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Yes You will regret your question. I hope you will REPENT !!!!!!!! The National ID has NO VALUE only to allow the state to know my business. Before you open your mouth and ask about Social Security, Passport driver’s license or a license of any sort. Having a Social Security Card is a choice, because I CHOOSE TO WORK. I have a driver’s license because I CHOOSE TO DRIVE. I have a license to pratice my profession BECAUSE I EARN IT!!!!!!!!!!!! I choose to have a Passport, because I can choose to leave a jungle called United States of America.
I though you were a Libertarian, WWW. I though Libertarians believe in less government inclusion. This proves you are more about yourself than the rights of man.
JohnThat's why I'm through discussing the subject no matter how enticing it may be to correct all the myths and misinformation being thrown out there .It's impossible to penetrate hate... It's like watching a race to post the most outrageous and offensive post; yet not going far enough to get deleted.
I don't think we have to agree on any subject as long as we concentrate on the subject rather than ad Hominem.
BTW:Like some of us do from time to time, I think you let your emotions get the best of you and you countered with outrageous over the top statements. You usually have more willpower than that....IMO
Mike, when addressing some people, keep in mind this song "Beer is good, God is great, and people are crazy".
We don't always see eye to eye on things, but, perhaps on this we do.
Mike, In reference to employer sanctions enforcement it did work, actually it was working so well companies were complaining. INS back then had special units set up just to investigate employers to enforce compliance of the law. INS did have sole authority over those investigations. The biggest fine that was sought was 1.3 million in 1993 on a Mexican restaurant chain out of Houston. The company settled for about half of the initial fine.
In 1996 President Clinton stops most all of the employer sanctions enforcement because of complaints. Employer sanctions are now under the Labor Department. Forum I-9 is still in place anyone who applies for employment must fill out the forum whether you are a U.S. citizen or not. I do agree we do not need ant type of National ID card, the I-9 is already there.
Revenge politics had nothing to do with Governor Perry; I was applying it to the state of Arizona.
Yes the out-of -control border has been going on for decades but it became unsustainable about eight years ago; I don't remember it being a problem of this magnitude prior to 9/11.
You keep saying that President Obama and the democrats will benefit by making them all legal citizens hoping they will all vote Democrat;at some future date. In a political sense; that is not so because those that remain are not in the least bit interested in politics. They will do the menial jobs but that's about all. You will see when the subject of illegal immigration comes up once again; the hateful rhetoric on the right will make the American Hispanic voters to split and never consider the Republican Party. i.e. Governor Pete Wilson in California. Governor Wilson got elected but the GOP was regulated to minority status in California for a long time. President Bush received about 40% of the Hispanic vote but John McCain departure from the comprehensive immigration reform bill he sponsored allowed President Obama to get about 60% of the Hispanic vote. The hateful rhetoric of talk radio contributed to last bill not being passed.Most Hispanic voters want immigration reform (according to the polls) but despise hateful rhethoric whether it's about Mexicans,Cubans,or Columbians,it's not because they are liberals. That's why Dick Armey was angry because the Tea Party he was reprsenting had Tom Tancredo as a keynote speaker. He warned the Tea Party to stay away from this issue. The GOP will ensure democrat victories in the future because they are not diverse ,nor do they show any interest in doing so. The party is being pulled to the far right and this country is not there. It's smack dab in the middle.
Anyway, this is an emotional issue which will never be resolved because people go to their respective camps and stay there. I have never been for restaurants, agriculture, or other industries getting worker exemptions; if it's a free market they shouldn't have to rely on exemtions & subsides. I also believe it will take about 10 to 12,000,000 immigrants to do the menial work in order to keep our prices low and for the companies to remain profitable. If we get rid of all 12,000,000; we will need to the immediately import the labor because we have an aging work force. I don't know this for fact but I believe a government agency ,somewhere, is keeping us from making any irrational decision of making massive raids causing our companies to shut down; putting a big dent on our economy.
Anyway it's 3:15, no minds were changed, and we drifted from the national ID card. I am still amazed that the national ID card issue was less controversial than illegal immigration.
Mike...The land mine thing was mostly tongue in cheek -- guess it didn't show, BUT I did say that it wouldn't work because of the threat to livestock.
Truly, I had never heard that illegals could attend Texas universities and pay an in-state tuition rate. I can't keep up with everything. Perry signed the bill, though. That's ONE reason I think he should not be re-elected. Do you remember the Trans-Texas Corridor land grab he pushed? Do you remember that he wanted to use a Spanish company to build the roadways and collect the tolls? That's another reason I will not consider voting for him. Do you remember him making speeches about Texas seceeding from the US? As proud as I am of my Texas heritage, I am an American first, last and always. Anyway, that's one more reason Perry will not get my vote. Call it revenge or anything you like, I can't vote for Perry any more than I could vote for BO.
The border control thing has been going on for decades and all sorts of "fixes" have been tried. Nothing has worked and I don't think anything short of physically sealing the border by whatever means ever will work. No, I don't think we'll ever get all the illegals out of the country, but we can try a heck of a lot harder than we are trying now. I do believe in my heart of hearts that BO wants to make all the illegals citizens, hoping that they will all vote democrat thus ensuring democrat victories in the future.
WaywardwindNo disrespect but I did not read your cut and paste because that is old stuff that is being recycled and I knew Governor Perry was just enforcing what the Supreme Court ruled on, way back in 1981 or so. I thought you we're just letting off some steam.
My definition of revenge politics is just retaliation without trying to find a workable solution. Again I go back to that " reasonable suspicion" the police officers will be expected to use or they could be sued by the citizens for non compliance. Will the city/state pay the police officers legal fees if they violate someone civil rights or refuse to violate someone's civil rights? The Feds are better equipped to deal with the everyday illegal immigration problems. Ultimately , Congress has to settle this issue. The police officers will get about 90 days of training whereas it's the only responsibility our border patrol has.
We tried piecemeal legislation in the 1980s when President Reagan gave amnesty to one million illegal immigrants but the companion bill ,Simpson-Mazzoli, which required strong employer sanctions, was never enforced. One bite at a time will not work; you will be frustrated for the rest to your life. I have never said deportation was harsh but you did say laying out land mines should be an option.I guess colateral damage would not mean anything such as innocent deer,vacationers, jouralist or law enforcement...The end justifies the means.
The national ID card has been a goal since 1971, the Bush administration tried to insert it into a defense supplement bill; so to say curbing illegal immigration will be its primary function, is just not so. Some did not factor in the cost of the healthcare bill with the mandate; for some it was unconstitutional. You know , sealing our borders will continue to increase the deficit and debt but it will pay off in the long run....Hmmm... That's what I say about Health Care. It's all about priorities.
Code...I'm not trying to be intentionally thick -- perhaps I'm just having a "senior moment" but explain to me what the government requiring citizens to buy health insurance they may not want and increasing the national debt by almost a trillion dollars has to do with closing the border and issueing ID cards to help control illegal immigraton. If you tell me that the national ID system will cost another trillion dollars, then I'll be against that, too.
Mike...Once again, perhaps I'm suffering from a senior moment that's lasting an hour, but I'm not sure what you mean by revenge politics. If you mean that by believing that Rick Perry and some members of the legislature should be fired in the next election for their part in allowing people who are in the country illegally to attend state universities and pay the lower state residence tuition, then I plead guilty. There are several reasons I think Perry should be fired; this is just one. You said the republicans don't have a plan to deport 12,000,000 people. You're right, they don't, but we need to start. You deport twelve million people the same way you eat an elephant -- one bite at a time. Putting HR managers and company presidents who hire illegals in jail is a good starting point. Let companies know that there's a new policy in place -- one that enforces the immigration laws. Dry up the job sources and maybe, just maybe some of the illegals will go back home. The rest, when we find'em, deport'em. It's only harsh if you're illegal, but, a lot of people who are caught doing illegal things go to jail. In comparison, sending them back home doesn't seem so bad.
I agree we may all beat our our chest,complain and moan but we will all have make arrangements to get ours, if that is the route they choose.
When I retired I forgot to send a copy of my drivers license to the home office and they followed procedure and did not mail me my first pension check...I then realized they did not care how long I worked for them;procedure is procedure...I got two checks the next month after I complied but I had to hear my wife remind me of my mistake for 30 days.
CodeYou make a good point, during the health care debate several were against the mandate on constitutional grounds but a national ID card mandate would be OK if it curbs illegal immigration. It all depends on what you mean by mandate...lol
I was surprised with some of the responses because I would've thought that this county would have been a 99%.." not only know but........"
Some of the same posters said the health care bill was crammed down our throats on a partisan vote but the Arizona law was passed by conservative republicans. They are some differences since 70% of Arizonians like the new law. I've been hearing that the Gallup poll and the New York Times poll state that 60% of all Americans approved of the new law. This morning I heard a representative from Politico say that most of the respondents were white and resided in the south and southwest.
As I read your post, it seems to me you are centered on the politics of revenge and the end justifies the means. It seems like you will sign on to anything to make your pet peeve go away. I guess we all do that from time to time.
Believe it or not, I'm frustrated that we have not solved this illegal immigration problem in the past eight years. This issue has been debated on television, radio, documentaries and all types of media; most come to one conclusion; this is the fault of our broken immigration policy, employers who are violating our employment laws and of course those who enter our country illegally or overstay their visa. I like to start at the top and it seems to me you like to start the bottom to fix the problem. I heard Janet Napolitano say that border guards are arresting less people trying to cross the border illegally and as a whole illegal immigration has gone down by by 15%, due to our weak economy. If that's true that it seems like an all out war against the employers would do the most good; rather than piecemeal, revenge politics. It's worth repeating that the last administration had a real good illegal immigration policy that had 18 months of border security first but the Republican Party made it all about the amnesty; without a plan on how to deport 12,000,000 people.
I'm sure you know that the national ID card will be just one step of many in an effort to pass a comprehensive immigration policy.
I would be curious to hear the opinions of those who are against mandated health care, would they be also against a mandated, government run ID system?
Thanks Legion357, as you pointed out, the national ID program goes way beyond illegal immigration because it can be a valuable tool for law enforcement, paramedics, emergency rooms and other first respondents. On the other hand identity theft will be able to wreck havoc on your personal life.
If we ever get the national identification card, I think it will be done over the years in measured steps.
1. It would be accepted as a mandatory workplace identification.2. Welfare, Medicaid, Medicare,VA and other recipients of the Federal government payments will be required to have a national ID card; including Federal employees, legislators, military and Federal contract workers.3. That won't leave many without a national ID card, making it easier to require everyone to have one.
I don't know but I believe that's the way the security card was put in place and then the abuse,thefts, and other problems began a long time afterward. We still need to fix our outdated Social Security database because at last count we had about six million people that overstayed their visa because we had no way to track them.
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Rebecca..."Please tell me how that is fair."
Well, of course it's NOT fair. There is a sage saying: "You can't cure stupid, but you CAN vote it out of office."
rebeccayour son should go get his license in the state where he wants to go to school so that he can qualify as a citizen of that state faster!
Writein I stand by my statement that they are no right or wrong answers on this subject but I would just wanted you to clarify the word " oppressed" because in this country that is a state of mind.
Did you mean the old Soviet bloc " oppressed," a Tea Party version of it, many people will lose their job over it, just another piecemeal solution by the government, or none of the above?
I think it has a slim chance of passing but it would take several years to implement a massive problem like this ; not to mention the cost but on the other hand the larger corporations have already started buying readers for their work identification cards.
That's not fair. My son wants to go to an out of state college and he wouldn't qualify for in-state tuition there. But, we will allow non-citizens to qualify for in-state tuition? That is WRONG. Please tell me how that is fair.
Okay, I've just changed my mind about a national ID card to fight the problems with illegal immigrants. It won't do any good! This story from the Houston Chronicle this morning:
"COLLEGE STATION — The Texas A&M University student senate has deferred action on a proposal to put it on record as opposing in-state tuition for illegal immigrants.
The panel voted 34-19 Tuesday night to send the bill back to its external affairs committee.
The Eagle of Bryan-College Station reports the action came after two hours of debate.
One of the bill's 10 co-sponsors, Justin Pulliam, said, "This isn't a financial issue. This is about what's right and what's fair. It isn't fair to out-of-state citizens who are here legally."
But according to student senator Taylor Barron, "This is an immigration issue. It does not belong in the student senate."
Illegal-immigrant residents of Texas have qualified for in-state tuition at state universities under a 2001 Texas law."
Now, I don't have kids so I don't pay much attention to tuition rates and didn't know that the Texas legislature had passed such a bill and Gov. Goodhair had signed it into law. This is one of the most outrageous things I ever heard of. So, I guess that trying to fight the tide of illegals is a losing proposition. We need to find who voted for this bill and remember Perry signed it so that on election day, we can thank them properly.
A national ID will maybe slow illegal immigration, but I doubt it stops it. Administering a national ID for 310 million people will be quite a task. Will you have to show some form of ID to get a card in the first place?
The closest thing we have to a national ID card now is social security. Judging by all the identity theft I would guess this system is full of holes and massive fraud.
Whatever we do it starts with sealing our border. Even this is not going to be easy. How do you stop people that are willing to risk their lives to get here along with gun toting criminals and drug runners?
Writein..."NATIONAL ID equals OPPESSION."
Okay, Writein, I know I'll probably regret this, but how do you figure THAT? What is there about being able to identify yourself that means you're oppressed?
Ooops, maybe that was confusing. I had to show a picture ID with my maiden name and not with my married name. A twenty year old college ID was the only thing I could find with my picture AND my maiden name. Who keeps that type of thing? Isn't that silly?
I have a scuba card! I'm sure it's outdated but taking scuba as my P.E. in college was fun. ;) ;) ;) Passports are good for ID and so are old college IDs. When the Patriot Act flagged me THE ONLY ID that was accepted by the ss admin was an old SWT (college) ID. I had to prove who I was before I was married and not who I was now.
HECK NO. NATIONAL ID equals OPPESSION.
www... Praise God. I have found common ground with you. Good reasoning, and good post. I know many hispanics think the Arizona law is targeting them, but I know several hispanics who have no problem with the new law. The USA ID card may help us all because it looks like our country is going to be targeted my the Muslim extremists for many years to come, not to mention illegals from many countries sneaking in for whatever reason.
Mike, I wouldn't object to the national ID card with biometric information. A few years ago, I would have, but I've changed my mind. I believe that it would help prevent people who aren't supposed to vote from voting. When I moved to Victoria in 1993, I went to the DPS office to update my drivers license. The lady behind the desk asked me if I wanted to register to vote also. There was no request to verify that I was a citizen. Like you, I like being American and the demand for "papers" sends shivers down my spine, but I don't worry about having to prove my citizenship at every step and turn. I don't worry about being tracked in my travels, because I don't think anything as ineffecient as the government could do that with almost 300million citizens and legal aliens. I don't mind proving my citzenship when necessary, however. I'm going to need to renew my expired passport one of these days. A passport has always been a good proof of citizenship document but it's kinda awkward to carry around, sorta like a birth certificate. The ID card would fit in a pocket in your wallet. I don't look upon proving my citizenship as a burden. I look on the card as something that someone who's NOT supposed to be here will have a hard time obtaining and thus make it easier to run them out of the country. If it would make those who think they'll be profiled under laws like Arizona's happy, I'll be glad to have a traffic cop ask to see my ID card along with my drivers license and insurance card if I end up contributing to the revenue of the city/state. Maybe if the cops ask for proof of citizenship from everybody they stop, the whining about profiling will stop. It'd be worth a little inconvenience to catch the illegals. The thing that poppa oscars me is that all this is the fault of the illegals in the first place.
If you tattoo 666 you will need to get your money back. The correct number is 616
"In May 2005, it was reported that scholars at Oxford University using advanced imaging techniques had been able to read previously illegible portions of the earliest known record of the Book of Revelation (a 1,700 year old papyrus), from the Oxyrhynchus site, Papyrus 115 or P115, dating one century after Irenaeus. The fragment gives the Number of the Beast as 616 (χ ι ϛ), rather than the majority text 666"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Well, let's see..... Driver's license - check, SS card - check, CHL license - check, Pilot's license - check, Hunter Safety Card - check, ILEETA Certification - Check, blood type card - check.Expired coupon to Home Depot - check.Dang, my wallet is pretty thick. From the looks of it, "the man" has all my personal information, finger prints, background information anyway. At this point, what difference does it make? Might as well have a National ID card. Hey, can I trade all of these in for just one card? Maybe my left butt check would match my right one!X
Mike. Tongue in cheek, but if the Dems suggested we all get 666 tattoed on our skin to help ID us, you would find reason to support the idea.
Anything that gives the government, that includes the local, state and national the ability to track you when and where they wish is n o good. it reminds me of Germany (1920's to 1940"s) Russia until the 1980's. Some one out there would figure out a way to use the system against you, me and us and for themselves.
I get chills up and down my spine thinking that a VPD cop with a GED diploma could look up my information for his own use.
I don't know, as pointed out, a national ID has advantages and disadvantages.
A SS card is used as ID these days and it was never intended to be used for ID purposes.
One thing I wonder about, and Mike you hinted at it, would have to do with medical data. I know this will sound like a conspiracy nut concern but...
Suppose somehow a national ID becomes required. As you mentioned criminals always catch up to technology ( wink wink).
So to counter counterfeiting, a DNA sample is required and stored on the National ID card and stored in a data base somewhere. That would be great for LE agencies on one hand but bad for them on another.
On the plus side, everyones DNA would be on file to solve crimes, but it would also open LE up to all falsely convicted persons in custody much more quickly than the 10 years + that it has taken some of them to clear themselves.
I know DNA testing takes time and is expensive, but as technology continues to advance, IMO, testing will become even faster and less expensive. After all today it takes much less time and expense than it did originally.
Again, another advantage and disadvantage or visa versa depending on which side you are on.
So I still don't know if national ID would be good or bad.
Flip a coin? lol
I don't really think it's that important if we agree; it's the discussion that matters... An old boss of mine used to say if all 10 of you come up with the same answer; then probably nine of you are not thinking.
I don't like the CAD system that list the property value,taxes paid or owed, or information they can be obtained without your prior knowledge and permission. On the other hand, I just hand over my credit card to the clerk, driver's license to be copied at the hospital, and my social security number to just about anyone who requires it.
That's why I say there are no right or wrong answers; my ID And privacy have been abused for many many years,
I presume you are against it but a microchip is not a good comparison..IMO The government will not monitor your steps (I don't think) ...Where this might only have a 20% chance of passing; A microchip would only have about -20% chance.
HAHA How about implanting a microchip instead?
lol..The GOP battle cry created by Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal and in case rightly used..IMO
not just "No" but HELL NO