ack! where to start?
Yes Raven8 - I DO 'get' it. Do you? is it clealy (sic) written?
Doesn't say people in Hell see people in Heaven - says that the rich man in HADES saw Lazarus in ABRAHAM'S BOSOM. Find someone who can explain Hades, Hell, Sheol, Gehenna, Abraham's Bosom, Paradise and Heaven to you...
Why don't I pick on Muslims? They are not spreading bad information about a book I love.
Jared - Rev 5:8 has nothing to do with this discussion. It describes the scene around the throne in heaven, yes - but your relatives are NOT the elders or the angels described.
I have no doubt that when the Son of God shouted "Lazarus, come back!" that he heard him clearly - wherever he was. But to infer that Lazarus could have been watching and listening to the conversations of others just prior to that - great imagination - no Biblical basis.
And finally, I will respectfully disagree with your Cathloic doctrine and say that I believe that prayers are for God - ONLY. We can intercede for others still living while we're here on earth - but prayers FOR the dead and prayers TO the dead are a waste of breath. We need to make up our minds what to do with Jesus BEFORE we die...
Just for the record - I didn't say that people in heaven COULD NOT see events on earth - I said that there is nothing in the Bible that confirms that this might be the case, and it seems unlikely.
Wait...You're talking like there are real, live PEOPLE walking around heaven and watching what we are doing down(?) here. You TALK to dead people and you don't think that's a little strange, not to mention creepy? When you die, you're dead and there ain't no comin' back.
I think I'm gonna start a Church of Common Sense and preach about how this life we have is all we're ever going to have and that the only thing that lives on after we die are the memories people have of us. Gee, maybe I'll get rich too, like some other preachers. Hey, it'll be tax free -- cool.
Perhaps we should read Heb. 12:1 along with Rev. 5:8. I think the rich man parable is good evidence that we will see in Heaven. If you conisder that the raising of Lazarus from dead seemed to require him to hear the words of Christ call him back to life. If this is true, then Lazarus sure could hear the request.
I am thankful, that as a Catholic, we continue converse with the those alive in Christ who is the God of the Living. It has given me great consolation to know that my grandparents and other loved ones hear my request for prayers and offer them as "bowls of incense."
zapYou just don't get it do you. You'll just try and poke holes through what is clealy written. The parable and i know that Jesus used it to make a point. If people in Hell can see up, makes sense that people can look down.Like i said;WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. Why don't you pick on the Muslims and their Koran?
tsk. tsk yourself. Couple of points:
I can't find anyone named 'Lazardus' in the Bible. In the story of LAZARUS and the rich man, it says that the rich man in Hades could see Lazarus in 'Abraham's Bosom' (or 'by Abraham's side') - still no reference to anyone in heaven seeing people on earth.
And secondly, the story was a parable. Not actual events. Jesus using common imagery to make a point to the Pharasees.
Please don't try and correct others if you don't know the material yourself.
tsk tsk tsk. ha ha ha HA HA HA HA HA! Ya'll crack me up. With God all things are possible. Have you not read the parable of Jesus when he talked about Lazardus and the rich man? If Lazardus can see the rich man in Hell why can't souls in heaven see what's going on on earth.Hey wayward if you would pay attention the VA is selling the photo as with all photos that are posted on the VA. I bet you felt SMARMY when you posted your comment.
ZaPa... Well stated. I can't imagine Pastor Jim coming to that conclusion.
"Secondly, people in heaven are so focused on worshipping God and enjoying the glories of heaven that it does not seem they would have significant interest in what is happening here on earth."
Sounds utterly boring to me, but each to their own.
Wait a minute...Graff is SELLING his picture through the Advocate forum? Is he THAT hard up for money? Isn't that kind of smarmy?
Well, I'll try to be short and kind here.
Yes - Hebrews 12:1 states, “Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses...” Some understand the “cloud of witnesses” to be people looking down on us from heaven. That is NOT the correct interpretation, I would hope that a pastor would know that.
Hebrews chapter 11 records many people whom God commended for their faith. It is these people who are the “cloud of witnesses.” That's why the word "THEREFORE" is important. You need to look at what preceeds it when understanding scripture.
The phrase could actually be translated as 'martyrs'. They are “witnesses” not in that they are watching us, but rather in that they have set an example for us. They are witnesses for God and truth. Because of the faith and diligence of Christians who went before us, we should be inspired to follow their example.
The Bible does NOT specifically say whether or not people in heaven can look down on us who are still on the earth. It is highly unlikely that they can. Since there is no grief, tears, or unhappiness in heaven (Revelation 21:4), it does not seem that observing earthly events would be possible. Secondly, people in heaven are so focused on worshipping God and enjoying the glories of heaven that it does not seem they would have significant interest in what is happening here on earth. The very fact that they are free from sin and experiencing God’s presence surely is more than enough to captivate their attention.
While it is certainly POSSIBLE that God allows people in heaven to look down upon their loved ones, the Bible gives us no reason to believe this actually occurs.