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An ad hominem attack? I pointed out that you had stated your opinion as a fact, something you seem to do frequently. The 2000+ page bill voted on by the Senate Saturday night might have been available in its FINAL form 72 minutes before the vote was taken; it was most assuredly not available 72 hours before the vote.
It is interesting that, rather than respond to this fact (not opinion), you choose to accuse me of an ad hominem attack. Nice try, but no cigar.
most people feel the debt is way out of control. Yet both parties seem to think that spending more is the answer. We need to quit spending all this money we don't have. Freeze spending at current levels, No new unfunded spending at all. Institute either a VAT tax or a sales taxs that has to go to reducing the debt. no other use allowed. Once this monster is brought under control then go for the healthcare and other stuff. I would much rather pay a tax to reduce the debt than any other tax. besides all the interest money we pay would go a long ways to fund a lot of programs we need and not cost any more than we are paying now in interest. thus be cost neutral. Plus after the debt is paid you still have that tax income to be used for program funding. All at no extra added debt.
itisiI was using Glenn Beck as a metaphor for a mindset that seems to have forgotten the previous eight years.
I don't know what you writing a check to Internal Revenue has to do with the subject at hand. If you owed the IRS some money, how is that Obama’s or the Democrats ‘fault? And you say I engage in deliberate unintelligible gibberish; double-talk.:-)
May you and your family have a Happy Thanksgiving.
Look Mike I do not watch Glenn Beck… I’m not a happy camper for I had to write another check to the IRS yesterday. I’m sick and tired of the Democratic Party and your double talk on how great they are, they are nothing but thieves and liars. These are my talking points, because I’m madder than hell…
Have a good evening
itisi...SOMETHING has to be done. It seems you are quite comfortable letting things go as they are now. Let that happen and we will, for sure, positive, be broke very soon. We cannot fix what is broken without taking some bad medicine first. No pain, no gain!! We either try to do it now, or let our children and grandchildren pay the ultimate price, which will be much worse if we do not try to do what we can to fix it.You simply cannot let a business, as important as healthcare is to every American, go unchecked. It is heading toward holding America hostage, and setting up a scenerio of those who can pay, deserve to live healthy, while those who cannot, deserve to die and not be a bother to the rest of society.We either, spread the cost out across America, or let the government (us) continue to pick up the tab for more and more uninsured. Take your pick.
Sorry worn out 64 year brain cannot keep up with fingers...That's connection not conection.
I was not shunning or applauding the raising of the debt ceiling; just pointing out the facts.
Soon,Congress will have to pay the interest on the debt or default, pay for appropriations or shut down the government.... They will raise the debt ceiling.
I don't see the conection; Iraq was a war of choice.
It's time to drop the Glenn Beck talking points of worrying about the children and grandchildren…. Our parents didn't say that when Medicare was passed or when FDR’s policies were put in place. Did you worry about the grandchildren when George W. Bush’s passed two tax cuts to the wealthy?BTW not paid for;did I mention Medicare part D?
Next month the debts ceiling will have to be raised, you know how many times the Bush ministration did that?… The short-term deficits will continue to be high until we get out of this recession and bring those jobs numbers down a little bit…. The deficits and debt is way too high, no argument, but the two wars we are engaged in, the fall of Wall Street have to be considered…. You remember, You guys used that excuse when Bush squandered the surplus he was left with. I can hear the Bush loyalists now; we were headed into a recession, 9/11, and Iraq; so it was not our fault.
The rest of us? What group are you representing today?
I don't log into a poster’s blog with the sole purpose of being obnoxious and I expect the same from those that post on my blog.. If you continue this practice I will use the delete button; since ignoring you doesn't seem to work.
I am way too old to be playing your game of ad hominem attacks….My avatar and posts are easy to ignore.
Suzy, I guess you’re ok with the healthcare Bill if it passes, that your children and their children will being paying for as well… Just how are you going to explain that to them, after the country is bankrupt, and instead of a 40 hr work week they have to work a 100 hr work week… Thank you and the Democratic Party… BTW the big screen TV is on the way… Anything else you want from the rest of us, if so let us know?????
as to the war tax...Do you want the cost of the war passed on to your grandchildren? It's kind of funny how people think here. One one hand you think a certain way about some things, but on the other hand, you think a different way about basically the same issue.This war has to be paid for, not added to the deficit. How else do you suppose it is going to be paid for? Is the tooth fairy going to pitch in?
The legislation introduced by Senator John Cornyn in the Senate Finance Committee required that the FINAL legislative language to be voted on had to be available 72 hours prior to any vote being taken. It was defeated 11 Repulican votes FOR, 12 Democrat votes AGAINST. If you have deluded yourself into believing that the FINAL language voted on by the Senate Saturday night was available 72 hours prior to the vote, then we know that it is not tobacco you are smoking and you might consider cutting back on the amount you smoke.
What’s next for the Democratic Party a 7 day waiting period after you file out the paper work to go to Churches Fried Chicken?
Now you have 3 morons in congress wanting a war tax of course they are Democratic… The list goes on…
itisiYour two posts would make a nice infomercial for the Republican Party but it's mostly a mantra of right wing talking points.... Of course you are entitled.
AltonI have followed the CBO estimates for years but I do not lock into the accuracy of the data because of the word estimate...It’s a great tool.
Although the speaker the House and the president pro tempore appoint new members, previous members serve out their term of four years… Instead of constantly looking for a boogie man (Pelosi) you should look up the members of the committee, where you will find that Douglass Holtz-Eakin serves on the committee. Who is Douglass Holtz-Eakin? He was John McCain's economic policy adviser… You might look up the other members… Does a bipartisan committee seem logical to me? I think the committee members do their very best to estimate cost; I have never heard of a congressional investigation on any member of the CBO…. The CBO has been in existence since 1974 without any complaints from either party.
The president will answer the question on Afghanistan after the Asian trip; December 1 will be after the Asian trip… No specific date was given.
The point I was trying to make on the 72 hour waiting period… Transparency.
Mike,The Democratic Party is creating a virus that is going infect every American whether you want it or not. Which will be total dependence on the government for all you’re ever lasting needs? Why work, we have healthcare, social security because of some type of disability, welfare, food stamps, and we might be entitled to a big screen TV… The Democratic Party has become one giant comic book with nothing but jokes. These are your leaders…
Mike, I think you have been listening to your own rhetoric far to long.
Why in the world would the Republican Party jump onboard a democratic healthcare plan? It is laden with taxes, fines and criminal penalties if you do not play by these new rules. It does nothing but socialize medicine, it is a complete government take over of the current healthcare system. You left wingers have zero common sense, and have fallen from the same tree to many times. This Bill is the largest entitlement program in the history of this country, and the frame work is being designed by a bunch liberal left wing nuts…
when has the cbo ever been right. lets see there was soc sec, medi-care, part d prescription drug plan,and the list goes on and on and guess what they were wrong on ALL of them. Its time to admit this plan is just to big and bloated to be of any use at all. I'm all for health REFORM not heath care thats dictated to me by someone that will never have to suffer unders its effects. Our fearless leaders have the best health care our money can buy not the crap they say is good enough for us. All this will do is raise the cost to the paying americans to support more of the non-paying ones. Gives us a break we are taxed enough already.
Most individuals that have followed the history of the CBO will see its reports usually understate expenses and overstate revenues.
How anyone can call this government agency bipartisan, when the Director is appointed jointly by the Speaker of the House of Representatives (currently Pelosi) and the President pro tempore of the Senate (currently Robert Byrd, D-West Virginia, does not sound logical to me. With the Democratic Party having a super majority, the passage or not of this bill belongs to them, and not to the Republican Party.
One other point, the senate HAD to wait for 72 hours for interested parties to read the health reform bill?
Boy, how terrible,they had to wait and work on a Saturday, until after 7pm no less, they need a raise, or overtime pay. lol
On a side note, President Obama invited the press to a cabinet meeting, he did not address the health care bill and he didn't even bother to answer a question about his Afghanistan policy, (remember he was going to decide after his Asia trip, and it is after.)
Finally he concentrated on jobs, it's about time.
I don't believe in 10 year projections because of that plus and minus key on the calculator that I always talk about….CBO, Heritage Foundation, or Kaiser Foundation are just tools that we use to make a point….
I agree that those that oppose any kind of reform will use gloom and doom and those that want reform, will use cherry picked data to make their points… This did not start with the Obama administration; my viewpoint has been consistent… I do know that health care costs are going to continue to climb if we remain with the status quo…. Let me reiterate; CBO cannot calculate the true costs to the penny and most people realize that, but the results are bipartisan and honest… Republicans and Democrats usually accept their calculations knowing full well some variables will change from time to time but, hey, if the uninformed will buy their spin, they will continue spin.
Let me see if I understand your point Mike. You say that the CBO doesn'tknow how much healthcare "reform" will cost and in fact no one knows. Is that correct? And how is your position different than Observer's? Can I hazard a guess here and say you two are in agreement - you know I think you are !!!!
The two bills certainly won't hurt the insurance industry because the Conservadems will see to that.
AARP and AMA are on board because the proposed legislation would make each a mint.
Number #1....Those lacking reading comprehension skills would not have noticed that I was referring to chatter coming from the GOP on the talk circuit this past Sunday and their spin..Nothing else.....Number #2 CBO numbers at this point are just a rough estimate because the senate bill will be amended before it is ready to be combined with the house's bill in committee..The CBO will re-calculate the finished senate bill before it goes to committee. After the final bill(after many amendments)from the committee is finalized,they will ask for a final CBO calculation before they send it out for an up or down vote.
The AARP and the AMA are on board with the house bill that was passed.
It's funny,CBO numbers are just fine when they agree with a partisian view but not to be believed when they don't...The were all right when the GOP was in power.
The "bipartisan CBO numbers"? Whatever planet you are living on, it is certainly not this one. The CBO, as anyone capable of reading English and rational thought must know, was NEVER given the bill voted on Saturday night to score. The CBO numbers to which you refer are the sum of scores they gave to various "concepts" provided them by Harry Reid. These "concepts" may or may not be part of the bill voted on, but no one with an IQ above room temperature believes that they represent the true cost of what was voted on Saturday night. It was so bad, the CBO even noted in their response to Reid that they questioned if the "savings" would ever occur.
Also, the Administration's own Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services is on record that either the House or the Senate bill will bend health care outlays UPWARD, not downward. So, the net result if either of these bills is enacted will be an INCREASE in the cost of healthcare to the average consumer.