pull the photos out of the trash can, however, had to obtain a trash bag since someone had spit tobacco onto the papers."
He reported the incident to Hempel the next day.
INVESTIGATION & TERMINATION
After an internal investigation, Hempel notified both firefighters on March 29 of his "preliminary decision to terminate."
Investigation into both men's computer use revealed which of the two men had accessed the "websites suspected to have provided the inappropriate pictures."
During the investigation, both firefighters admitted their roles in the incident.
Hempel told the firefighter who did not print the photos but helped put them in his co-workers' locker that, "you were an equal, contributing partner in the inappropriate behavior that occurred."
The internal investigation also revealed that a female EMS student rider was in the Fire Station 2 kitchen area when the photographs were taped together and she "had opportunity to view the inappropriate pictures," stated Hempel's termination letter.
In her statement during the investigation, the student said she "did not recall any of the firefighters asking if she was offended when they were putting together the pictures..."
Asked whether she was offended, she said, "Yes, I'm a little offended by what happened."
GRIEVANCE PROCEDURE
Hempel also advised both firefighters that they had five days to file a letter of grievance.
"You are now afforded an opportunity to provide me any information, documentation or other relevant data that you wish to present to me which may bear upon my final decision," he wrote. "The burden is entirely upon you to come forward and present evidence to me. The purpose of this opportunity that I am affording you is to hear from you and not to conduct a formal evidentiary hearing."
The firefighter who printed the photos wrote in his defense that the photographs were printed "in order to have a private communication with a co-worker."
"None of the photos were taken from a website blocked by the city's filtering software and could readily be viewed by anyone in the department - male or female - whatever their sexual preference, who was curious enough or interested in looking at the website. There also was no exposure of genitalia in any picture and none of the images were remotely pornographic," he wrote.
The firefighter also stated that the target of the practical joke was, "amused and did not take offense to any of the images."
"My behavior and work ethic are near flawless," his letter continued.
He also contended that such behavior is typical at the fire department.
"It is customary and traditional in the fire service to play practical jokes and tolerate mild horseplay," he wrote. "Multiple examples of this type of behavior have been documented in many employee files and such behaviors are cemented in firefighting tradition," he stated.
The firefighter who did not print the photos but helped place them in the locker also submitted a grievance letter.
He took full responsibility for his "improper actions" and offered, if retained in the department, to help with "training to reduce the amount of horseplay and practical joking that, for the last five years, has been a routinely accepted part of the job."
He added that his role in the incident was "limited" and the "practical joke was intended to be limited to a single co-worker."
INCONSISTENT PUNISHMENT?
In both men's grievance letters, dated April 4, they noted several incidents of misconduct in the fire department and elsewhere in the city that, according to them, were more egregious than their behavior, but resulted in less severe punishments.
"These examples will illustrate the inconsistency of my punishment compared to worse offenses in recent times," wrote the firefighter who printed the photographs. "The referenced examples reflect that this policy is subjective and the city appears to be utilizing selective enforcement procedures."
The firefighter who did not print the photos also stated, "There are numerous examples of horseplay/practical jokes that violate VFD and city of Victoria policy that have occurred during my employment tenure."
Both men asked to be reinstated.
A day later Hempel responded: "I find no compelling reasons or evidence that would cause me to reverse any decision to terminate your employment with the city of Victoria."
A FINAL APPEAL
Both firefighters have one more avenue of appeal.
According to the city's personnel manual, Step Three in the grievance procedure is an appeal to assistant city manager Bruce Ure, who will then make a recommendation to City Manager Charmelle Garrett, whose decision about their jobs will be final.
Asked whether the firefighters had made that appeal, Communications Director O.C. Garza said, "To protect all parties involved in internal investigations, the city will not comment on individual cases."
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the last comment that was made under my account was not the real ems30...I was hacked therefore it has been removed.
April 13, 2011 at 1:30 p.m.@lamppost--don't kid yourself, they knew who posted on the bulletin board or at least they can figure it out...just with any work environment, the boss knows which employees are the "pranksters" and would do something like this...and who wouldnt do it...IMO
April 11, 2011 at 4:53 p.m.@scarlet-- her post said "he may have more benefits"..impliying that COV firefighters have good benefits...when in fact, that is the furtherest thing from the truth...'nuff said
April 11, 2011 at 4:50 p.m.I agree the rules should be followed. However, they should apply to all.
April 11, 2011 at 9:30 a.m.Geeh fire the firefighters but we keep the not so honest city official. How sad!!
April 11, 2011 at 8:57 a.m.@proudwifeofafirefighter, i think you misread the comment by EMS30, i don't see where they mention good benefits. In fact, it sounded as if they were saying what little benefits they did have did not make up for the pay that they get for the job that they do.
April 11, 2011 at 8:45 a.m."Bosses gone bad"!!!
Yeah, those "Good ol' boy" bosses, following those pesky things called "rules"
April 10, 2011 at 7:27 p.m.ilovemyff,
Do you know something the rest of us don't?
The article says that the Captain at Station 1 said "... whoever is doing this needs to stop.", indicating that they didn't know who did it.
April 10, 2011 at 5:59 p.m.a locker in a workplace is not private property
April 10, 2011 at 1:42 p.m.I have to agree with the majority of the people on here. The firefighters were just playing around with each other and should never have been fired over it. I'm surprised this even got out, what with all the stuff Ratcliff and many others got away with and kept it hush hush. This is not a big deal, give the firemen their jobs back and move on.
April 10, 2011 at 8:25 a.m.Mike5011ad, you are missing what happened here. The leadership punished the firefighters that put the pictures in the locker (private) by firing them. The same management did nothing to the firefighters who posted them on the bulletin board (public) at the other station, which is where the escalation started in the first place. That is where the inconsistency lies and reason for questioning the leadership here.
April 10, 2011 at 7:52 a.m.I too work for the taxpayer, but I don't work for the city. I am a non-comissioned officer in the US army. We have a zero tolerence policy for things like this because our actions impact the public's faith in who we are and what we do. Police officers and firefighters are our city counterparts who also fit that discription. They have a dangerous job and also require the public's trust in order to effectively work. Putting pictures like this up on a public work board creates what some could deem a "hostile working environment" regardless if the person it was meant for was offended or not. Agree with it or not, that is the law which applies to their workplace. If the leadership allows some of the rules to be bent, what other rules are they allowing to be bent?
I don't know enough about the actual case in order to say if they should or should not have been fired, but I do applaud the leadership for doing the right thing and acting on this issue rather than sweeping it under the rug because things like this tend to turn into a slippery slope. Every "joke" tends to push the limit a little more and more until something serious happens. That is why "zero-tolerance" policies are in place. It is to protect everyone, including the tax-payer.
The firefighters have a tough job. Professionalism and discipline are needed from them in order for them to perform their life-threatening jobs with the attention that it needs and deserves. A professional work environment will only help them perform their job to the highest degree.
April 10, 2011 at 1:05 a.m.Seriously think its ridiculous how out of hand this situation has gotten. Really upsetting how easy it has been for people to bash our guys in the fire department. It shouldnt have been done, but lets face it, there are far worse things that have gone on in many other places in this "great city." So what of the grills, exercise equipment, recliners, this is their home for 24-48 hours at a time, thats another story. I hate that VFD is getting a bad rep at this time, and want to leave with a positive note, you guys are amazing, while others are running out, you are running into a burning home/building, whether its a toothache, constipation, or trauma, heart attack, you guys run each call efficiently and on top of your game!!! Hang in there guys, there are people out here whose priorities are more important things than this.
April 9, 2011 at 11:14 p.m.EMS30---Benefits?? HA! Benefits with the COV is HORRIBLE! My hubby had better pay AND better benefits working at his previous job! He is a paid firefighter as well...let me inform everyone...he doesn't get paid that much...and hes not a rookie either! I dont know where your hubby works but obviously its not with the COV if you consider his benefits as "good"...I dont consider the deductible "good" by any means!
April 9, 2011 at 6:17 p.m.WoofWoof, I'm glad you know how to copy and paste from the website below to make it look like you are smart enough to think for yourself. Cheat much in school?
April 9, 2011 at 1:08 p.m.http://www.heritage.org/research/repo...
Lamppost- your comments are foolish. Did it occur to you that while these two firefighers are not working, another two have to take their place? The world doesn't stop making 911 calls just because they are low on firefighters, which means that they have to find new firefighters to replace them, or pay overtime to the existing ones to work 48 hours on and 24 off. 24 hours overtime every other day equals a lot of money....Which means, more of your tax money is being paid to those working the overtime in the mean time. Not less.
April 9, 2011 at 11:53 a.m.I think they have learned their lesson. Give them their jobs back. They obviously know that it shouldn't have been done and I bet you they will never do anything remotely close to a joke again, for fear it be taken the wrong way again.
lamppost wrote "I wonder if everyone in here would be so forgiving if thet Firefighter who was ovbiouslly offended, took his complaint to his lawyer rather then reporting the incident and suied the City for 1 or 2 million."(sic)
the headlines of the advocate today say " Targeted firefighter says he wasn't offended by photographs"
Only one of these two is telling the truth. I believe the firefighter that the joke was pulled on knows whether he was offended or not therefore I believe that the firefighter is the one with the truth not " lamppost."
It should be obvious by now that the the leadership in the fire department is way over-reacting to this situation as this situation could have been handled so much better. You don't fire good men over this. Discipline maybe, but not firing. True leadership looks for ways to support and train your firefighters not ways to fire them. Our fire department needs a few good men and these guys have proven themselves year after year to have the right stuff.
April 9, 2011 at 11:49 a.m."Public workers are already riding the gravy train at the expense of everyone else."
I thought everyone in here would be happy these guys got canned.
They are a drain on the taxpayers, right?
----------------------------------------------------------
You're kidding right?
Fire fighters are truly the ONLY civil servants we need no matter what. Start firing cops before fire fighters...
April 9, 2011 at 11:39 a.m.JD...Ahhh, I see. In your eyes, nudity equals porn. Or maybe it was the suggestive part? Sounds like you could be a VFD supervisor.
April 9, 2011 at 11:16 a.m.Good post,Lamppost..... I might add that the new Chief might be sending a "from this day forward " message.....I think we all know just because everyone remained silent in the past, doesn't mean they approved of the shenanigans. A hostile free environment and an occasional prank might be hard to distinguish but one firefighter said ""There are numerous examples of horseplay/practical jokes that violate VFD and city of Victoria policy that have occurred during my employment tenure."....Should the firefighters be terminated? That's for the chief and assistant city manager Bruce Ure to decide.
April 9, 2011 at 11:15 a.m."Public workers are already riding the gravy train at the expense of everyone else."
I thought everyone in here would be happy these guys got canned.
They are a drain on the taxpayers, right?
April 9, 2011 at 11:08 a.m.Lamppost...I wouldn't be bashing the city for not firing the guys. I'd be bashing the thin-skinned fool who went to the lawyer AND I'd be bashing the lawyer for taking the case to seek half of whatever take he could extort out of the city.
April 9, 2011 at 11:07 a.m.to thewaywardwind: From the second paragraph of the article which consists of the following line: "The photographs of nude men, some in suggestive poses, were put in his locker at Victoria Fire Station No. 2.". Sorry....sounds like porn to me.
April 9, 2011 at 10:59 a.m.I wonder if everyone in here would be so forgiving if thet Firefighter who was ovbiouslly offended, took his complaint to his lawyer rather then reporting the incident and suied the City for 1 or 2 million.
I’m sure everyone in here would be bashing the City because they didn’t fire these guys.
What if all the Firefighters were told, “Alright people, we have a new Chief and the monkey business has to stop. We need to have a more professional attitude. Some practical jokes are fine, but we need to keep them clean.”
What if all the Firefighters were told on a completely separate occasion, “We really need to clean up our act. We have been pretty lax around here, but with all this press about the City, the last thing we need is some law suit about harassment.”
The article says,
In her statement, she also said, "While I knew the pictures were wrong and inappropriate, I did not report this to Interim Chief (Roger) Hempel or acting Battalion Chief (Clifton) Bayer as I was not offended by the pictures and I chose to handle it inhouse."
What if the person who reported this was tired of the “Good ol’ Boy “ system of “handle it inhouse” and decided that this incident needed to get out in the open instead of sweeping it under the rug?
Someone in here said “Attitude and behavior is a direct reflection of leadership”
I disagree with that statement, because that’s the age old “Well if they do it, then I’m gonna do it too” excuse.
I guess I’m gonna tell you like your Dad told you when you were growing up, “I don’t care what everyone else is doing. If everyone jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?”
Smokechaser said it best, “Grow up, act appropriately and remember who you are really working for, the citizens and taxpayers of Victoria.”
April 9, 2011 at 10:55 a.m.JD...Where did you get the idea the pictures were pornographic? There is a large gulf between "suggestive" and "pornographic." On a scale of offensiveness from one to ten, with one being something you could post on the bulletin board at church and ten being porn, these photos -- strictly judging by the description in the story -- would rate about a three-point-seven.
April 9, 2011 at 10:48 a.m.Smokechaser..."Grow up, act appropriately and remember who you are really working for, the citizens and taxpayers of Victoria."
Speaking as a citizen and taxpayer of Victoria, I believe the caper was not offensive -- against policy perhaps, but not offensive -- and the fire department vastly over reacted by firing these two men. I never realized that one of the job requirements for being a supervisor was to be a world class prude. Thanks VFD for making Victoria a laughing stock -- again. I didn't think things could get worse than the silly games played by the county DA and the city police department, but I guess the fire department muckety-mucks couldn't stand the PD getting all the publicity.
April 9, 2011 at 10:32 a.m.Seems likely they were fired for the wrong reason. The City almost assuredly has a policy on misuse of department computers and Internet service, and I'm sure the viewing and downloading of pornography (for whatever purpose) would be prohibited.
April 9, 2011 at 10:29 a.m.I believe this whole situation is ridiculous and was not handled correctly. From all that has been reported I'm not sure why these guys were fired.
Who was offended by thier behavior? Were they fired because of policy? And if so, are all situations like this handled the same way or is it left up to the powers that be to decide who gets fired and who gets a slap on the hand? Had these employees been in trouble before for the same type of behavior? And if so how was it handled then?
Many unanswered questions if you ask me. But hey, at least Victoria is getting publicity from it. We made the news in Fort Worth.
April 9, 2011 at 10:12 a.m.Bring your boots to Victoria and watch what we do to FireFighters who misbehave! The world is laughing at us again!
How did the Paper obtain information via The Act since Exception 108 would be reason enough for the City to not disclose anything related to this incidence until an internal investigation had been completed. I wonder if there are any pin ups of any females half naked in those fire departments. I bet those guys who may have those kinds of pictures never got in trouble nor did they do the "what would your mother say" test either. I'm a female and this is just silly. My bf is a volunteer ff and horseplay is just part of the game. So a paper was accidentally printed to Station 1's printer. Why didn't whoever posted it up there get fired also? Let the men go back to what they love. They've done a lot more service to this City than harm. For what it's worth to the two being scrutinized over having a sense of humor ... Thanks for your service to this backward city. Thanks for taking care of things the rest of us thought were too hot to handle. :-)
April 9, 2011 at 8:44 a.m.WoofWoof, you are SOOO right on, it is not funny. Keep up the good fight and know that there are many, many that agree with you!
gibson's comment, "Get behind our public workers and REALLY show that we support them", is ridiculous! Public workers are already riding the gravy train at the expense of everyone else. If they don't appreciate what they have, then they are free to quit and see how they like the private sector.
Again, Good Job, WoofWoof. There is no way to improve on what you have posted.
April 9, 2011 at 7:44 a.m.Woofwoof does understand the difference between CS and collective bargaining. But more importantly the difference from private sector jobs and *government* jobs.
The federal pay system gives the average federal employee hourly cash earnings 22 percent above the average private worker’s, controlling for observable skills and characteristics.
April 9, 2011 at 6:57 a.m.Including non-cash benefits adds to this disparity. The average private-sector employer pays $9,882 per employee in annual benefits, while the federal government pays an average of $32,115 per employee.
Overall, controlling for other factors, federal employees earn approximately 30 percent to 40 percent more in total compensation (wages and benefits) than comparable private-sector workers.
Federal employees enjoy job security irrespective of the state of the economy. Since the recession began, federal employment has risen by 240,000—12 percent. The unemployment rate for federal employees has only slightly risen from 2.0 percent to 2.9 percent between 2007 and 2009.
Federal employees demonstrate with their actions that they receive better compensation in the public sector than in the private sector: They quit their jobs at one-third the rate of the private employees.
Bringing federal compensation in line with private-sector compensation would save taxpayers approximately $47 billion in 2011.
Keep up the con job with Obama, Al Sharpton, you, and Eric Holder and I will just keep on paying taxes for your lifestyle.
Woofwoof please be informed is all I am asking. If you were, you obviously would know civil service has nothing to do with what you just listed. You are thinking of collective bargaining which is completely different and is not even part of civil service.
April 9, 2011 at 6:39 a.m.Interim Head /chief, Battalion/chief, Lieutenant/chief, Human Resources/chief, Assistant City Manager/chief, City Manager chief, Head lawsuit/chief...
Any lowly taxpayers get it?
April 9, 2011 at 5:18 a.m.If every employee in Victoria got fired for playing a practice joke on a fellow worker, our unemployment lines would be quite long. They learned their lesson. Losing their jobs was a little harsh in my opinion.
April 9, 2011 at 2:25 a.m.We need Civil Service protection for Big lazy boy recliners, new exercise equipment, big flat screens, play stations, comfy beds, big rigs for groups of hoseholders to take to HEB in order buy food to cook at the station, BBQ grills out back, and a work schedule that allows this and overtime and retirement after 20 years to start a new Fire Chief job.
Kinda like my job.
You go Heroes!
April 9, 2011 at 2:21 a.m."I'm not saying that if they broke city policy that these guys shouldnt be punished but termination seems rather harsh for what was committed."
I'm tending to agree with RangerDanger, here... Print your policy, have all staff sign policy, have the ff demoted, have them sign a letter saying they are duly warned, etc. then let the men know you mean business, the 2nd time they horseplay...
April 9, 2011 at 2:08 a.m.Hey smokechaser I respect what you have to say because you are a fireman. In case you or anyone else have not figured it out by my posts I am a COV firefighter. The problem at hand is much simpler. There is even a Bible verse about it.......it goes something like.... those of you with no sin cast the first stone. My point is how can the boys (firefighters) know what they are doing is wrong when the men (supervisors) are doing the same thing and receive no or very little punishment for it? Attitude and behavior is a direct reflection of leadership.................. so smokechaser in your PROFESSIONAL opinion (unless you are a volunteer) please explain to me why these guys lost their jobs and as you put it their "livelyhood" be treated any different than the supervisor (mentioned in earlier posts )that violated the same policy but kept his job. The issue is not whether they did something wrong(THEY OBVIOUSLY SCREWED UP) it is whether they received the same treatment as others in similar situations. And unless you are BLIND the answer is obviously NO.
April 9, 2011 at 1:04 a.m.I have worked my entire life mainly around nothing but men and things like this have always been commonplace. I wish we could go back to a time when people were'nt so sensitive about everything. How can you do something offensive if the person who saw it was'nt offended? I'm not saying that if they broke city policy that these guys shouldnt be punished but termination seems rather harsh for what was committed.
April 9, 2011 at 12:52 a.m.Just an observation ................ how is the city manager supposed to have an impartial view of this incident in her final decision if all of the supposed facts where released to the media (which is in direct violation of the city policy on internal investigations,if anyone is interested) prior to the final steps of the grievance process? Again just another good ol' boy tactic! Cmon citizens of Victoria how much longer are you gonna let "Slick Willie" and the good ol' boy system manipulate you? CIVIL SERVICE dictates how this situation is handled without union involvement.
April 9, 2011 at 12:41 a.m.It is a Job, it is a workplace, inappropiate behavior can not be explained away by the mens (boys) club mentality. Positive recognition is due the supervisors who did their jobs, by taking action and reporting the behavior. It is a shame that 2 individuals have lost their jobs and livelyhood. It is too bad that they didn't apply the very simple "what would your mother say about this" test before engaging in their "prank" As a long term firefighter and supervisor (not in Victoria) this incident meets the Pogo principle "We have met the enemy and it is us" Grow up, act appropriately and remember who you are really working for, the citizens and taxpayers of Victoria.
April 9, 2011 at 12:29 a.m.HELL YEA I LOVE MY JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CIVIL SERVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get on the bandwagon Victoria Fire and Police Departments show the COV you are serious and want to protect equality! Get behind our public employees and REALLY show that we support them. Informed voters please look into this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!If you really care about where your tax dollars go then support what you believe and not what means the most to you. Just a comment from a concerned citizen.
April 9, 2011 at 12:28 a.m.VOTE CIVIL SERVICE!!! Protect our heroes from selective enforcement from the City!!!
April 8, 2011 at 10:36 p.m.whole lot of stupid going on those chain of events.
April 8, 2011 at 10:32 p.m.@ gibson
Your 100% right but Slick Willie and the lap dogs will anything to not let it happen. If and when they PD and FD go for it the people of Victoria need to get behind they to show the corrupted city council its whats best for the city. Dave, Joe, and Gabe if you read this please dont let city hall lie to the public about CIVIL SERVICE being a bad thing!
April 8, 2011 at 10:30 p.m.This is from this story. Its a flat out lie. They know who put it up. He was told to take it down and then he put it back up! "At Station 1, some of the photographs were placed on a bulletin board, but a captain threw them away and, according to her statement, told firefighters there, "...whoever is doing this needs to stop. This is inappropriate and should not be printed at work."
April 8, 2011 at 10:11 p.m.Two words for the firefighters and police officers of Victoria...........................CIVIL SERVICE........in other words chapter 143 of the Texas local government code. Informed voters of Victoria please look in to this and realize it will eliminate the "Good ol' boy system. Don't assume this is the same thing as the autoworkers and huge labor unions, its not Texas is a right to work state, meaning the state has the power not the unions. All civil service does is protect the city employees from unfair practices. Be informed not misinformed. Either let the city continue to do whatever they want to do or force them to follow the same rules as all the other cities in the state and vote in cicil service. Oh and by the way there has NEVER been a tax rate increase due to a city going cicvil service. Again be informed. Protect the ones that protect us!
April 8, 2011 at 9:36 p.m.Don't you remember Bobby, all you have to do is call the SO and ask the sheriff. He said he would allow Joe Citizen to enjoy the same surprise birthday gift for his son.
April 8, 2011 at 9:32 p.m.Selective enforcement of policy has reared its ugly head on a number of occasions in Victoria. This particular incident resulted in termination, yet the use (make that "abuse") of manpower, county vehicles (and county fuel) to play a practical joke on the son of a department head was allowed to occur without even a slap on the wrist for those involved.
Unfortunately, some things never change...
April 8, 2011 at 9:16 p.m.