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Writein..."Have it ever occur to you that the Special Prosecutor use the second degree to force Zimmerman and his defense team to pled for the third degree, manslaughter, or negligent homicide instead of losing the case? "

Yes, it did. However, if I was a betting man, I'd bet there won't be a plea in this case. I believe that if Zimmerman was allowed to plead to one of the lesser offenses you mention, there would be riots in the streets. The state knows there are many powder kegs just waiting for a spark and a plea agreement to a charge that does not include "murder" would most likely set off an explosion. No, I believe this case will go to trial and a jury will decide his fate.

By the way, J, you might want to run the sentence I cut and pasted from your post through your grammar checker. You might be surprised.

I have been called many things but I can't remember "Racist" being on the list. The fact is Country chic when you diminish the value of anyone to suit your point of view you devalue us all.

Don't burn the ribs.

Waywardwind.

Sigh. For someone having an opinion about the Justice system, you show a lack of understanding here. Have it ever occur to you that the Special Prosecutor use the second degree to force Zimmerman and his defense team to pled for the third degree, manslaughter, or negligent homicide instead of losing the case? With manslaughter or negligent homicide, he could get between two to five (with good behavior) in the pen depending on state law. I mean that’s what modern day prosecutors do, how do I know? Well I don’t want to boast, but let’s say I know something about the criminal justice system and no I never committed a crime thank you.

J. Williams

Waywardwind.

Well since you said, I am a free spirit with my “Grammar”? Better ask the tiny keys on my cell phone, my grammar checker or Microsoft word program sometime. What about your free “spiritness”, lack of a better word, in your deep seated dislike or distrust of American citizens of the Islamic faith or those are young male and have dark complexion? Just saying.

Mr. Williams

Dig...I know no case is ever a slam dunk. I admit that my first thought when I heard of the second degree murder charge was that the prosecutor had caved in to the pressure and charged as much as she could. I also had the thought that going for the murder charge rather than manslaughter might mean that the state was saying to the more radical elements that they were not looking to give Zimmerman a slap on the wrist and, if the jury came back with not guilty on murder, the state could lay the blame on them and try to skate. However, when I read the definition of second degree murder, I could see how the charge can be made. Now, whether the state can convince the jury is another matter entirely. If I was a betting man, I'd bet I could foretell the outcome of the case when we learn the makeup of the jury before one word of testimony is given. By the way, I don't know if the jury will be able to consider a lesser charge in their deliberations. I don't know if they could come back with a not guilty on murder but guilty on manslaughter.

Waywardwind.

Fair enough, however if someone said something that is so outrageous, so offensive, that it stops the art of having an honest discussion, then that person should be held accountable.

Mr. Williams

Countrychic...I have to strongly disagree with you. I don't think ANYONE should be banned from the forum -- regardless of the posting history. This is the First Amendment at its' best. People can say what they think. Remember, this forum is for the opinions of those posting and opinions are like certain bodily orifices -- we all have them.

BTW, I believe you were speaking to Vet when you wrote: "You are just like Williams.You're just as racist as he is. Amazing how you and he carry each other. You sure you're not the same people??

I can answer that for you. NO, they are not the same person. Vet is articulate and writes well and spells his words correctly and uses the correct words. He punctuates his sentences correctly. He is easily understood -- I seldom agree with him, but he is easily understood. He is an excellent communicator. J, on the other hand, uhhhh, well, J shows a certain free spirit with his spelling, grammar and punctuation. One often has to work at it to understand what J is trying to get across.

CountryChic.

If I am not worth a response, then why did you still reply? Oh? I know why it is because I AM TELLING THE TRUTH!! The Truth hurts and you should let it make you free.

Here is another Truth; I am a “racist”. Yes Lord I am a racist, but not against White people. No, honey no. I am a racist against a certain group it is called Ignorant People, Stupid people, fools, and people who have no common sense what so ever. That’s right I am racist against those people. They can be an Al Sharpton or a David Duke. They can be white, black, Yellow, Brown, or they can be in white sheets like Klansmen or in black jackets with moon pies like Panthers. They can be in a train or in the rain. They painted like a clown or like a mole in the ground down, but I don’t like Green Eggs and Ham. LOL. Just ask my white ex- girlfriend in Washington County or that lovely Hispanic Chic I like in Victoria County. I rest my case.

Mr. Williams

Writein..."If a person can write to the editor of this paper and it is required to have his/her name printed, but why can’t the same be on here? Huh can you answer me."

Well, J, let me take a shot at it. This is a different forum from the letters to the editor forum. There are different rules for different forums. For example, the letters forum limits contributors to one letter every 30 days. This forum has no such restriction. Seems pretty simple to me. Different strokes for different folks.

It appears Zimmerman is in a lot of trouble. I initially thought that the prosecutor over charged the case. I thought a charge of manslaughter was more appropriate -- and I still think that way. Florida manslaughter is defined as: "The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification... and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree." http://www.tampabay-criminaldefense.c...

However, the charge against Zimmerman is second degree murder. Until I looked it up, I figured premeditation was required. It isn't. Under Florida law, second murder can be charged if the authorities believe the defendant exhibited "murder with a depraved mind.": " Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life." http://www.richardhornsby.com/crimes/...

I still believe that manslaughter is the appropriate charge, but the "no regard for human life" clause makes second degree murder feasable. The outcome may very well turn on Zimmerman's explanation of WHY he got out of the car and whether the jury buys it. There may be some on the panel who will vote guilty simply in hopes of avoiding riots. Voir Dire is gonna be interesting when picking this jury.

Itisi.

I meant every word I said. You and others like Debunker, Country Chic, Waywardwind, David Webb, and others can take my words any way you want, but I stand by them I stand by my statement like a MAN. I am no longer concern, if my comments would result in my firing or any other retaliation, then so be it. At least I can take it like a MAN.

I don’t hide behind a computer screen throwing bombs and snipping at others or groups of people. I tell it like it is and y’all can’t take it. If a person can write to the editor of this paper and it is required to have his/her name printed, but why can’t the same be on here? Huh can you answer me. Last year or the year before, I used to enjoy anonymity because I do not want to be DIXIE CHICKED out of a job or a position. Now I don’t care. I rather be HATED for what I believe than liked for being popular or being a TOM for not standing up. But y’all do why because it would shine a light on you at work, at home, at the dinner table, and at events with so-called friends who would find your statements offensive (especially in mixed company). You know exactly what I mean. Some of y’all are threaten that my opinions about local attitudes and mentalities are very true. Take any way your heart desire.

Mr. J. Williams.

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You know what else is hypocritical? A year ago some people on these forums voicing their anger over Casey Anthony’s freedom and justice for the child of the Anthony’s baby girl, but now the cry is “people get murdered every day” and “Nobody's life is more important than others”. Funny huh? To me No it isn’t. The Might makes Right mentality is real in the Crossroads area…you people can take it any way you want, but it is true.

Mr. J. Williams

Country Chic.
Ok. Here is the difference. The Killer of Trayvon Martin wasn’t charged the night of the shooting. The Local law enforcement refused to charge the suspect. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. Why aren’t you talk about five people in Tulsa, Oklahoma who was shot by a 19 year old because they were black? If you want to play that game, then let’s do it. Other than that you are doing NOTHING, but distracting from the matter at hand!!! Obama’s other son??? Now who is widening the gap? YOU ARE !!!!

Mr. Williams

Why are so many people rejoicing in the death of a 17 year old. First "we all know a 17 yo can be a monster" and then "Obama's other son Tyrone is a killer.

Fire up the BBQ pit and crack the keg. Its a party! Grab a stick and whack the dead kid.

I wonder why Vicad didn't have anything in the paper about the tragic murder of 85 yr. old Nancy Strait. Nancy and her husband Bob had been married for 65 years and lived in Oklahoma. Obama's other son Tyrone Woodfork is accused of her murder. Tyrone is black and they were white. Is that okay???? Are we sending a lynch mob to his house and threatening his family?? Sadly people get murdered every day. Nobody's life is more important than others. It is a terrible tragedy what happened but nobody and I mean nobody on here voicing their opinion knows what happened that night. Zimmerman is already guilty of this crime according to some people. Don't let him have his day in court, just throw him in prison for the rest of his life or better yet give him the death penalty. What is wrong with you people?? The media sure did a good job of widening the gap even more.

You people are hilarious talking like you know what you are talking about.

Trayvon was a child or teenager. Yep he was but it is spoken as if he was a mere babe in the world. We all know that 17 year olds can be monsters.
Zimmerman was a murderer just waiting for the chance to gun down some innocent black person. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't.

I'm betting no one one this website knows anything about Trayvon, Zimmerman, or their families, other than what the media has told you.

This trial "should" be about the events that led to the death of another person. I think most of us are very aware that this has strayed very far from that.

Portraying Trayvon as an innocent victim and Zimmerman as a murderer is something no one here knows to be true. You may feel that it is but none of you know anything.

The Trayvon camp(including those sympathy seakers here) are going to be very surprised if Zimmerman wins.

labahia, your last post was really good stuff. So you know Zimmerman personally? Please tell us more about what he was thinking that night.

LOL!

What do you mean by the word “punk?” I would like a clarification on that remark… You stated “everyone.”

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I listen to the 911 tape from FOX so let's try again .lol

Same reason the righty's quote Fox and Walter Williams

Why would anyone use MSNBC/NBC as a creditable source for information is totally beyond reasonable thought? When 911 tapes were edited to inflame the issue of this young man’s death and stir civil disobedience along with civil unrest is totally outrageous. NBC screamed fire in a theater when there was no fire and should be held legally accountable for their actions. We still live in a country which you are innocent until proven guilty!!

Off the subject, comments have been made the Advocate should require full disclosure of a poster's name. My question is why? Is this so the person could be found and retaliation could take place if the comment was not liked? When you are writing to a public audience, there are risks of this happening. It is not like the Advocate does not have control over a poster. The Advocate knows who the poster is. They can remove any comment they feel is inappropriate at anytime. They can also ban a poster from ever making another comment. I read and make comments as information exchange. I don't have to know the person's actual name and address. It serves no purpose. I am not going to hunt them down. Thanks to the Advocate for offering this forum.

"a gangsta wannabe" ??? You got that from his text? And that's what killed him??
No, he was killed by a fat white racist that didn't want an "effin coon" in his white gated community. (Yes, Hispanics are racially white)
Google the words Zimmerman & coon to make up your own mind.

Vet43.

ViCAD needs to make posters put down real names to post and second make polls more scienfic along lines. This would help.

Ms. Platenberg,

May want to check todays poll numbers regarding that issue. Looks like 51% would vote for Zimmerman for Man of the Year.

Since Pigskin display a lack of knowledge (or lying) about the Black community, I shall at least bring up this.

From http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/weblo...
Another approach on gangs and the drop out rate. One example is a tragic case in Chicago, where a young African American man was killed by a group of thugs. This person, Derrion Albert, was an A student and would have been the next American success story. To make matters worse, a city council member told a CNN reporter (Don Lemon), that the lack of funding and social services are the blame. What about personal responsibility, the value system, and community awareness?
Mr. J. Williams

Pig skin.
Really? Soledad O’Brien is the cause for black community downfall? Really? Have you actully watched her specials on Black education or you just talking noise because you could get away with it on here? Do I have to bring up Youtube chips to prove how wrong you are?
Why not blame the drugs, the pimps, church leaders, and deadbeat dads? Soledad o” Brien is a great reporter along with Roland Matrin. You are doing nothing, but grasping for straws while spiting out untrue statements.

J. Williams

Pig skin.

Really? Soledad O’Brien is the cause for black community downfall? Really? Have you actully watched her specials on Black education or you just talking noise because you could get away with it on here? Do I have to bring up Youtube chips to prove how wrong you are?

J. Williams

Kicking a dead 17 year old is also an indicator of respect for those in grief. Even if you knew the young mans life history it is hard to believe calling him names proves your point of view.

That's so true vet43

The trial (if there is one) won't be about the Neo Nazis or the New Panther Party and whether they should be arrested...That's a different case altogether.

Some poster's primary mission is to make hateful racial statements and nothing else.

The case will be about Zimmerman's justification for killing an unarmed 17 year old teenager.

Pigskin I keep up,I know of the tardiness and graffiti charge... Am also aware of Zimmerman's assaulting a police officer, being fired from a security firm for being too aggressive, and domestic dispute in which he got a restraining order. I know of his anger management classes.

The black community so was the gated community considered black or white Pigskin?

Can somebody please post Zimmerman criminal record. I know it was suppose to be sealed but some media said that he had assaulted an officer . Nobody denied the claim .

First and foremost a tragedy, but....Trayvon Martin was obviously a gangsta wannabe. Check out his tweet history. You will see, he was young; he had poor judgment; he was an adolescent, and we all can only hope that Zimmerman is tried in court fairly, but the fact remains that this "gangsta" act kills. When will the black community admit that they are nurturing a death trap by not condemning the whole "gangsta" act, which sucks in young black males, then chews them up and spits them out? It's on their heads: Spike Lee, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Soledad O'Brien, Bobby Rush and all the rest are responsible for the destruction of the black community and culture by not speaking out against this death trap for their own community! It goes on and on with black on black violence and nothing is said by community leaders.

And @mike, he wasn't just suspended from school just the one time. Three times he was sent home, even if they say the "baggie was empty". These incidents are what you call future predictors.

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I've only read a few of the comments, but what struck me is why anyone is even questioning if Trayvon had a criminal history. What does that have to do with anything? He wasn't doing anything wrong "that night", and as far as what Zimmerman thinks he knew, well, Zimmerman didn't know anything, so had no right to make the decision that he did, and he danged sure didn't have the right to follow Trayvon or get into his space the way he did.

You cannot be a bystander and decide that someone is up to no good by just watching him walk by and assuming he has no business to be there.
We, as Americans, have a right to be walking anywhere we please, as long as it isn't on someone else's property. No one has a right to judge that right, or try to take matters into their own hands by just "thinking" something.

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Mike,

Some of the pople that seem so influanced by the "media" are the same ones that hang back at the checkout stand to get the latest "Poop" from the "Globe" or " Enquirer". Or anything with lots of pictures. Ever notice some newspapers use as much typespace as possible on photos? Cuts down on those troublesome facts and details. Also not as many funny typos.

"There was no substance found. There was a baggie that school officials believe may have formerly contained marijuana. There was no arrest or citation from the police," Ryan Julison said.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/201...

Trayvon's current picture can be seen on many sites but that has nothing to do with the case.

Intelligent people are not duped by the media because if that's important to them, they will find the answer on their own.

The people wanting make this case exclusively about race will find outlets that support that theory and that's what they'll focus on.

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martin's prior record or incidents had zero to do with zimmerman engaging him that evening and then killing him

Writin,

In my comment, I placed a number of questions I have about the case. While some of the questions may have been addressed, I haven't heard them. You have given answers to some of my questions, but I take nothing you say as fact. You lie too much. You are so full of yourself. I will do more research on your responses. You can't correct anything I wrote, because they were a series of questions without answers being supplied. As far as the Black Panthers, I did not say they represent ALL black people. My question was why an organization is allowed to order a death bounty based on race and no one is arrested. You my friend are the bigot, not me. I did not indicate how I am leaning on this case. That was by design and if I disclosed where I stand, it might surprise some. Asking questions allow us to search for answers that might help resolve this situation.

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Vet 43.

Amen. Comment like below is the reason why I want real names to be sign next to comments.

Mr. J Williams

zimmerman is 100% responsible for this incident. he chose to engage even after the 911 operator told him to stay back, he chose to carry and use a gun that night and he alone chose to use that weapon.

What if so called eye witnesses testify that Zimmerman was IN FACT returning to his car and it was at that point that Trayvon attacked him..(Reports are that some all ready have).The FACTS are NOT in and probably never will be. This case has already been tried in the Media and in the inflamed minds of the rabid racists of this country looking for any and every excuse to escallate something into nothing. What amazes me is why the Black Panthers who effectively put a hit out on Zimmerman haven't been arrested...and Why Al the dim wit Sharpton has not been arrested as well....BOTH have literally broken at least two florida laws..felonies....I guess double standard really does apply...It is only hate if a white does a black per sae but not vica versa? Yeah right.....

There used to be a term for folks that could only see one side of an issue. They were called pigheaded.

@writein, maybe you should do a little research yourself, and at the same time work on that grammar. Trayvon was indeed SUSPENDED from his school for 10 days for marijuana use/possession. That's not gang banging, but let's not paint him as a little angel. And if you've not seen the recent pics of Trayvon, then you're in for a bit of a surprise. He WAS NOT a little boy as it's being represented in the media. But only the child-like 13 year old pics will be used to sensationalize the story and stir up certain communities.

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Rell Bull.

Thank you. I am sick and tired of ingornat people on these forums saying stupid things.

Mr. J. Williams

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First of all I am black so to make a comment speaking about black people wanting Zimmerman dead is wrong and ignorant . I don't want Zimmerman dead I want justice for the Martin Family because I can relate to the stereotype . Right is right and wrong is wrong . Now there are alot of Black on black as well as White on White or Mexican on Mexican Crimes in American . pigskin ) so white ,mexican people don't make racial comments towards each other not to say if it's wrong or right . Just because I hear my Mexican friend call another a WB don't mean I am going to join in or that it is right . Last 17 years old or not he is a child not a grown man . Good day no more texting and driving for me

butwiser Trayon don't have a criminal history and is not known to of been in a gang .even if he was it do not matter he was not breaking the law and he had the right to be there point blank . Now why the President made that comment who knows or care because it have nothing to do with the case. Now The Black Panther don't speak for all black people . Like the Kkk don't speak for all white people. Plus the Martin family said they want Zimmerman arrest peacefully .

@brkt99, you sir, have hit the nail on the head. Nobody wants to acknowledge the myriad of other facts associated with this case, they only want to play the race card. Every year in this country, thousands of young, black men (he was 17, @Redbull = adult) die due to black on black violence, but there is hardly a word said about this activity. No disrespect to the Martin family, but why is this case so special that it deserves national airplay? Oh yeah, right, because of color. Bring Zimmerman into the mix, and we have nothing but outrage from all over the nation. It is very similar to being a non African-American and dropping the N-bomb: If you're black, it's permissible, but if you're not, it's a racial slur. Hypocrites. That being said Mr. Z will have his day in court, and may justice prevail.

brkt99,

Armed adult shoots unarmed minor and police turn him loose without an investigation. That makes if very special without any other issues that may muddy the water.

There are some things that have always bothered me about this case.

First, why are we shown pictures of Trayvon when he was about 12 years old? Why can't we see a current photo? There is a big difference between a 12 year old and a 17 year old. Is the purpose to make him look like a very young child? Second, why haven't we heard if Trayvon had a police record or history of crime or gang activity? Third, was this neighborhood where he lived or where he would be crossing to access the store he was coming from?

Now for Zimmerman. First, why did he not follow police orders to stop following Martin? Why was this not taken into account when the shooting occurred? How was he following Martin, on foot or in a car? How did the confrontation occur and how did Zimmerman approach Martin and why or did Martin approach Zimmerman? The police had already been called. I can understand Zimmerman watching from a distance to keep an eye out while the police arrived, but why the confrontation? Why was Zimmerman not held while investigations were first taking place? Even a police officer is removed from duty until an investigation can take place.

Now, why are the Black Panthers allowed to place a death bounty on Zimmerman without anyone getting arrested? Why would the president say Martin looked just like his son would have looked? Why is Zimmerman a dead man without a trial? Are blacks wanting to kill Zimmerman because he is not black? Had Zimmerman been black, would this be happening?

So much is not known by the public. I want to see a trial and evidence before I make up my mind. The bad part is Zimmerman already has a death warrant, so he will not be safe even if he is proven innocent. We still need the trial however.

I agree, vet43
This is an intriguing case because a lot of issues are in play... The Sanford police methods will be questioned and so will the Stand Your Ground law. In fact the governor of Florida has a task force working on the latter.

Mr. Zimmerman will have good representation and the prosecutor is also first class. Mr. Zimmerman's Atty. Called the Martin family yesterday and offered them his condolences. According to what I heard the proceedings will be televised and so will Mr. Zimmerman's bond hearing.

The jury will not be tainted because there's so much evidence that hasn't been presented such as the coroner's report, and distinguishing the voice who cried for help on the 911 tapes. No one knows what evidence the prosecutor used to determine the charge of second degree murder. The FBI has yet to make their findings public.

I heard yesterday that Mr. Zimmerman might not have to go before a jury gave he can prove to a judge that his actions were covered under the Stand Your Ground law.. He can also plea to a lesser charge.

How is it not? There is nothing anymore special about that case than any other. I submit to you that a murder is a murder, regardless of the color of skin.

brkt99;

The subject of the article is the cause of death of one young man. It is sad that some folks want to blow it off as just another sad death. There is a certain benchmark of what is right and wrong. An armed adult male shot and killed an unarmed adult minor. How is that just another blip on the mortality rate of young people?

@ VictoriaAdvocateStaff please play the 911 call of that child screaming for help seconds before the gun was discharged. To whoever or whomever that thinks Zimmerman should not be arrest .

Mr zimmerman should have stayed away and waited for the police to arrive like he was told by the 911 dispatcher but he decided to choose the fate of two people.

We attempted Wednesday to find a Crossroads resident to go on the record with an opposing view of the charge. If you would like to be quoted with such a view in a follow-up story, please call the newsroom at 361-574-1222.
We also always encourage letters to the editor. Send those to letters@vicad.com.

and im sure the boy was being followed to ensure he was not up to no good, and not that he was being stalked as prey.

what happend to innocent untill proven guilty? im sorry but if this had happend here in victoria not a single one of ya'll can honestly say that if the kid and i dont care of what color had attacked you that you wouldnt defend yourselves.

People have the right to protest this man was free never arrested. The police never contacted Trayvon parents and they had his cell phone but what got my attention was the screams on that 911 call. I heard a young boy cry for help and seconds later a gun shot. Don't matter to me if that was a white child he did not deserve to die . If the police and DA would of did their jobs and took this to a grand jury if would not of been so much in the media. Now the cat is out the bag . (FYI I am driving )

Vet43,

What about every other person that dies by the hand of fellow man on a daily basis? Are they not just as important as young Treyvon was? Is their life not worth as much? Where are the protests, the bounties, the talking heads when it comes to them? A young man lost his life and that is tragic! Be that as it may, it's no more tragic than any other murder that takes place. Stop over dramaticizing the case. The media made this into a racial issue, which is THE ONLY REASON ANYBODY CARES! No one wants to be labeled a racist, so everybody weighs in. I think it is absolutely ridiculous!

brkt99,

Please remember that someone must speak for Trayvon Martin. His side must be told and some one must defend his rights. There were two people involved and Mr. Zimmerman should be held accountable for his actions.

This tragady has deeper issues than a single death and only the truth will begin the healing process.

That has got to be the most one sided article in the world. Everyone thinks they know that case better than the cops and prosecutors that were actually a part of the investigation. There is absolutely no chance for a fair and impartial trial for that man, the entire country has been polluted and ruined as a jury pool. He is already convicted of this in the court of public opinion, so he's done for in court. Might as well save the tax payers some money and string him up in a Cypress tree. Why don't y'all leave the charging and the justice to those that are familiar with the case. And by familiar I don't mean watching CNN or FOX or BET or the Victoria Advocate.