Thanks for clearing up the amount spent per child. I was off, but my point still stands. The cost of private school is less than what the state is spending per child, and the quality of education is better. IMHO.
The thing about funding based on butts in seats is that it makes it counterproductive for the school to dismiss unruly and disruptive students. Back in the olden times, if a student continued to be a nuisance then they were shown the door and expelled. If a student wanted to drop out, then they did and that was that. Now we are spending so much effort and resources to ensure that these same students are kept in school so the district doesn't lose that money. Seems kind of idiotic to me.
I agree that the state needs to get out of the education business.
Seems to me that SS396 wants to bring back segregated schools. Am I wrong?
Edith, you are so right. Private schools do not teach the test they teach the subjects. I always found it odd that schools would teach the test. I mean it's a basic skills test. If you teach the subjects to a degree above the basic knowledge of the subject, then anyone that passes your class should have no problem passing a test on the basic skills of those subjects. Logical, I know, but there's no room for logic in public education!
And we won't get anywhere, either, until the Texas Legislature realizes there is a difference between passing a test and getting an education.
It's not about how much money is spent on a student,you won't get anywhere until parents realize the value of an education.
@ DaleZuck - "And then get the State out of micro-managing education of OUR children". I could not agree with you more. Many of the people with TEA today, have never even taught!
@EdithAnn - "One big difference, like it or not, is that private schools are not teaching the latest test from Austin all year. They are actually teaching the subject matter." This is one of the biggest issues. School districts are required to spend so much time on preparation for these tests that they cannot provide a well rounded education. Ask nearly any instructor at Victoria College and they will likely confirm that students from St. Joe are generally better prepared for college than students from VISD.
There has been mention about basing funding on graduation rates. That will only work if the kids that don't care about learning are left out of the equation. Any plan that places more onus on the teacher in the classroom will fail. They have too much on their plate now, and as the old saying goes...you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink". There has been mention of tying teachers pay to how successful their students are. That is another idea that is doomed. One year a teacher may have a great class, with involved and caring parents and the next year they get a terrible class with uncooperative students and parents which slows the progress of the entire class.
It's an age old dilemma, same problems, same questions schools in South Texas have had for years, but now it's increasingly worse. VISD isn't the only school district fighting these issues and looking for the "magic bean". I'm glad to see that people finally call it what it is......it's a culutral issue. Period. The community has to solve it. How? Who knows, but it's not going to get better until things change. A hard line and tough stance needs to be taken by our local school administrators, superintendent, and legal officials. I agree with Holein1 and Barry 100%! The people that care need to demand change. Absolutely demand that our elected school board officials set an expectation, follow through with that expectation, and see to it that our schools become exmplerary learning environments. Unfortunately, there will be causualties along the way, but like the old saying goes "Things might get worse, before they get better". That's just the cold hard truth love it or leave it.
The parents need to be held more responsible. Make things inconvenient for parents of truant or misbehaved kids and bet they would care more. Many teachers have told me that many parents will not return a phone call about poor grades or bad behavior but skip snacktime and then the phone rings. My daughter was always told if she started skipping school then my butt would be in the seat next to her, making sure she was there and behaved. Yes I would miss work but we would just live without. Go to school with your child or go to jail - you chose to have them so it is your responsibility to raise them.
I scrimped and saved and went without on a single mom's paycheck to send her to St Jo. Not only for a better education for her but a better environment.
Excellent point roberttx
if school districts could legally separate the bottom 15% from the rest of the student body, graduation and performance shoots up
the bottom 15% doesn't want to be there
"Perhaps if we based funding levels on graduation rates things might be different."
Great point Dale and might I add let's reward those schools that show improvement but have not yet achieved their goal of curbing absenteeism.
I second the vote for holein1...:-)
"First thing we need to do is change the way that schools receive funds. Once we started paying based on attendance, then butts in seats became the main priority for the school board and superintendent. Perhaps if we based funding levels on graduation rates things might be different."
Holein1, excellent point. Change the criteria for funding, give the school districts authority to make the changes they need. And then get the State out of micro-managing education of OUR children. Holein1 for Texas Board of Education!
The teachers are afraid of the principles, the principles are afraid of the Supt, the Supt is afraid of the School board the School board afraid of the parents(voter) the parents are afraid of the children and the children ain't afraid of NOBODY
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
One big difference, like it or not, is that private schools are not teaching the latest test from Austin all year. They are actually teaching the subject matter.
These tests prove what? We have had this sort of testing for years, and can anyone show where it has improved out ranking nation-wide in education?
No doubt, parents could be more involved, but not every student has uninvolved parents. This problem has many contributing factors, and they each need to be identified and they each need to be handled.
This sound like the perfect project for, say, a group...or a commission! Yes, let's form a commission to look at what the roadblocks are, and how to eliminate them! Let's get folks from the community to meet and figure this out! We'll look at birth through post college! We'll call it..the Crossroads Commission on Education!
kids needed to be separated after middle school. those interested in going to college and professional degrees, those more interested in vocational careers and those that only goto school because they're required to by law.
three different campuses:
1. college prep
2. vocational training
3. GED factory
Excellent points holin1 and Barry
You didn't just jump into the punishment phase but instead offered some reasonable solutions and background on the subject.
I would like to know the current trends and possible correlations such as teacher- to- student ratio, cutbacks in funding, in-house sessions on dealing with the problem such as telltale signs, and how many students are we looking at; not their last names, skin color, parents income, or other subjects that people can jump on the bandwagon and say “it’s not us" to make their usual incendiary comments.
I believe if don't try to curb absenteeism at the elementary and middle school it’s going to be much more difficult to make inroads at the high school level.
The sad fact of the matter is...there are a lot of kids that do not want to be in school..period. If there is not a responsible parent/adult at home to make sure they go everyday...they don't. On the other hand, when many of those same kids do go to school, they have no intention of learning or cooperating and become discipline problems for the teachers and administrators. I recall reading a statistic somewhere that compared the amount of time teachers and administrators are spending on discipline matters as compared to what they had to spend on it twenty years ago. Staggering the difference. The side effect to this is that teachers have a difficult time teaching kids that want to learn and the bad behavior often rubs off on kids who are teetering on the edge of becoming disruptors themselves. I have worked in the schools, and I just don't see this situation being likely to improve. Teachers are burning out with increasing frequency as a result. This is one of the reasons that many people who can afford to, send their children or grandchildren to private schools. Private schools traditionally don't have these problems, and certainly not to the level of public schools. Most parents who can afford to put their children in private schools, have money, are successful and expect their children to succeed and work with the school rather than against them.
My 2 cents.
First thing we need to do is change the way that schools receive funds. Once we started paying based on attendance, then butts in seats became the main priority for the school board and superintendent. Perhaps if we based funding levels on graduation rates things might be different.
I think the amount of money spent on a child on average is something around $10,000. Tuition at the private schools in town is far less. Do you think the child gets a better education at a VISD school or private school?
If funding is results driven it will force the administration to change its modus operandi.
"And you're right every parent should be held accountable. Especially people that get things free."
So when the rich fat cat's kid skips school, no biggie? Those who don't get things free are held to a different standard? Why?
We know what angle many, like tafoer, on here are driving at. I mean code words like, “ Press 2 for English “ .
We still have truancy laws--Judge Annie Ramos handles the truancy cases.
I was making a point about tafoer only mentioning folks on government benefits. Truancy laws cover ALL students, regardless of income, so wonder why he wants to add additional sanctions to those on government assistance?
Well, I know why he does.
Those use to be called truancy laws and parents were forced to pay the price if their kids were consistently truant.
Fines, jail time and putting rules back into school that can be enforced so those that want to learn can and those that are there to simply f#ck around can be dealt with accordingly and be removed from the environment.
I've taught in this district and the lack of discipline in most classrooms is a disgrace and it is because teachers have no authority to enforce any rules any more.
If you threaten a kid with discipline you have mom or dad threatening a lawsuit.
No wonder the good teachers are heading to the oil patch.
You are freaking brilliant!
You say "This falls under the "there ought to be a law". Drop out of school and never be eligible for any type of Government handouts unless you graduate or get a GED. Your kids drop out, you lose any assistance you are receiving until they get back to school or turn 18." This is good.
So, what do we do about the kids who drop out and their parents aren't on any kind of government assistance? Get their employer to withhold their paychecks until the kid gets back in school?
Hey SS396 or should I say…….. nevermind. That comment goes to you as well.
Chest best much? Here is A REAL solution.http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/weblo...
Either we as a society look at the problems head on or we shall enslave ourselves. Here is my proposal to contribute.
1) It is time to realize that the education system isn’t one size fits all. Abolish “No Child Left Behind” and standardized testing.
2) To curl the drop-out rate is to empower that student. Students involved in extracurricular activities are less likely into gangs and drugs. Female students are less likely to be pregnant in high school. Encouraging at risk students to be involved in something. Adding reasonable points to their grade would help. Also, encourage work programs for the least wealthy students.
3) Add more “hands on” education to the curriculum. Not everyone is going to be a doctor or lawyer. Nurses, plumbers, barbers, cooks, and even farmers are needed.
4) Remove political and religious extremism from the public education. If sexually explicated material are banned, then banned Abortion posters with dead babies as well. Have a neutral, respectable, and honest sex education. Encourage Teen mothers to stay in school, but offer night classes or home schooling as an alternative.
5) Gang members and drug dealers in schools are required to be placed into “Scared Straight” programs (ie; spending the night at a cold funeral home).
6) Repeal Geanie Morrison’s HB3015 and dissolves that Education Commission.
Mr. J. Williams
This falls under the "there ought to be a law". Drop out of school and never be eligible for any type of Government handouts unless you graduate or get a GED.Your kids drop out, you lose any assistance you are receiving until they get back to school or turn 18.
Thanks for the link and this seems to be a mountain of data.
Firefox may not be able to get the link,I didn't have much trouble using Explorer but had to access the cashed copy but this link is better
Not aimed at you (this time) but throw a rock over the fence and hit dog hollars ...in due time ...lol
I'm not having much luck with that link, no matter how hard I try to use it.
Mike if you are going to be tossing around empty insinuations at least let us know who you are throwing them at.
Your little effort to toss a snide comment out without a shred of evidence is childish at best.
If you have an issue with someone jump out there and prove it.
Thanks for the link KBell
So Geanie Morrison was at the meeting. Did she bring her Crossroads Commission on Education with her? Did she offer any insight or suggestions as to how to deal with this problem?
One who changes aliases to sneak back should not be on their High Horse....maybe pun intended.
Hey guys! Rep. Morrison was at the meeting Monday night.Also, here's a link to Murdock's presentation, which should be up soon. In the meantime, there are plenty of other numbers you can spend hours looking through. www.hobbycenter.rice.edu/
Zap--I believe the comment refers to several statements made by Bob Moore during the bond issue and construction of the schools. He promoted the notion of two schools, identical in every way, being what would keep kids in schools.
That was one of his sales pitches.
Ignorant statement: "All that money spent on new schools didn't do it for ya. Oh well."
Plans for new schools (East/West)announced in 2007.
If memory serves, the lofty 'commission' formed in March 2010
Morrison's 'think tank' had NOTHING to do with new school construction.
(in fact - it had very little to do with anything constructive...)
maybe the Crossroads Commission on Education has a sick relative to take care of ?
all will be better if uh-v to am-v talks start up again im guessing
No school, no clue. There is a Parent issue here. If you want your child to grow try less video games, internet surfing, texting and a little more time at the dinner table. Maybe take them fishing and talk about what is going on in thier world and find a way to connect it with the real world. And a hug does not hurt.
Show us the power point show. Let us see what was shared with the group.
I know this problem has been continually getting worse every year. How do you turn the ever growing population that could care less about school?
Edith, your pretty sharp, what do you got up that sleeve of yours?
Since all we are hearing from the Morrison commission is crickets chirping.
All that money spent on new schools didn't do it for ya. Oh well.
LOL. Morrison and her 'commission' were never really interested in anything other than the TAMU debacle. They have since evaporated.
This would have been the perfect venue for State Rep. Geanie Morrison and her Crossroads Commission on Education to step up and report what their efforts have yielded thus far. Wonder if she was there?
They are still meeting, aren't they? They are still looking at closing the gaps, right? They are still looking at providing an educated workforce, aren't they?