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For what it's worth...
Fidel Castro applauds US health-care reform:http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Cuban-l...
There are many ways around any law, especially a law like this that is very complex and convoluted - no one really understands it.
Millions of people will be affected by this monstrosity in a million different ways. It will therefore have millions of unintended consequences (UC).
Regulations will be made to correct these things which will open new UC's. It will be an enormous task to keep this thing even half way afloat. Even now it is starting to leak - it's just one day old.
It will in a short time consume a vast amount of the national income and become unsustainable. That's when you'll see how bad healthcare can get - do it yourself surgery using the internet.
As Milton Friedman said it's not the intention of universal healthcare that is being disputed, it is the final result and the UC's.
Oops a miscalculation...
Would the 35% tax credit on the 50% match from the employer for insurance exceed the savings of 1000 hours of reduced payroll a week, which equates to the company not having to accept the 35% tax credit, or spend the remaining 15% for health insurance?
The answer is obvious, to me anyway.
100 employees, per employee health care $300 a month, $150 a month paid by employer = $15,000 - 35% = $9,750 a month. that they would have to spend and also wouldn't have to pay, and also the employer wouldn't have to pay, say @ $10 a hour X 1000 = $10,000 a month, plus the employer matching SS withholding @ 7.4% ( or there about) = $740.
So instead of spending $9,750 a month, the employer saves $10,740 a month, for a net gain of $20,490 a month by cutting hours and not having to offer health insurance.
True Mike, but would the 35% tax credit offset the 1000 hours a week in pay the company would save in my scenario?
I know, there isn't a answer for a hypothetical question, but it is something to think about.
Looks like it will be one of those details to be ironed out later with more legislation.
This what Fox News says about the spitting incidence - yeah I know it's Fox News.
The point is there is a lot on conflicting information about what occurred and why. Some of it appears staged for dramatic effect.
You forgot an important factor in the equation.The law does encourage small businesses to have coverage, but it does so with a tax credit worth 35 percent of a firm’s health care costs through 2013, and half of those costs for the next two years, provided firms buy the insurance on the new insurance exchanges that will begin operating in 2014.
1.Don't know the answer to your question but I think most small businesses want to offer rather than deny insurance...I would.2.I don't really think accounting gives that much thought to a business decision.
Just a hypothetical, under the new I have heard every 2 part time employees are counted as one full time employee, to determine if a company has over 50 employees, so thus they would have to offer health ins. to their employees.
A company currently has 100 full time employees, no part timers.The company is open from 8am to 5pm, one hour unpaid lunch, Monday to Friday.
They change their hours to begin work at 6am with 20 employees working 6am to noon,20 workers from 7am to 1pm, 20 workers from 8am to 2pm, 20 workers from 9am to 3pm, and 20 workers from 10am to 4pm.
Now they are open one hour longer with 100 part time workers=50 full time under the new rules.
Hmmm, the company thinks, lets let 2 out of the 100 go, now we have 49 full time workers, we do not have to offer ins.!!!
Just something to think about.
Victore I just will have to explain your last comment at another time.
BTW I continue to tell you that I am not "either or" person... Sure,I voted for and support this president but the administration did not write this bill... It does have a lot of flaws that will have to be fixed in the years to come. Social Security was not perfect in the beginning.
Have a good night
Again good post. Before someone accuse me as being a Marxist or a race card pusher, I was agaisnt this bill.
Mike, Ok, I know that you’re a big advocate of this President and this healthcare “LAW”, you will make your choices, and I’ll make mine, oh wait I can’t do that anymore the government must approve of my insurance provider, or I could be fined x amount of dollars. And there is my point!
The Tea Party people did spit on, and shout hate words that can't be printed here, at Congressmen going into the Capitol on Sunday. Those who deny this was done are of the same ilk that deny the holocaust happened.
ACORN….lol… The GOP used them as one of their stalling tactics, with an amendment to defund a bankrupt company…. I guess the right will need to get a new bogeyman.
I can only take them at their word; some say this health care reform bill is an intrusion of their freedom…. and what took them so long to complain? A black president, two consecutive losses at the polls, falling poll numbers? I think it's a feeling of helplessness.
We've had deficits, debts before but we averted a depression….Our troops are doing a bang up job in Afghanistan and have al Qaeda on the run. If George W. Bush were still in office; we would have had a “mission accomplished” banner strung out over an aircraft carrier. Wall Street is still up to their shenanigans but no outcry because we cannot get finance reform passed, but it's the health-care reform bill that is provoking all the violence!
Well at least ACORN will not be advising people on how to "game" the new health care system.
VictoreI don't discount polls but the trend in going in the favorable position.
Again with the unconstitutional without verifiable proof.
As I recall the split started with Nixon;progressed to Clinton got wider with Bush and here we are.
The start for health care started with 69 million votes, a majority in both houses.... The party of no, will be that way throughout.
Mike,I haven’t put any % on this, but you discount the polls, ok I will use this; 50% didn’t want this particular healthcare bill those are honest numbers and their from both sides not to exclude the I’s as well… I’m not advocating anything, this bill is wrong, it’s unconstitutional, it’s cost much, and congress robbing Peter to pay Paul, where in the hell is the common sense in this bill, there is none. Congress is using a calculator of unknown origin, they defied will people by turning a deaf ear. So tell me where I’m wrong? And the President has split this country right down the middle. This vote was no landslide in the House it was 219-212.
What precedent are you talking about?… We've had Social Security, Medicare, Patriot Act, Home Land Security, before this health care bill…. You know I will automatically be enrolled in Medicare next year… How is that different from a mandate?
I'm going to put on my psychiatrist hat and use my degree I got from Wal-Mart 'in saying ,this all stems from conservatives being out of power since 2006…..A lot of this is just sour grapes.
I just saw were Senator Grassley is starting to praise some parts of the bill and Senator Cornyn is starting to back off his talk of repeal…I think they see all this will hurt them if they are seen to be aligned with the more violent wing of the Tea Party..Another story has the Tea party starting to rein in some of the hot heads…We shall see.
Mike, referring to this as just a "piece of legislation" is a bit mild, don't ya think. Will it take an Enabling Act before you step back to see the trend? (Had to work in a Godwinism for you.)
I didn't mean it in the literal sense but it doesn't take much to incite the wing nuts into violence.
You keep talking as if 80-90% of the people feel the way that you do. The Tea Party, militia, wing nuts make up a small portion of the United States. I may be wrong but I don't think you're going to take up arms against the United States of America over a piece of legislation.
I don't feel any government intrusion; neither do my friends or family…. I don't feel any different than I did eight years ago, 20 years ago, 40 years ago.
Mike,I don’t see the correlation of “Waco” or “OKC bombing”, but it might have merit. But there has never been a massive government intrusion like this in the history of this country, but the elements are there for civil unrest and no one the blame but the law makers. I believe the court system will resolve these issues. People just like don’t the government telling them what to do. You have to admit one thing there has been a precedence set here by this administration. It may just be the tip of the iceberg. It want be the first time or last to happen to a country. I just hope and prayer it doesn’t happen.
Justify violence and reprehensible conduct all you want but not all news outlets have a filter...I witnessed the rowdy crowds but I don't have to see dead bodies in order to recognize hatred, bigotry, and upcoming violence...Steny Hoyer warned Congress today about the threats and possible threats.
And everyone knows the Tea Party spokesman is creditable.
If the shoe was on the other foot; I would denounce violence of any type… after all we are supposed to to be a civilized nation that has graduated from the "gunfight at the OK corral” mentality…. That's for losers.
You are right. One doesn't have to see dead bodies to know volience would or had occur. This Mob rule, hang them high, and yes OX Bow attuide need to be nip in the bud.
This comment was removed by the user.
Perhaps the Tea Party should dump some Congressmen into Boston Harbor... in effigy, of course.
For the record, the Tea Party did not sanction this "attack."
"The Lynchburg Tea Party's website issued a response which says that Troxel's action "was not requested, sanctioned or endorsed" by the group."
If they really wanted to scare him, they should have stuffed a potato up his tail pipe or lit a bag of dog s#@t on his front porch and rang the door bell.
All of this stuff is being blown out of proportion. I personally don't believe a third of it. We are being played by the liberal media.
What we should be worried about is using all this hysteria to justify restrictions on the free press. I would not be surprised to see something like martial law being declared.
Yeah Mike, I saw several trucks today loaded with fertilizer, flying the Tea Party flag driving like a bat out of hell all over town - it was frightening.
Victores comment inspired another blog posting by me, another attempt by me to be morbidly funny; more morbid than funny I’m afraid, but hey.
Thanks John;I will do that.
I wrote a comment on this; but it turned out to be to big, to be just a comment. My blog concerning healthcare was in response to your posting Mike. I hope you have a chance to read it.
Authorities are investigating the severing of a gas line at the home of U.S. Rep. Tom Perriello's brother following the posting of his address online by Tea Party activists...Last night I heard representatives families, who voted on the health care bill , are being targeted for retaliation.
This sorta reminds me of "Waco" and the "Murrah Federal bldg". bombing..It's the remaking of the militias movement... It's getting close to April 19.
According to TXCN, congress now getting death threats, some members were briefed by capitol police early today. I hope this doesn’t get out of hand, but we maybe on the road to civil unrest. Just a thought.
Those chairmanships are usually seated by seniority but Conyers should be knowledgeable. I'm a bit disappointed in him because he let Karl Rove, off scot free, mocking his judicial powers.
I've heard constitutional scholars say that the Constitution gives Congress broad powers in the Commerce Clause. Actually there is no case law in this issue; perhaps the Supreme Court should visit this issue. As I understand it, saying “the Constitution has no provision” is not an argument. Perhaps Conyers should have said that the “mandate” is an economically activity that could be upheld under the commerce clause because it gets consumers to internalize their costs rather than spread it across the country .It requires Americans to engage in a commercial exchange. …And he could have cited such cases as Raich, Lopez & the United States versus Morrison because they are similar in nature.
I give you this. If it were me and I knew the opposition was going to bring up the subject; I would have my staffers become constitutional scholars on the subject and then give me an hour or two briefing; so I wouldn’t make a complete fool of myself.
I think it's fascinating and intriguing…. but like I say, if it becomes necessary, it can be renamed a “tax”….But wait, that's a tax on the middle class and the spin machine, keeps spinning.
Mike said: "Call them what you want..."
And what I want to call them is whatever they are, not strictly what they claim to be. I'm asking that they do what they say and say what they do. I can't understand how anyone could disagree with that.
---Mike said: "Fundamentalism is often an undesirable trait because you can only get along with those that think like you."
I suppose that's why the new healthcare plan is so "undesirable" to many people.
Mike...I was sorta kiddin' about Conyers "rewriting" the Constitution. I know he can't. He does, however, show an uncommon lack of knowlege of the document -- something forgivable in some people, but he's supposed to be THE EXPERT in Congress. I find it difficult to cut slack for a man who is not only a member of the Judiciary Committee, but is the Chairman of the committee. If HE doesn't understand that the Constitution has no provision for requiring citizens to purchase anything if they don't want to but says it does, then, he's either ignorant or lying -- your call as to which.
Call them what you want but often times you have to take what you can get... in the world of politics.
Fundamentalism is often an undesirable trait because you can only get along with those that think like you. In politics, a phrase is often used "don't let the perfect, the enemy of the good.”
I know where you come from, as I've said many times before, we are wasting a lot of bandwidth because we will always be on different planets as far as ideology and opinions go.
It's the totality of the person..IMO
Have a good day
Mike said: "I disagree, we have a lot of fiscal conservatives in Congress but fiscal conservative policies are not always practical."
My assessment was based on their actions, not their words. Is a (supposed) fiscal conservative who doesn't vote that way really fiscally-conservative? If we're going to use labels, they might as well mean something. So, what shall we call the self-identified fiscal conservative who doesn't practice fiscal conservatism, other than a liar?
I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the local pollsters parroting the talking points of the RNC.
I disagree, we have a lot of fiscal conservatives in Congress but fiscal conservative policies are not always practical. They are not God sent.
Contrary to popular belief, we cannot run a $14 trillion economy like a kitchen table budget; whereas we don't have to defend his country, repair the infrastructure, or perhaps take a chance now and then with a space program.
That is just my opinion; I don't pretend to be a fiscal conservative; nor do I want to be one but I think they have a prominent place in our decision-making; but they are not the only voice.
Actually that comment was directed to Arlewill, when he mentioned the financial crisis of the 70s. It was a matter of fact statement or a tit-for-tat.
Not exactly, Congress knew that the tax cuts and Medicare part D would add to the deficit (CBO told them so) and I don't remember posters yelling "the deficit, the budget, the children, and how are we going to pay for it?” Like it or not, prove or disprove, the Congressional Budget Office said this would lower the deficit. If the numbers came out in the opposite direction, the fiscal conservative blue dog Democrats would not have voted for the bill. That’s the difference.
I remember what Iraq combat veteran, Democratic Congressman Murphy said the other day "When I saw that the first thing we did in Iraq was to set up free health care for the Iraqis, I wondered why that wasn't so in the United States." ……I'm paraphrasing
I just finished reading your post from last night and will take some time to explain why I think health care is a right; not a privilege…. That is my viewpoint; mock it if you wish but that is my belief…I may be the only one in America that feels this way and I may be entirely wrong.
In my lifetime, I have seen government waste, whether it is tax breaks for the wealthy, Corporate and individual war welfare, war profiteering, yet we do nothing for the uninsured. I cannot devise a spreadsheet to show where it would be economically feasible in this current environment but debts and deficits will be part of the budget for a long time. It was no secret that the Democrats ran on a modified universal health care platform; the voters had it high on their list before the financial crash of 2008. In the 20 plus debates the Democrats had; health care was a high priority. The voters made their choice; call them uninformed and stupid if you wish but that is just an opinion; not a fact. Medicare part D is pretty popular and the current bill should fix the donut hole; the previous bill left. People seem to forget status quo was not sustainable; at the current rate of increase the price of premiums were going to be out of the price range of individuals and companies. Then what? Year 2014, Congress takes up the issue again but this time, $940 billion will hardly be enough.
Tax breaks for small companies is call investing in America, fine, but I think we must always invest in our people, not in handouts but a helping hand, with education and health care. I think we will see the dividends.
Mike said: "I still don't know why fiscal conservatives didn't ring the alarm bell when we were engaged in two wars, yet we passed two tax cuts for the wealthy and a $7 trillion prescription drug bill, that were not paid for."
There's only a small handful of fiscal conservatives in Congress, and they were "ringing the alarm bell" before/while those events unfolded. Sure, many refer to themselves as fiscal conservatives, but what's that worth when most behave like Big-Government corporatists with God complexes?
"I still don't know why fiscal conservatives didn't ring the alarm bell when we were engaged in two wars, yet we passed two tax cuts for the wealthy and a $7 trillion prescription drug bill, that were not paid for."
We get it, everyone agrees, Bush is an idiot. Thanks for pointing that out again, and that Medicare Part D was a mistake, a bipartisan mistake I might add.
So I guess you would have to say the recent vote for "healthcare reform" is also a mistake for the same reasons, right?
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
Thanks Factual,I saved it but I was not that surprised.:-)Very informative.
Jhnsn283I'm sure it was a brilliant post filled with truth but unfortunately by the time I got to it. It went poof.....I guess being deleted is a badge of honor for some.
You are right,people have been leery of the federal government for a long time but prior to 1980, about 75% of the people trusted the government. Schoolchildren practice hiding under their desks as a routine drill just in case the evil empire attacked us.Today, only about 17% trust the government.
I agree there is justified anger out there but some divide it uniquely between the government and Wall Street.
I think you honestly believe that everyone thinks like you do; and there is no room for a different opinion.
You quoted President Wilson..I will quote Leo Tolstoy…1897
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted man if he is not formed an idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot make clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.
TXwader said “Ugh Mike...that's some of the most biased writing I've seen done in the Advocate...did that idiot Pelosi teach you how to be blind to the facts and to spin a yarn to the people?”
Lol…Bias is what the other guy writes that I don't agree with… You would be more credible if you would post the same time on the right wing blogs.:-)..In the Advocate? Really? Even more bias than the Hitler, birther, socialist, etc. references?
I believe it's still in my profile "I am a biased Democrat and I will write from a left of center position."…. If that is not enough I use a donkey for my avatar… I am not trying to pull the wool over anyone’s eyes. I may be wrong sometimes but I welcome your challenge but “cost of this booby trap” is a little vague and is based on an assumption.
BighornI am a serf but I guess “control” is in the eye of the beholder.
I don't believe we're in a debt spiral (I may be wrong) but I continue to see upticks in our economy. I couldn't believe investors are lining up to lend money to California because of its resilience and its reputation for innovation. At least that is what the financial prospectus(the ones I am reading) are saying.
You caught me by surprise but the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, are anyone else for that matter, cannot rewrite the Constitution.
I admit there are good arguments on both sides of this mandatory issue because on the other side you can make a case that the government forces hospitals to treat patients regardless if they can pay or not. I think you should also look at Federal Supremacy clause & federal preemption.
This is a no winner for the opposition because when push comes to shove the wording “mandate” can be changed to “tax” and we all know congress has the power to levy taxes.
I really don't disagree with you because I have not been completely convinced that eliminating the subsidy for Medicare Advantage will bring in X number of dollars because it only affects 22% of seniors. I'll really don’t think we can put a value on the savings through waste but if the other side can come up with a figure; I think the Democrats can come up with their own… You're right, we shall see.
I think it comes down to level of financial stress we can tolerate… Last time I looked we were at 25-30% of the debt to GDP and the Fed has not raised interest rates; meaning inflation is relatively low. We do have substantial debt but the world is in the same boat.
While I agree 1970 was a terrible year; I still don't know why fiscal conservatives didn't ring the alarm bell when we were engaged in two wars, yet we passed two tax cuts for the wealthy and a $7 trillion prescription drug bill, that were not paid for.
BTW If you remember way back in December, I didn't particularly care for the Senate version because it was a gift to the insurance companies. I keep saying we have to improve on this one but the Republicans will have larger numbers, so that will be next to impossible to do.
Now the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, John Conyers, has rewritten the Constitution. When asked by a reporter what was the Constitutional authority for the federal government to require citizens to purchase something they might not want to buy, hizzoner said: “Under several clauses, the good and welfare clause and a couple others. All the scholars, the constitutional scholars that I know -- I’m chairman of the Judiciary committee, as you know -- they all say that there’s nothing unconstitutional in this bill and if there were, I would have tried to correct it if I thought there were.”
HUH???? Evidently, the chairman has a different copy of the Constitution than I have. This is from the CHAIRMAN OF THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE. He's supposed to be the pro from Dover; he's the guy. The fool believes there are multiple clauses in the Constitution that say it's okay for the feds to REQUIRE citizens to purchase insurance that meets fed requirements or be fined -- as in you committed a crime by not buying the insurance so you're guilty and must pay a fine. I guess this is more change I can believe in.
MikeI hope you are right about the Healthcare Bill and with its passage we will find out. I have seen nothing to convince me that taking $500 billion from Medicare to pay for half this law will not affect senior citizens.I also remember the reckless spending by Congress in the 1970's and the hyperinflation that followed. There are no free lunches and we cannot spend our way out of debt. A worse senario is one where we reach unsustainable debt and the world abandons us.
Congrats on the win, Mike. For my part, I believe we are witnessing the further control by the ruling class over it's serfs.
Further to the point, I'm concerned that additional debt piled on the enormous US Government's mandates will push us closer to the death spiral of rising interest rates of the US taxpayer's liability to it's creditors. Will we see a lowering of the US Bond rating soon? Hope not. But if so, this "housing crisis" is going to look like cakewalk.
I wonder where in South America we will go for finest health care on the planet?
Ugh Mike...that's some of the most biased writing I've seen done in the Advocate...did that idiot Pelosi teach you how to be blind to the facts and to spin a yarn to the people?
I doubt this will hold up in the courts and I certainly hope it doesn't. More government intrusion into our lives and our businesses we do not need not to mention the cost of this booby trap. We don't have the money...geeze.
HEY... no surprise...comment was removed..it's hard to hear the truth....
Mike, I’m going to write this and I will get out of your hair.
The American people are anger because of big government, their not anti-government. This anger started quite sometime ago, well before Obama took office, he just happen to put the icing on the cake, because he favors big government, with the idea that government affords you rights, along with fact he truly believes government should be in every aspect of your life. He believes in wealth re-distribution. He believes you can take all of us that do have insurance and punish rest of us hard working American because 30 plus million do not have insurance, so they (Congress) decided to mandate this monster healthcare plan. Obama and Congress defied the will of the people over healthcare it was clear and unequivocal that the American people did not want his healthcare plan.
Woodrow Wilson stated; “a leaders ears must ring with the voices of the people.”
The arrogance of this President, Pelosi and Reid for defying the will of the people is absolutely no worse than those folks that made so called jesters or slurs, during their walk to the Capital, I haven’t seen any prove of that information, and so I don’t know.
As far as this healthcare bill there are so many hiding costs that were not in this bill, IRS, doctors being paid, the budget for HHS on and on. There is no way this cannot add to the deficit. I don’t know why the CBO did not include any of that. They can only score what Pelosi or Waxman sent them, again not being honest about the full cost.
Then there is the rush to get this done, what a joke, this does not even go into effect until 2014, again it goes back to the arrogance of Pelosi and the Obama administration. The bottom line is if you’re going to deify the will of the people it is time to be removed or impeached, but we will rise up and we the people, will take control of our government once again…
The Massachusetts state comptroller said the state is going bankrupt. He said they are solvent only because of massive federal aid. His prediction - federal healthcare will be in the same shape by 2018. Their solution to this fubarred mess - wait for it - "cram down" yeah that's right, don't pay the providers the real costs they incur. Nothing like price controls - they've worked so well throughout history. As we speak eight hospitals in the state are going bankrupt. Yeah Mike, I know they are "working" on a solution, gosh I can just hear that big sigh of relief.
It's interesting that healthcare is now a right, excuse me for asking but what other "right" requires us to take massive amounts of the public's money and arbitrarily give it to some other group of people - there are none in the Constitution. Surely this is not the only "welfare right" - why I heard them say a college education is a right. I would imagine electricity will soon be a right along with food, housing, whatever - they're all coming, all aboard! All we have to do is find someone to pay for all this garbage.
This is about power Mike, raw political power. You know what they say about absolute power, be careful what you wish for.
Massachusetts has taken the initiative to curb their costs but it's pretty hard in this economy but:
The Massachusetts program is popular. About 70 percent of doctors and 59 percent of residents support the initiative, according to a poll released Thursday by the Harvard School of Public Health. By even larger margins, physicians and patients said they want the law to remain.
The health-care reform bill that was signed into law was modeled after the Massachusetts plan which has known cost problems.
About 90% of the residents of Massachusetts like the plan and their legislators are working on the fixes.
On Massachusetts healthcare , things started going bad in 2007, and look even worse this 2010...
Excess (deficiency) of revenues and other financingsources over expenditures and other financing uses......................... (469,180)
Fund balance (deficit) at beginning of year........................................ 509,723Fund balance (deficit) at end of year................................................... $ 40,543http://www.mass.gov/Aosc/docs/reports...
Amounts in thousands, 2008 data last available.
Of the approximately 153,000 enrolled in Commonwealth Care as of March 1, 2010, about 65,000 contribute toward the monthly cost of premiums, and the remainder receives free coverage. In addition, there are currently 25,000 enrolled in the Commonwealth Care Bridge program, which is for certain legal immigrants who lost coverage in the traditional Commonwealth Care program this fiscal year.
There are also approximately 99,000 new members in MassHealth, the state Medicaid program, since the inception of healthcare reform.
Massachusetts healthcare is doing real well. It is obvious.
You are right on this one. "DO as I say, not what I do" mess from some people. They need to be called out on that.
Who? One of the candidates for Mayor is one.
Stay on subject is what BSspotter advised me...Don't make me.:-)
Who is "whining, being paranoid, and suggesting revolt"?
I maybe agaisnt the Health Care Bill, but I will never, ever support any of the "Pauls". People in this area need to stop whining, being paranoid, and sugessting revolt.
I’m referring to you being paranoid about being deleted from this blog.
Were you mad when the Fourth amendment was circumvented?…. The government is allowed to set up their surveillance; 72 hours later ,they can get their warrant.
Lol…. First of all, I don't know that Al Sharpton said that, but even if he did, why should you care?Why is that important?
The GOP lost the last two elections, lost the issue and now litigation is a tactic of a last resort… To be honest, I don't like the mandates, Obama ran against Hillary’s mandates but that's what it took…. Again, Massachusetts has a mandate…Check it out; all attorneys suing the government; are Republicans…Who knows they might win but Health Care Reform is law and another method will be used.
Mike,First off I’m not paranoid, I’m mad because the constitution is being dismantled by this administration one piece at a time and as it stands after the last vote of 219 others that voted for this unconstitutional healthcare monster.
Sunday Rev. Al Sharpton called Obama a socialist, and “the American public over whelming voted for socialism”. So let’s tell it like it is, let’s refrain from hiding the truth about this President and Congress. How about honesty and integrity for which there is none. Pelosi called it historic, disasters are historic too.
Now 14 states have filed a law suit in federal court today. I think they will set a milestone with these cases, because at no time in American history has the government ever required the people to purchase anything.
First do not be so paranoid; you have never given me a reason to delete you. You usually delete yourself.
I've mentioned over and over and over that in the House the Democrats have 52 conservative Democrats known as blue dogs…. I heard Mr. Stupak say the speaker had 216 votes before the deal was cut with him; so 3 blue dogs were in waiting in case they were needed. It's an election year; most of those 34 resided in conservative districts that John McCain won.
I am going to stay away from name calling: labels.
Mike, if I may, I think folks who are unhappy should help this US Senator get elected:www.victoriaadvocate.com/weblogs/para...
Put your money where your mouth is!
Mike,You failed to mention the 34 real democrats that were smart enough to not vote yes. A bill that does nothing but take away rights of the American people. The other socialist that walk arm in arm through the unruly crowd; they should have finished the job and marched their sorry stinking you what’s right out of Washington DC…
There is no democrat party any more; it is the left wing or socialist party… You think this debate is over, it has only begun…
If you wish Delete button
As you well know,I am not an attorney but I as I understand it; an individual's rights have to be violated(mandate) before it can be heard...
Massachusetts has a mandate; I have not heard of a case being brought against them.
The states may have a different issue but the federal government already requires that hospitals to treat patients; regardless of pay,so is mandate that far off?I don't know.
I heard last night that a move against the mandate might have to wait until it actually happens. Do you know anything about that?
Damage is subjective but after Friday, all remedies left to the opposition will be exhausted...IMO
In other words the damage is done live with it and move on to getting it corrected in the future.