• I see the DailyKos and HuffingtonPost of the VA are alive and well. The fax machines, emails and twitters of all the talking points are smoking out. Tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth, especially if the mainstream media is in on it.

    The book is not obscure as talking points from the left want to say. Documented. As is "The Cage" from 1940 to 48. Run by the wildman Scotland.

    All your cohearts can say is shut up, shut up. Sounds familiar, used for centuries. Shut up Chrisitan, shut up Irishman, shut up Italian, shut up Chinaman, shut up Jew bait, shut up boy, now shut up conservative.....and Christians again. Coming from the "big tent DNC" left...hhmmm. You have to be approved first so shut up.

    And please, using BathTub boy Keith and PMSNBC, not credible sources. They are extreme left wingnuts propagandist. And call Fox not fair. OReilly has the guts to have people on he doesn't agree with, bathtubboy won't. Like the truth about ACORN. The Times? Soldier killers.

    And lastly, I won't argue with this unreasonble post.
    Just some need to go see a mental proffessional. Soon. Get help with your out of control BDS and R. Bush Derrangement Syndrome and Rage. It is an out of control epidemic and irrational. Don't wait for the Nobama Health Care Socialist System. The waiting line will be too long and the taxes will be too high for you to have enough money.

    Don't be haters, I am not. I just believe in truth. It will set you free. I have changed more than one mind at work about what's going on.

    See ya at the next Tea Party. (Nah, too much truth told)
    I told you so. Out from here.

    May 14, 2009 at 9:50 a.m.

  • I think Olbermann has intentionally obfuscated this torture issue in order to keep up the bashing of Bush - beating a dead horse gives him obvious pleasure. But he deliberately narrows the context of the argument to argue whether or not Churchill condone torture. But the broader issue is whether the Geneva Convention was violated by torture or the bombing of innocent civilians - both are a war crime.

    He also errors when he said the Germans bombed British Cities first. Hitler specifically forbid this. Some bombs accidentally did fall on London. The British retaliated and intentionally bombed Berlin - they did it first.

    Secondly he said that the Allies did not bomb German cities until years later - wrong again. Hamburg Germany was firebombed in July of 1943. It killed about 60,000 civilians and made about one million homeless. But from the beginning the British bombed German targets at night killing thousands of civilians.

    Olbermann said that Churchill protested the firebombing of Dresden. Well he did but that was a little late since Dresen was the very last heavy bombing raid on Germany. There was nothing left to bomb - all they could do was make the rubble bounce.

    And I got a good chuckle watching him talk around the use of non-lethal poisonous gas. Isn't that an oxymoron? The gas Churchill proposed using would have been non lethal if the victims received "constant medical attention" - what a joke.

    Churchill had good reason not to condone torture - he didn't need to torture to get intelligence. The British had cracked the German Enigma codes and knew far more than anyone captured in the field. In fact they did not want anyone questioning prisoners because of fear they would tip their hand about how much they knew.

    But again the broader questions is did the British use torture and the answer is yes particularly against the IRA and other terrorist organizations and they used it in Iraq. So if we are going to drag out all this dirty laundry, let's drag it all out. Why just pillory Bush unless, oh yeah now I get it.

    May 13, 2009 at 12:42 p.m.

  • tafoer
    Thanks for the cut and paste, I appreciate that.

    When I think of a propagandist; Tokyo Rose, Baghdad Bob, and Joe McCarthy come to mind because they knew they were lying and their objective was to deceive. I’m always leery of some one that starts a sentence with “in all due respect” then begin their hatchet job. Bill O’Reilly revises history to suit his opinion all the time, so he deserves the propagandist label.

    I have been watching Keith Olbermann for several years and I have never known him to rewrite history in order to bash President George W. Bush. The sources he quoted came from the public record. Keith admits he is a bias liberal and that is a reason MSNBC will only use him as a commentator not a journalist.

    Christopher Hitchens quotes from an obscure German book that details some of Churchill’s torture programs much like the source Bill O’Reilly used; neither has ever been accepted as fact.

    I am not that naïve; I know torture has been used by every country and every war known to man. Our country probably tortured NVAs and POWs but we buried out mistakes. We did not document the torture or write memos, to legalize it, then go on a road show promoting our misdeeds.

    I think Dick Cheney is trying to persuade a potential jury in the same way ex- Governor Blagojevich did. That it just my unsubstantiated opinion, so t is not propaganda.

    May 13, 2009 at 10:24 a.m.

  • Fox news is not a reliable source for fair and balanced news. They would like you to think that though. And why is Cheney being so vocal now that he is out of office? I guess he can't get anyone to go hunting with him.

    May 13, 2009 at 10:11 a.m.

  • Transcript from the Factor

    O'REILLY: Just one problem with that answer, Mr. President, with all due respect here. I'm not trying to nitpick. The British government uses very, very rough techniques on captured terrorists. Ask the IRA. And the SAS is an extremely feared force all over the world. Now, I don't want to Monday morning quarterback, but maybe Britain was not the best example there.


    Since then, "The Factor" has been investigating Winston Churchill's position on waging war and interrogating the enemy. Aided by Boston University History Professor Cathal Nolan, we have found out the following:

    • Churchill wanted to use poison gas on the Germans in violation of the Geneva Convention but was stopped by the British War Cabinet.

    • The Royal Air Force killed hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of civilians by targeting non-military sites.

    • And the British operated a number of interrogation centers during and after World War II, including one called the London Cage, where German prisoners were beaten, deprived of sleep and threatened with death.

    Olbermann is not a propagandist for the left? Be fair now!

    May 12, 2009 at 8:53 p.m.

  • Just a hardcore news junkie :-)

    May 12, 2009 at 5:02 p.m.

  • Thanks alot.Goliadchica.....Beware when I get as sharp as you..:-)

    May 12, 2009 at 4:40 p.m.

  • Here ya go Mike.

    May 12, 2009 at 4:37 p.m.

  • When CBS News Bob Schieffer asked former VP Dick Cheney, if Bush knew we were using torture, Cheney said “I guess he did; he signed off on them”..Kind of makes you wonder who was running the show…He probably thought “So.”

    Mr. Cheney said torture might have saved thousands maybe millions of lives, then why did he have the CIA destroy 92 tapes after the federal judge ordered them to not to. Of course the judge thought they only had three tapes.

    I heard about five lawyers say that you cannot issue memos to override or stipulate a rule of law.

    May 12, 2009 at 4:26 p.m.

  • I wonder if Liz Cheney would be saying these things about torture if dear old dad would've served in Vietnam (like he should have) and had been captured and tortured ala McCain.

    May 12, 2009 at 4:06 p.m.