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I stand by my guarantee that the economy will recover. Cause to not would result in mad-maxesque post-apocolyptic world.
BTW, I too see the economy making a turn in 3-4 months. I came to that conclusion on my very own last September, as were many of the pragmatic economists.
JohnnyI never called it a fault; just an observation…As I always says “In politics’ perception is everything”
I have a good feeling the economy will recover and about three months ago I said that people will spin the results to their own ideological results. Guaranteeing a recovery is foolish because of all the variables and especially since this is a world crisis…We can recovery all we want but someone has to buy the exports…G20 Summit funded the IMF.
With just sheer numbers on a up or down vote in the house,the Dems can put any bill through the house and on to the senate…The reconciliation process will try to be avoided and Chairman Max Baucus because he thinks he will have enough republicans on board…..I love parliamentary procedure, it is a great exercise in democracy…My party has been on both sides…Elections have consequences..The GOP got wiped out both times for a reason.
BTW the senate can pass the Health Care Reform bill using the reconciliation process that but they must go through several steps to get funding and then pass several other phases of the bill.
Its not my fault that what seems logical and has been economically proven appears to be more in line with conservatives (not specifically the right). Seems perfectly cohesive considering the wealth of economic and business interests who side on the right.
I can guarantee you this, the economy will recover.
I can also guarantee you this, it would of recovered without a "stimulus". Whether or not the stimulus hastened a recovery, that's the debate.
Also, it is guaranteed, whether or not the stimulus has helped, the Democrats will be falsely crowing that it was the cure, when in fact, at best it was a b-12 shot.
"...but the Dems have the numbers to jam anything through... and the senate still remains a problem for them..."
Protocol rule, in this case, its called "reconciliation protection". Stop ignoring this. How many times must I repeat myself?
"...a reason single-payer is not getting a seat at the table in the Health Care Cost reform bill."
Correct that it was Conservative minded Democrats, aka due to opposition within the Democratic Party, that kept single-payer off the table.
False in assuming there will be debate or the ability to muster any filibuster in the Senate. For you see, one of the primary riders Pelosi attached to the House version is the protocol rule of reconciliation protection. I made a quick net-check and found this link which explains in detail what I am saying:
"The president displayed his inner steel last Thursday when he told Republicans that he will not let them use a filibuster to veto his health care proposal. The threat of a filibuster had hung over the administration’s health care initiative until last week, when President Obama persuaded Senate Democrats to follow the House and include “reconciliation protection” for health care in the budget bill. This means that Republicans cannot block reform by reading the phone book---and Democrats need only a simple majority (50 votes ) to pass health care reform in the Senate".
http://takingnote.tcf.org/2009/04/hea... Regardless or not of your political persuasion, or your support for legislation in process, such protocol rules like reconciliation protection are nothing but trouble. Its a lot like the problem with torture... you use it today, tomorrow your enemies.
JohnnyYou do realize that all of your posts favor the right.
We can argue “stimulus policy” until we are blue in the face, you have your opinion and I have mine but in about four months we will see. I think the stock market has already bottomed out, oil prices are rising, so demand is up, we all know that unemployment will always be the last to come around and housing is still a major problem…The economy is not getting worse, that a good sign for now.
You can hate Pelosi all you want but the Dems have the numbers to jam anything through even with the blue dogs (45 conservatives) and the senate still remains a problem for them. Even after Franken is seated the current Dems are not party line voters….They have a lot of conservatives (about 17) and a reason single-payer is not getting a seat at the table in the Health Care Cost reform bill.
You cannot distinguish my "GOP talking points" because I do not carry any. I am an Independent, all the way. I logically look at each position individually, and try to measure its impact in a big picture sort of way. I am not an idealogue. It has been my experience that many who are hard core party line types are such simply due to a general lack of intelligence and/or ignorance, present company excluded.
1) A direct response to your statement: "Are you saying when the GOP controlled all three branches ,they brought everyone to the table?" Point being, neither the GOP, or any other party, has controlled all 3 branches in the modern era.
2) Its a fact, 40% do not pay FIT. Reintroducing tax revenue into the system does not increase the Treasury (via increased taxes). In fact, by definition decreases the Treasury coffers and it can only decrease investment into infrastructure (which typically is the platform for economic expansion, ie: before business can invest in capacity, the infrastructure must be present first). The ultimate goal of any "stimulus" is to increase monetary circulation, not build wealth. It is unproven as to whether increased monetary circulation will encourage business to invest in capacity building (aka economic expansion) in areas where infrastructure already exists.
I fully understand the stimulus is intented to be nothing more than a "kickstart", but the economics behind such theory are very very suspect.
3) The protocol rule (aka gag rule) eliminates the ability to filibuster in the Senate. It can be attached to any legislation in any chamber by a simple majority vote. Right now, there are several Pelosi forced pieces of legislation that have a protocol rule attached. In other words, a simple majority vote in the House has essentially superceded the legislative rules (namely, 60 vote closure) of the Senate. Which, btw, were established in effort to ensure discussion and compromise. As I said, its an old trick, and the user of it has historically always paid hard in the end.
4, really, a continuation of 3) "You cannot single out Pelosi because Newt Ginrich, Dennis Hastert, and John Boehner did they very same thing.." I believe I stated: "Republicans were guilty of something similar in the 90's, and paid for it dearly as such type behavior eventually cost them legislative control."
Point being, the safeguards the founding fathers provided us via the Senate are being superceded by riders to House legislation attached by Pelosi and her, for lack of a better term, politico thugs.
For Pelosi, the torture thing is a diversion. She was not ignorant of the situation, she is now, and always has been way way too involved (not involved in torture, but meaning keeps her ear to the tracks) for that to ring true.
Pelosi is out for blood. She has become so consumed with political retribution that she is cupable in pushing legislation that is ill-thought out, been raped of debate and compromise, and may very well cause our economic system long term irreparable harm.
And speaking of "Orange Man" Boehner:
JohnnyIt’s hard to distinguish your “GOP talking points” from your questions and logic. I will respectfully tell you why.
1. I never said a single party controlled the Supreme Court but history tells that that both parties have tried to stack the bench. That goal is still alive…If Obama is fortunate enough to nominate 3 SC judges..I hardly doubt they will be conservative, vice versa for a GOP president.2.40% is a talking point…Like FDR, the Obama team was anticipating a deep depression, and FDR and LBJ already had programs in place to take of those who would be hit the hardest, unemployment, food stamps etc, so they followed the model…..Secure the bottom. You might disagree with those policies but giving out $1 in food stamps returns $1.74 to the Treasury in tax revenues. It puts the money in circulation to the poor, out to the stores; back to the IRS.I cannot justify “stimulus economics in a short answer.”…
3. The house will always be a partisan food fight and the founders knew that, so the senate has a filibuster rule so cooler heads can prevail.4. You cannot single out Pelosi because Newt Ginrich, Dennis Hastert, and John Boehner did they very same thing.. The house is meant to be partisan…The adults are in the senate…The cordial 100 always sort things out.
The pinnacle of the Judiciary is the Supreme Court. I do not believe that the modern era of the US has the Supreme Court been controlled by one party. Note, I say "modern era", because I suspect that the eras around the civil war and/or FDR may of been anomolous due to one party having long held executive and legislative periods. Only made a cursory attempt to research, so don't know for a fact, just covering my rear.
There is nothing subjective about the US taxpayer being on the hook to pay off the cost of the stimulus package and other legislation Pelosi is preventing open discussion and debate upon. Your original correction was on target, meaning it is incorrect to say "average American", when 40% of Americans, likely those individually benefiting the most from the stimulus, do not pay taxes at all.
"The minority has the 60 vote closure."
Not exactly. That refers to the Senate only. However, there is a measure called a protocol rule (aka gag rule), which when attached to legislation by a simple majority vote, it prohibits minority debate or discussion of a particular issue. It essentially overrides the closure rules, but in both chambers. Pelosi and cohorts have already attached it to several pieces of legislation.
Republicans were guilty of something similar in the 90's, and paid for it dearly as such type behavior eventually cost them legislative control. But regardless, it is, in my mind, an unconstitutional measure in that its sole purpose is to undermine and supercede legislative rights.
Regardless, Pelosi is a prime example of what is wrong in the legislature. That is not to say she has malicious intent towards the American populace. But it is to say that her ego and drive for political retribution is preventing her from hearing what concerns the American people have, which are funneled up to their (our) respective Congressmen/women. Otherwise, she would leave the doors open for debate and compromise.
Mike I always get a chuckle when you write this same old drivel over and over, "Trickle down, supply side, tax cuts only is not what the Obama team thinks is necessary and if he is wrong; the 2010 election will tell him so."
This is what Arthur Laffer had to say about state taxes but it applies equally to federal taxes, but really it applies more to spending, "it's the spending stupid." But anyway this was the summation of Laffer's article....
One last point: States aren't simply competing with each other. As Texas Gov. Rick Perry recently told us, "Our state is competing with Germany, France, Japan and China for business. We'd better have a pro-growth tax system or those American jobs will be out-sourced." Gov. Perry and Texas have the jobs and prosperity model exactly right. Texas created more new jobs in 2008 than all other 49 states combined. And Texas is the only state other than Georgia and North Dakota that is cutting taxes this year.
The Texas economic model makes a whole lot more sense than the New Jersey model, and we hope the politicians in California, Delaware, Illinois, Minnesota and New York realize this before it's too late.
That's right VetI heard someone say "They are spies,they are supposed to lie."Goldwater accused the CIA and the Dems did not call it an outrage.....The CIA lied to JFK...Oh,I am sorry ,I don't think I am allowed to read any history books either....
As I pointed out ,this is about Pelosi this week ;then when it gets to the actual hearings it will be torture works but they won't ever admit they are wrong.
All the OSS/CIA was formed for was a money making operation after WWII ended. Bunch of smoke and mirrors operation if you ask me.
So the CIA doesn't lie, huh?How about:Richard Helms (former director of the CIA, convicted of lying to Congress in 1977 re: the overthrow of Allende, who was replaced by Augusto Pinochet) and Bill Casey ( former director of the CIA who lied to Congress about selling arms to Iran & using the proceeds to fund the Contras in Nicaragua).
JohnnyAnother example of control of the Justice departmentBush’s attorney general refused to send Karl Rove’s case of defying a congressional subpoena to a federal grand jury. The justice department is supposed to be independent but that is left to interpretation…Obama may want Eric Holder to dismiss a call for a special prosecutor but is that really up to the president?Remember Nixon's fired the special prosecutor only to get another one.
My emphasis was on the word filler (a distraction or deflection) and not really comparing Hilton to Pelosi.
JohnnyQuestion #1 President can displace all 90+ attorneys to concentrate on what law violation would be a priority. Karl Rove is being question as to whether he violated that.Question #2 same answer ..subjective#3 I strongly agree with your opinion but the ballot box,make up of congress are the only tools we have...The minority has the 60 vote closure .
1) The GOP (or any party) has NEVER controlled ALL THREE BRANCHES. Even if such was possible, I do not know how such could be proven as the extent of the Judicial Branch is too far reaching into the layers of society.
2) Fine. Replace the words "average American" with that of the "American taxpayer".
3) Pelosi doesn't get off that easy. Paris Hilton doesn't carry a battle ax (metephorically speaking), and if she did, she probably wouldn't know how to use it. We Americans have for too long ignored the true engine of politics in the US, ie: Congress, by always focusing on the person who's role is often that of figurehead. This broadening of focus and understanding of US political process is a good thing. I welcome the day when Congressmen/women (especially the leaders of the respective chambers) get equal attention focused on their own agendas.
JohnnyAverage American is subjective...IMO
Nancy Pelosi is just this week’s topic, a filler ,like the stories about Paris Hilton because when the results of the Senate investigation (soon) come out ;the topic will switch to serious accusations and either a special prosecutor or a Truth Commission will get to the bottom of this..IMO
One can call themselves a moderate without a bias but posts reveal so much more..IMO
JohnnyThat constitutional statement was meant strictly for Matt and his ilk.Somehow I don't feel sorry for the GOP ..Elections matter and 7 million more people sided with Obama's solutions in fixing this economy.
Trickle down,supply side,tax cuts only is not what the Obama team thinks is necessary and if he is wrong; the 2010 election will tell him so......Are you saying when the GOP controlled all three branches ,they brought everyone to the table?
PS, the whole point is that Pelosi: has again overstepped her boundaries; has made a regular practice of making false statements, accusations, and half truths; and,is clearly only interested in self designs, as opposed to being true to the Speaker responsibilities of managing the established House processes.
I truly feel sorry for Obama in that his inherent worst political enemy is the person whom should be his best allie. In the end, it is us, the average American, who will bear the pain caused by the reign of the Wicked-Witch-of-the-West-Coast.
"The president wanted a bi-partisan stimulus bill, so he cut out many of the pet projects the democrats had been longing for, to keep the three republicans he had. "
You hit on the biggest single problem I have with the current group in power, but your summary of events is mildly misleading.
The President (notice, I capitalized the word out of respect) asked for a bi-partisan bill. But his actions lead one to question "was that was either: for perception only; or, he is not the true leader of his party (note: the sitting President is legally leader of his party)?
Pelosi is the Speaker of the House, where Republicans were completely stonewalled and blackballed from contributing to this spending fiasco. The entire process was a "sit down and shut up" exercise. Roughly half of the American populace's representatives were completely cut out of the process. As a result, in the House, ZERO Republicans voted in favor of the stimulus. It was clearly a form of retribution dolled out by big fat liar Pelosi.
It was in the Senate, that three Republican's came on board after minimal compromise, at the behest of Obama. There was no cutting of "many pet projects" (key word being "many"), only a absolutely minimal compromise.
It seems to me, that the legislative powers that be have forgotten the spirit in which the Congress was founded and was designed to operate around: mutual compromise respective of the demands of the majority the constituents of each of the individual Congressman/woman.
Obama talks the talk as far as seeming to understand this. But his actions of signing the stimulus bill while saying "no more" seem to highlight a weakness in his resolve.
"I have noticed that only right-wing conservatives are allowed to read, own, interpet, and understand the Constitution. What an unfair world…Are we allowed to raise our right hand to support and defend the constitution?"
Dude, get real! I am no where near right-wing, but will say it has long been a contention (and fair enough observation) that activist liberal judges are rewriting the Constitution. What you are seeing is a backlash.
MattAs usual, you are caught with your vain opinions.
The president of the United States signs bills that are passed by both houses of congress. He does not submit bills. He can make signing statements and abuse his presidential authority.
Congress “shall make no law” …..Substitute any law that passed constitutional mustard and if it didn’t; we still have the Supreme Court to remedy that.
I have seen your posts, so I know you are just about making statements of which are always correct and without dispute in your mind. A legend in your mind ;so to speak…It would be a waste of my time to ever attempt to debate a vain person.
I have noticed that only right-wing conservatives are allowed to read, own, interpet, and understand the Constitution. What an unfair world…Are we allowed to raise our right hand to support and defend the constitution?
You have a good day.
As I suspected the right leaning posters concentrated on Nancy Pelosi veered off to Joe Biden but did not ever mention their feelings on torture, the Geneva Convention, the Constitution, or their support for a Truth Commission. Could this be a result of always getting slanted material or does the right still have a problem with strong Democratic women such as Hillary, Diane Feinstein, Barbara Boxer and Nancy Pelosi? Rush calls them Femi Nazi’s and the GOP voted against the Lisa Ledbetter “equal pay for equal work” bill.
Representative Pete Hoekstra(R-MI) saw the CIA notes on that September 2007 meeting in question and told Fox News that “You really can’t draw the conclusion that Pelosi was informed on water boarding.” He doesn’t say she wasn’t but since then Peter Goss backed away from hi OP-ED and is now saying “No comment.”…Only a Truth Commission can find out; if it is that important.
As for the strained relationship between the president and the speaker. Nancy Pelosi did not endorse Hillary or Obama during the primaries but she held the trump card of the number one super delegate and her staff knew she was in the Obama camp. Pelosi and Obama have gigantic egos as expected because it was not easy getting to their respective positions..She became the first woman speaker and he became the first black president. The president wanted a bi-partisan stimulus bill, so he cut out many of the pet projects the democrats had been longing for, to keep the three republicans he had. This infuriated the speaker and she was missing, when the president signed the bill into law. In the checks and balances; they will always clash but she knows the president controls the bully pulpit and the veto pen but the president knows it is the role of the speaker to introduce his agenda to the house for an up or down vote.
I was wondering when someone would notice Pelosi. I noticed that there is lots of attention being given to this woman's words before and after President Obama. I've read that our President and the Speaker of the House aren't exactly fond of each other. I imagine that Ms. Pelosis feeling like a turkey on the chopping block at Thanksgiving. LOL
I think it's time to acknowledge George W Bush's tremendous contribution! He was just a man with a different viewpoint just like all of us are on this site! I didn't vote for him but when he won the election he was my president too! That waterboarding should've stayed a secret!
it is so easy to criticize any president but stop and think about the burden on his shoulders! I don't think we'd like to know everything that the president has on his mind! It might scare us to see the reality of the situation in the world! Who know's maybe they are keeping some terrible secrets from the citizens that would make us worry even more! give George W. Bush a break it wasn't him alone making all the decisions, I think Cheney is trying to get his story out before the poo poo hits the fan!
give the politicians a break they continuously talk bull caca about anything just to keep their names in the news and on people's minds! If it wasn't for politics what would we disagree about? I'm glad that we are not all the same!
xringThanks for keeping it civil and even thou we disagree it does not mean we have to resort to name -calling...You made some good points but I got to do a little research as to why Joe Biden is the boogieman....You gave me a start but I had no idea...I still think it a right-wing thing but I may be wrong and if I am ;I will admit it.
have a good evening
I am 63 years old and why GWB and historians rank him below right now, Carter because it is not always about finance.Bush left Obama with two wars ,on a war of choice,a declining economy,Katrina left unfinished,Bin Laden still out there,corruption,circumventing the Constitution,redefining the role of the executive branch etc,etc. ..terri Schiavo
I'll agree with you, GW did have his faults. Worst president in your life time? I don't have the luxury of knowing your age, but in my life time is was Carter. Double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, laughing stock of the middle east, Hostage crisis that lasted for ever. Definitely Carter!
Mike - I realize that he is the DNC's pick, and you feel obligated to stick up for him, and that is o.k. There is just something about him that reminds me of a snake oil salesman. I look at it this way; would I trust him with a secret? No. Would I trust him to sell me an extended warranty on my car? No. Would I let him date my sister? No. Would I pick him as my running mate? Maybe, because he will definitely make me look good, and be a diversion when I need it. X
xringYou must never read my post ..I am not a blind loyalist ..Just the other day I said 15 democrats should be invested and I listed three....I disagreed with several of Obama's decisions and they documented in this forum....I have enjoyed politics for a long time and I know Barack Obama is delighted he has the consultation of Joe Biden.
I sincerely believe George w, Bush was the most incompetent president in my lifetime and Dick Cheney circumvented the constitution and committed war crimes..Is this what all this about?
Joe Biden approval rating are in the high 50s so I think this just a right-wing thing..IMO
If we dont get Pelosi out of there, this country is going to hell in a hat basket... She is terrible for this country!!!
Hey, no problem Arnold Friend - "it' ain't nothin' but a thang".Peace bro'
xringI have been admiring Joe Biden for several years and despite a gaffe or two his intellect and knowledge is without qestion..Is he the new boogieman?
If you watched the democratic debates or the one against Sarah Palin his knowledge of the facts came thriough...he chaired the important US Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs etc. etc...
My bad xring....I was wrong about that, I apologize.
Mike, you are the idiot.
Arnold Friend - Huhhh? I think you should actually read the post before you comment. You got it bass ackwards. However, my wife has called me an idiot before. So you may be right - in any event- read the posts.X
Now Mike - c'mon. Far above GW! Not hardly. GW is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he never gave away his secret hide-out either. If Biden ever (God forbid) had to take over the office, I would have to look for my kid’s tin foil hat. I realize that he is your man, so you have to stick up for him - but the DNC could have picked a better person.
Actually, I think it is a conspiracy. Since the democrats are in bed with the liberal media (NBC), they made a deal under the table to pick Biden. The late night talk shows were depressed that GW was going away and they would be without any good comic material. So the democrats said “o.k. we will pick Biden to give you guys some good jokes, and in return you never say anything bad about Obama”. Hmmmmm, I may be on to something here!X
On that I agree I think they retaliated against the Bush administration ,when 17 intelligent agencies reported that Iran did not have a nuclear program and dismantled theirs several years, embarrassing the administration,then several months later reported that Iran had the beginnings of one....Intentional?
IMO I don't think feelings were hurt at the CIA because they are used to being maligned and besides who is to say (without an investigation)that they were telling the truth...But you might be right.
Joe Biden is an idiot and for xring to suggest Biden is smarter than Bush shows just how stupid xring is.
Joe Biden..... what a joke !!!!
Mike - I agree that Leon would not present it to Prez. Barack unless it were a slam dunk set of evidence. However, in an agency that size, and after being accused of fabrication - someone will "leak" embarrassing information to send a message. Washington is just nasty that way.
xringJoe Biden is a very knowledgeable on foreign affairs and is far above George Bush in intellect...He is respected around the world and by his peers ;despite an occasional gaffe...We are fortunate to have him as VP.
Funding wayward funding ..and they have to report their actions not vice versa...I guess it all depends on the meaning of the word "works"..:-)
xringI meant that the CIA works under a chain of command and is not a rogue agency....Leaks would be investigated....I meant the CIA would have to present bullet proof evidence against the speaker before Panetta would even present it to the president...They don't have a vendetta against their friend ,Speaker Pelosi.
Mike..."The CIA works for congress not the other way around..."
Uhhh, isn't the CIA a quasi-independent agency under the Executive Branch and not the Legislative Branch with the Director appointed by the President but needing Senate confirmation?
BTW xring, never underestimate the power of the speaker of the house..Number three in the line of succession and actually controls the CIA funding.
Mike - I actually got a chuckle! Yeah, Biden is number 2, and he makes GW look like a rocket scientist! Now that is scarry stuff!
Mike - I didn't say she was guilty of wrong doing. I said she called them liars. Regardless of which political fence Leon sits on, when a person degrades your staff, a defense will be taken.The CIA working for congress is irrelevant. And the fact that Pelosi, Barack and Leon are all democrats doesn't mean a thing when a line is drawn in the sand. The fact is she "diss'ed" an entire agency, and if they want "leaks to the public", then it shall be done. Not everyone in the CIA is a devout democrat. Remember, it is D.C. Just my thoughts. X
Yea Vet, imagine politics being played in Washington and the media is eating it all up.…Shocked.
I think those same people thought it was ok for Libby to lie to the grand jury because they shouldn’t have questioned him anyway….Plame lost her job because she was outed and Libby stayed out of jail…Justice?
XringI agree Pelosi handled the CIA situation poorly but she is not being accused of any wrong doing..Those are just political accusation trying to intimidate her, so she won’t call for a truth commission.
The CIA works for congress not the other way around and they are strictly forbidden from retaliation or operating domestically…..Barack Obama, Pelosi and Leon Panetta are all democrats. In fact Leon Panetta worked with Pelosi in congress…If you read his letter, Panetta gave cover to the CIA and Pelosi but she chose to fight….a small mistake for now.
Thanks for that statement because we know that even thou we live on two different planets, we both love to express our view without resorting to name-calling or being mean-spriritedand we know at the end of the day; our minds will not be changed….Hard headed old coots..;-) If I could only communicate with those that agree with me in this conservative/libertarian/republican town, I would be a lonely old man…:-)
Pelosi has definitely painted herself into a corner. One thing is for certain, the CIA is the “keeper of secrets”, and I’m sure that Pelosi has many skeletons that she would rather not have revealed. Calling out the CIA and naming them as liars is a good way to open Pandora’s box. I don’t think I would throw a rock in a glass house.X
Well Johnny we have not sorted all the facts that lead us into the Iraq war.
We had the Senate Intelligence Committee Report Phase II that said the administration was not exactly truthful and did manipulate the facts, with half truths and a Senate Intelligence Committee is currently investigating the Bush Admistrating for violating the Geneva Convention and the Constitution for water boarding. We could easily combine these committees; so congress can do it’s congressional oversight…If you look at the Geneva Convention, our country does not have a choice, we are bound to investigate the use of torture...It is a document we signed. Being bored is not an excuse to ignore the violations...Why enter into an agreement?
I agree the chances of Bush/Cheney of going to prison are nil to none but twenty years from now we don’t want some ambitious lawyer saying the Bush administration committed torture and Obama swept it under the rug.
We have six noncoms’ sitting in prison for the abuses at Abu Ghraib, the higher ups got off scot free..That is a miscarriage of justice.IMO
As always, we will have to agree to disagree and wait on the outcome.
Sixgun...Please understand that I'm not defending or taking up for Mike. He needs neither and can take care of himself very well. I'm just putting forth my opinion that I'm very disappointed in your nasty attitude toward him. This "stfu" business is beneath contempt. Mike and I disagree about a lot of things. I'm not sure we would agree about the sun rising in the east, but the man is never disrespectful, nasty, mean, surly or rude. He offers his opinions in a clear and forthright manner without resorting to name calling. I'm not saying you need to agree with him -- goodness knows I seldom do, but rudely telling him to stfu is the sort of thing that should get deleted. It has no place in civilized discussion of ideas. By the way...it's YOU'RE, not YOUR...Mike will always use the proper word.
Tell me it ain't true. Someone in Washington lied?? Now the sky will fall for sure.From all I'm gathering, Pelosi was the only one who was briefed about Bush's torture policy. Surely this is not true either.I think the real issue is who did Pelosi torture and if she did, get rid of her or anyone else who did. At worst, she and other Democrats and Republicans failed in their responsibility to exercise oversightWhere was all the concern for the CIA when Valerie Plame was outed?
"...I think we need a Commission to sort all this out and deal with Democrats,Republicans,past administration and CIA..."
Been there, done that (in regards to sorting out what went wrong). This has been hashed and rehashed so often its to the point of nauseum.
I fail to see what yet another investigation will do, other than continue to pour salt on our nation's wounds. We know what happened, what failed to happen, and who was at fault (btw, its a ton of people, everyone from lowly field agents to Congressmen/women, from everything to filing unverified information to failing to question). All the political retaliation in the world cannot turn back the clocks.
Is there a criminal act somewhere down the line? Probably, but probably not in form of a calculated act, rather in form of dereliction of duty. But proving any such criminal act "beyond a reasonable doubt" would not be possible.
That's your opinion sixgun but you have every opputunity in the world to ignore the blog,my avatar is not that hard to miss ..It is separated from the comment section...Pot to stir is subjective.
You can write a blog about this beutiful day...level the field.
You never run out of pots to stir.. You seem to have an opinion about everything democratic..STFU with all your "I know it all" attitude.. Sheeish your getting so sick!!!
JohnnyThat’s pretty vague and without any details….I agree with the concept but I think we need a Commission to sort all this out and deal with Democrats,Republicans,past administration and CIA….Let’s acknowledge our mistakes, atone and move on.I don’t think this country is a shrinking violet, we can handle the truth.
Arrogance can mean continuing a lie at all cost.
Lies and proliferation of ignorance are two completely separate things. The CIA itself was duped and had engaged in faulty and incompetent intelligence verification processes. That does not give Bush or the CIA a pass by any means, but it does define the difference between malicious intent and simple arrogance.
How true Archie
It was the Bush administration that blasted the CIA for being wrong on everything (yellow cake in Africa) and then they honored the head manipulator George Tenet with a “Medal of Freedom.”…The wonders of newscast from the past.
The GOP have used this “everybody does it” excuse for eight years and now it is coming to a head….Barack Obama tried sweep it under the rug but Cheney insisted on in-your-face because he knows what is coming down the road…Seymour Hersh’s new book is coming out detailing clarifying and explaining what he meant about an "executive assassination wing" a Joint Special Operations Team…This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Democrats should insist on a Commission; not like 9/11 Commission that had “no one will be blamed” rules but one with full powers to prosecute. If Democrats are caught in the web, we have plenty more where they came from.
I don't think that the CIA is known for being open with the facts! They'll say whatever it takes to cover their butt! This is just a Republican thing to keep pressure on the administration! Newt Gingrich is just stirring the pot up! It was Bush administration torture policy not Pelosi's!
Yeah Mike, those nasty Republicans will do anything to make Pelosi look like an idiot. I mean they even got Leon Panetta the head of the CIA to come out and call her a liar.
You know maybe it wasn't Leon Panetta at all. It could be he was kidnapped and replaced with a Leon look alike who is really a Republican stooge. Poor Leon (the real Leon) he's probably in Gitmo being waterboarded as we speak.
Again shame on those Republicans for making Nancy Pelosi look dumber than a sack of nails - that's was really hard to do don't yah think?