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    June 27, 2012 at 2:34 p.m.
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    June 27, 2012 at 2:04 p.m.
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    June 27, 2012 at 11:13 a.m.
  • born2Bme

    You made a wise choice and because when someone compares the economy to a swimming pool it's time to pick your things and make your exit; they have no concept, other than the latest Fox sound bite. Fortunately there an antidote for that; it’s a half hour segment of Jon Stewart. That's one of the analogies and the other was one they recycled from the Great Depression era which is a lot shorter. It goes like this, you get two government workers to dig a hole and then you get two more to refill it and on and on. There were a lot of talking points like this used against FDR's stimulus programs which are still there like the Hoover Dam, Golden Gate Bridge, Social Security,(WPA, is gone but could be replaced with a infrastructure bank) and the minimum wage. To right wingers, all those works would be considered socialism.

    Ideally we want a private sector recovery for several reasons but private and public sector employees are human beings (consumers) but you will never be able to convince supply- siders. You see they operate on just one side of the “supply and demand" equation. They believe if the job creators make enough money, some of it will eventually trickle down to the consumers. They will try to convince you that every dollar that you give to the government is a dollar that doesn’t go to the private sector. Those people just want to justify the fact that they hate paying taxes. Shared sacrifice is not in their vocabulary. Once the dollar is put in circulation, we don't have a great big machine the separates public sector money from the private ones. We know that Halliburton would close down tomorrow without government contracts etc. Government is not in the profit making business, although they did make a profit off the Wall Street bailout. It profits when the people do like they did with NASA and the internet. Government will always be an essential part of our economy because of its involvement in our trade agreements, they also make sure that we have clean air and water, ensure that our shipping lanes remain open, collect the revenues, disperse the payments for entitlements, and make the laws that are essential for a civilized society. Besides if a city gets hit with overnight weather-related natural catastrophe, who are you going to call Exxon or FEMA?

    We’ve seen the devastation in Florida recently, so the Senate was trying to address the FEMA’s National Flood Insurance Program for five years but Rand Paul, a single senator will not let it go forward until he gets a vote on legislation declaring that human life begins at conception. Huh? What's that got to do with flood insurance? This a Congress that have a 9% approval and they work hard to keep it that way.

    June 27, 2012 at 10:17 a.m.
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    June 27, 2012 at 10:12 a.m.
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    June 27, 2012 at 10:02 a.m.
  • The government is not trying to convince us it is a money-making deal, or at least I never looked at it that way. There are more jobs than you think that need to be controlled by govermnent, because there is too much....well he{{, why bother, you already have your mind made up and so do I, so no use having a discussion about it. Time for bed.

    June 27, 2012 at 12:42 a.m.
  • Born2Bme,

    I am not missing the point. Let's look at the economy as a swimming pool full of water. At one end the government takes and dips out a gallon of water. This gallon is then poured into two half gallon buckets belonging to two government workers. While it is being poured, some gets spilled. Then the two workers take the two half gallon buckets and walk to the other end of the pool spilling and sloshing some of the water as they go. When they reach the other end of the pool, they pour the water back into the pool. They return back to the other end and the government again removes a gallon of water and pours it into the two buckets. The workers return to the other end and again dump the water back into the pool (economy). The government keeps trying to convince us that if we keep doing this, the pool will overflow with water. IT JUST DOES NOT WORK! While there are a limited number of government jobs needed to perform nation needed services such as defense, mail, and such, these are not money makers, they are expenses. Much like repairing the brakes on your car is a required service for your safety, it did not make you money, it cost you money.

    June 26, 2012 at 11:52 p.m.
  • Vet..."I admire industry and business overall when it conducts itself in an environment of honesty and integrity. Where the line becomes blurred is the massive resources available to mega-corps to influence and guide (control) the average American. The idea of using a financial club as an unfair advantage of a smaller entity (read family) is repugnant to me."

    I agree with you about supporting business when it is conducted with honest and integrity. The problem isn't the business or the company doing the business. The problem lies with the people who run the companies, who own the businesses who are without honor and integrity.

    I know it's not nice for a person to wish not only death, but slow, painful, horrible death, on another, but I guess I'm not very nice. Every morning I check the paper to see if T. Boone Pickens is still among the living and every morning, I'm disappointed. Pickens is insidious in that he's charming, intelligent and articulate. He's also the epitome of the kind of greed about which books are written. I worked for Gulf Oil when Pickens and Jimmy Lee, the Gulf president and CEO combined to destroy a great company and in the process achieved two things. They made millions of dollars for themselves and put almost twenty-five thousand people out of work. Now Pickens is touting alternative sources of energy. Do NOT buy into anything this man says. He is beelzebub in a thousand dollar suit. I cannot believe he is any less greedy now than he was back in 1985. This is why I don't trust large companies. It's not because of the size of the companies, it's because of the caliber of the people running them. There are probably honest and honorable people running some companies but I don't know who they are and so wouldn't trust any of them.

    June 26, 2012 at 7:33 p.m.
  • butwiser,

    You are missing the part where the salaries of government workers buy products which support businesses. They also pay income tax, sales tax, school taxes, local user fees, etc.
    What you seem to want is for those "workers" to be on welfare, unemployment, or other public aid and not have to earn their money or have extra money to support big business in a meaningful way.
    One way or another, people will need , and will get, money to live on. So which way do you want it? Work for their money, or sit at home and draw just enough for the bare basics?

    June 26, 2012 at 5:48 p.m.
  • Businesses produce a profit which pays the shareholders (people) and pays the worker's a wage. The business will not survive unless it does both. Government jobs do NOT produce a profit. They do not pay for the cost of the worker. Taxpayers pay the total bill. The government job does not have to worry about how much the cost, it just takes more from the taxpayers. The only government job that should produce a profit is the post office, but because it is run like a government job, it too looses money. Obama has never worked in the private sector. All of his jobs have been non profit producing positions. If fact, only 10 percent of his administration has ever held a private sector job. Again, building bridges and roads does not create jobs. They take money from a job that does produce income. These types of things are expenses, not profits. Obama is following a socialist model and I don't want to live under socialism. Why? Because I have been producing a profit, not living off of someone else. So yes... I support Romney. He has worked a real job and he has presided over companies that have produced profits and paid workers. While he is not the one I would have chosen to lead the nation, he is clearly the best gamble for the next four years. Obama has proven he is not the one, so he does not need 4 more years. If Romney fails the same way, he will only get 4 years as well. While Obama supporters would eat the tootsie rolls found in their kitty litter boxes if Obama told them too, some of us will not be mislead.

    June 26, 2012 at 5:05 p.m.
  • cattleman cont.

    The history of welfare in the U.S. started long before the government welfare programs we know were created. In the early days of the United States, the colonies imported the British Poor Laws. These laws made a distinction between those who were unable to work due to their age or physical health and those who were able-bodied but unemployed. The former group was assisted with cash or alternative forms of help from the government. The latter group was given public service employment in workhouses.

    When the Great Depression hit, many families suffered. It is estimated that one-fourth of the labor force was unemployed during the worst part of the depression. With many families suffering financial difficulties, the government stepped in to solve the problem and that is where the history of welfare as we know it really began.

    Under President Franklin D. Roosevelt, the Social Security Act was enacted in 1935. The act, which was amended in 1939, established a number of programs designed to provide aid to various segments of the population. Unemployment compensation and AFDC (originally Aid to Dependent Children) are two of the programs that still exist today.

    http://www.welfareinfo.org/history/

    June 26, 2012 at 4:02 p.m.
  • cattleman

    We've always had some kind of assistance way back to the Civil War.. that I know of. During the Depression there were soup lines and a lot of assistance because we just don't let people die on the streets.. I'm not saying that family didn't help family back then and a lot of that is being done today but these people are being made scapegoats for all our ills..During the Depression, the poor dirt farmers of Arkansas and other states throughout the south were the scapegoats. They were called shiftless and lazy... It's funny how history repeats itself... The middle class is now the poor and a lot of our citizens are on government programs, through no fault of their own. Unemployment is at 8.1% and even higher in the inner cities but the Transportation bill just sits there as Congress fights over trivia partisan matters.

    BTW I'm not going to lie; I think a prosperous country such as ours should have a safety net for the unfortunate who fall between the cracks. I also think that everyone should be entitled to healthcare.

    Christians should know that, because there are over 2,000 references relating to taking care of the poor in their bible... Oh, we can quibble about a "culture of dependency" but I read the first thing we did in Iraq was set up free schools and Health Care for all. We did the same in Afghanistan..... I don't know of anyone who likes those who take advantage of our safety net and I hold the same sentiments for defense contractors who do the same thing.

    You’re right we could have a discussion on this because even if you don't agree with 10% of what I say, you're still a reasonable man in my opinion.

    I’m always amazed that the same amount of contempt is not aim at Wall Street who took $8 trillion out of economy through reckless ,unscrupulous but legal trades and came hat- in- hand to the taxpayer...Welfare is a budgeted item; go check the comparisons. The blame always goes downward.

    June 26, 2012 at 3:40 p.m.
  • Mike - first off - I wish I could tell what the middle class is anymore. I agree with a number of points you have made in the past where I believe you feel the push of the middle class has been downward - and the gap between middle and top is widening.

    I was lucky to have grandparents on both sides live into their 90s and 100s and then also parents that shared experiences from the depression. I don't think (from my microscopic knowledge of talking to them) that the safety nets for unemployment, care for the poor, food stamps, etc. etc. were in place when the great depression started. At least for my family the only thing that saved them was family taking care of family - and it was very difficult.
    Unfortunately - family says call Uncle Sam now - but that is a totally different subject. You and I could probably have some meaningful conversation about that also.

    What I will agree to is that the middle is getting squeezed harder and harder - with no end in sight.

    Our representation in Washington has to starting meeting in the middle to save the middle.

    June 26, 2012 at 2:55 p.m.
  • It was about this time last year when I finished a great book titled " The Great Depression America:1929-1941...thanks for the link;a good refresher.

    I was amazed at the similarities down to the word for word talking points. There are charts after charts and trends about income inequality and people ignore them and just blame who ever is in office. What did the" Occupy Wall Street" do?They didn't replace any lawmakers. Like them or not,the Tea Party helped by Fox ,talk radio and Koch Bros. elected legislators to do their bidding.

    The overburden on a middle class is what caused the fall of the Roman Empire and if you think about it, the poor and the rich are taken care of ;so the brunt of economic hard times falls on the middle class.

    June 26, 2012 at 1:19 p.m.
  • Mike, you brought up the great depression. I went looking and found this. Deja Vu

    http://www.gusmorino.com/pag3/greatde...

    June 26, 2012 at 12:51 p.m.
  • I look at it like this. America prints the money that big business enjoys so much. American taxpayers build the roads, airports, and sea ports, that big business' uses to transport their goods. Without America, and it's people, they would be nothing.
    When they move the jobs overseas just to make more of what American citizens helped them get in the first place, and in the process take their very livelyhood away from them, then it is a slap in the face of every American.
    Now, do you see why big business is such a sore spot for some? If they don't want to support American's, then they should just get themselves and their products the #### out of America and let other countries try and support their greed.

    June 26, 2012 at 12:18 p.m.
  • I admire industry and business overall when it conducts itself in an environment of honesty and integrity. Where the line becomes blurred is the massive resources available to mega-corps to influence and guide (control) the average American. The idea of using a financial club as an unfair advantage of a smaller entity (read family) is repugnant to me.

    Our founding fathers composed an incredible document to end the rule of citizens by royal decree. That it was God's direction to create kings to rule and protect the masses. Sadly, we still have kings only now they are called CEO's and they rule their feudal states (employees) with one principal, Profit. I for one believe profit is good but it would appear that a ridiculous portion of the profits wind up in a few people's pockets.

    And there we have the reason the American Dream is in danger because there is a very low financial glass ceiling somewhere below the the Executive floor with it's private elevator (little people please use the freight elevator to the hired helps floor).

    June 26, 2012 at 11 a.m.
  • We mustn't ever make the word "compromise" a cuss word.

    It is too hot outside and we can certainly agree on that...:-)

    June 26, 2012 at 10:32 a.m.
  • If we thought alike - America would become even more stagnent - we must challenge each other to think - examine - and then pick paths forward.

    Enjoy a donut with that coffee! I am on my fifth or sixth - maybe why I got wound up......have a great day - inside - to hot to be outside.

    June 26, 2012 at 10:23 a.m.
  • Good morning cattleman

    I'm proud of my left of center views and my inclination is to side with the middle class and the poor, who don't have lobbyists to make their case. I don't wear my religion on my sleeve, so I certainly would not call the corporations demons. I don't demonize them but I don't bow at their altar either.

    I am a capitalist/ shareholder but I don't believe in an unfettered free market. I no longer worry about outsourcing (or as Romney is now calling it; off shoring) because there's no way a country like ours can compete with extremely low wages, favorable environmental laws and in some cases, foreign governments building infrastructure to suit the corporations. ExxonMobil has already said that they don't owe an allegiance to any government.

    I can pick up a newspaper on any given day can see where the Fortune 500 companies are doing pretty well; in fact so well, that they have a $2 trillion CASH SURPLUS. During the 1929 Great Depression the Empire State Building, Rockefeller Square, bridges and roads were all built. That’s not what is being done today. One of the reasons for the Great Depression was that the concentration of wealth was all at the top. The rich can only buy so many yachts and corporate jets.
    I've seen stagnant wages, declining benefits, and income inequality for the past 30 years. Unions are no longer the equalizer and are being demonized by the right. Small businesses have received 18 tax cuts compared to a couple of paltry tax cuts for individuals.

    I don't envy profits and corporate CEOs benefiting from them but my sympathy lies with the 23 million who are underemployed or unemployed. Don't expect me to get all excited about another tax cut for the wealthy and the corporations because I have never bought into supply -side trickle-down economics.'

    People talking unfavorably about big business gets your goat and that your prerogative but I got upset last week, when our legislators asked Wall Street big shot, Jamie Dimon ,if there was any regulations that he could think of, that would make it easier for them. Huh? I get upset when Texas congressman, Joe Barton, apologized to the BP CEO, for the government shake down. I admire professionalism but despise incompetence. Did you see the oil companies’ response plan to a deep offshore drilling incident? It could have been written in crayon because they were all alike. But they did have a sea lion rescue plan for the Gulf of Mexico.

    OK, I’ll go finish my third cup of coffee; you have a nice day.

    June 26, 2012 at 9:43 a.m.
  • I don't understand why big business or even medium size business are demons. We as Americans owned a big piece of big business - the two auto makers. Businesses creat jobs - and yes all can say - no they don't they send them overseas - but what about all the jobs they do create here.

    People want to say we are in a global economy, but make sure the businesses in America have to provide so much more than the competition in the world. Make sure the businesses in America have to pay substantially more than the competition in the world. Seems to me so many people talk out of both sides of their mouth - big business is a demon - lets make sure we price them out of the global economy.

    So what if the owner of a big business makes lots of money - they also pour lots of money into the American economy.

    Want to make a difference - buy American if you can find it. Oh yeah - that's right - it won't make any difference because we are in a global economy.

    Fact is big business and the people that own them are demons because they have money - worked hard for it - and people want it - so make them demons and take their money. And they will slowly close down what they do have here.

    I try to stay in the middle but guess my hot button is when the very people and companies that do generate the private sector jobs become evil to some people - ticks me off.

    June 26, 2012 at 7:13 a.m.
  • ok mike. here it is. all texans should vote for romney. there are many reasons so I will limit my pitch to one reason. jobs. all of the country should look like texas. romney wants all states to look like texas when it comes to economic activity. texas leads the nation in job creation. and don't give me thet bs about low pay. that dog won't hunt. cat is great example. A big company decides to go to texas instead of mexico. taxes here are low and manpower is affordable. the dems only know how to spend and tax. folks in the us cannot afford 4 more years of uncontrolled spending. romney will get this country operating again as the most powerful economic engine in the world. what else u need?

    June 25, 2012 at 6:24 p.m.
  • Well maybe but if John Boehner (and he's a lot better politician than Romeny can ever hope to be)can't rein the 88 Tea party members in his party;I doubt Romney ever will.. He will then have to compromise with them to get anything done...If he gets elected he better hope he has coattails and gets a 60 filibuster proof senate or he will see how Obama felt....The whole GOP favors big business so he's at home there but I can see where he will hold the Ryan budget over the heads of Dems...He would have that veto pen and he's all for showing Iran how tough we are militarily.

    June 25, 2012 at 5:32 p.m.
  • It's because they think that all they need to do is cut down President Obama and Romney will win. Afterall, everyone "should" think like they do, right?
    They are going to vote for the lesser of two evils, in their minds, but it's going to bite them in the posterior when they figure out what Romney is all about, and things are not going to turn out like they think it will.
    Romney is strictly for big business, he's one of them, and he cannot see things from any point of view except theirs. I sure hope people are ready for that because it is going to change America more than any presidental term in the past, and not for the better.

    June 25, 2012 at 5:21 p.m.
  • Kinda unusual,134 days to the election and not one single pro Romney blog,LTE, or more pro Romney comments in general...It wouldn't be recruiting because he's a lock to get all of Texas's electoral votes..This time in 2008 there were some luke warm pro McCain posts and a lot of Palin supporters but the Romney support is not there..Come on there has to one Romney supporter out there.

    June 25, 2012 at 5 p.m.
  • Born--It is clear to me that not a one of them are willing to discuss Romney. I think that is interesting.

    June 25, 2012 at 4:45 p.m.
  • Not long ago, I had someone tell me that Obama had to get out of office because his wife spent too much of our money. I was thinking about the Bush tax cuts, the unpaid for wars, etc. and that is the only reason they could come up with?

    June 25, 2012 at 4:08 p.m.
  • Why can't these folks tell us why to vote for Mitt Romney instead of telling us Obama must go? They are like a broken record of FOX yammering! I get they impression they don't want to vote for Romney, either!

    June 25, 2012 at 3:41 p.m.
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    June 25, 2012 at 2:55 p.m.
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    June 25, 2012 at 1:23 p.m.
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    June 25, 2012 at 8:12 a.m.
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    June 24, 2012 at 10:45 p.m.