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To you all, it has been legal for for prescription service providers to purchase drugs from foreign sources including Canada, Israel and others that meet FDA quality standards. It has not been legal for INDIVIDUALs to purchase drugs from foreign sources.
If you order drugs from foreign sources you take your chances making through U.S. Customs.
However, after the meetings that OBAMA had with Pharma this PAST SUMMER, the FDA began sending out notices to prescription providers such as Walgreens, Medco, etc. that certain manufactures were "being investigate" and therefore were no longer an approved source. Ironically all of these are foreign manufacturers.
While at the same time there US manufacturers that are under even stricter investigations and audits that are still being approved to manufacture and sell drugs even though they have a history of manufacturing low grade/quality drugs. One manufacturer with such a history is Mylan.
These decision were NOT made during the BUSH administration. These decisions have been made since Obama has been in office.
Bush did not allow individuals to purchase from foreign sources but service providers could.
Buried within the new medical bill --unless it is removed, and I doubt it because of the promise Obama made to Pharmas, are stipulations that drugs will be manufactured in the United States and sold before any are purchased from foreign countries.
What this means? Prices will increase and as what already has happened multiple times and law suits are claiming --there is poor product quality and efficacy for the US generic brands. Not just medicare patients are being forced on this generic krap; Blue Cross Blue Shield requires it.
And yes I am sure if the the stipulation makes the final bill, you will find most insurances following suit. So be very careful about monitoring whether your generic medications really work.
I have already had two that two different doctors are appealing because of problems and law suits regarding the generic products. Both doctors state that dosage varies from lot to lot and can be life threatening. This is a sad state of affairs for US drug manufactures --they are greedy pigs willing to kill us--no conscious.
As if I did not have enough to worry about --now I have to worry about the manufacturer of each drug --researching them and making sure they deliver quality products. Makes me want to stick a couple of pitch forks in a few people in Washington D.C.
To clarify, the importation restrictions were placed on the drugs needed for Medicare Part D. It sounds like the avenues available to the rest of us could be shut down soon.
blue_marble: "This is nothing and I mean NOTHING but Obama politics."
Actually, this tactic is just another example of high-stakes cronyism that spans administrations and knows no political party. Stiff restrictions on drug importation were rammed into the bank-busting "Medicare Prescription Drug Act of 2003" under the sage oversight of the other illusory wing of the Republicrat Party.
Incidentally, our Congressman has worked hard to lower health care & prescription drug costs to only meet the resistance of the representatives of the Military-Medical-Agricultural-Industrial Complex (Congress). Read about some of Dr. Paul's efforts below.
Reimportation of Prescription Drugs:http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/con...
Prescription Drug Affordability Act:http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/con...
And so on:http://tinyurl.com/DrPaul-HealthCare
Actually holly1, the Texas State Board of Pharmacy controls & regulates the disposition of prescription medication. AS it stands today, if certain medications are properly packaged & meet certain guidelines, they can be returned to the pharmacy for credit on MCR payed meds ONLY. These rules are in place to protect the consumer, remember the tainted Tylenol issue way back when? That is why there are strict guidelines concerning medications being returned once they have left a Pharmacy. All states don't have such strict regulations.
Here is one for all of this. That even though the current medical bill has not been passed (and they want the language in there to prevent foreign drug companies from importing medications to US, the FDA is now putting foreign drug manufacturers under "examination" and requiring that they no longer import certain medications.
Three manufactures have been shut out that I know of. The new manufacturer of choice for certain generic medication is a US company that has all plants under investigation for poor quality control on all medications. Meaning that every pill they ship out does not contain all the medication it should. The consumer is being short changed and paying for full price on the medications.
This is nothing and I mean NOTHING but Obama politics.
And I issue this warning. One of the US companies that has been under investigation for quality problems is MYLAN. Ironically the FDA in November approved them to manufacture and sell generic PREVACID. If your drug company sells you this brand --watch very carefully to see if it is working. If not, report it to the FDA. Stop this political nonsense where they are playing russian ruelette with our health.
Don't be afraid to report problems with drugs. Only we can change this diabolical farce.
rollingstone, you can't have socialism with out fascism, and vice versa, since the govt doesn't produce anything. It's all "collectivism". They always rely on the control of the means & ends of productive energy to meet their goals.
BSpotter, I don't know about all that fascist alliance stuff, I have a simple philosophy, "Socialist are full of crap."
rollinstone, that's exactly why I recommended Atlas Shrugged to Mike. In the book's vernacular, he has a looter's mentality, or should I say, sentimentality. He maintains a logical disconnect between a person's drive to "get theirs" and how things "get done" in a continuously-improvement manner. He willfully ignores the fascist alliances between govt & business to artificially float his collectivist ideals, which only bolsters that alliance.
I get a good chuckle out of that "I got mine" line of crap. It has that familar ring of "from each according to his ability and to each according to their needs."
"I got mine" like millions of others, it's called working for it. Anyone can do it just get an education or a skill, then find or create a job, save your money, stay sober, try to make wise decisions, work hard and good things will happen.
I'll admit it's getting tougher to do that. Excessive taxes on employers and taxes on employment make it difficult. Then their is excessive regulation, frivolous law suits, the threat of hyper inflation and a host of other liberal socialist crap.
Now they are attacking banking and business at every opportunity, no wonder we are not competitive anymore. Their answer is to pile on more regulation and taxes - how stupid can they be.
And finally if you are successful in this repressive climate you will be treated like a criminal - you will hear that familar snarl, "well you got yours where is mine?"
I'm not shilling for the type of rich you describe. I don't want them to have to lobby Congress for favors to be successful in creating jobs. This culture yields the corporatism that is destroying the middle class.
Lol,don't be an unpaid shill for the rich ,BSspotter,they have lobbyist and lawyers on retainer for that.
Anyway,got to go to Houston and if I don't get to post again before the New Year's , Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas to all.
Thanks again to those that continue to prove that we can be that we can disagree without being disagreeable or resorting to labels and insults.
I am what I am.
If we destroy the justly rich, who'll create our jobs? We need to eliminate the rampant fascism for any of us to survive.
BSspotterI'm sorry,"I've got mine" has never appealed to me.
I think the rich will survive no matter what we do, we will take care of the poor but continuing to lay the burden at the feet of the middle class,will be our undoing. CEO pay and and worker pay will continue to skyrocket in proportion of profits , jobs will continue to go overseas, wages will continue to be stagnant, and benefits will be a thing of the past because the corporation will do what it has to do to increase that bottom line.Sole concentration on the evil government will allow them to continue these practices.
I never said anyone owed me anything, what I did say is that I was appreciative for the contributions others have provided through their innovations.
The corporations practice extortion and exploration of the middle class every day. In fact I just heard someone at Fox News say that we can help this economy by lowering the minimum-wage. That's a winner; make the miserable, more miserable.
You are trying to promote your case on lies and exaggerations. I never said I enjoyed paying my fair share, others owed me and my political cohorts, and I was not taking a high ground position because I've been saying the same thing since I joined the forum (about five years ago). My coworkers used to say the same thing.
I know it's hard for you for you to accept an opposing position.
A theme that seems to consistently run through your postings is that private health insurance is BAD and government health insurance is GOOD.You may be interested in a recent report on health care expenditures from 1970 to 2007. It found that total health care expenditures during this period increased by 460%; Medicare and Medicaid expenditures increased 1000%. How anyone can look at this and argue for increased government involvement in providing health care is beyond me. It tells me that the LESS government is involved in health care, the better off we all are.
And the source of this horrible, invidious attack on socialized medicine? Fox News? No. Heritage Foundation? No. It comes from the National Health Expenditure Report compiled annually by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, an Executive Branch agency of the Federal Government. It appears that, try as he might, your beloved B. Hussein is unable to squelch truth telling in his own branch of the Federal Government.
... which reminds me, you should add "Atlas Shrugged" to your reading list.
Mike, it takes 2 villages -- one to produce & innovate and another to loot the producers.
exresidentTo quote Hillary Clinton" It takes a village." I realize that will not resonate well with the "I've got mine."
I feel rather fortunate living in this country, paying my fair share of taxes, and benefiting from the great innovation of others. I also realize that you will consider me naive and uninformed for harboring these feelings but I think I can live with that.
BSspotterI see where the United Kingdom is going to tax the financial markets that created their financial crisis but we will not ever consider that in the United States because the outcry will be" You never raise taxes in a recession." Look at the outcry over a pay czar restricting high bonuses to those that benefited from TARP.
Everyone gets favors from the government whether it be defense contractors,Wall Street,a politician,a welfare or entitlement recipient and even those that ride on the interstate highways that the government provided through taxation.
Mike, sorry, those posts were intended for Suzy & Holly.
No, I'm not thrilled. There's nothing "free-market" about govt handouts to insurance companies. Third-party payers are a major source of the problem -- whether it be insurance companies or govt agencies.
If someone gets rich through undue favors from the govt, they're not a capitalist, and they deserve to be taxed into oblivion.
I really think everyone wants less government, in fact Ronald Reagan ran on that platform but he actually grew government. President Reagan had his heart in the right place when he came up with the EITC (earned-income credit) but look at all the bureaucracy, mismanagement, and fraud that created. John Kennedy had the spaceflight program (NASA), now we're stuck with defunding or underfunding the program but our adversaries will take advantage of that. Some say that making Congress do the right thing is like herding cats.
I'm pretty glad that the government did not privatize our Social Security, because after the financial meltdown of September 2008, I can’t imagine what my wife and I would've done with our private portfolio and Social Security in the tank. I use Social Security as a supplement but many do not.
I guess I have a different outlook but I don't see the difference between a $100 health insurance premium increase and a $100 increase in my taxes. I guess I live a simpler life because I don't have any government intrusion in my life. I have been doing this same thing I have always done.
I guess my resentment is centered on the corporation's and others will target the government.All the bases are covered.
No apologies needed (but thanks) and thanks for sharing your outlook.
My apologies, Mike. I didn't have a clue that your were and an oldie but goodie. There is a lot of difference between anti-government and less government. Both parties are responsible for this spiral of debt that is starting to resemble a tornado. That is what the Tea Parties respesent. People like me, who can't understand how the government wasn't able to invest social security and medicare taxes so that the end results would pay for the security of the individuals after retirement. This health care reform will only produce another form of taxation. People like me, who are now mentally maxed out with government intrusion.
BSspotterYou don't suckle up to the Democrats or the Republicans but you do suckle up. You suckle up to a Laissez-Faire philosophy. Everything stems from that.
As I've told you before, health insurance is not a good product for the free market because how can you apply supply and demand principles for a heart attack? I believe the free market insurance industry will price itself out of business because nothing is being done for preventative care or changing our current lifestyles. That's the reason every industrial nation in the world has a socialist component, when it comes to health care.
We can post tit for tat all day long about the evils of government and the greedy corporations but it is a complete waste of time because we will continue to use slanted hypothetical s, examples, and stats to prove our point. Besides,I already know the Ron Paul script.
You said” Please try and convince me” but that's like using a post hole digger on a concrete slab. It's not going to happen. As for your sphincter surgery; speculation, negativity, and hyperbole will only raise your blood pressure; making it more difficult for your surgeon.
This Health Care Reform bill is an early Christmas present for the free market insurance companies; I thought you would be trilled….Oh, I forgot about those tax cuts on the rich..
Your most recent posts call for speculation because you don't leave a definitive position or statement.
I don't think anyone is always right. The pundits give an opinion; it's up to me to do my own research, if the issue matters that much.
According to newspaper accounts, about 400 attended the first Tea Bag event in Victoria, the second event only had about 200 people. Being from this city, I had come to the conclusion that the political makeup of this town is conservative or libertarian. I look at the exit polling results, the reelection of Ron Paul, and letters to the editor, my own experience, and the posts to this forum in making my conclusion. Having said that, the low turnouts tell me that the interest is not very high in this city. On the national front, the media will film the outrageous, interview the most outspoken, and will give a general rundown of the sponsors, so that is all I have to go on.
Sorry,I was wrong Hatch & Kennedy collaborated on the State Children's Health Insurance Program
The waste you described is being perpetrated by the free- market and the government is just cutting the check. In August I will be on Medicare but I'm already starting to receive pamphlets from the electric wheelchair companies, even though I certainly don't need one....About a couple months ago, 60 Minutes had a segment about a man who invoiced and received over $1 million in payments from Medicare, even though he never issued, services or equipment. All he had was a doctor client list. When it comes to budget cutting, Medicare investigators will be the first to go….
I have a similar story but mine emphasizes the high cost of Medicare in the last two months of recipient's life. About three years ago before my mother was put in hospice care, several doctors, agencies, and the hospital billed Medicare for various procedures, just because they could.
Sometimes I go too far in saying that the Republicans just don't care but I seem to forget that they are just human beings and a lot of this is just about politics. I remember a story about a prominent Republican senator sending his staffer (plausible deniability) with a note for the legislators that were working on Hillarycare, to please consider a provision to make insurance companies insure customers with pre- existing conditions because he had just lost his mother, who was not diagnosed in time because of lack of health insurance. A few years after Hillarycare failed miserably, Orin Hatch, a staunch Republican conservative, teamed up with the liberal lion, Ted Kennedy, to pass a socialist program, Medicaid.
I have never been for any of the health plans put forth by this congress they are massively out of control with these "ideas" and way to costly. We do need some type of reform but not this monster plan that will bankrupt us sooner rather than later.
we do need tort reform, free and open markets and more levels of coverage so even us poor people can afford at least some form of insurance.
And this one:http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/weblo...
Suzy & holly1,
I'm reposting my comment (7/16/09) from one of Mike's health care blogs:http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/weblo...
"I don’t suckle on the teat of either political party and am not persuaded or impressed by political pong. Can you explain in detail to folks like me who don’t have burdensome, objectivity-destroying allegiances how nationalized heath care will benefit America in the long term? Will we be healthier in 50 years because of it or in spite of it? Will it be more successful that other government ventures into health care? And please don’t overlook how our government fails at nearly EVERYTHING it ever does on a national scale. Please present other instances of how government intervention lowered the cost or improved the quality of a service or product. Also, take a moment to consider the ways government already intervenes in our health care system and ponder the impact.
I’ll get you started:- HMO Act of 1973 (created those horrible HMOs)- Non-negotiable Medicare prescription drug plan (maximum cost boondoggle!)- Medicare & Medicaid (10s of trillions in unfunded liabilities)
Now consider the culture our welfare system has created. Instead of being a safety net, it’s an inescapable black hole. Plus, the GAO projects Social Security to be a $40-50T liability. When will the experiment with my grandkids’ futures end?!
What’s keeping our current health care system from operating in and benefitting from a true free market, like for instance, the MP3 player, computer or cell phone markets? In most other free markets open to competition, prices go down and quality increases over time. (We haven’t had a true free market in decades, but there’s still enough competition to partially simulate market forces.)
Please try to convince me that central planning works, and leave out all the emotional talking points. Talk to me like I’m Murray Rothbard.
Oh, one more question: How long will I have to wait for surgery to repair the sphincters that have been annihilated by the taxman?"
...and I had to change her doctor 3 times to get one of them to order X-rays. Two doctors thought she just needed pain killers and relaxants and told her to go home and rest, but come back week after week for a pain shot. One doctor thought she needed physical therapy (charged to Medicare)...which made things worse.How much of this is going on with Medicare patients?
true, but leaving it like it is will waste so much more over time. It's staggering how many of my mom's tests were duplicated many times as she moved from one doctor to the other. So many different prescriptions to kill the pain, so many office calls. So many different doctors. Ex-rays over and over when one MRI would have found the problem immediately.
suzy the govt is the one doing all the wasting. I have no confidence that it can cut through the political red tape and save any money it's just not in the nature of the beast to be penny wise.
by cutting out the waste holly1. Going by my mothers experiences just recently with back surgery, there is more waste than anyone suspects, and that is just one case.
I would like to know how they expect to cut 500 billion from medicare and add millions of babyboomers to the roles. There is no way that will ever happen You can't cut a program then add millions of people to it and expect in all reality to save any money. You just can not make that add up no matter what fuzzy math you use.
Medicare has already been slashed to the bone the only place to cut spending is to get rid of stupid policies like renting a 500.00 piece of equipment for 24 months @ 150.00 a month. ($3600.00) spent on a 500.00 item before the item is owned by the patient and expect to cut costs.
THIS IS A COMMON PRACTICE OF MEDICARE Based on a family members experiance whom also is a retired director on nursing who worked in nursing homes for many years. This type of waste is rampant in the system. It spends way more on most equipment by renting it first before buying it out right. So on a lot of equipment the amount medicare pays is many times what the real cost is. Their reason for this is a patient might die before the cost of equipment is reached if it were not rented first. This logic of spending thousands to maybe save a buck it typical of how government runs things.
another source of major waste is the destruction of perfectly good medications because there is no way at this time to recover and redispense them. A lot of meds in control of nursing homes are destroyed when a med is changed or dosage is changed or if a patient dies thus wasting a huge amount of meds that have already been bought and paid for with tax dollars.
This is just the tip of the iceburg there are many more examples of waste and fraudulant billing and un-needed treatments to protect against lawsuits all built into the system. This is the result of the government running the show.
So how can we expect or trust them to do any better with the new bill that will spend 1 trillion a year on health care. It is the government that has created this problem they are not the answer to it.
I can't include all the facts and links with each item I mentioned, the VicAd does'nt allow that much space for a comment/facts : ) I have usually researched and confirmed what I say....You may not agree with my conclusions with Obama's relationships, mentorships like:
ties to Sal Alinsky principles and community organizing, Odinga http://africanpress.wordpress.com/200... his relationship with Rashid Khalidi Relationships with Rezko, Auchi, and Saddam Hussein --Obama did nothing wrong but again he is associated with people with questionable ethics. Obama and Reverand Wright I'll avoid theology here.Obama and Ayers (a member of the Underground Weathermen who planted bombsIf you didn't know it, Obama has been involved with Ayers for 20 years.
As president, I have not seen him rise above as a leader and change his moral compass-IMHO. He has kept his relationships with ACORN and SEICU (SP?) as well as others as I said in czar positions and behind the scenes as consultants. He only cut people that the public did not like even though he chose them --again a revelation of who he really is.
I believe the man has a lot of relationship debts he needs to payoff and those may or maynot be in the interest of the nation. Based on his associations I see results that confirm the changes in government structures and peoples rights. Where it will stop is anyone's guess. Will anyone stand up or let it slide. This is what I keep seeing embedded in the stimulus bills --hidden deep and the health care. Actions that will decrease care to people, actions that could conceavable lead to the the quick demise of the sick and elderly with out the right meds or care.
Ah,if it weren't for sarcasm, you would have very little to say.
Gosh Mike, thanks for this, " I trust the federal court system and the city of New York to carry out the trial and punishment of the terrorist. They are not in uncharted waters."
I feel much better knowing there are brave souls like you still around. It's no small comfort to me and I'm sure it's a comfort to the people in New York City who will have to deal with the terrorists threats - truck and subway bombs, hyjacked airplanes, stuff like that. Thanks again for setting me/us straight - your courage is admirable and a fine example to our nation and I'm just not saying that!!!
BSspotterA couple of years ago I told a poster that if an independent candidate took office, it would not be long before there were tempted with lobbyist money like my party of choice is now.
I don't disagree with your statement except for your last sentence.In fact I like your viewpoint better than the pundits..Not that it matters.
Fox News(Roger Ailes) did not want Ron Paul to get the Republican nomination during the primaries...Fox News will promote the anti-Obama Tea Party of today for their self-interest.
During the primaries the staunch Republicans came out in defiance of Ron Paul words when he said " our intervention in the Middle East led to blowback." I came on several times in this forum rebuking those that took his words out of context and the GOP candidates that disgracefully mocked him during the debates.. I remember him getting very little air time....like I continue saying,I respect and like Ron Paul but I normally agree with just 20 minutes of one of his 30 minute speeches,then he goes into la la land ,for me.
I remember, BSspotter - what cowards they were to treat him that way! That is why I refuse to watch anything FOX!
Mike: "...political pundits compare the movement to the Ron Paul Revolution... Fox News is the only network that supports the movement"
Therein lies the problem. The RP Revolution stands for something tangible and is worthy of holding Tea Parties. The latest TP incarnations are mockeries of the original Tea Party and simply attempt to harness the backlash from the Obama administration. Sure, the TPers are angry, but most are selectively applying libertarian principles because it's convenient. They'll forget those principles once they get "their man" in office.
By the way, do you recall the way Fox News treated Ron Paul during the 2008 Presidential campaign?
blue_marble - TO ME, you are on the right track with everything you speak of.
No one wants their children or grandchildren to go through any undue hardships but I was not satisfied with the status quo... Believe it or not, I am one of the" We the people" the right ideas and solutions are not embedded in one political party or ideology.
Have a good one
That is the first time I have been called conspiratorial...to me that comment is more flippant and not thought provoking at all.
1. I called Medicare myself. The fact that they recommend AARP is true. After they did it, I called a US congressman. The office confirmed what the Medicare office is doing at this time. So this a fact not a conspiratorial rumor.
2. After Obama met with the large pharmas, the FDA closed the companys that were manufacturing natural thyroid medications and also closed the companies selling the medications. The FDA has just ordered some more companies to close. Perhaps you should keep closer touch with what the FDA is doing in relationship to the large Pharmas and the health care bill, again not conspiratorial. Facts on the FDA website.
2. Within the stimulus, it created a committee and funded it. It will be reviewing and considering health care. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services today announced the members of the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research. Authorized by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA), the new Council will help coordinate research and guide investments in comparative effectiveness research funded by the Recovery Act. This committee has already made recommendations that have been put into action including canceling government funding for patients under certain programs. The funding cuts started October. This is fact, not fiction. Not conspiratorial but Obama's regime is condoning it. People in the programs have been told to try getting medicaid. Many do not qualify.
3. The group received 48.8 Billion yes BILLION dollars to build the National Electronic Records Center where all electronic records will be received from service providers in the US. That is why service providers have until 2013 to have electronic records. The center must be up by 2014. The guise for the government receiving your medical records and analyzing --research for drugs and diseases. Name me one good thing the government has done with private information. Now they will know about your hemrrhoids, sore throat, spousal abuse injuries, every little medical secret we have --the government will have access to. Fact not fiction Mike. 48.8 Billion dollars to make sure it happens.
I will continue with more separately
Mike - I will agree with you on the part about Ron Paul. You are right and in that regard I stand corrected. As I am a HUGE Ron Paul supporter. And I must say he is the REVOLUTION we all NEEDED! Sadly, most did not listen...but, that is another story I suppose!
I just don't want my kid's and their kid's to be paying for all these current mistakes and future potential mistakes that are happening right under our noses. This has to stop! "WE THE PEOPLE" must make it STOP!
BSspotter may be right but the political pundits compare the movement to the Ron Paul Revolution. Ron Paul is a libertarian/Republican. There's nothing wrong with being a libertarian, I believe every political party has a component of libertarianism. Fox News is the only network that supports the movement, in fact they sent out their big guns to the first event. The other big support is Freedom Works, a lobbyist group….Those are just the facts.
Am aware of some of the medical care and research the Cleveland Clinic has provided. I can say this for some pediatric care --because of cuts in fund in some specialties --patients cannot get the doctors, diagnosis, and treatment---in fact I know of three families that have moved to Houston to go to Drs at Texas Childrens.
Just yesterday on news doctors were interviewed. Apparently the payments for treatment and other things are being CUT by medicare. Many doctors will be stopping treatment of medicare patients, limit their treatment to current medicare patients and take no new ones on, and medicare patients will have a difficult time locating medical care.
This happened approximately between 1998 and 2000 with prices were cut. I remember one of my employee's mothers problems. Her key doctor quit accepting medicare. She did have health problems and because of the payment issues --it took her quite a while to find a new doctor. She had been with her other doctor for years.
The doctors interviewed stated basically with the price cuts they can no longer keep their "business open" on medicare payments. Remember most doctors are a small business owner. So here is another example of the SBO getting screwed.
And what about people on Medicare? Do you have secondary gap insurance that will pay? If you don't maybe you should consider it. I don't know. But maybe we should call our doctors and ask what they will be doing before the deadline for getting secondary coverage....
blue-marbleI appreciate your comments but they're more conspiratorial than actual fact. After the election I vowed not to engage in the silliness anymore
Reading all the comments brings to home the phone call I had with my grandson, yesterday.
He's a corpsman in the Navy Reserves. But that was not the call subject. He was applying for a job online and encountered his first employer designed survey to determine if the applicant is trustworthy, potential for stealing, and overall ethics.
He called to discuss some of the questions as he went along, He was wondering about his ethics he was forming and also needed to learn how to interpret some statements because of word choice.
The exercise was a great experience for both of us. I seriously thought about my own ethical base as he revealed his. I was quite proud of his foundation and compass.
Mike your question of what am I missing? Because each of us have our own experiences, we do reach different conclusions.
When Obama won, I stated I would give his administration a chance. Sadly, the ethical concerns that I had are emerging. From maintaining the relationships with bombers and people who want to destroy capitalism (based on their books, giving some Czar positions), to turning a blind eye to small business people (and think how many small businesses there are in Victoria), taking our tax money and giving it to unions, giving unions more breaks; lying about rationing care--there already is a committee making decisions to ration care. The FDA is demanding certain drug companys' close. Medicare will already tell you the lowest priced RX provider is AARP --Obama is a personal friend with the president of AARP. The bill will give AARP special funding and rights.
And gitmo --he is moving it to his home state (really surprised?) ask yourself who is really getting the money in all that?
What are we missing? A great leader who really makes decisions that are GOOD FOR US AND OUR COUNTRY instead of man that is possibly being controlled and led. People in congress that will make good decisions for the US and its people.
We need to make sure we are not "just settling" because we are so frustrated that we give up our own ethics and moral compass --and say let it pass we will just fix it later while we know in our heart there has never been any government bill that once passed has ever been fixed "right". They just keep hanging on more krap on the bill.
I must make sure I don't miss the target for saving the future with my vote; I must truly research each group to determine their path --what are the ethics and moral platform--that drives whether we survive or don't -IMHO
You stirred me today Mike --thank you
I must agree with BSspotter- I myself don't consider the Tea Party movement as part of libertarianism. And Suzy- I must agree with you on the point you made in regards to the health insurance. It's going to be a scary time for all if this horrible bill passes. Those who have decent ins will pay more for those who do not, in turn those who had good ins wont be able to afford their own anymore and will be forced onto a government program or pay a fine and go w/o....I would rather roll the dice too!
Rollingstone, in a country of over 300 million people have yet given any thought that someone might not share your opinion or your fears? Bush is not that far removed (11 months), so his blunders (Iraq) are still very much a factor that will not be swept under the rug.
I think it's rather stupid for the macho Republicans to be that scared of the detainees in Guantánamo to be tried in the America's court system or imprisoned at our secure federal prisons. I have always agreed with President Bush, Colin Powell, Robert Gates and others that Guantánamo Bay should be closed. I trust the federal court system and the city of New York to carry out the trial and punishment of the terrorist. They are not in uncharted waters.
You’re using talking points again because the actual financial figures showed that the private sector jobs are improving because only 11,000 were lost in November. 86,000 jobs were created in the business and professional service jobs; up 126% from the previous month. There is a long way to go but unless we convince the banks that were at that were issued TARP to lend to small businesses then we won’t all be in this together.
SuzyI hate to sound argumentative but I think we can achieve both; simultaneously.
The Cleveland and Mayo Clinic and a few others have modeled themselves on the things you mentioned. They pay their doctors a fee for performance, consolidate expensive machines, remove duplication of tests, have a set rate for medical procedures but they were not talked about because they don't have expensive lobbyists.
We can do it but today is more fashionable to just say no and continue with the status quo.
Mike, Bush is gone, yeah he screwed up while he was here, but now Obama is in a whole different league. He is not the change most were expecting.
Astronomical deficits, bills being written that no one reads, passed in the middle of the night, thousands of pages of new regulations, massive expansion of the federal bureauacracy, a jobs program that has only created government jobs, bringing a international terrorist gang that blew up New York back to the city for a show trial, just to name a few.
There are other stupid things but I'm getting tired.
CoolgrannyFirst of all I am 64 years old, hardly a young man.
Robert Novak famously said "Always love your country but never trust your government.” He went on to say that it is an American tradition to distrust the government. Some parties, movements, and individuals are more anti-government than others but in no way ,does it reflect their patriotism because as Robert Novak stated, country and government are two different things.
I don't believe any particular party really cares about grandchildren or any other sound bites. i.e.The previous administration engaged in two wars (one ,a war of choice) and cut taxes to the wealthy (twice) and imposed a Medicare prescription drug bill ,that was put on the credit card.
Saying both guards should be changed while only criticizing one is a little bit disingenuous..IMO
BTW, I have never, nor will I ever, question one's patriotism.
WaywardwindYou are misquoting me…. I just posted that the only way to ensure that insurance premiums will come down is by competition. I also stated that this bill does not contain any measures that include competition. I also stated that with the current makeup of this Congress, lobbyists will not allow any bill that has a public option or any other mechanism, such as a trigger, to be included. I provided a website for verification.
The bigger picture I look at, is to allow 30 million more customers and all the new preventative care the customers would get. Initially, it would be more expensive but the preventative medicine would gradually take hold. I agree the insurance companies would continue to find ways to increase premiums because that is the nature of the game but maybe we would get finance reform in place. Nah, I'm starting to daydream.
You will never get the insurancee costs down until you get the cost of drugs, medical procedures, hospital costs, doctors costs, etc. down. One has to come before they other. If you can do that, the other will take care of itself.Remember back when hospitals and doctors offices were striclty about treating the sick? They didn't need fancy hospitals, or doctors offices, or the hundreds of other unnecessary things that add to the cost of healthcare. Good gosh, some of those bigger medical clinics ands hospitals look like 5-star hotels. It's all unnecessary.
Lol, Rollingstone, your party drove the bus into the ditch and not you want to get off.
I've heard all the talking points of those that shill for the insurance companies and other corporations but the fact is the insurance companies are just below the used car salesman in credibility and distrust.
There is a way to prevent a stalking horse….. You back up a political party that is beholden to the corporations and lobbyists like the ones out in front trying to derail any kind of health care reform. Joe Lieberman and his wife come to mind but many others can be exposed on open secret.com.
I never mention excessive profits but the goals of for-profit insurance industries are well known.
Better watch who you are calling anti-government, Mike. This Tea Partier is probably one of the most conservative, patriotic people you could ever meet. When government causes its people to suffer, it is just time to reel in the government. Sometimes both old guards need to be changed. Hopefully, we will see an interesting 2010 and 2012. I am pro-country young man and sometimes that means less government control. I would really hate to be part of a movement which curses our chidren with taxes that will never go away.
Mike..."The bill in its current form is not perfect but if it allows 31 million more Americans to have some kind of health care insurance, portability, does not allow the insurance company to reject for preconditions, does not increase the deficit, and bends the cost curve ; then it will be an accomplishment 10 previous presidents had failed to do."
Yeah, I'd like to see people have health insurance and I think it should be illegal for an insurance company to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions -- if they aren't going to insure people they should be in a different business. Where I disagree with you is the idea that premiums will be coming down since tens of millions new people will allow the costs to be spread among a larger base. I believe that what's going to happen is that the insurance companies will have millions of new customers -- whether voluntary or compelled and that larger revenue base will simply INCREASE the bottom lines of the insurance companies. I don't think for one minute that anyone's premiums will be reduced because the pool of insured is larger. The insurance industry profits will increase thanks to the federal government forcing more people to buy policies. Of course, by way of gratitude, the companies will kick back milliions to the congress critters who pass the bill in the form of "campaign contributions."
SuzyA health care bill that would force competition on the insurance companies, is the only practical way of bringing down premiums. The for-profit insurance companies will not hesitate to ration care, raise prices, or drop the insured to please their shareholders.
Right now we don't have a bill that will force competition on the insurance companies because the lobbyist won't allow it. The current makeup of Congress will not allow it.
I think that preventive care will eventually drive down costs. The people that go to the free clinics and hospitals will treated for the disease but it may be too late by then. I can’t imagine where I would be without a wellness program, where I get regular blood tests, eye exams, and the initial steps in preventing heart disease and other complications from diabetes.
The bill before Congress right now is just a "stalking horse" for the public option and then ultimately universal healthcare - everyone knows that.
In addition excessive insurance company profits is just a liberal talking point - no it's actually a lie. Aetna's profit margin for the last quarter was 3.75 percent. It's "medical benefit ratio" was about 85 percent. This is the ratio of medical costs paid out to premiums taken in.
Costs are going up and this is driving premiums up. They are going up because the government is interfering with the law of supply and demand - there's no better way to get things screwed up.
And finally Obama's ratings are going down because people have come to realize that he is driving the bus over a cliff and now everyone wants off - including me.
BSspotterI did not mention Glenn Beck but the Tea Party movement is neither Republican nor Democrat but leans more toward the libertarianism (anti-government). It’s a known fact amongst renowned posters like Charlie Cook and Chuck Todd. The signs at their rallies tell the story of a disenfranchised group. In fact, it's a takeoff of the Ron Paul movement.
The NBC/Wall Street Journal poll indicated that 76% of Fox News viewers approved of the Tea Party Movement. Your argument is with the pollsters but they do the actual calling nationwide and their reputation depends on their accuracy.
The Tea Party Movement has been known to back up secessionists like Debra Medina and others that have pointed to the United States flag with threats of removing it and replacing with the Texas flag.
I'll tell you one thing. People who cannot afford to pay the price for insurance will just pay the fine and it will do nothing to help the cause. I would be one of those if I didn't already have a good insurance, but that insurance my be taxed to the hilt. If my husbands company insurance ever goes away, I guess I'll just go without until retirement age. I'll roll the dice, go to free clinics, free hospitals, etc. and generally clog up the system. I will not go in debt being forced to buy insurance that I cannot afford. I would choose to die before that.
I hear you Shadow, but I am disenchanted with the Democrats because they lack the backbone to do what 69 million Americans wanted them to do. I do agree that the partisan food fights are not productive and the 22% congressional approval is warranted.
I have to disagree with you a little bit because this financial collapse happened on a Republican watch (although both parties are responsible) and it was the Bush administration that initiated TARP and the auto bailouts but I thought it was the right thing to do. Granted, the Obama administration expanded the spending but 11 months of policies due not necessarily reflect financial doom for our grandchildren.
Points taken, Suzy, but until the CBO actually scores it, can we really know if it will bring down costs? Right now those costs are about $2.6 trillion annually and climbing; continuing to cripple our trade deficits, the small business bottom line, and is the primary reason we are losing about 45,000 Americans each year, due to lack of health care insurance.
I know I'm in the minority when I say this but I think we should pass an imperfect bill and improve on it as we go along. If the Democrats do not pass a health care bill after six months of fighting, they will lose at the ballot box and we all know the Republicans will not bring up this issue again.
I think the insurance companies are going to charge more, regardless. Early in December, Aetna announced that it would be raising prices on their consumers in 2010. Aetna predicted that it would lose between 300,000 and 350,000 members next year from its national account as well as another 300,000 from smaller group accounts, 600, 000 total. I know they will try to get around that precondition clause.
Every health care bill that's been before Congress this year has been Health Insurance Company friendly because of the ties to lobbyists.
Mike, I am, at this point, completely disenchanted with the Democratic Party, and mind you for many years I considered myself a Democrat. The problem though is, that I am also thoroughly disenchanted with the Republican Party. Neither party seems to have the best interest of the country at heart. If the Republicans are for something the Democrats are against it and vice-versa, regardless of what it may be. For me though, it all comes down to the fact that the Republicans are not spending me, my children and their children into the poorhouse.
Productive jobs are created by private industry, NOT government. If you consider that government cannot give anything to anyone that it has not first taken from someone else, it quickly becomes obvious that government can, by its actions, destroy jobs by taking from the productive and rewarding the unproductive. This government, with expenditures spiraling upward and deficits spiraling out of control, is doing an excellent job of proving that point. In the immortal words of Winston Churchill, "A government trying to spend its way into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself by the handle."
I don't equate the Tea Party movement with libertarianism. This myth has been perpetuated by establishment goons & hacks like Glenn Beck, who claims to be libertarian but is a phony trying to corral dissent for his handlers. There is nothing libertarian about our interventionist foreign policy, which Beck and the majority of Tea Partiers support with flags in hand. The libertarian message has been hijacked by this repackaged neo-conservatism.
This is how the establishment squashes peaceful rebellion -- realigning the meanings of words and creating & controlling their own opposition. Beck has duped otherwise-rebellious people into following his establishment-approved message. When the time comes, he'll delivery them to the polls to choose a hand-picked establishment candidate that will only appear to defend their deep-seated limit-govt principles... the ol' bait-n-switch.
(I'm not suggesting Beck is completely wrong -- just that he doesn't believe in what he's saying. He's correct about most things, but he's just a brightly-lit bug zapper and the bugs are heading his way to meet their fates. Do you really think Fox News would air the leader of a potential revolution... of ideas or guns?? Come on, folks!)
Mike, I'm going to have to disagree on whether the healthcare bill, as it is right now, will help, because it looks like it will do more harm than good.I don't like the fact that everyone will have to get insurance, but the cost issues are not addressed. This just gives the insurance companies what they want, more customers, and still can charge 300x for older, or sick members? Maybe everyone will be eligible, but who is going to be able to afford it?
I think everyone is pro-country but ideological differences will lead us down different paths to achieve that goal. Some believe in a top-down economic strategy; others in a bottom-up. A case can be made for either.
Globalization is here to stay and we have been in it for quite a long time because the alternative is protectionism. We do not have an choice; since the Internet has shrunk the globe.
I think you're correct, when the majority of people get back to work, our petty differences will not be as important.
I think I am more pro country than anti government. I want the best for all of us. Government should be evolved from easy street and returned to main street. I personally am tired of globalization and would like to go and do something else for a while. I am an independant and extremely conservative in my thinking. I am also interested in attending a tea party. I am tired of working hard and having to give most of it away. I also think times in the good ol' USA were alot more fun when everybody had a living wage job and a little money in their pocket to spend.