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The issue is trying to sleep.
Writein....Yeah, you'd be wrong. The US military doesn't go goat huntin' for klukers and haven't been nazi huntin' since 1945 in Germany.
You said this, “If you can't tell the sheep from the goats, sometimes the sheep get hurt when our troops go goat huntin'. Oops.”
What if the discussion was about the KKK or the Nazis instead of Muslims; would I be wrong if I say what you had said?????? I humbly expect your answer.
As far as Juan Williams, NPR is wrong for firing him despite that I considered him a sellout long before this problem. Why is this a news story?
One last post to put this issue to rest..... After watching all the Sunday talk shows; I've come to the conclusion that most thought that NPR handled the situation badly.... NPR played right into the hands of Roger Ailes and Fox news.... This issue was about FOX and NPR..... E.J. Dion said it best when he said" NPR should have met with Juan Williams face to face, and issued an ultimatum...Fox News or NPR."
Mike, I had a day off on 9-11 and ended up glued to the TV. I can tell you the precise minute my attitude changed toward muslims. I don't remember if it was later that day or the next day when I saw a news story from some middle eastern country. There were hundreds of people celebrating in the street and a woman dressed in some kind of blue thing was front and center. Her tongue was vibrating back and forth like a tuning fork and the strangest caterwalling I ever heard was coming from her. She was dancing and making that weird sound while she was celebrating the muslim victory over the Great Satan. It was at that precise moment that my feelings changed. That one women did more than 19 terrorists on board those airliners to change my feelings toward muslims.
Itisi asked how one goes about telling the difference between al-qaeda members and muslims who aren't. I've wondered the same thing since the al qaeda are a bunch of cowardly thugs (they remind me of street gangs with upgraded weapons) who don't wear uniforms and hide among "civilians." If you can't tell the sheep from the goats, sometimes the sheep get hurt when our troops go goat huntin'. Oops.
What to fear? Capture by the Taliban or Al Qaeda or 150 years ago capture by the Comanches - you laugh they raided Victoria August 6, 1840 killed a dozen, wounded many, and made off with hundreds of horses.
“I was at work when 9/11 occurred and shouldn't be a surprise that I heard things that would not be allowed in this forum.... It was then that I started getting interested in the Middle East situation. I read "The Looming Tower: al Qaeda and the Road to 9/11.".... That's where I decided to separate the brain washed mindset of Al Qaeda from other Muslims.... There is no difference between 89-year-old James Von Brunn who attacked the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC and members of al Qaeda .... They are consumed with hate and there is no turning back for them. They've been fed a constant drip of propaganda... To them; death is victory.”
I would like to know how you separated the two; we’ve got the finest law enforcement agencies in the world trying to figure out what you have just described. I want to know how you can tell the difference between Al-Qaeda member and a Muslim?
That might be a lesson for all of us... Don't you think?
I can't believe you went there.. :-)
Mike, 75 mph in a cab? =P
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Hello John, I've never come close to that situation but fear to me is driving in heavy fog or in very heavy thunderstorm with zero visibility...... throw in snakes for good measure.
I separate al Qaeda from Muslim- Americans and I still don't know what Muslim garb is, but if that scares anyone; you will be in constant fear in New York City. Then again those people might not be afraid to drive in dense fog or heavy thunderstorms... They might be the ones passing me at 75 miles per hour.
Have a good one
waywardwind, welcome to the club, that's what old timers do; we shoot from the hip; then come back and try to clean it up...lol
I was at work when 9/11 occurred and shouldn't be a surprise that I heard things that would not be allowed in this forum.... It was then that I started getting interested in the Middle East situation. I read "The Looming Tower: al Qaeda and the Road to 9/11.".... That's where I decided to separate the brain washed mindset of Al Qaeda from other Muslims.... There is no difference between 89-year-old James Von Brunn who attacked the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC and members of al Qaeda .... They are consumed with hate and there is no turning back for them. They've been fed a constant drip of propaganda... To them; death is victory.
It looks like Juan Williams is making all the news shows and he will stand in for Bill O'Reilly tonight, so maybe now that they have unlocked the handcuffs, we might see a different Juan Williams.
Mike...I'm very sorry you think I was mocking you by saying you're nicer than I am. I recognize that I can be an ornery ol' cuss who sometimes shoots from the hip. While it may not be in my DNA, I did say that trying to change my opinion was like trying to change from being right-handed to a lefty. (Uh oh. I just realized that was right vs left comment. I meant it in the physical sense). Please believe me when I say I was not mocking you. I have too much respect for your intellignece an passion to do something like that. I still disagree with you quite often, though.
There is no need for you to respond to my opinion of NPR unless you just want to. It wasn't bait; it was an opinion, and like certain bodily orifices, everybody has'em. I don't listen to NPR -- don't think I ever have -- and I don't listen/watch Fox News on anything like a regular basis. I do know who Juan Williams is because I've seen him on Fox about a half-dozen times. I've liked and respected him for his ability to stand up to those who disagree with him. He's always seemed to be intelligent and able to hold his own in debate. It may indeed have been a business decision to fire him, but I think it was a poor one. I can't imagine anyone thinking that Williams, by saying what he said, was somehow putting NPR in a bad light. But, at the end of the day, the people who run NPR can fire whomever they please.
Thank you very much,justataxpayer..I don't know what to say except you made my morning...Thanks
Kyle C, you and Mike are on the same page that is obvious, but when you get so far left of center you have to raise your hand to be noticed. It is normally because of the lack of objectivity and unable to draw parallels to have an honest debate on any given subject, due, mainly to the partisan membership you contribute too or ideology. We are all guilty of that. But one of the reasons I liked Juan Williams (the liberal), is he’s able to draw that parallel without presenting his ideology so that there can be an honest debate and put partisan BS aside. NPR lost a well educated communicator… NPR is part of that eat your own liberal establishment mentality that will kick you to the curb if you fall from their ideology or progressive platform. George Soros, will make sure there is water under their boat and maybe throw another 1.8 million into the pot♠
Exactly my point, a different view does not make any one less human but journalist are taught to keep their opinions to themselves because we live in a superficial world.
I'm saying you have to know where that line is but you should make compromises while keeping your principles. That's where the learning comes in, and yes, sometimes you have to fight for it.
I'm human too. I also said (meant) that when someone shares a fear, it might mean they want other perspectives. So, thank you for that, Mike.
And by "us," I meant people who care more about understanding and educating than drawing lines or adhering to the lines being drawn by others.
I'd rather learn than fight.
It is my opinion that you lost your objectivity(US) when you you took a position...i.e.People are being fired because of their political associations or because they appear on a network that doesn't line up with a certain ideology?.... That's a position of NPR was wrong no matter what was in the contract between Juan Williams and NPR.
You see how easy it is and the reason journalist should not appear on partisan networks; left or right?
I'm trying to find an US. I'm probably just an "us" of one. =P
"Mike. Because what you are describing is the mindset, not of the conservative, but of people obsessed with politics and who possess an "US VS THEM" mentality. Fanatics.
No, there is an obvious mindset difference in tackling environmental, financial, and foreign policy issues between liberal/progressive, moderates, and conservatives.... I don't see anything wrong with that. Perhaps we don't need the labels but it helps in analyzing where person is coming from.
Extremism speaks for itself;it doesn't need describing.
Are there people or organizations out there who are just fed up with the Athens vs Sparta mentality? or is that some other mental Polis far far away? [Guess where we are in World History. (Not very deep into the subject, you might respond.)]
"As you all well know, we offer views of all kinds on your air every day, but those views are expressed by those we interview – not our reporters and analysts."...........Really?
It's a nice policy too bad they don't follow it - just ask Nina Totenberg.
Not really, before Rush Limbaugh,NPR was one of maybe two or three networks that were in charge of reporting the news....Rush Limbaugh came in with a different slant because he thought that the New Deal, the Great Society, Civil Rights legislation, affirmative action and the environmentalist were taking us to a liberal downfall... This generated interest among those that were not getting their views heard.... It took about 10 to 15 years for the division to gain foothold.... Now it is basically a US vs. Them mentality,if you let it.
I'm basically saying; "I know where you're coming from because I know the history of conservatism v NPR and what you perceive as the mainstream media."...... I'm saying lets get beyond that, by not getting swooped up this media blitz.... This issue is not that important, Juan Williams got a brand new $2 million contract and he will be free to speak his mind.
Being left of center is in my DNA; I bring that perspective to the table and I am upfront with it.... The country may be smack dab in the middle but I think it's healthy to argue a point from a partisan perspective. You don't have to wonder or lie.
That's not a justification, simply further examples of the same behavior across the board. I agree with NPR's actions just as I would agree with Fox if they fired an employee for disregarding company policy.
One can disagree with the policy but not the action.
When you have to justify something with, "They did it too..." It doesn't make a point, it proves you are the same. Keeping score encourages the "us vs them."
Precisely my point, Rebecca. When you work for a company you abide by their code of conduct and regulations, right? If you don't the company has no obligation to keep you on the payroll. Why should the company be castigated for adhering to its own policy? With freedom of speech comes the responsibility of understanding the ramifications of what you are saying. This seems like common sense to me.
Conservatives clamored for Helen Thomas to be ousted for her comments, Rick Sanchez was ousted from CNN for his comments. Why should it be any different for any other organizations?
Despite Mr Ailes words yesterday, Fox News no more protects Mr Williams freedom of speech than any other organization.
"I understand the conservative mindset,either you are for my line of thinking..." It goes both ways, Mike. Because what you are describing is the mindset, not of the conservative, but of people obsessed with politics and who possess an "US VS THEM" mentality. Fanatics.
I don't know what to make of your posts because on one hand, I guess you are mocking me, as being nicer than you are.... Having a different opinion doesn't make me any nicer.In your second post, I guess I'm supposed to respond to your opinion of NPR.
For the third time(not that it will resonate) in the main blog, I said I was surprised the group thought this issue was important... On the scale of 1 to 10,and 10 being of great importance, I think this is a 1. .... I have also said that I thought NPR was wrong for firing Juan Williams but I understood it was a business decision.
I understand the conservative mindset,either you are for my line of thinking or you're a liberal, but I think I understand where NPR is coming from..i.e. Brian Williams is never a guest on Keith Olbermann or the Rachel Maddow's show; if by some chance they do make an appearance, the host will not get a partisan answer from them. It may be a facade but journalists have to keep an appearance of objectivity....I imagine NPR had a problem with Juan Williams appearing on Hannity, Bill O'Reilly ,and Fox News Sunday..... Not long ago, Rick Sanchez was fired from CNN because he said"Jews control the media" but it got very little coverage... This just my opinion, but I think this is red meat for Fox's viewers, they will milk it for all they can get....NPR may be in are wrong but it brings up an old bogeyman the right-wing has been trying to get rid of NPR for years..... In all my adult years, I may have listened or watched NPR ,a total of three times... It seem like they were reading an AP article line for line...As for their funding, I heard someone say on Joe Scarborough this morning, that taxpayer money is a small part of their funding because they have a lot of other sources.
BTW liberals are supposed to be for diversity bla,bla,bla is condescending.... They are not subhuman just because they don't have a conservative mindset and they don't subscribe to group think.
It's ok. You don't work for NPR.
First my jingoistic statement that is broad sweeping and may or may not have any basis in fact: Trust conservatives to spin this as some infringement of freedom of speech and those half-witted dotards such as Palin, Gingrich and DeMint who are jumping on the "let's cut NPR's funding" bandwagon that show obvious little respect for an institution that has a code of conduct that Fox News wouldn't be able to comprehend since Roger Ailes' blackened soul is locked somewhere in a box on the seventh level of hell.
From the NPR internal memo:
"NPR News analysts have a distinctive role and set of responsibilities. This is a very different role than that of a commentator or columnist. News analysts may not take personal public positions on controversial issues; doing so undermines their credibility as analysts, and that’s what’s happened in this situation. As you all well know, we offer views of all kinds on your air every day, but those views are expressed by those we interview – not our reporters and analysts."
This couldn't be any clearer to me, well done NPR and congratulations to Fox News for acquiring another objective opinionator to replace the dusty token liberal seat that Colmes left vacant.
Gee, I thought all this time that liberals (like those who run NPR) are all FOR diversity and freedom of expression for everyone. I guess that they are for freedom of expression for everyone who thinks like they do. Tell me again why they are publically supported. How long would they be on the air if they had to compete for sponsor's dollars to pay the bills?
NPR likes to "maintain impartiality"???? What have you been smoking? Every time I listen to NPR, all I hear is high browed liberals that think that they are superior to the average joe. They are typical liberal democrats. They say that they are for the common man, but look down their noses at us. The democrat party is against the working man and woman. They are just lap dogs for billionaires like Soros.
Nice way to get a raise - perhaps I'm just cynical....
We are the dangerous radicals with our political correctness! Free radicals.
(That all sounded so dramatic.)
We have been at war with arabs, who are Muslims since 1948. Of couse we are apprehensive about Arabs and Muslims they want to kill Israelis and anyone who supports them - meaning us.
It has been a low level war that has been on an unsteady but escalating course with no end in sight. 911 is not the end of this war but just another chapter with maybe some different characters but the goal remains the same.
Juan Williams made a good point and not without reason - NPR has wanted to get rid of him since he started appearing regularly on Fox News, they just used this as an excuse.
I think it's sad that someone can't express their honest fears without getting fired. It's a confession of a fear because of a horrible act and a threat. You don't say it (your fear) because you think it's right or logical. You say it because you need some feedback or maybe someone to tell you that it will be ok and that you aren't alone... He was being human.
People are being fired because of their political associations or because they appear on a network that doesn't line up with a certain ideology? That's the worse kind of fear.
We don't need Muslims to destroy us. We are doing a fine job on our own.
Juan expressed the way he fells. He did not cause himself to feel that way. He realizes his fears are most likely groundless, but the image brings back feelings he has and cannot help. If you had ever seen a ferris wheel fall, you may think of it everytime you see a ferris wheel. 9/11 was traumatic and most people have some very panicky feelings regarding it. I don't think Juan should have been fired. I am hearing there may be a stop to the government funding to NPR. Good.
O'Reilly was on a tear that day on The View, he had already told Joy to be quiet and maybe she would learn something. He could have said something like, please let me complete my thought. So he got off to a bad start. Of course, they were wrong to leave the set, maybe not wrong to take such offense to what he said. Barbara was a class act with her statement that we should be able to listen to each other's views without such anger.
After watching CNN discussing the Juan Williams topic just a few seconds ago, a thought occurred to me.
If you are walking in the forest, heck even your front yard here in Texas, and you see a snake, be it poisonous or not, what is your first reaction?
If your like me, first you avoid it, then you get rid of it. If you happen to be out in the bush in Africa, any South American Country or Asian country, or even in the United States, and you see a Lion, Tiger, Panther, Bear or even a Pit Bull, what do you do?
You avoid them, they have been known to attack whether provoked or not and cause injury or death.
It is simply self preservation, it has been going on since our ancient relatives ran across the Saber Toothed Tiger.
If it looks like something that has injured, killed or maimed before, it is avoided or killed so it won't be a threat to others.
I know, save the Lions, save the Tigers, but these days the animals are not the most dangerous species on the planet.
Mike..."It's not that I am fearless but I view Muslims the same way I did before 9/11..."
You're a nicer person than I am. It shows. I've made no secret about how I feel about muslims since 9-11. Prior to that day, I honestly never thought much about them one way or the other. After that morning, I'm changed and trying to change the way I feel is like trying to change from being right-handed to a lefty. It ain't gonna happen.
Juan Williams worked for NPR, they did what they thought was best for NPR, that's about all there is to say.
As far as who is on a plane with a person, sure we all notice, there isn't much else to do. We all have our own thoughts.
I am not that paranoid and not that scared..It's not that I am fearless but I view Muslims the same way I did before 9/11....I don't criticize others if they have fear because I realize we are all different....That's my honest opinion...I have been on a airplane since 9/11 and I didn't look around ,looking for what could happen.....We even kept our Sept. 17,2001 reservation to Las Vegas and we even had our choice of seats because many canceled.
I don't think Juan William's ideology matters in this case...He was speaking as a human being;NPR didn't like what he said.....Fox just awarded him a new $1 million contract...Everyone is happy.
Juan Williams is a liberal guy, but he is honest and draws parallels within the topic of the debate. He made an honest analogy of reality that we’re human beings, and when something like 9/11 happens you do draw from fear. I don’t know about you, but I sure as heck look around on that airplane to see who might be there. Being complacent will come back to bite you. As far as telling my wife she is fat, that is not going to happen; I would hope that marriage is unconditional, as in she’s knows and you know the answer.
I believe NPR did not like Juan Williams appearing on a partisan network like Fox. They viewed it as a conflict of interest...... NPR likes to maintain their impartiality.... They put up with it but perhaps Juan Williams was on a short lease.... I don't know.
Having said that, I don't believe you will be off to a good day telling your wife that she looks fat in that outfit... It might be the truth BUT...... Closer to home, Juan Williams might have gotten upset if liz Cheney said she was scared of crossing the street because she noticed three black men at the corner..... What Juan did what could be considered as "furnishing too much info."... No one needs to know the inner thoughts of Juan Williams.... I don't think he should've been fired but that's a business decision and you really can't compare Bill O'Reilly to Juan Williams..... O'Reilly is known for notoriety.
One thing about O’Reilly he is a straight shooter, I do agree with him that political correctness has gone to far. It is sad that Juan Williams was at the forefront of O’Reilly’s topic of, “Muslims killed Americans”. In that setting Juan Williams was absolutely entitled to his thoughts and opinions. I like Juan Williams, he too is a straight shooter, and he is always fair. But to lose his job totally uncalled for. I still stand by the truth no matter what avenue is taken; you will be a better person. As far as the argument, Muslims did kill Americans it’s hard to spin that any other way♠