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Mike, I re read my post and did not realize that I made it sound like you might think there are 34% thinking Bush was in on 9/11 and I realize it was Joe who aired that idea.
Mike, do you assume that I will have trouble assimilating the information that the mortgage loans and other loans were packaged as securities and sold all over the world? On the basis that you and I disagree on many issues, you have decided that I might have difficulty with that idea?
Well I have known that for a long time and can only infer that if the mortgages had been good, that would have prevented the foreclosures that made the investments worthless. Since Fannie and Freddie are involved with many of the mortgages in the USA, one step further takes us to the possibility that they could be a source. Who is overseeing those two?
I have been aware that the left has their fringe crazies and so does the right. If you feel that 34% of people, probably mostly on the left, think G.W. Bush had anything to do with 9/11, I think the left fringe is pretty big. I was thinking it was much less and was thinking of Jane Ann Garafillo... can't spell it, but you know who I mean, with her, "this is about hating a black man straight up." referring to anyone who disagrees on Obama's policies, was about the most outrageous of the left. Then there was the one who said he had wished Palin had been in the plane that crashed last week. So each side has their extremes, but I don't see many on the right who actually wish ill will to those on the basis of disagreement.
Did it occur to you that maybe the media is adding fuel by demonizing each side?
born2bmeI would venture to say that minds are never changed and opinions are what they are.
I was 180° from Kenneth Schustereit but we had mutual respect for each other. , I disagreed with him but he never took it personal; and I never went on his blogs to berate him. In fact, I have never gone on any blog to attack anyone.... They have a right to post whenever they want and I have a right to ignore the blog.
You're absolutely right, our opinions will not have any impact on the economy or anything else for that matter.
I consider the source.
You would think these forums are a life-or-death situation for some people who post here. It's simply a person's opinions. I guarantee no one is trying to force-feed anyone, anything. Take it or leave it, but please people, don't get your undies in a wad over someone else's opinions, even if they do have data to back it up. You are still free to think what you want to think.
I have read your blog 3 times now, along with your comments. First you stated Bill Clinton did not own a business, but he was a Governor. Obama was a community organizer whose mission was to intimidate, agitate, and threaten corporation to give more money to his cause. G. Bush, you failed to mention his other businesses that were a success.
You claim not to have an agenda, hog wash, and you do. You claim you’re not into personal experiences or certain types of opinions, again hog wash, time after time you give personal experiences along with convoluted opinions.
You give the impression that everyone but your self is or has been employed at some convenient store for an entire career. You talk as no one has any type of education but ones self.
Your economic puzzle that you present to all to read is convoluted; I for one would not let you balance anyone’s check book little on the governments.
Your opinions are full of contradiction, but then again you claim to be left of center, so in closing your job is too show that anyone who disagrees with you has absolutely no credibility, your way or should I say Obama’s way or the highway. See you guys in the funny papers. Good day and good night, I have enjoyed posting on the Vic Ad…
I hear you on the credit cards.
I think the GOP will have to scrap privatizing Social Security because people are pulling out of their 401ks,so they won't an appetite to invest a small portion of their FICA in the market.....Wisconsin's Paul Ryan is even admitting that his plan for eliminating Medicare and replacing it with vouchers will place more of the burden on the patients but he is willing to raise taxes to meet any shortfalls...No wonder he only has 13 cosponsors...I guess it's OK when republicans want to raise taxes.
Those credit card companies can kiss my a$$. I will not use them unless it is my last resort. I'm not giving my money away to people like that
Wall Street, big banks, S&L's are all responsible for this, but the real crimes came from those who looked the other way while it was happening, and they did know it was happening because they were warned about it various times. Bush, Cheney, and various others were in bed with those entities and making millions of dollars of their own through various contracts and other schemes. Think Halliburton and oil companies.Why do you think that Bush wanted to privatize SS? It was yet another way for the big companies to strip every dollar out from under the ones who could least afford it. Conservatives, or those who bankroll the Republican party, want it all and they don't like the government stopping them from getting it. SS is one area they cannot get to right now. They wanted to change that, and still do. 401K plans are a joke if they can be robbed by greedy Wall Street schemes.
The easy credit was a way to reel people in so they could get all the interest from them that was humanly possible, then get the property back in the end anyway. They counted on people wanting all the new gadgets and preyed on that by offering more and more credit to people they knew didn't have a chance in hell of ever being able to pay it back. It worked quite well for a long time, until the bottom dropped out and they got stuck with properties, and other various loans, that they could not sell.
jbjI know this will never penetrate but Fannie and Freddie is one side of the equation but derivative trading, credit default swaps,CDOs of packaged junk mortgages are another. Wall Street defrauded pensions holders with their scheme until they ran out of borrowers.
The government and Fannie and Freddie is about lack of oversight but Wall Street is where the real legal criminal activity took place. It was virtually unregulated and brokers were not being upfront with investors. Yes, we know what happened with the Wall Street melt down but we didn't have the regulations in place to stop it.... Since the culprits paid back the TARP money with interest, all is forgiven except for the water- downed financial reform bill,which only two or three republicans voted for.
Speaking a credit cards, I see where the the lending companies are going to raise interest rates again, since consumers aren't spending; they got to squeeze the money out of them some way.I finished reading a book last month called " The Big Short" which detailed the shenanigans of the Wall Street meltdown... They knew the government would bail them out. One of their schemes was to bet that a first time homeowner would not be able to meet the first payment... An immigrant maid financed five condominiums in NYC, on a salary of $15,000 a year.... A fruit picker in California was able to purchase a $750,000 home.... Like many other small investors, I'm seriously thinking about taking my money out of the market.
Tell me, born2, what exactly happened to the mortgages? Do you know? I know of several times there was legislation wanting to get the Freddie and Fannie issues looked into but were voted down. I don't think anyone knows what went on inside that mess but I bet we find out one day, and I don't think we will be able to blame Bush.
But if Bush and his cronies are or were involved in some form of criminal activity, lets get that out and solve it.
I am against protecting anyone. What has happened to our country is tragic and anyone causing it needs to be dealt with.
Their outrageous statements will come back and bite them.
jbj said "born2, if I thought I only represented my own interests here, and not that of so many others I would sit down and shut my mouth or move. "
I don't know if that's a " truth in numbers" statement" or you have a high level of trust of those you listen to....i.e. Every morning Joe Scarborough tries to convince viewers that crazies are on both sides. I have not heard any democrat make the outrageous statements that Newt Gingrich,Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman,or Jim DeMint make on a daily basis. Joe says that there was a poll that stated that 34% of democrats thought George W Bush has something to do with the 9/11 explosions..... I don't recall that and I don't know of any democrat that thinks that.
I'm not saying that there are not crazies on the left, because they are, I'm just saying, I'm not hearing outrageous statements coming from them such as Obama was not born in United States and that he is a Muslim.
The economy would have tanked years ago without being held up by too-easy-to-get credit. (credit cards and mortgages) That credit was extended for the sole purpose of making it appear that our economy was strong for a lot longer than it actually was.It was a power grab and the Bush cronies were all in on it. It was not supposed to crash quite so soon, so someone miscalculated a bit.
AMEN !!!!!!!! You hit the nail on the head.
jbjI was not talking about hypotheticals just the wording of the actual bill.... That wording was no different the current language we always had ,concerning "end of life” consultations. NO,it was the the brainchild of Ms. McCaughey and popularized by the likes of Sarah Palin and right wing media, meant to demonize and favor the insurance companies.
Why are you so interested in what goes on between labor and business? It's called collective bargaining for a reason... Both parties sign a Bona fide contract.
That's just it; there is no magic bullet and one size does not fit all.... The governments of most countries are partnering with the free market during these dire times.... The right will characterize this as socialism. High unemployment will be with us for a long time because we don't as many manufacturing jobs as we once had.
How are you gonna pay for the Bush tax cuts?.... The Obama administration wants to let the tax cut to the top 2% expire because it will add $680 to the deficit... Or in laymen terms, we will pay those 120,000 people about $3 million,apiece.
For the most part ,TARP has already been paid back with interest but the housing market and the little talked about commercial lending market, financing of two wars, lack a consumer spending, and less revenues are problems unique to the United States of America.
You cannot go by what you hear on tv commercials news shows, or newspapers, to "think" you know what most Americans want. Your idea of "most Americans" is highly biased according to what you choose to hear and your own beliefs. There are huge numbers of those who have thoughts and opinions that don't voice them to public venue. I think you may be surprised at the number of those people, but you would never know it because you just assume that news shows are reporting on "the way it is" out there.The voting booth is the only way to get a real feel for what is most important to people. Even that may not tell the whole story because people don't vote for various reasons and many of those reason are not because they do not care about the outcome.Just remember that all news organizations are biased in one way or another.
born2, if I thought I only represented my own interests here, and not that of so many others I would sit down and shut my mouth or move.
I guess everyone hears about death panels with health care in other countries. There will be some unpopular decisions for older Americans on health care, if we follow the path of England or Canada. There are unpopular decisions made here now, but they are made by medical experts, not the government. Believe me, we have some pretty unlimited options with Medicare now, even for the very old. With the cutting of funding that is coming we may see some limiting of options for older Americans. That could be a very real fear.
You will have to explain "rosy scenario", or maybe I am not as right wing as you assume. For unions to only be 12%, I really cannot rationalize the turning over to them of so much money. I hear there will be much more on the horizon.
It may be a good idea to look at what other countries are doing to keep heads above water, that would be better than what we are doing now.
I really think the housing market and Wall street corruption had a much more negative effect on the economy than the Bush tax cuts. I think it will show that if we let them expire.
There's the rub. Truthfully, you can never speak for anyone except yourself. When you say things like, "what I feel most people think or need", you are trying to speak for someone other than yourself. It cannot be done with any kind of seriousness, and people cannot take it seriously when you do that.Speak for yourself, and only yourself.
jbjYou're absolutely right, that is just your opinion, not necessarily a fact but when you say that " most Americans read the health bill online as opposed to the legislators who worked on separate sections of the bill, is just a convenient talking point.... You have no idea, what say, 150 million people did. I remember listening to the late night health care debates on CSPAN, only to hear layman voters and talk show host exaggerate and demonize..i.e. Death panels.
One thing I notice about right wing conservatives, is their rosy scenarios; mom, apple pie and Chevrolet.... I have read where unions made concessions in New Jersey, California and Michigan but in several states they have not.... They only represent about 12% of the workforce, so I don't believe it's any more of a demon than the NRA or any other special interest group. I complain about the defense contractors.
Sunday, on CNN's GPS, I heard that Germany is making great strides in the world economy because they they kept their union wages and benefits, did not ship their jobs overseas, and did not abandon their manufacturing base... Their product is a little more expensive but the quality and reputation makes up for it..... You have to have a strong consumer base.
I didn't complain very much when the Bush administration were doling out the tax cuts because I wanted to see if that theory actually worked without making spending cuts. I found out.
Mike, I don't pretend to speak for the American people, I AM part of them. I think they are more center or center right than our government seems to want to move things today. Most of what I say represents what I think most people feel or need.
You seem to have a little problem with assumption. I don't need the right wing to tell me about policemen, firemen or teacher jobs, I was a teacher for 21 years. But not union. If our budget was short we did not get a raise. If health care costs were short, our health care plans were adjusted or the costs to us raised. Our retirement had to support itself. Unions should do the same. They are about to ask for more.
Thanks for pointing out that when I don't know about something I go back to right wing talking points, that is another liberal trick ... like mocking. Works about as well.
jbjAs I've said before, I don't use folkly sayings or pretend to speak for the American people, I look at raw data. Saying that Bush had support from both parties is one not willing to admit that republicans lost their way. You're a full blown apologist.
I really don't care about your personal opinion of Obama because I really don't try to personalize my answers..."The GOP would ...overwhelm us with their economic solutions" since I know, they don't really have an answer, I was mocking the GOP... David Gregory of Meet the Press gave the number one republican in the senate a chance to explain how they were going to pay for extending the Bush tax cuts to the top 2%... Mumbling and stumbling, Mitch McConnell was non responsive.. Then David Gregory asked him about GOP economic plans.... He went on to say that Paul Ryan had a great economic plan.... David said " if it's so great, how come he only has 13 cosponsors."... McConnell didn't really have an answer but he stuck his foot in his mouth again by saying " I have sent three responsible republicans and Boehner sent three of his own to the bipartisan deficit/debt reduction committee, we will see what they come up with in November."..It was then when David lowered the boom by saying " let me get this straight, you are waiting for the results from a commission, a democratic president came up with?".. I'm paraphrasing.
The stimulus worked to prevent firemen, teachers and policemen from being laid off... Public jobs are not catastrophic diseases and neither is collective bargaining, as right wingers would have you believe.
When you you don't know the subject you go back to right wing talking points such as " since when did liberal start believing CBO numbers?"... Show me a link where democrats, progressive and liberals discounted bipartisan CBO numers... I can show you where right wing bloggers(in this forum) discounted them... Comment history is a great thing.
The U.S. national debt grew significantly from 2001 to 2008, both in dollars terms and relative to the size of the economy (GDP), due to a combination of tax cuts and wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq. Budgeted spending under President Bush averaged 19.9% of GDP, similar to his predecessor President Bill Clinton, although tax receipts were lower at 17.9% versus 19.1%
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Mike check out when the debt started growing.
Bush had support of both parties.
People see things very differently. I see Obama as trying to please everyone and pleasing no one by his position on the mosque. You see it as simply making himself clear.
When one says, "one would think... the GOP would ...overwhelm us with their economic solutions...." it seems to me you think people are expecting them to share their plans. So explains my comprehension of the above. And when did a liberal start listening to CBO?
You talk about "trickle down". What do you call it when when we pass a stimulus and nothing comes out? Unless you think what is happening with the unions and government jobs is ok.
You're very good at lecturing but you don't take your own advice.... The poster in question comment was removed because it was just another " I hate Obama, Andrew Brieitbart "type of post, nothing to do with economics'.
Your reading comprehension is appalling because I don't expect the GOP to rescue us. I've heard their solutions. A proposal is just that, unless it goes through CBO calculations and has the necessary votes to pass,it is pretty much useless.... I'm not waiting for the GOP to come up with a "reasonable fix' (as you put it) because they are using the same ol' 1980 playbook... Cut taxes, reduce spending, and privatize... Trickle down will take care of the rest.
The Bush administration passed off a $1.2 trillion deficit, two wars off budget, a seven trillion dollar Medicare Part D prescription drug plan that was not paid for, and two tax cuts financed with borrowed money... You wanna blame a republican Congress that passed all this or a president that approved it with his signature? Take your choice but it still equals inherited.
Mike, the American people did not need any help from the Rebulicans in demonizing the Health care bill. It was online and they read it, unlike those in Congress. .
Mike, you want the GOP to rescue us and then you go and remove edpost's comment? This is exactly the problem and has been all along. The GOP offers but their input is ridiculed and ignored. This is a big part of the problem.
I have been waiting to hear some reasonable fix from those in power, and you are waiting to hear it from the GOP. But we each want to hear something more in line with our personal beliefs and it ain't gonna happen.
And if you think this economy is something the Democrats inherited, you and I have very different meanings for the word "inherited". I call this mess something they and others in Congress created.
Well, I am Catholic but I'm not responsible what individuals do, Catholic or not.
CNN should've found someone else to interview because Rev. Franklin Graham was not allowed to lead a prayer by the pentagon because of is his statement " Islam is an evil religion.''........Rev. Graham thanked President Barack Obama for issuing a National Day of Prayer proclamation and for instructing the Justice Department to challenge a federal court ruling that declared the event unconstitutional.
I suspect CNN knew Rev. Graham was gonna say something controversial... It's all about the ratings.
"A prominent minister, Rev. Franklin Graham believes Obama is a Muslim because he Carries the seed of the father"
So, by Rev. Graham's reasoning, since Adolf Hitler's parents were Catholic, he was raised a Catholic, then somehow the Catholic Church is responsible for what he did? Do all of you Catholic's out there know that you are all like Adolf Hitler and are responsible for the Killing of millions of Jews?
See how absurd that kind of thinking is?
Ed PostAs I said before, you have fooled me twice now... I will not write a blog so you can piggyback off it ,to post your conspiratorial right wing rants.
Any further comments by you will be permanently deleted because you obviously do not know anything about economics' other than what you read on right wing blogs or from the hate merchants.
I don't want to have that kind of dialogue.
Try someone else...I am through with you.
Have a good day.
Keith Olbermann had a great sketch last night along the lines of " Obama is a secret Muslim conspiracy."
1. When his father(only saw him for two days) renounced Islam, a picture of Obama on a tricycle was shown.2. Pictures of Obama's Christian wedding were shown.3. Pictures of president Obama baptizing his daughters in a Christian church were shown.4. A picture of President Obama holding his hand on the bible; while being sworn in as president of the United States.5. This president has ordered the killing a more radical Islamic leaders than the previous administration.6. And the list goes on and on but heed not.... The 18% will believe what is convenient.
KyleCA prominent minister, Rev. Franklin Graham believes Obama is a Muslim because he Carries the seed of the father. How can a prominent Christian representative believe such nonsense?
As MSNBC has been reporting, if president Obama was a blue eyed, blond haired, president, this would never be an issue. President Bush invited Muslim leaders to his ranch and preached about the virtues of Islam. The Islamophobes never complained. President Bush even held hands with Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah on a guided tour of his ranch in Crawford,Texas.
A look into those polls that believe that president Obama is a Muslim , 90% are right wing republicans. They say "ignorance is bliss."
BTW What's wrong with being a Muslim?
If I recall correctly Bush was often seem holding the hand of the Saudi leader - what absurd closeted homosexual conclusions could we draw from that?
Both were respecting the leader of a nation and the local religious and national customs.
In Obama we have a leader who has been exposed to cultures in the world many Americans didn't have the first idea existed unless we were invading them.
Regardless of his actions as President, I believe his diverse experiences of the world are to be admired.
Ok Ed, I will take your issues one by one.
First, major component of the health care bill will not take effect until the year 2014.
AT&T made a business decision based on what they saw all as a cost increase, much like they would do if a vendor raise their prices.Under the old law, companies received a federal subsidy worth up $1,330 per retiree if they provided former workers with drug-care benefits. At the same time, however, companies could deduct the value of the subsidy from their taxable income. The new health bill eliminated a tax deduction that companies used to cut the cost of drug-benefit programs for retired workers.
I don't know about that email scare. I bet you can't provide a legitimate source..... Did you somehow forget that Health Insurance premiums were skyrocketing before the health care bill?
I don't need a challenge, I have owned three businesses, one in the early seventies when the oil embargo prevented me from buying gasoline to sell to my customers. You're not unique.
As for your one sided hypothetical, I'm not really concerned about people looking for a soft landing when close to 15,000,000 people are unemployed.
ED, great post!
Lets see he ignored the national day of pray, but he can kiss the a—of Muslims over Ramadan. Then they say 18% of the folks believe he is Muslim, I was surprised it was that low, based on the fact that his father was Muslim and most of his relatives are as well. I just find it odd that he can travel to Europe then leaves his wife and travels on to Saudi Arabia and bows the to the King out of respect for the Muslim religion, maybe Sharia law was in play on that trip. No Beckism there, it was pretty much seen around the world. So based on a few facts one can draw their own conclusion or opinion. What is really funny MSNBC is finding it hard to believe why folks even think he might be a Muslim. I listen for about 30 minutes of their comments, and not one time did they ever bring up a family member, not even his father. So his fans are alive and kicking.
What ever it takes.... We can give corporations a tax cut , repeal the estate tax, and reinstate the entire Bush tax cut s but in return, corporations should start hiring immediately with full benefits and a cost of living raise. They should also promise not to ship the jobs overseas or give back their tax incentives. It's all about compromising, I don't mind Catipillar getting free land with my portion of my property tax or abatements, because other businesses will build around a major corporation like Catipillar.... It's all about growth not saving $1.25 off your property tax. We are in this together..... I want Victoria to grow.
The Bush tax cuts gave the corporations those tax breaks but they shipped their jobs overseas.... Look up the number of jobs that were created during the Bush administration.... They didn't create the environment for the free market jobs.... We didn't get our bang for the buck
Speak of the pot calling the kettle black... The president was hosting was hosting an Iftar dinner, the meal that breaks the dawn-to-dusk fast for Muslims during the holy month of Ramadan, in the State Dining Room at the White House in Washington, when he made that speech... It was appropriate.
Why don't you learn about the issue instead of always putting your foot in your mouth?
Trying to get the people's mine off of jobs..lol.. that data is available every Friday... Another one of those Beckisms or from the face book of Sarah Palin?
The mosque is not an important issue. Why did the President insert foot in mouth with a comment? Why would he not comment on the wisdom of his remarks? He opens up the can of worms. IMO he had a motive, to get jobs and the economy off of his radar scope for a little while.
The buck stops with the president of the United States; I have no problem with that but I don't buy into sound bites. Last night, I was listening to the conversation between Former Reagan chief of staff Ken Duberstein and Clinton chief of staff John Podesta...Mr. Duberstein said he voted for Obama but he thinks he did too much... He said American likes to take things in small bites..... John Podesta said in his heart, president Obama believes that for the future tackling health care, finance reform, and propping up GM was the right thing to do but unfortunately for the democrats, it won't show up before the November elections....GM has already shown a profit and are offering a IPO.
I doubt if any of the past Presidents knew what to do either. They just sign the bills, not write them. Like Mike said, they have other people figuring out the details.
I don't have those concerns because I don't suffer from Islamophobia.
I don't think it really matters whether president Obama ever owned a business, President Bush owned three failed businesses and Bill Clinton never ran a business... Presidents rely on economic advisers, the luck of the economy, and sometimes they have an inner sense to get out of the way.
Bailing out the banks was a product of George W. Bush... It was a good move I might say because without it we might have gone over the ditch..... I don't think the mosque issue is as important as having a job.... By the way it is a community center with one story of 13 stories set aside for prayer.... The pentagon was flown into but a mosque has always been there... How about those days of the George W Bush administration?