I just don't understand. I think both schools have a lot to offer. Why doesn't A&M build in Port Lavaca and everyone can have the best of worlds close at hand. I can see a lot of hits comming from this....

HoleIn1...

Huh?

Enrollment at UHV has nearly doubled over just the last five years or so, but that's only due to the introduction of online classes. Of course online growth doesn't do anything for the physical campus. With the addition of freshmen and sports there are more students on campus these days, but it's still a little early to tell how this will effect face-to-face enrollment.

If you are looking over the long term (40 years), there hasn't been anything in Victoria to attract people to come here. There still isn't. Victoria just isn't a 'college town' kind of place. I don't see how you can place blame on anyone for that.

I asked this on another thread, but figured I'd put it here too.

Question:

Who is responsible for the lack of substantial growth of UH-V over the past 40 years? Is it the UH System, UH-V or the community of Victoria?

I know where I place the blame, but I'm interested to see what the rest of you think.

Texas A&M University Sugar Land - Victoria

Long name, serious school.

Gabe

These numbers are not surprising at all. Both the graduation numbers and enrollment numbers clearly show that only 20% of the market (I doubt if these are also correct but the percentage should be even lesser) attend classes in Victoria or affiliated with Victoria. If University of Phoenix has 500 students from Victoria, can they claim economic benefits in Phoenix? What does Dale Fowler talk about educated workforce having a 2.5 billion dollar impact in Victoria? Is he hoping that Katy and Sugar Land students will live in Victoria to provide economic development? The whole thing stinks when Chamber of Commerce has people like Fowler not knowing what he is talking about. Let A&M take over Katy and Sugar Land locations and let us call it A&M Sugar Land and Victoria be a satellite campus. I would support it wholeheartedly.

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

I will attempt to help you guess lamposts age RR.....at what point in school did we learn to spell riddance? He/she would be a year or so behind that....

How old are you lamppost? LOL

Well what are you waiting for? Get applying!

The average salary for an Accountant in Houston is $51,000 according to this source:

http://goo.gl/Wg5pE

That is what I saw today.

I could have told you all this a long time ago. I actually graduated from UHV back in 2004. There is no need for a new campus or a change. When I was at UHV most of the classrooms were empty. I hardly ever saw anyone on campus and several of my classes had EIGHT students in them. A majority of the students aren't even in Victoria. It's a commuter school.

lamppost writes
"Personally, I think Texas A&M coming to Victoria presents our students from all around the Golden Crescent area with a fabulous opportunity to attend an outstanding University."

You act like it's going to be Texas A&M College Station. It's not! It's still gonna be UHV but with a different name. It's not going to all of a sudden gain Tier 1 status because it has A&M in front of it. It will still be the same University for the most part. Why is it not outstanding now?

Victoria also doesn't pay well at all to attract people. I'm an accountant now and I searched jobs one day in Victoria just to see what the pay scale was like and there is no way I'm gonna work in Victoria for $25,000 per year. That is what I saw at the time.

Jared, finally we agree on something! : )

I agree, they need a niche, without it, they will be in the same boat. They are also hanging their hats on this "Achieve Your Dream" program, which I assume is some kind of federal money to poor minorities....that federal money is drying up....what then?

I also would be interested in knowing how many of this years Freshman return next year & follow them to graduation....how many graduate vs dropping out.

I think it is silly to compare us to Sugarland--they have a direct feed off of Houston. A large percent of their citizens work in Houston. We would be a bigger prettier town to if 10% of Houston moved here.

I totally believe that UH should leave Victoria - then, let's see if A&M will gamble with Victoria. UH shouldn't be wasting it's time with a "none-progressive" town. And...as you drive to First Colony Mall take a look to the right and see UHSugarLand - wow - what a difference!

Why are lobbyists needed? If it is such a great deal why aren’t our local elected officials leveraging their influence on their colleagues?

Lamppost,

Thanks for responding.

Fowler mentions several times regarding educating 'the community'. I guess if you really want to stretch you can say this doesn't apply to the community of Victoria. I don't know. Play it as you want. I guess we'll have to see what the campaign consists of once it comes out. If the bill passes though, shouldn't it be the job of A&M, or TAMU-Victoria, to educate the people on what's going on?

My references are at about the 36 minute mark at the council meeting, and about the fourth or so paragraph at
http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/...

As far as the VEDC funds go...my mistake.

Also, where is the quote from an A&M official that says they want to establish a destination university in Victoria? The only thing I've heard from A&M is along the lines of 'if the legislature says Victoria is ours, then that's what we'll do'.

Many people are missing the point, so for the umpteenth time let me say that for most folks this isn't about Texas A&M coming to Victoria. It's about how the city handled this. If lobbying funds are warranted, why not take it out of general fund?

Since the Supreme Court ruled that coporations may lobby without financial clarity, one must grease the pockets (lunch at the Headliners Club with a $500.00 bottle of Burgundy plus season
tickets to the Football Games, etc) of the people that we elect to represent our interest.
Nothing happens without these funds which have become protocol. Do you people here really not understand this?

The council says this endeavor is to bring students to Victoria, to expand and for boosting the Victoria economy...
My sister graduated from TAM College Station, came back to Victoria and could not get a good job. People wanted to hire her for minimum wages, she moved to San Antonio.
As we all know people come to Victoria to get experience and then move on. Again, it was mentioned with the News Channel employees, how many have come and gone.
The enrollment at UHV is up...how many are due to the "Achieve your Dream Program?". After this help is exhausted, how many will stay.
If UHV wasn't doing an excellent job, do you think all these students would still be coming here?
Curiosity, How many students who graduate actually..."start businesses of their own?"

Weren't we told this money was to be used to negotiate in bringing a new business to Victoria? And it had to be hush-hush because the client requested? Now there a whole new reason for the money-lobbyist and educating us? Kinda like the whole parking lot plans changed when things smelled too fishy. I think most people are objecting to being misled by the council yet again. Do we have any guarantee that A&M is gonna do anything different from UHV?

Previous VA article from Feb.--
During its meeting last week, the sales tax board met in executive session to discuss a business prospect "with which the corporation is conducting economic development negotiations," according to the agenda.
"Like so many economic development projects, any public conversation can hinder or end negotiations," said Dale Fowler, president of the VEDC. "We have chosen to ask that this project remain confidential for the time being. Should discussions continue to go well and the $100,000 is used, there will be opportunity for full public discussion."
"People need to understand that the confidentiality of negotiations is often at the request of the client, like with Caterpillar," the mayor said. "Not that this special project is another Caterpillar; it's not, but the VEDC needs to have funds on hand. We have no way of knowing how much of it will be spent or what else might develop.

Lampost,

My comments have nothing to do with A&M or UHV specifically but more to the point of "selling" this to Victoria. I just think decisions should be made on factual information not potentially inflated projections.

Gabe's comments are accurate when dealing with a small sampling, five employees. As your sampling size increases, to say 1,772 median and average are going to be very close. It has been too long since I studied statistical analysis but there is a direct relation between sampling size and the results of median and average (mean) calculations. Large samplings produce more accurate representations then small samplings.

I have no personal preference regarding UHV, A&M, Tech or any other university locating in Victoria. My concern is every time we are presented something by some of the leaders in Victoria there seems to be a void of factual information. Someone has to pay for all of the infrastructure required to support a university of 5,000 or 10,000 students. That someone is going to be the individual and business tax payers in Victoria. How much more costs can be absorbed by the local taxpayers?

One more question for Gabe...

Gabe, can you do some research and see how much money the city of San Angelo spent on lobbyists when they decided to realign with Texas Tech, and also how much they spent to educate the citizens of San Angelo on the switch?

fatguy,

I don't have anything against Lamppost, I really don't. He has presented a few things as fact, and when questioned he can't back any of it up. If I could get an honest answer maybe I could get a different viewpoint on the whole situation. Maybe I'm missing something that is obvious to him (or her).

One questions I'd like Gabe to check on though is if the money not spent on lobbying/advertising is really returned to the VEDC as Dale Fowler stated at the council meeting.

It didn't bother me at first, or maybe I didn't pay much attention to it at first, but all along they've been saying they don't know how much it's going to cost. They (VEDC) were granted $100K. So hypothetically, if it only costs $10K, then $90K stays with the VEDC? Does anyone see a problem with this? Is that all it takes to add funds to a budget?

Vox,

Talking to Lamppost is like talking to, well, a lamp post. He is typical A & M alumnus. Don't try to confront anyone brainwashed by A & M with any difficult questions or facts. And especially don't do anything that might be perceived as disrespect towards that most mighty of education institutions. Most of the powers that be around here seem to be Aggies.

VBB, "Maybe they aren't expanding face to face classes due to the limited student base here in Victoria? In order for this campus to grow they have to offer a program that can't be acheived at all the other nearby Universities...what that would be, I have no idea."

great comment! I agree, differentiation is very important. I have thought about it a little. I would like an MBA for Small Business. Other things I am seeing are green programs. But it could be something as simple as becoming the expert university for Mexican/Mexican American writers. UTSA's architecture program has an emphasis on Spanish influenced structures. These are just some ideas that I have come to mind. What do you think?

Sorry Lamppost, I don't see anyone from A&M saying anything in that article.

Since you aren't really backing up any of your statements, including the one you made a couple of days ago where you stated that the public information campaign would be for regions outside of Victoria (where Mr. Fowler has stated multiple times that it will in fact be specifically for the community of Victoria), I'll at least answer your question:

In my mind there's no reason why A&M shouldn't come here. Considering UHV isn't getting support from UH (as many suggest), UHV is doing just fine on its own. It doesn't matter what system is in charge...they will be successful.

Once again, the only issue I have with this whole thing is that the council feels it's necessary to spend at most $100K to educate the citizens of Victoria (again, why?), and to hire a lobbyist to push a bill (I've gone into why this isn't necessary also in other posts). I also noted from the council meeting that any portion of the $100K not used goes back to VEDC.

A note about Jeff Williams' concern regarding the average salary he calculated. I should note I have not double-checked his math, nor have I researched in the study to verify the numbers he is using (but I have no reason to doubt him).

That said, I do a lot of work to examine salaries. The majority of scholars and investigative reporters calculate "median" salary information instead of "average" salary data. Average salary information is often less useful than median salary information because it can be misleading. To calculate an average, you add up the salaries and divide by the number of employees. However, a few high wage earners -- or low wage earners -- can skew findings.

For example: If a company has five employees, and one employee earns $20,000 per year, two earn $40,000, one employee earns $50,000 and another employee earns $350,000 (for a total company payroll of $500,000), the average salary for the company is $100,000. Clearly, $100,000 is not reflective of how much money the "average" employee of this company earns. That figure is skewed higher because of the high wage earner.

That's why it's often best to use median data to illustrate benefits such as salaries. To calculate a median salary, you simply point to the salary in the middle of the heap (if the heap is ordered from smallest to largest, or vice versa).

In the example of my made-up company, $40,000 would be the median salary. This number, when compared to the other salaries, is more reflective of what the typical employee earns.

I'm not arguing for or against the points Mr. Williams makes. However, the process he used to base his argument might be flawed.

Thanks -- Gabe

A clarification for the story above: I'd reported, that of UHV's student population, "64 students attend via other combinations of classes, including students who are also primary or secondary school students."

Those 64 UHV students are primary or secondary school teachers, and not primary or secondary school students.

This incorrect info was changed in the online version of the story above.

-- Gabe

"Not to mention the fact that Texas A&M shares the same vision of establishing a destination University in Victoria"

Please direct me to the source for this. Where has A&M stated that they want to establish a destination university in Victoria?

Two statements don't make sense to me - the vision of a destination university and an educated Victoria workforce. I went to a destination university and never thought about staying there. I got my degree and moved on. Maybe if an educated workforce is what Victoria needs the path forward should be to expand Victoria College. Teach "skill sets" to fill the needs in the local industry, attract industry, and companies looking for a skilled-educated workforce.

Thank You Gabe!!!!!!!! I have been saying it over and over and over for the past year! No matter how you add it up........."334 students attend in-person classes only in Victoria."

WOW, what a surprise! 100's of millions of dollars to build a new University! Give me a freaking break! Folks, please now understand what many people have been saying for the past year, this is all merely a gamble with our tax dollars and absolutely NO FACTS support a new campus being built whatsoever! Build right where you are, grow and recruit at the current location, and then maybe one day ask for a new building or two. Other than that as they say "The proof is in the pudding"!

"The economic impact of the operations of the university over 10 years of the expansion will be $2.78 billion."

I think everyone should take a look at this study. Of this projected $2.78B economic impact, 54% is "Salaries paid to direct and indirect workers". The study suggests total salaries during the 10 years will be $1,519,995,860. A total of 1,772 direct and indirect jobs will be created. A little basic math calculates $1,519,995,860 (total salary economic impact) / 10 (years considered) / 1,772 (total jobs created) = $85,776 per job per year.

Based on salary info found at citytowninfo.com the average UHV salary for men 2008/2009 year was $74,969 (woman were $9,000 less). In 2004 the average salary for anyone living in 77904 Zip code was $46,917 (www.city-data.com)

2004 average salary 77904 $46,917
2009 average university salary $74,969
Expand university average salary $85,776

Does it sound feasible to anyone that the expansion of any university is going to create 1,700 jobs with EACH AND EVERY job having a salary that is 14% higher then current university staff and 84% higher then what was earned by people living in 77904 zip just 6 years ago?

Everyone that has received an 84% pay increase in the last 6 years please raise your hand.

ok I stand corrected....734 students....still smaller than a highschool.

Some of you guys on here need to learn how to read. If you read carefully over 700 people attend classes in person. The 334 is only for students that take "ONLY" face to face classes. I am a UHV student and I am all for the switch to A&M. So many of my classmates are from here (Victoria) and we are unable to attend face to face classes because their are none! Im sure there is a substantial number from the online-only students that are just from Victoria which would probably bring that the total up over 1500. Some of you also seem to forget that many VC students tranfer out to other universities. A destination University would help keep some of those individuals here in Victoria.

Maybe they aren't expanding face to face classes due to the limited student base here in Victoria? In order for this campus to grow they have to offer a program that can't be acheived at all the other nearby Universities...what that would be, I have no idea.

here is a direct link to the page that says it all about what A&M can do for Victoria.

http://www.texasaandiuniversity.com/o...

1. What will become of Victoria College?
2. Do we have any kind of guarantee that after spending $100,000, A&M will expand the school?

So what kind of program will they offer in Victoria to make people actually attend in person, in Victoria? Regardless of who's logo is on the stationary, the college has to offer programs that are in demand & that can only be got at that particular campus, short of that, A&M will face the same issues UHV is currently facing.

SHOCKING...........does this change have potential liabilty?

If I remember correctly, Kingsville A&M Pharmacy programs opening was delayed due to monetary issues. They had a waiting list to get in a mile long, so I don't see lack of interest being a monetary issue....with that in mind, why does Victoria think they (A&M) would open their wallets & build a new college for 300+ students?

If anyone wants to know how "good" a change joining the A&M system will be, you should contact anyone affiliated with Texas A&I, and the A&I Alumni Association. Since TAMU took over A&I in 1993, and changed the name of the university, the school has either been stagnant or gone backward in every respect. None of the promised money ever reached the Campus in Kingsville.
Check this site for the real story of what a "benefit" TAMU would be.

http://www.texasaandiuniversity.com/

Scroll down the first page to see what a anme change can do.

I am sick of seeing the advocate report one side of the story, and not the reality of what can happen based on facts.

"It's exactly what the state of Texas needs and demands with its Close the Gaps initiative," Fowler said.

From the Texas Higher Education website concerning the Close the Gaps initiative...

Philosophy of the Coordinating Board
The Coordinating Board will engage in actions that add value to Texas and to higher education. The agency will avoid efforts that do not add value or that are duplicated by other entities.

"duplicated by other entities"

Hmm.

Mr. Semenza,
Thank you SO much for these illuminating numbers that put things in perspective.

8% to 10% of UHV's enrollment actually attend classes here. We need a new 100 acre campus for these 334 to 400 students?
It matters not if it is UHV or TAMU-V ... can this possibly make sense?

Again, thank you ... these numbers say it all.