Not really when I ask I a question;I usually know the answer:-)

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/...

Refuse="Show unwillingness towards"...This was explained and fact checked over two years ago.

You posted "Who stated in his own words he would not salute the flag"...

Then you should remember the questions he was asked about the first picture that came out of him not saluting the flag? Pictures and videos speak alot louder than words Mike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU9iCA...

JR74
Can you cite a legitimate source where the president of the United States or candidate said he refused to salute the flag?...I remember the flag pin issue.

We attacked a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and displaced or killed over 2 million Iraqis,and angered our allies with old Europe new Europe, and all the bad France references might merit an apology ,if you want any kind of cooperation from them in the future..But if you are one that thinks we are infallible,then by all means we should not ever apologize..I am sorry .I don't buy into that Dick Cheney mindset...I am for what ever works; carrots or sticks.

Mike said
"I hope you don't think George W. Bush was the model for diplomacy...e.g. " Bring them on"..We tried "cowboy diplomacy" for eight years without any success.."

I didn't say that Mike, you know I wasn't a big fan of Bush either, but at least he never appologized for America, wasn't scared to stand up to another country, and he DID salute the AMERICAN flag unlike your president. Who stated in his own words he would not salute the flag. It's a discrase to this country when the man who is supossed to be in charge refuses to place his hand over his heart or salute the flag.

Tell you what Patientearth, to be fair,Obama bowed to the Saudi king. I do believe that respecting other cultures is important, however protocol spicifically states that our president would not bow to any other head of states. Just like our flag would not we lowered for another flag, is just protocol. Just a point, I mean, why fought a little war over 233 years ago in order to not bow to any king or emperor. You might recall that little event back in the 1908's olympics when Ralph Rose refused to dip the flag for King Edward VII. His reasoning according to him was ""This flag dips for no earthly king." Now, you could argue that this was personal however, the "no dip rule" became part of the U.S. Flag Code in 1923. Once again, the American flag is our symbol just like the president is our symbol.
If he were any other civilian by all means, he can do as he pleases but when is the head of state of this country, he is does not bow to anybody, that includes the emperor of Japan, the queen of England or the Saudi King. You can go ahead and run with the kiss on the lips, remember, dont ask, dont tell.

suzie wrote suzy wrote " do think that America owes the world an apology..

According to the Rasmussen poll opinion on this it is pretty well a party decision

But just 32% of U.S. voters agree with the idea that the world is a community of nations, more alike than different in outlook and interest. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 44% disagree and 24% are not sure.

A solid plurality of Democrats (47%) share Obama’s global perspective, but 60% of Republicans and 49% of voters of voters not affiliated with either party don’t think the president’s ri

Why don't you enlighten us. You sound like you come from good old white plantation owner stock. Why were Blacks taught that they were inferior to Whites?

I was born and grew up in the segregated South during the thirties. I look back and see how wrong they were. But Blacks were thought to be inferior by whites. In fact the brutal truth was that in East Texas during the 30's Blacks were really just considered a higher form of live stock. The Ministers preached it, the candidates for national office endorsed segregation openly. FDR refused to integrate the armed forces. Texas was strictly a One party State DEMOCRAT Election in the primary was equivilant to being elected.

The removal of headware by a Black when talking to a White person is a good local example of how subjugated people were expected to act.

I don't know about now but in the past in Texas convicts of all colors were expected to take oiff their caps when addresing a guard. In the military a salute to an officer is an acknowledgement that the person saluting is inferior to the one receiving the salute.

suzy wrote " do think that America owes the world an apology.. It's my opinion and I don't expect anyone to see things the way I do though

According to a Rasmussen poll the majority of the American voter don't agree with this opinion
Only 32% agree with suzie' opinion.

suzy wrote "It's my opinion and I don't expect anyone to see things the way I do though"

The one thing I always expect and am never disapointed is that suzie opinion will always match the spin of the Democrat party on that particular subject. Any subject

Rasmussen Poll

As part of his effort to improve America’s international standing, President Obama has spoken of the world as a community of nations with more in common than divides us.

But just 32% of U.S. voters agree with the idea that the world is a community of nations, more alike than different in outlook and interest. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 44% disagree and 24% are not sure.

A solid plurality of Democrats (47%) share Obama’s global perspective, but 60% of Republicans and 49% of voters of voters not affiliated with either party don’t think the president’s right.

Fifty-five percent (55%) of liberals agree with Obama that the world is a community of nations with more in common than not. Fifty-nine percent (59%) of conservatives reject that world view.

Gyro: "In the old Democrat ruled segregated South why do you think Blacks were taught to take off their cap or hat when addressing a White person?"

I don't know Gyro. Why don't you enlighten us. You sound like you come from good old white plantation owner stock. Why were Blacks taught that they were inferior to Whites?

Mmmm, Patientearth, I do have Mayan in my blood, Pipil to be more exact, so I do know what they can teach, I had read the Polpot Vuh, not enough to be an expert but I read enough. There is difference between holding hands or kissing on the cheeks which is tradiontally acceptable in the middle east as a sign of friendship to bowing to an emperor. None of our previous leaders have done it. Bowing to an emperor, just like kissing of the ring of the Pope, would be seen as being sudjugated to the power of that person compared to showing friendship. I am Catholic, so once again, do not go there about the kissing of the ring. I was not a big Bush fan but do think that your comparison is fair.

So, when we teach our little darlings to bow and curtsy at special functions, we are teaching them what?? that they are lower (or showing servitude) than the next person?

They are being taught to ACT OUT long dead customs or fairy tales.

"we are teaching them what?? that they are lower (or showing servitude) than the next person?"

In the particular incident being acted out that is actually what they are being taught to show.In the old Democrat ruled segregated South why do you think Blacks were taught to take off their cap or hat when addressing a White person?

I've seen people literally jump through hoops to keep customers.

Main Entry: lit·er·al·ly
Pronunciation: \ˈli-tə-rə-lē, ˈli-trə-lē, ˈli-tər-lē\
Function: adverb
Date: 1533
1 : in a literal sense or manner : actually

I have my doubts about anyone actually jumping thru a hoop for customers . Did they furnish the hoop, or did the customer? When someone says they LITERALLY did something it mean no exagaration, no other thing the forementioned thing was actually what they did. I have seen many posters on here complain that their written and posted words were taken too literally. Meaning for real.

Suzy,
The United States owes NO apology to anyone. This country sends more aid than any other country in the world… This President has a bigger agenda than you realize. He doesn’t care about you or anyone else. It’s all about the Big O logo. Do some home work on this man you might learn something…

So, Gyro, it is okay with you that Bush kissed and held hands with a Saudi King? Where's the difference?" AS I wrote pretty plainly before
there is no difference.

And now the question is "Does it make a difference to the Straight Party forever Democrats on here?"

A political party is not at the core of my personal
belief system. My first Presidential vote was for Truman in 1948. I figured I owed Harry one for dropping the big un on Japan. I voted for Carter in 1976 because I was thought that he was really an honest man that we needed in Washington at that time after Watergate etc. I don't doubt even now that he was honest, but a little simple in his beliefs and policies.

From my post at 12;29

Don't bother with the usual typical blather about how some Republican showed deference to a foreign leader as far as I am concerned My opinion of ANY of our so called leaders( R-D-Ind) who do it is And the mule you rode up on

Washington set a precedent for what 16 years? Jefferson set one that was good for over 200 years. I would think that with the long history of servitude and slavery suffered by and cited so offen by the Black race Obama as the first AA President would demonstrate to the world that those days are over and gone for good

Daniel Ruddy writes on politics and history. His upcoming book, “Theodore Roosevelt’s History of the United States” (Harper Collins), is due out in April 2010

Another president who promoted this egalitarian ideal was Franklin Roosevelt.

In 1939 he invited the king and queen of England to visit the United States to bolster Anglo-American unity in the face of the growing fascist threat. Roosevelt never bowed to the king or queen — or any foreign royalty, for that matter.

On this special occasion, he simply demonstrated American hospitality.

As the British journalist Alistair Cooke detailed: “Roosevelt took them [the Royal couple] off to Hyde Park [his Hudson River estate] and drove his own hand-run automobile into the grounds and gave them a hot dog lunch. Well, this was a shocker to the British, but it's the thing he would do. You see, he was a natural aristocrat, Roosevelt was. He didn't have to put on airs.”

Roosevelt was also an American through and through and secure in his standing as a world leader.

There is a lesson here for President Obama, who appears intent on upending more than two centuries of American protocol. When he as president bows before a Saudi king or a Japanese emperor, he is sending an implicit message to millions of people around the world that the leader of the free world accepts the notion that some people are born to a higher rank than others.

But when our president stands up straight and extends his hand in friendship to all civilized nations, there is no danger, there is only opportunity — opportunity to communicate the values and spirit that Jefferson so eloquently conveyed to the rest of the world — “that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

It is a little amazing to me that some who write so fervently on here of the "poor oppressed working class, sweat and even blood for the rich"yakity yak would approve of such a gesture showing ackowledgement of class differernces by the POTUS no less

.

What does a bow express? Easy. Subservience. A bow says "You are my superior. I offer you my exposed neck so that you may cut off my head, if that is what you wish." It is the human equivalent of the vanquished wolf tossing back its head to expose its throat to the victor. It is begging for mercy.No wonder that many westerners, especially Americans, feel queasy at the thought of bowing

suzie wrote
"The first few Presidents all bowed to foreign leaders, so they wouldn't have to touch them"

And these first few presidents were named ?????????

In the bad times 30s Populist Democrat Sen Huey Long drew millions of followers and was set to make a run for the Democrat nomination or run as an independent against FDR on the slogan "EVERY MAN A KING, BUT NO MAN WEARS A CROWN"

"Unforunately" Huey was assasinated and the assasinator killed and that was the name of that tune.

Don't bother with the usual typical blather about how some Republican showed deference to a foreign leader as far as I am concerned My opinion of ANY of our so called leaders( R-D-Ind) who do it is And the mule you rode up on

To call B.O. "ineffective" seriously underestimates his potential for damage...

• Wesley Pruden is editor emeritus of The Washington Times

"Some of the president's critics are giving him a hard time, and it's true that this president seems never to have studied much American history. Not bowing to foreign potentates was what 1776 was all about. His predecessors learned with no difficulty that the essence of America is that all men stand equal and are entitled to look even a king, maybe particularly a king, straight in the eye. Can anyone imagine George Washington, John Adams or Thomas Jefferson making a similar gesture of servile submission? Or Harry Truman? Or FDR, who famously served the lowly hot dog, with ballpark mustard, to the king and queen of England? John F. Kennedy, on the eve of a trip to London, sharply warned Jackie not to curtsy to the queen.

Douglas MacArthur, who ranked above mere heads of state in his own mind, once invented his own protocol on greeting Emperor Hirohito. The emperor, the father of Akihito, wanted to meet MacArthur soon after he arrived to become the military regent of Japan in 1945, perhaps to thank him for saving the throne at the end of World War II. When the emperor invited MacArthur to call on him, the general sent word that the emperor should call on him - speaking of breaches of custom - and the two men were photographed together, astonishing the Japanese. The emperor arrived in full formal dress, cutaway coat and all, and MacArthur received him in summer khakis, sans tie, with his hands stuffed casually in his back pockets. Further astonishing the Japanese, he towered over the diminutive emperor.

But Mr. Obama, unlike his predecessors, likely knows no better, and many of those around him, true children of the grungy '60s, are contemptuous of custom. Cutting America down to size is what attracts them to "hope" for "change." It's no fault of the president that he has no natural instinct or blood impulse for what the America of "the 57 states" is about. He was sired by a Kenyan father, born to a mother attracted to men of the Third World and reared by grandparents in Hawaii, a paradise far from the American mainstream.

He no doubt wants to "do the right thing" by his lights, but the lights that illumine the Obama path are not necessarily the lights that illuminate the way for most of the rest of us. This is good news only for Jimmy Carter, who may yet have to give up his distinction as our most ineffective and embarrassing president."

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=...
Let's put some gas on this fire...

Yes Suzy,a great deal of it is just political... 15 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and the right-wing thought nothing of it when then-President George W. Bush walked hand-in-hand with Saudi Prince , on American soil at that..The Bush ranch... By the time they learn that other presidents showed the same respect, it is time for them to tune in to Rush Limbaugh and Fox to get their next marching orders, on what to be angry about...Notice they never come back and say they were wrong.

I am 64 years old and I have never seen the micromanaging on a minute by minute basis of an American president (no solutions offered,just complaints)... The political bashing of presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush were just a walk in the park,compared to what is happening today ..IMO e.g. Today's ridiculous letter to the editor.

People should wait a few days before reacting because someone will go down to the basement of the archives and pull out a video of President Eisenhower bowing to French President Charles de Gaulle and at another time to the Pope,then they could show President Nixon bowing down to hear or as a formal greeting to then Japanese Emperor Akihito...President Obama obviously likes to respect our adversaries and allies around the world..He said so in his inaugural address...

In the business world, I bet young staffers are learning the customs and traditions of the foreign nations they will trade with, so the CEO can bow,shake hands, or even hold hands to get that contract..It's called good business.

JR74,I hope you don't think George W. Bush was the model for diplomacy...e.g. " Bring them on"..We tried "cowboy diplomacy" for eight years without any success..

That is foreign LEADERS...fingers are faster than the brain this morning.

And Bush never applogized to other foreign for America.

I have held hands with lower level dignitaries, and I've been kissed on both cheeks by higher level dignitaries. I have also received a Christian kiss or two on the mouth.

Patientearth, I was not going to comment on your comparison but you do need some insight, just in case you never been outside Victoria. In most countries in the east, holding hand is normal. Is a show of FRIENDSHIP. We are not going to get into the specifics whether is was for oil or not, inconsequential to the point. However, when the POTUS bows to another person, he is representing the U.S. and basically is saying that we are bowing to the emperor of Japan. Now, I would suggest that you get yourself some cultural learning going on and I do not mean Mayan or Toltec or ..... but traditions.