Deeds not words.
I'm staying away from this one...don't drag me into it. La Barbie was supposedly responsible for the killings in Acupulco...he is an American, just thought I'd throw that in since it was mentioned.
You are just mad that Victorian by Birth torn you limb from limb last week therefore I'll let you have it. If you have been reading the question was "If there is any historical achievement by "legal Mexicans" that contributed to building America at that time, please share it with us".
Where did I say anything about illegals???? N45BA. You are looking for a fight and yes you have found one.
Henry Cisneros did pay for his mistresses condo from his re-election campaign funds, that has to count for something.
Cheaer Chavez? Rah Rah!
As your Most Highness, your Majestic and War Lord over the VICAD forum, I muse say you are still wrong. I do not know where you went to school or what history book you read. Hispanics and Mexico have and had made contributions to American Society. To you, it may be irrelevant but it is still what is it is. Please do not expect me to issue an apology. Why would you like those who declared 50 years old ago that Blacks didn’t contributed?
You forgot about Hispanic/Mexican/Mexican-Americans like Cheaer Chavez, Benito Juarez, and others
Seriously dude, get a grip! Of all that I shared with you and with the community members, you opt to do a "selective reading" and pick the most irrelevant, one-line statement I said and do a public dress-down on me. You called me an Uncle Tom because I said there are no evidence of, even, legal Mexicans having contributed to building America?
I hope you're better than that, dude. By now, you should KNOW I'm as proud to be Black-American as much as my fellow Whites are proud to be White Americans. I'm especially proud that we're all Americans, and would like to think, on issues like this, we'd come together because of the bond of: God, Country and Patriotism.
Let's, instead, clear up this misunderstanding. I don't hate you, Writein. I just think you're too quick to jump the gun without weighting in the full gravity of the issue of illegal immigration.
My comment of legal Mexicans haven't help built America..... keep in mind, these people go out claiming they're the "immigrants" that help built America. In our history books, the only "immigrants" that actually help built America (keey words here: HELP BUILT AMERICA) are Blacks, Asians and Irish. I covered their contribution in the early beginning of America when the White man arrive.
If there is any historical achievement by "legal Mexicans" that contributed to building America at that time, please share it with us. I delight to know this "history" if it's out there. Maybe the information is cloaked and take a special someone, like yourself, yo reveal to us. We'll be waiting on that special, best-kept secret of "legal Mexicans" helped built America.
Until then, I'll shut-up and yield the podium to Your Highness, Your Majestic, Lord over the board to educate us peasant on a history we do not know............
Again it seems that you need to GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT !!!!!!! I suggest before you assume and make up things . Read my BLOG on IMMIGRATION ( http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/weblo... ) IN THAT BLOG I SPELL OUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THE BORDER AND IMMIGRATION !!!!!!
“1) Build temporary wall, Physical or laser sensor, along the Southern Border for 20 years.2) Create a task force group to combat drug lords and coyotes on the border.3) Heavily fine cities and counties that aid illegal immigration. 4) Punish any police officer or citizen who violates the 4th amendment , the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Acts. 5) Punish those who mistreat illegal aliens. 6) Heavy fine, punish, or deport an illegal .7) A child (16 and under) born to an illegal is America citizen under the 14th amendment, he or she shall be deported with the parents.8) Ease the pathway for citizenship. Limit immigration from Eastern World,9) Create more guest worker programs.10) Create a American Foreign Legion to encourage or draft Illegal alien males to become citizens11) End NAFTA and place high tariffs on countries that produce illegal immigration.12) Granted the government to sue, take over, and/or close down Corporations and businesses that hire Illegal immigrants.13) Land grants from the 1800’s must be studied, honored and carried out, if possible.”
Get this though your head. My problem with you isn’t because you’re black or your views on Illegal Immigration. NO MY PROBLEM IS THIS STATEMENT FROM YOU, “ There are no history books, no evidence of any such contribution by illegal alien, Mexicans. Not even by legal Mexicans.”
So in your opinion, Legal Mexicans are the problem in this society?
I wonder if you can read. I asked this question not to attack you, but to make sure where you are at. Every posts I made lately , you always say that you are confuse or do not understand. Let me make myself clear. My opinion about Illegals and Illegal immigration is similar to yours. A few months ago, you were agreeing with me on my blog entitled “ An ALTERNATIVE IMMIGRATION POLICY”. Which I do have the link for your own enjoyment ( http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/weblo... ). GET IT THOUGH YOUR HEAD, WWW. I was beginning to like you until you sided with FREE WITH CLEAR.
How can you sit there and AMEN HIM when he made a racist comment. Should I repeat the statement by Free N Clear where he targeted Legal Mexicans? “Mexicans did absolutely NOTHING to build America. There are no history books, no evidence of any such contribution by illegal alien, Mexicans. Not even by legal Mexicans. None. And its a slap in the face to every African-American and Americans alike for them to continue to spout that crap about "helped built America."“
Legal Mexicans? Come on Waywardwind. Shame on you for making this statement, “ The problem is, you see racists everywhere you look. T'ain't so McGee. The "progressives" have so polluted the debate that they paint everyone who loves the country and wants to protect it from illegal invaders as racist and hate-mongers. Unfortunately, you've swallowed that hook, line and sinker.”
With that statement, you ALREADY ASSUME I hate this country. You ALREADY ASSUME that I back Illegal Immigration. YOU ALREADY ASSUME I am a follower of Progressives. The problem with you, that you see things as Red or blue when there’s shades of purple. Just because I HAVE A DIFFERENT OUTLOOK doesn’t mean I hate America, support Progressivism, and support illegal immigration. I have a different outlook because your ideology (Conservative/Libratarianism) and others (Liberalism/Socialism) doesn’t work. THERE ARE MORE TO THIS NATION, THEN THOSE LABELS. If you think I am yelling at you, YES I AM and shame on you for assuming things I didn’t mean or say,.
This is why Victorian By Birth torn you a new one late last week on the Abortion topic. Maybe you should mind your own business. The problem I have with FREE N CLEAR isn’t his views on Illegal immigration ( WHICH I AGREE), but his COMMENT ABOUT LEGAL MEXICANS. PUT IT THOUGH YOUR HEAD, LEGAL MEXICANS. THAT’S MY PROBLEM WITH HIM.
READ HIS COMMENTS…..”There are no history books, no evidence of any such contribution by illegal alien, Mexicans. Not even by legal Mexicans.”
Oh boy, FnC:
Don’t make me regret my last post. Please don't go off on some conspiracy theory whack job rant with underground rag links. Your sounded like you were more grounded than that. So much for encouragement. I suppose it's back to "Goofy for president".
Just thought I share this article with you....and really to all my fellow Americans. This article exact my sentiments in every sense of the word on how I feel about illegal immigration.
The Progressive Left (which is probably what you are) equate illegal immigration to Black's Civil Rights and that's really a slap in the face to every African-American in America.
OK. I have changed my political following. FREE_N_CLEAR for president!!!
Your militant attitude could rival my own! You hollering about me being an Uncle Tom and hate Mexicans and claiming to know about La Raza and Mecha --- if you know about La Raza and Mecha, how could you be fine with that and opt to attack me for holding the views I do against a Mexican Invasion??
This is nothing but posturing from you, simply because I'm black. It's the age-old, "pulling a brother down" mentality. Even boasting some feeble attempt of "having credibility" as if you right about everything you say. Never mind that more than 50% of the country stands with me. Never mind all I told you are FACTS (no lies!).
Matter of fact, I'ma educate you again! I will provide information of what Mecha is, for you to READ, COMPREHEND.....hopefully it'll knock that stupid, egotistical attitude straight outta your ***!
Calling me an Uncle Tom?? You're so clueless, fella. I'm standing up for my BLACK PEOPLE when I stand against illegal immigration! I'm standing up for my FELLOW AMERICANS when I stand against illegal immigration!
You standing up for nobody but YOURSELF because you don't know what you talking about. You have no facts! What you mistaken for facts is actually your FEELINGS!
Here's several links:
There are many articles on the subject of La Raza and Mecha. I just picked out two that give a broad definition of, "What is Mecha" and the 2nd article shows how racist and destructive their views are including, KILLING WHITES AND BLACKS by means of ethnic cleansing.
Writein...These proposed laws and the proposed amendment to the 14th are not to attack the Hispanic citizens of the US. The laws are aimed DIRECTLY at people from whichever country who come into the US ILLEGALLY. No one from another country has a right to come here without being invited. (Chilidog still hasn't answered as to why people from south of the border don't have to follow the same rules that people from other parts of the world do.) There are laws in place that millions have disregarded. The federal government is charged with enforcing the immigration laws of this nation and they have failed to do that. If the feds won't enforce their laws, it is left to the states to pass and enforce laws of their own. I suppose there is no way to get you to understand that these laws are not aimed at American citizens, but those who come here illegally, but I and FnC have tried. FnC is correct about the aims of those who come here illegally to breed like flies and make new majorities. Their aim is not -- like migrations previously -- to come here, become American and positively contribute to their new country. Their aim is to drag the US down so that it is like Mexico and Costa Rica and the other hell-holes of Central America. FnC is right when he said this is YOUR country too, and you should join the fight to keep it. The problem is, you see racists everywhere you look. T'ain't so McGee. The "progressives" have so polluted the debate that they paint everyone who loves the country and wants to protect it from illegal invaders as racist and hate-mongers. Unfortunately, you've swallowed that hook, line and sinker.
By the way, the First person you need to educate around here is YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!! I see that you ignore Mr. John Lara’s post. I assume you see him and others like him as the enemy. I guess you also forgot about those Mexican American and legal Mexico who is in the military who had fought for your freedom to post racist comments about them.
Let’s get one thing straight, well a few things straight. First of all, I am not your brother. Second, your comments are based on lies and your own prejudice hatred of Hispanics. You are the BLACK VERISON OF HITLER! Third, you Do not, and I MEAN DO NOT talk to me like I ‘m stupid. I am fully aware of La RAZA, MECHA, and other movements. I didn’t fall off the turnip wagon. If you talk to me like I am stupid again, we WILL BE AT WAR on these forums and I WILL MAKE YOU FAMOUS ON HERE!!!!!!!! Fourth, your sorry behind need to do your research about me before opening up your mouth about me. You said that I have “no regard for the country's future ahead”. You should get your head out of your rear end and read a few things like this (http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/weblo... ) . I doubt you will since you are still have your “US VS. THEM”/ “ HANG THEM HIGH” MENTIALITY !!!!!!!!!!!The fifth and last thing is your hypocritical natural. How can you say “We need all of our "Americans" to be awake”, but yet say “There are no history books, no evidence of any such contribution by Not even by legal Mexicans. None. And its a slap in the face to every African-American and Americans alike for them to continue to spout that crap about "helped built America." And Yet you want to tell me that “I don't look at their people and want to "hate." Please……..Yes I am an American and PROUD OF IT. DO NOT YOU DARE ASSUME I AM REOUNCE MY COUNTRY AS WELL. Oh…and one last thing We maybe Americans, but I see you as the enemy as well. Now GET OUT OF MY SIGHT!!!!!!!!
If the intent of the law is to attack the Hispanic population, then I WILL VOTE AND FIGHT AGAINST IT !!!!!!!!!!
It's quite interesting the emotion you pack to response to me as an Uncle Tom. Not that I can't defend myself from this meritless charge, but I see a greater need and opportunity to educate a fellow American, FIRST, and then, a brother.
You live "here and now" with seemingly no regard for the country's future ahead. When I look at illegal immigration, I don't look at their people and want to "hate." I look at the well-being of my country; is it feasible? Is it wise? Why are they here and so forth.
Keep in mind, brother, this is your country as much as it is the White man. Now, if I had to choose to live with these, so-called, Uncle Toms supporters/White racists or the Mexican nationals that have morphed 12+ strong since the 90's, I'd DEFINTELY side with my fellow racist, Uncle Tom supporters, racist White man (we are AMERICANS!!) ---- and you BETTER too! Here's what you don't know about illegal aliens Mexicans' true intent on U.S. soil.
They are practicing, "Reconquista." This ideology springs from La Raza and Mecha (Chicano student group that believe all the south and southwestern states belong to them, and what they term, their "Altzan").
Their goal is to flood the states by reproducing at a ferocious rate and over-populate the states with Mexican nationals, which in turn, will influence state representatives, Govenors and districts to Mexican nationals. Their intent is NOT to assimilate but to keep with their own culture, language, heritage while destroying ours.
Once it is accomplished (and the results are gaining steam...just look at California, perfect example. Look at the population of illegal aliens in Texas... even Victoria). It's happening: a silent invasion!
If they accomplished this takeover, their next goal is to expel Blacks, Whites and Asians out of America and their first target are the Whites. Why? Because they represent a stronger patriotism for theis country, they understand how to stick together and fight better than us minorities (blacks and asians). So, as I said earlier, I would stand along side my fellow racist White Americans because we share the same love and patriotism for our country against an invading force of illegal alien Mexicans!
If you don't believe any of this, look up La Raza and Mecha...especially, Mecha. And believe it or not, the Dream Act would have legalized the very student-group that are doctrinated in the Mecha ideology. Thank God that act die a brutal death in the Senate and now, states are ratching up anti-illegal immigration laws and for good measure: The survival of our country depends one it! And you need to STOP this elementary, slave-mentality of targeting fellow White Americans. We've come along way. Laws have change and those days past. We need all of our "Americans" to be awake, in-tune to this invading force of illegal aliens.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
Writein...I don't know how your great-grandfathers fought and died for the 14th Amendment, but I'll take your word for it. You do understand, though, that even if the part of the 14th that grants brithright citizenship to children of illegals is changed it wouldn't affect YOUR citizenship or the citizenship of anyone who is already a citizen.
You wrote, "You are confuse because you fail to see the INTENT behind the words. If the intent is similar to that of Willie Lynch lover, FreeNClear then I would VOTE AGAINST it. If the the intent is to lives and laws of the land, I will VOTE FOR IT !"
Again, I don't understand your point. Which words am I confused about? The words of Lynch or the words of the amendment? Are you referring to the intent of the movement to change the amendment? That intent is exceptionally clear.
"If the the intent is to lives and laws of the land, I will VOTE FOR IT !" Uhhh, you'll vote for changing the amendment unless the intent is the same as FnC? I'm afraid you've lost me on this one.
You are confuse because you fail to see the INTENT behind the words. If the intent is similar to that of Willie Lynch lover, FreeNClear then I would VOTE AGAINST it. If the the intent is to lives and laws of the land, I will VOTE FOR IT !!!!!!!!
OVER MY DEAD BODY am I going to allow anyone touch the 14 amendment of the CONSTITUTION. My great grandfathers fought for it and died for it and I WILL NOT ALLOW A BUNCH OF SCARED OLD MEN TOUCHING IT !!!!!!!
Still waiting for Chilidog to tell me why those from south of the border can't abide by the same laws so many millions of others have followed.
Okay, J, I'm confused. Among your list of things you'd like to do as solutions, you want to punish people who violate the 4th and 14th Amendments as well as the civil rights acts. I'm not sure I understand what you want to do here, but I'll go on. You also make it very clear that children born here to illegals are citizens, but you want to deport them. Citizens can't be deported.
I don't want to tear up the Constitution. I want to use the means provided BY the Constitution to change one amendment -- the 14th -- to stop birthright citizenship from being granted to the children of illegal aliens and to have the due process requirements apply only to citizens and those here LEGALLY on visas. Using Constitutional means to change the 14th Amendment is hardly trashng the Constitution; it's following the Constitution. Look, I don't expect there will be an amendment even introduced in Congress to change the 14th. It's what I would like to see happen. The likelihood of that happening is somewhere between slim and none.
I am going to post on here and your wall. Willie Lynch is alive and well and living in your heart. Stop being a slave to him, “Tommy“.
Soultions from :
1) Build temporary wall, Physical or laser sensor, along the Southern Border for 20 years.2) Create a task force group to combat drug lords and coyotes on the border.3) Heavily fine cities and counties that aid illegal immigration. 4) Punish any police officer or citizen who violates the 4th amendment , the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Acts. 5) Punish those who mistreat illegal aliens. 6) Heavy fine, punish, or deport an illegal .7) A child (16 and under) born to an illegal is America citizen under the 14th amendment, he or she shall be deported with the parents.8) Ease the pathway for citizenship. Limit immigration from Eastern World,9) Create more guest worker programs.10) Create a American Foreign Legion to encourage or draft Illegal alien males to become citizens11) End NAFTA and place high tariffs on countries that produce illegal immigration.12) Granted the government to sue, take over, and/or close down Corporations and businesses that hire Illegal immigrants.13) Land grants from the 1800’s must be studied, honored and carried out, if possible.
There IS NO NEED to change the 14th amendment of the Constitution. You accuse the president of tearing up the Constitution, but what is the difference of you doing the same?
As to my first part to my earlier post, don‘t try to talk dumb to me. Here was your statement“IF the parents don't care about their kids, why should I? If mama and daddy sneak across the Rio Grande and have kids here, and, as a result those kids don't get US citizenship, it's no skin off my nose”
FreeNClear.Your name should be Free-N-Clear of Common Sense after I read your bigoted statement, “ Mexicans did absolutely NOTHING to build America. There are no history books, no evidence of any such contribution by illegal alien, Mexicans. Not even by legal Mexicans. None. And its a slap in the face to every African-American and Americans alike for them to continue to spout that crap about "helped built America."You are an Uncle TOM, nothing more nothing less. Yes I am a proud BLACK MAN it is sickening to see a man or color blasting other. I guess you forgot about that Mexico was once anti-slavery before the White man came and took over Texas.
I bet my bottom dollar, the Victoria Adovcate won't delete your silly comment.
some walk bridges have to be cheaper than that program
dont cubans have their own special rules ?
Writein..."Any person who is born on American soil is AMERICAN CIZITEN NO IF AND OR BUTS."
Uhhh, J, I've never said otherwise. That pesky 14th Amendment and it's blanket birthright citizenship for anybody who managed to swim the river or hike the desert is the reason I've been contending that it is time to change the amendment to eliminate brithright citizenship to babies who don't have at least ONE parent who is a US citizen. Any bill that happens to be passed by a state or the federal government that is designed to deny birthright citizenship to illegals is doomed to failure because the 14th Amendment trumps any laws to the contrary. Changing the Constitution is the only way to eliminate this problem.
As for as the first part of your post, I don't have a clue what you're ranting about.
keep the people that want to work and continue their education, start getting rid of the dead weight.
regardless of where they were born and where their parents were born
Immigration wasn't an issue then, and certainly not illegal immigration, so Dred Scott did not pertain to that. And, immigrants are not brought here against their will. Slaves did not have a choice.
You are correct!!!!!!!!
The only thing you care about is yourself. Long as it doesn’t affects you, then you don’t care. Any person who is born on American soil is AMERICAN CIZITEN NO IF AND OR BUTS. This superiority complex is a part of the problem here. You forgot to read some of the court ruling in the 1870’s -1890’s concerning immigration and the 14th amendment.
Let me say this, there will be a huge backlash against the conservative Texas government on this in 2012, 2014, and in 2016.
No, Dred Scott had to do with babies born to those who had been "brought" to America to be slaves, specifically.
"And finally Dred Scott had nothing to do with Mexico" I didn't say it did.It has everything to do with babies born in America being citizens, plain and simple.
That should say just prior to the war not during.
Texas belonged to the Republic of Texas not Mexico during the Mexican War. Mexico had about 8,000 residents in the rest of the territory in question. To say they owned it is laughable.
And finally Dred Scott had nothing to do with Mexico.
You can interpret your history as you wish, but there is a reason we signed a treaty with Mexico in 1848 called the “The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo."
The 14th Amendment did not come out of thin air in 1868. It’s roots go back to 1857, You know that pesky Dred Scott ruling. Just ten years after the massive naturalization of Mexicans.
Ignore all the history you wish, but Texas and the Spanish Southwest, was Mexican. So was Victoria.
Now "this" is an interesting read.
"The 14th amendment was passed shortly after we invaded Mexico, took nearly half of its territory"........What the ?????
Where did you learn history? The 14th amendment was passed after the Civil War approximately 20 years after the Mexican War. And as far as taking Mexican territory that is a myth, Mexico did not occupy or control any of this territory.
In Texas the Comanche's ran off, killed or captured all the Mexican settlers. That's why the Americans were encouraged to colonize Texas to provide a buffer between the Mexicans and the Comanche.
When the 14th amendment was enacted no one had any idea there would be a large flood of illegal aliens across our long southern border. This invasion became very massive in the 1970's after the US enacted the Great Society welfare programs.
The US is the safety valve for Mexico relieving them of large numbers of people who are unemployed, uneducated and unskilled - in return we get Mexico's scorn and the expense and crime of our new "citizens."
And one last thing the claim that there are only 12 million illegal aliens in the US is laughable.
The 14th amendment was passed shortly after we invaded Mexico, took nearly half of it’s territory, made all the Mexicans in our “Spanish Southwest” Americans citizens, and created the word “Mexican-American.” Do you people really think the authors of the 14th amendment were concerned about “Mexican” babies born in America after this massive naturalization?
When the going gets tough, the tough stomp on the infants.
OMG!! I'm having flashbacks of that crazy conspiracy theory whack job that we had the unfortunate opportunity to meet in Arkansas last year. You and her would hit it off wonderfully. I can see it now...sitting in front of the computer with aluminum foil helmets...
I guess they think they are special
Chilidog..."So your solution is to let children suffer with inadequate medical care or even to die?"
Uhhh, well, gee, I guess mama and daddy could always take them back home for treatment.
Chilidog, I have some questions for you and I'd appreciate honest answers. What do you have against the rules, the immigration laws that are in place in the United States that millions -- tens of millions of people have followed to immigrate to the US and become citizens? Why should not the people from south of the border be expected to follow those same rules? If Germans and Irish and Swedes and Scots can somehow follow the rules, why can Mexicans and Hondurans, and Colombians not seem to do the same thing?
I'm sure you know that the immigration laws of Mexico are pretty stiff and the penalties for breaking those laws are draconian. Would you mind if the US mirrored those Mexican immigration laws and applied them to Mexican nationals who come here illegally?
B2bm: "and mexicans and other illegal aliens are members of soverign nations outside the United States, so?"===============================
But when Mexicans, say, are in the U.S. they are under the Jurisdiction of U.S. laws. Anyone born in the U.S. regardless of the status of the parent is under the jurisdiction of U.S. laws.
When the 14th amendment was written, Indian tribes were NOT under the jurisdiction of U.S. laws. At that time as sovereign nations, they operated under their own laws. Over time, that autonomy has been lost, but at the same time, Indians are now considered U.S. citizens at birth (Indian Citizenship Act of 1824)
That is a major difference.
You and I will never agree on this issue, so why bother? It will be up to the courts anyway, so what you and I think really doesn't play into it.Just remember that other countries had to stop granting automatic citizenship and the US will have to do the same thing. There are those that are taking advantage of it way too much for it to survive much longer. Americans are getting angrier and angrier and they will elect those into office who will change it one day, because they will have no other choice. How long that will be is anyone's guess.
Chilidog...You said that if the kids aren't granted US citizenship when they are born here and the parents country refuses them, they might end up stateless. You asked what I'd do about that. Okay, here goes. IF the parents don't care about their kids, why should I? If mama and daddy sneak across the Rio Grande and have kids here, and, as a result those kids don't get US citizenship, it's no skin off my nose. You say stateless persons would be ripe for exploitation. Okay, and....? You may get the idea that I really don't care about them. You'd be correct.
and mexicans and other illegal aliens are members of soverign nations outside the United States, so?
Born2BM: "If you remember right, the original 14th amendment did not include Indian children, so just because they were born on this soil, didn't make them automatic citizens."=========================================Indians are members of sovereign nations within the U.S, with treaty rights.
Are you suggesting we grant illegal immigrants treaty rights in the U.S.?
FnC wrote: "It will come up against in the Supreme Court with the current illegal immigration mess and it will decided against that illegal aliens are not protected under the 14th Amendment. I don't know how else to make you see this unless you read up on cases in the Supreme Court on the 14th Amendment."=============================
No they won't.
The 14th amendment is quite clear. there is no way to parse the language to meet your interpretations. Even Scalia would have to agree with that. (If he didn't he would be reversing his own past opinions.)
FnC: "You keep thinking it applies to illegal aliens when it doesn't."========================
That is correct. If you read my posts, you will see that that is exactly what I said.
the 14th amendment does not confer citizenship on illegal aliens.
However, it is not illegal to be born in this country, and a person born in this country is not an alien.
In other words. The children of illegal aliens, born here in this country are not illegal aliens themselves. The are not aliens and you do not need a visa or a green card to be born.
FnC wrote: "If they have the right to recieve an education under the 14th Amendment then they have to prove that they are, in fact, citizens of the U.S. --- the fact they are illegal aliens (or their parents are illega aliens), making them nothing more than criminal lawbreakers."===========================
Look up Plyler v. Doe.
Children of illegal immigrants are entitled to public education.
I find it odd that support for a bill that is trying to curtail an illegal activity is publicly being called bigoted and racist. How one can equate a dislike for an illegal activity to a hatred of a race is beyond me.
This is about ILLEGAL-immigration, not immigration. When the word Mexican is used, it's meaning is the nationality not the race, I'm pretty sure that Mexican is not a race anyway.
I find it offensive that white people, or any other non-Hispanic/Chicano/Latino person, is labeled as being anti-immigration, or racist just because they do not support ILLEGAL-immigration.
What is so hard for LULAC, La Raza, et al. to understand in the difference between the definitions of the two?
I'm not anti-immigration. Hell, if I was I wouldn't be here. I'm anti-ILLEGAL-immigration. Follow the rules. I know it's hard and takes a long time, but most things worth doing are.
I think the 14th amendment does cover babies born to illegal aliens. I refuse to buy into the stupid idea of anchor babies. Please. There are plenty of other reasons to sneak into America.
We should not pay entitlements to non-citizens...period. I don't think we should pay them at all, but that's another debate.
America should educate Americans first. We are moving the wrong way on the education scale and we've got to do something about it. Colleges and Universities should accept Americans over non-citizens.
If you remember right, the original 14th amendment did not include Indian children, so just because they were born on this soil, didn't make them automatic citizens.
And the first part, "All person born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof..."
We have illegal aliens, key word: illegal aliens (not citizens but ILLEGAL ALIENS) that came here for the sole purpose to make a baby and continue to stick with the Mexican culture and language without assimilating or adopting the American culture, language (even after YEARS of being here).
Now tell us, Chilidog, did the Founding Fathers intended for these illegal aliens to be grant citizenships with their profound refusal to assimilate and put America FIRST over their own country, Mexico?
Here's part of the 14 Amendment, Chilidog,
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.
The last sentence: 'No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of CITIZENS of the United States.
It's straight-forward put an end to your "speculation" if illegals are required by law to get an education in a country they are NOT citizens.
Anything else to say Chilidog.....???
Chilidog, your interpretation of the 14th Amendment is misleading. You're not exactly understanding the 14th Amendment. You keep thinking it applies to illegal aliens when it doesn't. I suggested earlier that you read up on Supreme Court cases of foreigners and the 14th Amemdment.
It will come up against in the Supreme Court with the current illegal immigration mess and it will decided against that illegal aliens are not protected under the 14th Amendment. I don't know how else to make you see this unless you read up on cases in the Supreme Court on the 14th Amendment.
It was meant for children of African Americans slave. That's the true intent, as far as immigrant --- those immigrants was mainly African AMericans and meant for them, not illegal alien, Mexicans.
I once knew a man that tried to feed the world. He died of starvation...
Chilidog, you are wrong.
If they have the right to recieve an education under the 14th Amendment then they have to prove that they are, in fact, citizens of the U.S. --- the fact they are illegal aliens (or their parents are illega aliens), making them nothing more than criminal lawbreakers.
That's why we will enact a bill to require they show valid SSN. What we will do is match that child's SSN in our system and identify if the "parent" is indeed a U.S. citizen. If not, that child will not be allow to attend public schooling in the U.S.
Make English the official language of Texas. --- Violates the equal protection clause Require SS for children enrolling in Texas public school system. --- Violates the equal protection clause.Deny welfare to illegal aliens (including SS benefits) --- Curently illegal aliens are not eleigible for SS benefits. Require employers to use E-Verify and a hefty fine if knowingly hired illegal aliens. ---- Fine, go with that. Denied birthright citizenship. End Anchor Babies laws and amnesty. --- violates the 14th amendment.
Born2beme, the rights of children to receive public education or public health services are guaranteed by the 14th amendment. Not by the citizenship provision, but by the Due Process and the Equal Protection clauses. These apply to all, even illegal immigrants.
Do you want to undo these clauses as well?
FnC: "Childdog and Mamaj are a minority voice on illegal immigration in the U.S. The country as a whole; 71% want our immigration laws enforced (according to a statistical report a few months back). "==============================
Enforcing existing laws is not the same as passing unconstitutional laws as Berman wants to do.
Amending the U.S. constitution to meet what you see as a threat is not the answer either.
Oh, they'll leave when employers are "forced" to stop hiring them and knock them off the welfare rolls. With illegal aliens propensity to be a criminal element in society, they eventually get rounded up and deported.
Not trying to sound mean but illeagl immigration has taken a toll on American citizens and we're just exhausted putting up with these people. We wish they go back to their country and fight their own corrupted government than depend on ours.
You mean like our kids? Sure we can go to ER rooms, but then the medical bills are so high that we risk losing our homes or going bankrupt. The playing field is not equal.================================
Health care reform is another issue entirely.
B2bm: "I truly believe that once all the freebies are gone, people will stop coming so readily and many will go home. Hey, you gotta start somewhere."==================================
You have no facts or data to support such a belief. What you "wish" to happen is not an adequate basis for public policy.
There is no reason to suppose that anyone will leave as a result of such a change. Nor is there any real reason to believe that it would deter anyone.
It's all about jobs.
Childdog and Mamaj are a minority voice on illegal immigration in the U.S. The country as a whole; 71% want our immigration laws enforced (according to a statistical report a few months back).
Those numbers are steady with more states attempting to adopt Arizona-style laws to discourage illegal aliens from populating a state and in turn, putting a huge burden on the taxpayers.
Texas, also, will adopt similar laws to Arizona and have on the dock, a flurry of anti-immigration bills to be sign into law. Just to point out of a few ---
End Sanctuary policies in all of Texas.Make English the official language of Texas.Require SS for children enrolling in Texas public school system.Deny welfare to illegal aliens (including SS benefits)Require employers to use E-Verify and a hefty fine if knowingly hired illegal aliens.Denied birthright citizenship. End Anchor Babies laws and amnesty.
These are just some of the anti-immigration measures coming through in Texas, and with a supermajority in the Texas Congress, it stands an excellent chance of passage.
On another front, dozens of states willl coordinate efforts to implement laws like SB1070 and those states are colloborating with each others to be of one voice, one mind against illegal immigration in light of the ruling by a Democrat Judge in Az. that ruled, states cannot enact immigration laws, with the possibility of other states doing so to varying degree, which is why it's a Federal responsibility.
Fair enough, that's why these states will have identical laws that doesn't sway in seperate directions from each others and thwart that argument of run-away laws targeting illegal immigration.
Chili: So your solution is to let children suffer with inadequate medical care or even to die?
You mean like our kids? Sure we can go to ER rooms, but then the medical bills are so high that we risk losing our homes or going bankrupt. The playing field is not equal.
Chili, if farming was the only area that hired these people, it wouldn't be a problem.
B2bm: "Those kids are eligible for Medicaid, and of course, the taxpayers pay that bill. How about problems during birth or a problem child with birth defects? Multiply that by how many? Taxpayers cannot keep supporting that."=============================So your solution is to let children suffer with inadequate medical care or even to die?
I truly believe that once all the freebies are gone, people will stop coming so readily and many will go home. Hey, you gotta start somewhere.
B2mb: "I was under the impression that the age was 21."==========================The parents have to return to the home country for at least 10 years before they can be sponsored over.
oh, and chili,
I was under the impression that the age was 21. Those kids are eligible for Medicaid, and of course, the taxpayers pay that bill. How about problems during birth or a problem child with birth defects? Multiply that by how many? Taxpayers cannot keep supporting that.
B2bm: "Why should the American taxpayer help folks that are creating the lower wages and doing a lot to create the high unemployment in this country? It took a long time to build those wages and benefits up to the point of being able to survive in today's economy, and they are here tearing it all down."====================================
Rather than blame the wall street bankers that have pushed the outsourcing of high paid jobs overseas, you blame the poor guy out picking peppers for pennies a bushel.
B2bm: "mama, why do you think employers hire mexicans over white or black? Because they don't dare complain about the conditions in fear of getting deported. They are debasing themselves."===================================
So, if we take away the birthright citizenship clause, the employers will have a whole new generation of stateless persons ready and available for exploitation. Is that what you want?
This would be like a return to the days of slavery.
You don't get out much, do you?
B2bm: "then when the child is old enough, they can sponser the parents."==================
Ah, the 30 year plan.
Btbm: "so they use the American taxpayers to pay for the deliveries of those babies and support them throughout their lives"===========================
Ah, so you are saying that the citizen children of illegal immigrants will never grow up to get productive jobs and pay taxes on their own?
Do you have any hard data to support that claim or did you just pull it out of . . . “somewhere?”
B2bm: "They are not here to work if they are here to have babies."==========================
That is the stupidest thing I have read all year.
(fortunately for you, the year is young)
It really doesn't matter when the babies are born, the outcome is the same. They are not here to work if they are here to have babies. They cannot afford to have those babies, so they use the American taxpayers to pay for the deliveries of those babies and support them throughout their lives, then when the child is old enough, they can sponser the parents.
You would be wrong. My husband grew up picking cotton and picking corn by hand. They didn't have any "help" like they do now. Many a day they went to bed hungry with little more than bread to eat. They lost a crop, too bad because they didn't have any insurance back then. They had no help, not even from the Catholic church. mama, why do you think employers hire mexicans over white or black? Because they don't dare complain about the conditions in fear of getting deported. They are debasing themselves.Why should the American taxpayer help folks that are creating the lower wages and doing a lot to create the high unemployment in this country? It took a long time to build those wages and benefits up to the point of being able to survive in today's economy, and they are here tearing it all down.If people are willing to take less than minimum wages, they should be prepared to survive on those wages and not expect help.
your really going to go there born2bme? mexicanos will work for lower wages but at least they are working and yes they may need some additional help but at least they are not lazy sitting at home collecting welfare. and duh victoria is not the only city in texas and there are plenty of fields maybe you have never had to struggle or have family members that had to pick cotton or maize. my goodness such hate no wonder this world is the way it is.
Born2beme wrote: "One positive would be that women wouldn't be risking their lives to cross the border while they are pregnant, just so it could be born on this side of the border. That in itself would curtail a great number of illegal entries.”=================
Research shows that the majority of children born to illegal immigrants are born over 9 months AFTER the parents reached this country.
The other key point to consider is that changing the citizenship status won’t change the fact that under the due process and equal protection clauses of the 14th amendment, children are entitled to basic services such as education and public health services regardless of their citizenship status. Do you propose to change those clauses as well?
how many fields are around here? There is a reason that a lot of Caucasions are in the Welfare office. Would it be that Mexicans are taking their jobs because they can afford to work for lower wages?
I've recently been in the SS office to get a new SS card and let me tell you that 95% of those in there could barely speak english.
I see many unintended consequences. Firstly, what would happen to children born in this country if the country that the parents left refuses to repatriate them? Now you have a bunch of stateless persons, how do you deal with that? Assuming that the majority of persons born to illegal alien parents in this country do not leave, denying them citizenship will just create a large group of stateless persons who are ripe for exploitation. Furthermore, these stateless persons will find it much, much, harder to become productive, tax paying members of society.
What procedures would you put into place to ensure that one of the parents is a citizen? The bureaucratic set up would cost far more and have absolutely no return on the investment. Do you suggest that we build a database of the DNA of all the citizens of the United States?
Finally, removing the birthright provisions would have absolutely no effect on curbing illegal immigration. People come here for jobs.
Ya'll might want to check the statistics on caucasion and black ratio compared to mexican ratio of who is receiving government help. and as a matter of fact mexicans have contributed to the history of texas thank you very much we do have a college and library that you can confirm that with. i as a mexican woman who looks white take great offense to this bigotry. let me see how many smiths and andersons are going to be in the fields picking fruits and vegetables. or is that beneath you? open your eyes go to the welfare office and take a look at who is occupying those seats. Caucasions with a few mexicans and black. Good try on deflecting the real problem.
One positive would be that women wouldn't be risking their lives to cross the border while they are pregnant, just so it could be born on this side of the border. That in itself would curtail a great number of illegal entries.The negative would be how far back could you go? Would it start from this point forward, or go back so many years?
Chilidog...The goal is to prevent children who are born in this country to illegal aliens from being granted brithright citizenship. Amending the 14th Amendment would do that. Just out of curiosity, what unintended consequenses do you foresee? I don't see anything but positives.
Thewaywardwind, . . . Wrong. Changing this amendment of the constitution would be a huge mistake filled with unintended consequences. AND it would no accomplish the goal you seek, reducing illegal immigration.
"I have seen in black communities, jobs wiped out by illegal aliens"
Your full of it.
Visit the NumbersUSA and the ALIPAC websites and help fight illegal immigration. Vote against every politician that supports illegals.
In 2012, vote against every polititian that supports illegal immigration.
It doesn't matter though. The Republican Party did well during the mid-term elections and seem to have their heads on right for the 112th Congress; and the sooner, the better, to put an end to this illegal immigration mess.
I have seen in black communities, jobs wiped out by illegal aliens an d lead us to believe black don't want to do the jobs. What a gross lie by the business communities ---- why don't we check who's really benefitting by keeping blacks and whites out of the workforce and hire more illegal aliens. It's no secret illegal aliens depresses wage all across the board and a financial boon for these employers and go out LYING that "they do the jobs blacks won't do."
There's a God though. And He doesn't sleep!
dont you need a valid SSN# to apply for a Lone Star Card ?
I suggest those that "think" they know anything about the 14th Amendment to take a more in-depth look at the 14th Amendment. There are cases that have been tried in the Supreme Court by foreigners trying to gain citizenship to the U.S.
The Asians and Irishs have prevailed under the 14th Amendment and their contribution to America is duly noted. The Asians, with their Gold Rush in California and the Irishs, with their mining in the southern states. Their contribution is duly noted.
Please point out how our Founding Fathers could possibly have meant to include "illegal aliens" from Mexico to be protected under the 14th Amendment. Better yet, please point how it was "considered" by our Founding Fathers of the possibility of an "illegal aliens" coming on U.S. soil to make babies and use those children as leverage to gain citizenship.
If any of you are duped into believing that was the intent of our Founding Fathers, check those history books and make sure it isn't writting by some far-left liberal or Mexican national in a village town on the outskirt of Mexico City.
Again, the 14 Amendment, as written in 1868 was meant for children of African American slaves, Asians, and Irish.
The idea that a foreigner can come on the U.S. soil just for the purpose of making a baby and use that child as a leverage to gain citizenship was never intended by our Founding Fathers nor America as it exist today.
Is there anything repubs don’t agree with they haven’t proposed to change by constitutional amendment? Can someone here list these over the 20 years. The following are just a few I can think of: Flag Burning, Gay Marriage, Abortion, repeal the 14th, & 22nd amendments, a balanced budget, and English the official language.
How can you ignore nearly 500 years of Spanish (Mexican) history and it’s contributions in Texas? I know some people ignore or are ignorant of this, but it is our history. Texas remains at the bottom of the nations educational barrel, but this is no excuse for adults. Unless they were swept in by Katrina. Because only LA and a couple of other states produce dumber kids that Texas.
Glad to see not everyone here drinking the kool-aide about the 14th amendment.
Chilidog...You're right about the 14th Amendment and that's why we need to amend it to stop birthright citizenship unless at least one of the parents is a US citizen.
The 14th amendment states:===All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States. . .===
A baby is a person regardless of who the parent is.
All persons in the Sovereign Territory of the United States are under the jurisdiction of the United States.
All persons born in the United States are citizens of the United States.
It really doesn't get any simpler than that.
Welcome aboard - You’re one funny white dude or an even funnier (in more ways than one) black dude.
Anybody here eat sausage? Chicken? Canned vegatables? Do they cost too much now? Who do you think does this work? Hobbits that ride to work on Unicorns?
As a black man, I never thought I'd be so receptive to the Republican Party. Been a lifelong Democrat, but since Obama took over, I realized the "America" I know lives with the Republican Party than this current Obama administration and Democrat Party.
Regarding illegal immigration, it makes for sound policies to deny illegal aliens a life in America. Far-left liberals have gone too far, too undisciplined to trust them to do the right thing for America.
Just the nerves of them to apply the 14th Amendment to illegal aliens when it's meant for children of African-American slaves, first and foremost, and then Asians and Irishs.
Illegal alien adovacates (mainly Mexican nationals), hollering about "American was built on the backs of immigrants" and disingeneous implies that to mean, illegal alien, Mexicans.
Mexicans did absolutely NOTHING to build America. There are no history books, no evidence of any such contribution by illegal alien, Mexicans. Not even by legal Mexicans. None. And its a slap in the face to every African-American and Americans alike for them to continue to spout that crap about "helped built America."
You have to start with placing a huge fine "per illegal employee" on companies that hire them. Dry up the demand, and that takes care of the problem.These companies would also have to e-varify and if found doing something illegal to by-pass that, criminal charges should be filed against the employerAutomatic citizenship should be phased out. Free schooling shouldn't be the norm. Kids should have to know how to speak english, before they register for school. The parents should have to cover that cost themselves. Why should those students be able to slow our classes down and why should the taxpayers have to pay for more teachers and larger schools to accommodate people here illegally?If the US doesn't get control of this run-away train, it is going to bury us alive.
Nothing will be done as long as restruants, farmers, meat packers, manufactures, contractors, landscape companies, clothing manufactures, canneries, ect. ect. ect. keep hiring illegeals, sorry about that un-documented workers.
Start with checking the SS status of all the area food produces. Who do you think is working in the packing plants and meat and chicken producers? Not to many Smiths or Jones there. Now be prepared to see the whiplash at the grocery store.
artramirez...You mention taxation without representation. I often wonder what the Founders would think of our taxation WITH representation.
It's about time our state legislature started doing something about illegal immigration! I agree that just because a person crosses our borders illegally and has a child/children that they become automatic citizens is not the original intent of the law. This has alot of momentum because Texas citizens have had to sit by and watch illegals using the Lone Star card, our health services which are already overloaded, and educating their children. Which by the way has caused our property taxes to go sky high like Tara. Immmigration laws exist for a reason and we need to get back to English as the language of our land.
Good forward thinking Ms Riddle.We have to start somewhere.Illegals and their anchor children are an unfair tax burden on taxpayers of the state of Texas.Taxation without without representation!!Let's not forget this is what began the fight for America'sIndependence. Negate citizenship to all anchor children born after 1985 is afair enough start.