Malaise, how are you today? Have you read the bill? Please check my other blog if not.

"Although nearly 46 million Americans are uninsured” Fabricated number that is grossly over inflated (and I mean grossly over inflated). Please check your facts.

"the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations" this is something to be proud of.

"Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development." Yes they do a good job of rationing which is what we will be doing as well if we attempt a socialized plan. Being I have friends and family in Canada I can speak first hand about family members that have literally died waiting on treatment that was rationed away. One died knowing there was treatment in the US that could have potentially cured him, but there was no cost justification in the socialized plan for him to try the treatment. These stories are all over the place and well documented.

Please go read the bill for what it is and not what you want it to be.

Facts on the Cost of Health Insurance and Health Care

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

By several measures, health care spending continues to rise at a rapid rate and forcing businesses and families to cut back on operations and household expenses respectively.

In 2008, total national health expenditures were expected to rise 6.9 percent -- two times the rate of inflation.1 Total spending was $2.4 TRILLION in 2007, or $7900 per person1. Total health care spending represented 17 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP).

U.S. health care spending is expected to increase at similar levels for the next decade reaching $4.3 TRILLION in 2017, or 20 percent of GDP.1

In 2008, employer health insurance premiums increased by 5.0 percent – two times the rate of inflation. The annual premium for an employer health plan covering a family of four averaged nearly $12,700. The annual premium for single coverage averaged over $4,700.2

SNIP

Although nearly 46 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens.3
Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.4

SNIP

We are already paying for the uninsured, and we aren't getting a good deal. It would be cheaper to have a program similar to what is in other industrialized countries. 17% of GDP here versus 10-11% in other nations.

I'm not talking about death. Death is quick and the cost of a funeral is not what I'm talking about.

Suzy, I have done with and I have done without. I have literally lived on the street, paycheck to paycheck and lived in homes you would drool over. I have walked, driven junker cars and cars that are worth probably more than you make in a year. I am in the middle of my 30s and have the lungs of a 70 year old that no one is going to be able to do anything about, insurance, bureaucrat, doctor or otherwise.

We all die. There is nothing you can do about it. I just donot want you in my wallet dictating to me who I need to be generous to. I am capable of deciding that for myself.

OK, huygens
what's your solution? Let all the people who cannot, do without, and go out into the desert and die.
As long as you have your health and can do for yourself, screw everyone else? You could lose your health tomorrow, and your ability to support yourself and your family. Would you see things in a different way then...when you were one that was being looked down upon and being sneered at for being lazy and sucking off the taxpayers, through no fault of your own? Just remember, that can happen in the blink of an eye.

Suzy, greed abounds in all societies. When the individual has freedom, choices, and unencumbered by the chains of regulation, he has the opportunity to better himself, to aspire, to reach for more. When government in any form, shackles individuals and makes them part of a collective, the individual becomes no more that an ant in a colony, directionless, with no hope of change for himself or his own. He is a slave. Do you believe that those that will decide for you how to handle your healthcare lack Greed somehow? Do you somehow believe that because you will it a government bureaucrat with no competition will treat you fairer than an insurance agency that knows you can choose a competitive insurance company if they treat you poorly? Do you think I have the right to dictate your fate if I become that bureaucrat, or you my fate if you become that bureaucrat?

I believe people want to be heard, because this is a big issue that will be felt by everyone. It is hard to hear the truth from every side, but to get a good look at how government handles health reform I read newspapers/blogs from Canada, I have check out the neat "wait time list for doctors/hospitals" where you push a button on what you need, hospital that you are allowed to go to, and so on. What really creeps me out more than the long wait times, was a blogger who stated, 'well as we all know if you have the money you can get in!!' So, this is a big issue, and I noted today that Canada's bankruptcy is now at 54%, and President Obama's claim that health reform is needed because so many people here go into bankruptcy, really? Besides that look at Massachusetts, the medical care for all is bankrupting their state already, so what is real, words or what is really happening.

huygens
what's your point?

Suzy, watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X...

The lack of laws made this Country great?
The lack of oversight, bypassing, or overlooking, the laws, and Corporate greed is what is sinking this Country.

Malaise, it is truly a shame that Republicans gave up their conservative principals like they did in so many cases. It truly is sad. I would like to counter that Bush, although not my favorite president, did allow dissenters in to debate at town halls. Granted they were screened to keep the loony’s out (i.e. Code Pink), but he took some hits to the nose. These politicians need to wake up, both Republican and Democrats and realize this country was made great by the lack of laws and control by the federal government, and the more we try to control things, the worse off they get.

Suzy, debate is when opposing sides are allowed to participate. The opposition to this debate has literally been ignored. There are three primary sides to this debate and only the side that is for the bill with little to no changes are welcome to the Town Hall meetings. This is well documented. Videos of people being denied access to the meetings, people being arrested for showing up and demanding to speak with their elected official, people literally being physically abused and receiving death threats for opposing this bill. The only recourse is for the to opposing sides to stand up and make their voice heard.

What is happening is not debate, the town halls are propaganda platforms for the Healthcare Bill and those opposed are fed up with being ignored.

Looks like the FBI is going to investigate the painting of a swastika on the office sign of GA Democrat David Scott. Looks like someone didn't like what he said, so they reacted with destruction of property.

The THM with Arlen Specter was pretty well handled this morning except for a couple of minor incidents. That THM was covered almost entirely on MSNBC, so don't claim that the MSM is airing only the negative stuff.

Keep in mind, Bush wouldn't let anyone in to ask any dissenting questions when he was president. His ego couldn't handle it. The dissenters were sent to Free Speech Zones created when he was in office.

Keep in mind, the biggest giveaway to the pharmaceutical industry through Medicare was pushed by a Republican Congress and signed into law by a Republican president. The Republicans don't have fiscal conservatism to stand on any more given their pathetic record.

Participating doesn't include being rude, obnoxious, and trying to yell over everything that is said, trying to drown everything out except what they want to be heard.
A debate is...one person talk, then give the other person a turn to talk, and not try to drown them out.
I've seen the coverage of these town meetings, and it is a disgrace. It's obvious that the opponents of this bill are an organized effort to squash it. That is not, in no way, a debate.

Every 2 years. 2010 will be an exciting election. Lets see how the media tries to slant when a bunch of these 'elitist' get the boot from 'Astroturf'.

It's interesting that the OMM (Obama Mass Media) concentrates on airing the town hall meetings where people are shouting, but not the ones where questions are being asked calmly. Can you say "slanted coverage"?

The Dems knew they were going to be asked tough questions when they failed to get a health bill passed before the break. They knew that the Tea Party folks they loved to ridicule would be waiting for them. People are rightfully angry and now Pelosi and company are having to face some unpleasant music.

Trying to pass off an unhappy public as being part of a phony "AstroTurf" reaction is weak, and then to add "UnAmerican"....how lame, and how sad!

Am I correct in understanding that the Speaker is up for re-election in 2010? That'll be a race worth watching! ;>)

Suzy what manner of debate disallows those that oppose the topic from participating? The 'tactics' you refer to are a result of open Town Hall meetings being controlled and manipulated. There are documented cases of opponents of this bill being arrested for request to meet with their elected officials, the use of 'thugs' to remove anyone that is opposed to the bill in a town hall meeting, constituents being lied to about the availability of their elected officials, etc...what do you recommend? There are serious problems with not just the idea of this bill, but the lies surrounding it, the nature of the control that is embedded in it, the power this bill give the government over our lives, etc….

I know that no one is against free speech. They are against the elementary tactics being used.
It seems comical to me that some of you gripe about how debates are conducted on here, but totally think that it doesn't apply anywhere else.
What the rabid protesters are doing is disallowing meaningful debate. Debate that just might bring forth some brilliant answers, and/or compromises, to the healthcare problems that we all face.

Nuclearmothman, can you provide a link to any credible news article or documentation, maybe a commercial by an insurance company or the like, that validates your comment: "mostly being fostered and fomented by the insurance industry lobbyists and their Republican enablers". I will give you that interpretation of the noted items I posted is up to the individual, but both items are documented and valid. I interpret any 'public servant' alluding to any 'citizen' in some of the ways we have seen done in the past few weeks as intolerable. Most of those that are protesting (I being one) cannot get a proponent of the Healthcare Reform bill to listen to us. They refuse to schedule meetings with anyone opposed to the bill; will not return phone calls, etc... The only means individuals that are opposed to this bill have to voice their opinions is in an open Town Hall forum. These now seem to only be available to those that support the bill and anyone opposed is either exclude or muscled out (again documentable). Again I ask: can you provide a link to any credible news article or documentation, maybe a commercial by an insurance company or the like, that validates your comment?

The problem is not the opposition to health care reform (mostly being fostered and fomented by the insurance industry lobbyists and their Republican enablers), but the tactics these so-called "grassroots" protesters are using. As to "huygens" examples, there are always two ways of looking at things. And clearly, as most conservatives tend to do, the examples used are taken out of context, or completely misrepresented.

1) In the brief YouTube clip, Rep. Dingell did not "brand" anyone. He merely said that he faced similar opposition to the Civil Rights bill by the same sort of unruly crowds as are cropping up at these town hall meetings on health care reform.

2.) Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Hoyer did not say anyone was "unpatriotic." What Speaker Pelosi wrote was, "Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American." Ms. Pelosi is clearing attacking the tactics, not the people, who shout and disrupt other speakers at the town hall meetings.

3.) Nowhere on this site is "health care reform" mentioned. The organization clearly states its mission concerned environmental issues and human rights.

I only report is as it is. It is a shame that 'elected officials' fail to understand that they are 'public servants' and answer to the public. They seem to think that the pubic are the servants to them.

President was a active ACORN member, SEIU donated millions to his campaign.
President was a professor of Constitutional law, but is not clear on free speech under the 1st amendment, CEO community organizer via ACORN.

Now he claims to have the right to tell the American public to shut up because they oppose his healthcare plan. Free speech only applies to the Left the rest of America shut up.

I do think President Obama has got a little more than he bargain for. He just new the American public would see it his way, and along with all of his visions. As the lady said in a town hall meeting today. “you have done nothing but awaken a sleeping giant.”

:) OH be careful with the KKK reference. You might get unwelcomed banning.