From an AP report on Military.com

"Meanwhile, word has surfaced that the suspect, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, apparently attended the same Virginia mosque as two Sept. 11 hijackers in 2001."

Please go read this excellent article that is very pertinate to the subject at hand.

http://www.killology.com/sheep_dog.htm

To Wayward.
Certain privileges are reserved to US Citizens only, but the Constitutional Rights are garaunteed to Every person within the USA, not just it's Citizens.

Why are a few people in the government, not all, but some, so scared of calling this tragic event a terrorist attack. It is what it is. It was a terrorist attack, by a terrorist who chose to kill Americans rather than going to war to defend this great nation. Call it what it is. Now they have uncovered that he possibly has ties to Al Queda. Give me a break. Please start calling this a terrorist attack because that is exactly what it is.

I agree 100% JD with your comments.

I read it after I posted it & I read that too....didn't clarify it, as further pointed out, it is a valid comparison.

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VBB...Yikes! Until you mentioned the military court, I thought you were calling J a terrorist.

One of the things I am wondering is whether or not this guy will be tried for treason.

WWW....J is gone, very quiet around here these days.

The guy is a terrorist...wish they would've taken him completely out, then we wouldn't have to worry about him being turned loose in this lifetime. Good thing he will be tried by the military though.

This is what is to come with Obama. The freedom of speech police out and patrolling and limiting what US citizens have to say. As long as you agree with Obama and the liberal media supporting him and his stance, the media will be there for you but just try and give a dissenting opinion, or disagree, and you will get "This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

This shooting was absolutely terrorism as evidenced by Hassan's rantings of Alluha Akbar as he killed American citizens. Obama will make light of it though and stay away from the word terrorism so as not to offend Muslims.

It has been reported that George and Laura Bush visited Fort Hood yesterday. Where is Hussein Obama?

Thanks, Wayward, for the explanation. Since I have just started here, I don't know who is new or who is missing.

PatientEarth...I think it's kinda disingenuous of the Advocate to go around deleting posts. They own the forum, sure, but they created it for their readers to use to express their opinions about almost any topic one can imagine. To then delete opinions is, in my view, sort of cowardly. The people who use this forum are adults and shouldn't be so thin skinned as to get their feelings hurt if someone says something to which they object. Evidently, some are banned completely. I was gone on vacation for a couple weeks and, since my return, I haven't seen a single post from a guy who could make the Pope cuss. I can't imagine that he would not have had at least one opinion about the shootings in Fort Hood, especially since he seemed to go out of his way to defend muslims. I don't know if he was banned or, perhaps he's on vacation like I was. Even though he said several times that he hated me -- and others -- I miss his posts. I hope he wasn't banned.

Jones...You make me want to cuss and the Advocate won't allow that.

I'm not trying to have it both ways. I said that non-American muslims from OTHER countries who apply for entry visas to the United States should be denied. I also said that non-American muslims who are here on visa should be located and sent back home. That's what I said about non-American muslims.

I said that American citizens who are muslim have Constitutional protections and I would not violate that. I then said, perhaps using your famous "but", that regardless of the fact that American citizens who are muslim have Constitutional protections, I still don't trust them. I didn't call them terrorists, although I will admit that I believe many if not most to be sympathetic to jihad. To answer your question specifically, I don't think there is much of anything that can be done to prevent American citizens from committing atrocities. It is, after all, politically incorrect to profile people, isn't it? Citizens have the right to own firearms. A soldier certainly has access to firearms. If someone decides that allah has spoken to him and said go kill a bunch of people and does it, about the only thing that you can hope for is that somebody kills him before his toll gets very high. This is one of the reasons I believe so strongly in citizens having the right to carry guns with them. One never knows when he might be able to stop a criminal in the act before the cops can show up. Remember the Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen? If only ONE customer had been carrying, the murderer might have been stopped before his passed four or five. But then, George Henard was just a criminal, not a religious terrorist.

It would not hurt my feelings if I get removed. Obviously the VicAd editorial staff likes to edit. Their right, but why would this newspaper follow the NY Times lead and not call it the way it is. This is why this is a posting forum. WE, citizens call it as WE see it. I call it terrorism, someone else might call it something else, but if the person quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and by golly, acts like a duck, lets call him a duck. Maj Hasan acted like a terrorist, lets call him a terrorist. Our Armed Forces had been infiltrated, remember the soldier that was assigned to the Special Forces Command in Ft Bragg that ended up helping terrorist forces overseas? What about the sergeant that killed most of his company chain of command by throwing a grenade in their tent? He thought that we shouldnt had not been in Iraq and although this happened in Kuwait (just in case someone wants to point that out)he felt that he needed to stop us from killing fellow Muslims. We known that local extremist groups done the same. This is not about a particular race but for goodness sake, let's call it what it is, a terrorist attack.

Wow, it's kind of scary looking at all the removed comments. I'm new here and is this the "normal" on the forum? Will the posters be removed, if so many of their comments are removed?

I remove my own posting, can not deal with small town mentality. That is what happens when you get your journalism for Victoria College. I mean, someone is advocating forming militias and that is ok? Militias, means arming people to defend themselves to protect what they think needs protecting? But yet, I try to counter VISDMOM simple-minded attitude (her words) but using an analogy to compare hers and I get taken out twice? Sometimes, we need to throw water in people's faces to wake them up and America needs a wake up call.

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Wayward,

OK so now you are making a distinction between restricting Non-American Muslims over Americans of Muslim faith.

So tell me... what would that have done to prevent this guy who was an American (Born in Virginia)of Muslim faith from commiting his atrocity?

You can't have it both ways.
You seem to want to label all Muslims as terrorists despite the fact that it is wrong to do so, then limit it to only non-US Muslims, despite the fact that several incidents have occured that were done by American Muslims. In fact, most of the incidents that have happened post-9/11 on US soil have been Amerian Muslims.

This incident was an American Muslim. the DC Sniper was American Muslim, the Army Kid in Kuwait who grenaded his buddies was American Muslim.

You cannot lump all Muslims as terrorists nor can you limit potential Muslim terrorists to just Foreign Muslims.

Jones...I was making a distinction between American citizens who happen to be muslim and the ones from predominately muslim countries. Those are the ones I don't think should be allowed into the country and are the ones who I think should be sent home if already here. That being said, I still don't trust muslims of the American citizen variety. There is no Costitutional requirement that one citizen trust another regardless of First Amendment considerations.

"Maybe you should re-aquaint yourself with Executive Order 9066."

Yeah, yeah. But THAT executive order had to do with the internment of AMERICAN CITIZENS of Japanese descent. I'm saying that citizens of countries that are predominately muslim -- Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Lybia, etc, -- should not be granted entry visas. Those people have no Constitutional right to come here. Whether they are coming to visit relatives, to study, to get a job or to settle in as sleeper agents, they can do all that either at home or in another country which is willing to allow them in. I also said that the citizens of those muslim countries who are already here should be located and returned home -- a kinder and gentler way to deal with them than that used by President Roosevelt. Mind you, I don't expect anything like this to happen with the current administration in office. Too many muslim sympathies there.

Whether Hasan is a formal member of al-queda acting as a sleeper agent or simply an individual who decided to become a terrorist because allah told him to, the results are the same. Thirteen innocent people are dead and HE did it.

More about Michael Monsoor:
--------------------------------
During the funeral, as the coffin was moving from the hearse to the grave site, Navy SEALs were lined up forming a column of twos on both sides of the pallbearers route, with the coffin moving up the center. As the coffin passed each SEAL, they slapped down the gold Trident each had removed from his own uniform and deeply embedded it into the wooden coffin. For nearly 30 minutes the slaps were audible from across the cemetery as nearly every SEAL on the west coast repeated the ceremony.

The display moved many attending the funeral, including U.S. President George W. Bush, who spoke about the incident later during a speech stating: "The procession went on nearly half an hour, and when it was all over, the simple wooden coffin had become a gold-plated memorial to a hero who will never be forgotten.
--------------------------------
http://buttle.files.wordpress.com/200...

Gyroscope,

If that was the shooter's internet postings, then it clearly supports the contention that he was terroristically motivated rather than just a distraught suicidal idiot.

One point I have to seriously take up with what he posted however is this;

I am OUTRAGED that he equated Michael Monsoor's actions to be on a par with Terrorist suicide bombers or Kamikazes.

There is a huge difference in sacrificing your life to SAVE others and sacrificing your life to KILL INNOCENTS.

Michael Monsoor was a Navy SEAL who threw his body on a grenade to save the lives of fellow sodiers AND Iraqi soldiers.

He was awarded the Medal Of Honor (Posthumously)
----------------------------------
MASTER-AT-ARMS SECOND CLASS (SEA, AIR AND LAND) MICHAEL A. MONSOOR
UNITED STATES NAVY
For service as set forth in the following
CITATION:
FOR CONSPICUOUS GALLANTRY AND INTREPIDITY AT THE RISK OF HIS LIFE ABOVE AND BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY AS AUTOMATIC WEAPONS GUNNER FOR NAVAL SPECIAL WARFARE TASK GROUP ARABIAN PENINSULA, IN SUPPORT OF OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM ON 29 SEPTEMBER 2006. AS A MEMBER OF A COMBINED SEAL AND IRAQI ARMY SNIPER OVERWATCH ELEMENT, TASKED WITH PROVIDING EARLY WARNING AND STAND-OFF PROTECTION FROM A ROOFTOP IN AN INSURGENT HELD SECTOR OF AR RAMADI, IRAQ, PETTY OFFICER MONSOOR DISTINGUISHED HIMSELF BY HIS EXCEPTIONAL BRAVERY IN THE FACE OF GRAVE DANGER. IN THE EARLY MORNING, INSURGENTS PREPARED TO EXECUTE A COORDINATED ATTACK BY RECONNOITERING THE AREA AROUND THE ELEMENT’S POSITION. ELEMENT SNIPERS THWARTED THE ENEMY’S INITIAL ATTEMPT BY ELIMINATING TWO INSURGENTS. THE ENEMY CONTINUED TO ASSAULT THE ELEMENT, ENGAGING THEM WITH A ROCKET-PROPELLED GRENADE AND SMALL ARMS FIRE. AS ENEMY ACTIVITY INCREASED, PETTY OFFICER MONSOOR TOOK POSITION WITH HIS MACHINE GUN BETWEEN TWO TEAMMATES ON AN OUTCROPPING OF THE ROOF. WHILE THE SEALS VIGILANTLY WATCHED FOR ENEMY ACTIVITY, AN INSURGENT THREW A HAND GRENADE FROM AN UNSEEN LOCATION, WHICH BOUNCED OFF PETTY OFFICER MONSOOR’S CHEST AND LANDED IN FRONT OF HIM. ALTHOUGH ONLY HE COULD HAVE ESCAPED THE BLAST, PETTY OFFICER MONSOOR CHOSE INSTEAD TO PROTECT HIS TEAMMATES. INSTANTLY AND WITHOUT REGARD FOR HIS OWN SAFETY, HE THREW HIMSELF ONTO THE GRENADE TO ABSORB THE FORCE OF THE EXPLOSION WITH HIS BODY, SAVING THE LIVES OF HIS TWO TEAMMATES. BY HIS UNDAUNTED COURAGE, FIGHTING SPIRIT, AND UNWAVERING DEVOTION TO DUTY IN THE FACE OF CERTAIN DEATH, PETTY OFFICER MONSOOR GALLANTLY GAVE HIS LIFE FOR HIS COUNTRY, THEREBY REFLECTING GREAT CREDIT UPON HIMSELF AND UPHOLDING THE HIGHEST TRADITIONS OF THE UNITED STATES NAVAL SERVICE.
----------------------------------

Wayward,

So you recognise that not all Muslims are of the Evil variety, yet you contradict yourself by saying you are for restrictions against ALL Muslims as if they are all of the evil variety.

Part of your quote goes like this:
"... just because they happen to be muslim. But, I don't believe that..."

Whenever you make a statement then add "But.." you completely negate your first statement by everything that follows.

Maybe you should re-aquaint yourself with Executive Order 9066. And learn about what a fiasco and a black spot on America's history that was.

I don't think that he was a sleeper agent for Al Qaeda. I do think however that he was motivated by the same ideals as Al Qaeda and therefore was acting as a terrorist regardless of the fact he may not have been in direct contact with or under orders from Al Qaeda.

Wayward wrote: "You can call me a terrorist if it makes you feel morally superior; it doesn't hurt my feelings. But, I don't see where blind trust of muslims is a healthy or wise thing"

I didn't call you a terrorist. I said when you lump all Muslims in the same basket with the terrorists, you are NO BETTER THAN the terrorists who label all Americans and all Non-Muslims their enemies.

I also do not have a blind trust of Muslims. If you would actualy comprehend my posts and not mearly read into it what you want to read, you would see that I chastised VISDMom for that very thing. She tried to ignore the Muslim connection and just blow it off as another deranged shooter.

walking timebombs, sleepers, or time release capsules...just a few to describe each

keep playing with fire

doubting in disbelief

where there is smoke there is fire

To little to late

The time has come to understand who is responsible...less we forget 9/11

Know your enemy to defeat them...

Where is the Nation of Islam crying for this man doing the act???

As a thought silent again until they are fronted

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Update: This appears to be Hasan’s original Internet posting about suicide bombers in full. Quote:
There was a grenade thrown amongs a group of American soldiers. One of the soldiers, feeling that it was to late for everyone to flee jumped on the grave with the intention of saving his comrades. Indeed he saved them. He inentionally took his life (suicide) for a noble cause i.e. saving the lives of his soldier. To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause. Scholars have paralled this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers. If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory. Their intention is not to die because of some despair. The same can be said for the Kamikazees in Japan. They died (via crashing their planes into ships) to kill the enemies for the homeland. You can call them crazy i you want but their act was not one of suicide that is despised by Islam. So the scholars main point is that “IT SEEMS AS THOUGH YOUR INTENTION IS THE MAIN ISSUE” and Allah (SWT) knows best

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dollysdad...THIS time, I agree with you completely about Hasan's soul.

Jones..."VISDMom is right when she talks that about a lot of evil has been 'done in God's name' on behalf of Christianity. She has her points"

I never said evil hasn't been done in the name of christianity. I recognize that it has -- centuries ago, regarding the crusades which is what has islam poppa oscared. They're still holding grudges after 500 years even though, for the most part the christian crusaders generally got their collective butts kicked.

I also recognize that not ALL muslims are of the evil variety. I don't support for one minute violating American citizen's rights just because they happen to be muslim. But, I don't believe that our State Department should ever again issue entry visas to anyone from a predominately muslim country and, I believe that the visas for all foreigners from those coungtries living here now should be revoked and the individuals returned home. And never forget that we don't hear from the "peaceful" muslims -- even Americans -- about how they disapprove of the horrors committed in the name of their religion. Have you seen demonstrations where peaceful muslims protest that radicals are hijacking a peaceful and gentle religion? I sure haven't. Islam wants to dominate the world. They are not willing to tolerate conflicting points of view.

We don't know if Hasan was a sleeper agent waiting for an opportunity to do mahem or if he is simply a religious nut bent on mahem. It does seem that, if the muslims don't have sleeper agents in place, there are a lot of muslim religious nuts willing to die in order to kill Americans. You can call me a terrorist if it makes you feel morally superior; it doesn't hurt my feelings. But, I don't see where blind trust of muslims is a healthy or wise thing.

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WoofWoof,

Your last remark was disingenuous and wrong that you directed at VISDMom.

I seriously doubt she has forgotten those attacks. No one on this thread is doubting the numerous terrorist attacks that have taken place in the name of Islam.

Her point which is correct and which you are ignoring and just attacking her over having that point is this:
That evil has been done in Christianity's name as well.

Maybe you don't like to accept that but it is a fact. Ignoring it then attacking VISDMom does not make that fact go away, it just makes you an [unprintable]

coolgranny: "A cousin of the shooter said he was born and raised in America. The family is in shock."

So was John Lindh, the American Taliban. Captured in Afghanistan fighting on the side of the Taliban.

I would also like to remind coolgranny, VISDMom, and any others with their ways of thinking of this incident from 2003.
---------------
An American soldier has died in a grenade attack carried out by another US serviceman at a military camp in Kuwait.Fifteen troops were also injured when the soldier, named as Sergeant Asan Akbar, lobbed three grenades into tents housing commanding officers from the 101st Airborne Division at Camp Pennsylvania.
---------------

Again in this case the killer was a so called Muslim-American.

Were they both sleep agents? doubt it.

Were they acting on their own initiative but on behalf of the terrorists? Yes I do think they were. Both back in 2003 and today in Ft. Hood.

VISDMom, I think you are (no offense meant) doing a ostrich head in the sand moment when you are trying to avoid the implications that this man was acting (if not working) on behalf of jihadists. I think there is a strong case that he was.

The fact that this guy was a senior officer goes against your "troubled mind" theory as men like that generally don't make officers and don't get promoted to Major if they do. This isn't just some military equivelant of a School shooting (Though he did go to Virginia Tech. Sorry, couldn't help myself)

But RedXIII and some others go too far in labelling ALL MUSLIMS as terrorists. That is just as wrong as ignoring any potential terrorist connection.

Wayward,
VISDMom is right when she talks that about a lot of evil has been 'done in God's name' on behalf of Christianity. She has her points.

I personally believe in God and Jesus. However I have little faith in Organized religion regardless of what denomination or Faith. More evil has been done by man 'claiming' to be inspired by God, Jehovah, Allah, or whatever you want to call him.

When you or WoofWoof or RedXIII talk of Islam in a light that paints every practitioner the same as Al Qaeda terrorists, then you are no better than the terrorists who paint all Americans, Man, Woman, and Child, as their enemy.

Don't ignore the muslim connection, but don't label all muslims as terrorists.

Both actions are wrong.

VISDMOM has forgotten about the USS Cole bombing,1998 US Embassy attack, 1993 World Trade Center bombing, and Sept. 11, 2001, but remembers the Salem witch trials. Wow, just wow.

If I may - what this man has done is so reprehensible as to be beyond words. However, Islam is not the only religion who has perpetrated horrible acts on others in the name of religion. Have you ever heard of a little thing called the Inquisition? Or the Salem Witch Trials? Or the Crusades? All of those atrocities were committed in the name of Christianity, and I can promise you that those atrocities approached or exceeded the violence being currently perpetrated by Muslim extremists. No, those Christians did not have suicide bombers, but numbers of dead were still large (thousands dead; men, women and children, just like now), for just as specious a reason.

I am not a Muslim; I consider myself a Christian. But Christianity is not always all about sweetness and light and love thy neighbor.

I don't think this man did this because he is/was Muslim; I'm not convinced that has anything to do with it. From reports, he had a history of instability that was never addressed. If his name had been John Doe, he was a Catholic (or Baptist or Lutheran or what have you) and he had shouted in English "God is Wonderful" as he was shooting, would everyone be saying "That just goes to show that all (insert religion here) are killers?"

I apologize if this all sounds simple-minded. I'm not trying to defend this terrible man. I would not have shed a single tear if he had died. My heart is terribly saddened for those who DID lose their lives yesterday and for for their families. I hope everyone will do whatever they can to assist with blood drives or donations going on in Victoria to lend assistance.

Thanks to the Vicad for removing my last comment about ALLAHU AKBAR. I considered removing it myself but waited for you to do it.
I think our citizens need to read about the Muslim Twenty Year Plan here...http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33898

From a story in the Houston Chronicle by Scott Huddleston and Sig Christenson: "Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the base commander at Fort Hood, said on NBC's Today Show that witnesses heard Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan shout "Allahu Akbar!" before opening fire. The phrase means "God is great!" in Arabic."

I understand the First Amendment and Congress can't pass any laws respecting an establishment of religion, but that doesn't mean that on a personal level I have to be understanding and accepting of the most vile and violent of acts because they are perpetrated in the name of religion. Kind and peaceful -- uh huh, right.

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From what I've heard the signs were all there for a long time. I watched several news coverages and flipping back and forth between two majors I caught a lot of candid interviews that seemed to have been ended abruptly by outside influence. The shooters comments (if they were true recolections), pointed towards his capacity for extremeism. My jury is still out but my speculation is a full box I'll keep a lid on until any official reports begin to come out. Hopefully today. The press conference was helpful in that it cleared upa lot of the fog of the situation. Lets see what we can learn today.
I am glad he is alive to answer for his actions!

Uhhh, that "I'm not" in front of "I revere the Constitution" was supposed to have been deleted. Sorry 'bout that. There was a loose nut behind my keyboard and it's gettin' late.

dollysdad...And I stand by mine. I'm not looking to have it both ways. Removing appendeges one at a time, over the course of several days violates the Constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. On the other hand, an investigation into his actions IS Constitutional and prudent. I'm not I revere the Constitution the way a baptist preacher revers his bible. I don't want the US to descend to the level of islamic society. I don't think there is ANYTHING good about islam.

Ok, I don't understand, WWW. First you condemn action, then you condemn inaction.

You can't have it both ways.

I stand by my conment.

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A cousin of the shooter said he was born and raised in America. The family is in shock.

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