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That's true, and the 3:1 ratio was used by the president's bipartisan commission and gang of 6 (5 now) used the same ratio but Kent Conrad has a 1:1 ratio plan...I think the ratio has been all over the place.
The Joe Biden plan was supposed to be started from scratch and things went along quite nicely until tax revenues were mentioned.
You're right the money boys the debt limit will be passed.....
My understanding is that the $3 in cuts to $1 in revenue increase was the formula used in the Reagan 1982 tax increase.
Everything old is new again.
The Dow is still above 12,000.
Lawrence O'Donnell has been talking about the brilliant and political strategy the Obama Administration just pulled.
As a previously stated, the Obama Administration wanted a clean bill to raise the debt limit. They knew the right wing of the Republican Party wanted draconian cuts, no matter what it did to the economy. In the past, democrats used to go with a 1:1 ration of spending cuts to tax in spending cuts to tax increases. The White House knew that the republicans would never go against their tax pledge to Grover Norquist ,so they upped the ante to $3 in cuts to $1 in revenues. Eric Cantor played right into their hands by walking out of the talks when the White House insisted on tax revenues. Perception is everything, so now the country's saw the president willing to compromise(whether the entitlements were on the table or not) but saw the republicans acting like children and wanting everything to go their way......Hence
Fifty-six percent of voters say in the new Quinnipiac University poll that they disapprove of how the president is handling the economy, while 38 percent approve.
Even so, 45 percent trust the president more than Republicans on the economy, while 38 percent trust the Republicans more.
As negotiations to raise the debt ceiling have intensified and the president has taken on a larger role in fighting for them in public and in private, Obama’s approval rating has stayed unchanged from Quinnipiac’s last poll a month ago, with 47 percent of voters approving of his job performance while 46 percent disapprove.
If there’s no deal to raise the debt ceiling, the poll finds, voters would, 48 percent to 34 percent blame congressional Republicans over the president.
The voters surveyed would also prefer to see two measures that Obama has pushed: tax hikes for the rich and closing loopholes.
Legion357 was right.it's all about politics and so was vet43 when he said the Tea Party thinks more than 51% of Americans agree with them.
A pundit said "The rich pay Fox News and talk radio to convince their middle class audience that the rich need their tax cuts more than they do.
More evidence of Mike's white flag:
“Cantor didn’t say a word the whole meeting.”July 14, 2011
On a side note was out & about yesterday and happened to catch about five minutes of Hannity. Apparently he is now selling new themes of being "practical" and "reality based". His audience wasn't buying it. Fun to hear.
It looks like the senate will come to a compromise with smaller cuts and agreeing to form a bipartisan committee to work on tax reform according to republican senator Rob Portman. As we speak, Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell are trying to come up with a hybrid resolution like the one McConnell proposed..... No one knows what the more partisan house of representatives will do. Perhaps all of the democrats and a few republicans will give John Boehner the 218 votes he needs.
Yesterday I heard a republican senator Pat Toomey admit that they were forced to vote for the Ryan Plan which is political suicide. Only 35% of Americans think privatizing Medicare is a good idea. That's why political pundits are saying that in republicans want Medicare on the table, so they can tell their constituents" see democrats wanna cut to benefits as an an out for supporting Medicare vouchers.
Speaking from the Senate floor, Corker said" Republicans demanded linking the two issues because the Senate hasn't passed a budget in more than 800 days. "I credit both sides for that," he said. But now, the inability of the White House and Congress to agree to a spending deal -- and ensure a timely debt ceiling increase -- is "helping our great nation go into decline."...The GOP senators are having buyer's remorse.
This could have all been avoided with a one sentence piece of legislation stating that Section 3101 title 31 authorizes the debt limit to be raised... It's about a 20 minute vote. It doesn't mean that Congress cannot continue the fight to reduce spending because we still have not passed a 2012 budget where those arguments can be heard.
It's not about a government shutdown it's about unnecessarily spooking the markets and jeopardizing our credit rating .
This morning the house will vote and pass "cut,cap, and balance" on ideological lines but it will fail the the senate as usual. It's a complete waste of time.
WriteinThe last time Obama submitted a budget,it was defeated by 0-97...:-)It deserved the" 0" and whoever worked on it should of or may have been fired.
That's part of the problem;Obama can't get anything through a GOP controlled house.
If I were President, I would slap Congress with my idea. 1) 15-30% cut across the board for eight years. 2) The Fisher Tax plan YES MIKE I know, I know, one of my three year old ideas. An Asset/Value Tax on goods and services ranging from 2% (Food ) to 25% (Luxury items). Those making over $300,000 would pay a Flat income tax.
willIt's not the bankers I worry about; it's the trickle down effect of no money leading to small businesses producing layoffs of people who had nothing to do with Wall Street. Those of us that are retired would have seen our IRAs take the bigger hit than it did. Our credit rating would have gone down making stimulus impossible. We would've had consumers not purchasing, companies not hiring, the government not spending, so that just have left the onus on the Fed.
I don't really think Europe can judge our financial credibility. Theirs is worst. Now if you would've said Canada, you might have a story. The government spends more did it currently takes in but the country's not broke in. We have a country where 1% owns 20% of the wealth. We have CEOs seeing their pay raise 23% last year while workers pay only went up 0.5%. Fortune 500 companies have $2 trillion in reserves and the market is at 12,000. We've been having this battle against a supply side trickle down economics 'for 30 years. Yesterday, Republican representative Tim Walberg started looking at the Fair Labor Standards Act to see if they can modify the overtime and minimum wage laws to reflect today's market.....Lets see we can't repeal the tax subsidies to the oil companies and the producers of corn ethanol. We can't raise taxes on the top 2%, but we can talk about lowering the minimum wage, making more companies exempt from paying overtime, and cut benefits for Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid. Some states with Republican governors have already identified teacher's collective-bargaining rights as the bogeyman while giving tax breaks to multinational corporations.... Minnesota might be making some concessions now that Miller and Coors did not renew their liquor license before the shutdown.
There are people in office that are willing to let this country go to rock bottom to support their ideology. Compromise is a dirty word for them.
What goes up must come down. Basic law of Physics. Businesses are cyclic and subject to ups and downs. Our country's economy needed a correction as the previous FED chair kept warning.So, hundreds of thousands of jobs lost? Must have been a false economy to begin with. There is no such thing as too big to fail.
So, bankers lose their jobs and it trickles to main street. Maybe there would even be chaos, such as riots. Money is made in the building or destroying of a country. Just ask BUSH/CHEYNEY. ( I am just jeallous I wasn't freinds with them so I could have opened the Capital dome and scooped out a few billion).WE live in a protected society and our CREDIT SHOULD REFLECT OUR CREDIBILITY!After traveling to Europe, it was very obvious the US has almost no credibility. Maybe the US should have invested in Haliburton a dozen years ago and we would be sitting pretty. Meanwhile we are intertwined with communist china and their ally's , big corporations.I wish the big depression would have happened and maybe the people responsible for this mess would be brought to the town square and hanged.
I disagree; I think passing TARP was the best thing President George W Bush ever accomplished. Letting Wall Street crash would've had a domino effect causing about 25% unemployment. It was not handled correctly, but we have regained most of our money plus interest. I tend to believe a treasury secretary regardless of the party. I agree that big business and Wall Street prospered the most during this financial crisis and the one that benefited the most, Goldman Sachs, just shipped a thousand high paying highly skilled jobs overseas.
Recently, 300 CEOs wrote letters to the leaders of our nation insisting they pass the debt ceiling because this country does not need any more economic uncertainty, and we don't need our credit downgraded by Moody.
I do agree that Eric Cantor should take over as the speaker or take the back bench because he is the biggest stumbling block in these talks. Yesterday, the president told Cantor not to call his bluff. The players might have a Camp David meeting this weekend but the president is steadfast on not kicking the debt ceiling issue down the road. Even Bill O'Reilly and Lindsey Graham think tax revenues should be on the table.
This is amazing, Cantor who voted to raise the debt ceiling in the past several other times is making a name for himself being the Heavy. I see John Boehner crying in the corner of the house chamber while Cantor "speaks" for his party.(whatever that is). Does anyone think that the MACHINE will allow the US to default? I would love it to. I wanted the first crash and was upset when Bush pushed TARP and then Obama with the stimulas.We have been saving cash in the matress and were really disappointed that the correction did not happen. We were ready to buy real estate and luxury cars at correction prices with cash. Now the bankers are the only ones who won.It is time that people see that the little pieces of paper(stock certs )will be good for toilet paper when we default. I WANT TO SEE BLACK FRIDAY AGAIN PLEASE!!!!!!!
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I would not think the average taxpayer would consider themselves part of a kindergarten base. The GOP has made it plain who their base (employer) is and in this nation it is still one person one vote. And the Koch family is not that large even if they count the John Birch membership.
Taxes are a job killers and should not be raised during a recession unless your name is Ronald Reagan. The 1982 recession tax increase model implemented by President Reagan would never be passed by the current crop of congressional Republicans but was signed by the President after approval by the Democratic majority in the House.
Same dire economic objections were raised at that time but did not materialize.
Maybe fewer economist and more historians need to weigh in?
Most millionares share jets to save money. Don't have as big a payroll.
"Congress has already passed and the president has already signed legislation that increases spending or decreases revenues. Those decisions have already been made," said Susan Irving, director for federal budget issues at the Government Accountability Office.
The debt limit has been raised 74 times since 62, 10 times in the last 10 years.
I agree, the current debate is solely politically driven. The bills have been passed, the spending approved, but now congress argues about whether to pay the bill for what they have already spent or approved?
Shhesh, this is all political game playing. Buck up congress and pay for what you have already spent!
I'm not sure the Tea Party won anything for the GOP, except the wrong idea of what the election results meant. Midterm elections are notorous for their low turnout among working people and those barely making a living. It's no indication of what the majority of Americans want. It's just an indication of who had the spare time to go vote.
Republicans say the new standards, signed into law by President George W. Bush, are a symbol of an overreaching federal government and people should have the right to buy the traditional, cheap and reliable incandescent bulbs.
Don't tread on me!
The Tea Party won the mid terms for the GOP, and now it's payback....The moderate Republicans will get a Tea Party primary opponent backed with Koch's money, if they don't play ball.....John Boehner and President Obama could had worked out a budget deal and passed the debt ceiling a long time ago, but the Tea Party base wouldn't let them. Senator McConnell's worst nightmare is a second term for President Obama, so he won't agree to anything if he thinks it will enhance the president's chances of getting reelected.....
Republican Congressman Joe Barton of Texas, doesn’t care about the stinking economy, He wants is to go back to the old light bulbs that were cheaper but used about 90% more energy...:-)
The idea of smaller government sounds great. Many Tea Party members want a government that was formed in 1789 but they live in a 2011 nation of 300 + million citizens and when you threaten that many folks someone is going to get poked in the eye!
I figured the ball was about to be in play when I saw the President on the old folks channel (CBS) last night talking about how he couldn't be certain the SS checks would be in the mail the first of next month but reckoned the GOPers would stand tall and mouth Tea Party platitudes for at least another week before caving and then going home to explain the socialist takeover was more complete than imagined.
The return to pre-Bush tax cut levels for top income earners may be preferable to a market collapse too.
The nation's reaction to the Tea Party set will probably be even more effected by state budget activities in places like Wisconsin and Minnesota.
The President did not get his job because of his father's friends and is one very smart cat. Given Libya, the debt ceiling, and Afghanistan his plate would seem full but did anybody else notice how much money he raised in the last quarter for his reelection campaign? Shaping up to be a BILLION $$$ campaign. Dude is slick.
My favorite part of the Stewart bit was how Obama starts all of his press conferences with a long sigh like an annoyed parent.
I doubt most tea party members even realize how it will effect them if America goes into default. I don't think any of us realize just how much the government is actually in our lives and it would come as quite a shock if things near and dear to their lives just stopped one day.I really don't want to see it happen for obvious reasons, but it would be kind of cool to see people get their eyes opened and truly understand what they are asking for and how it will negatively impact their own lives and not just the lives of "others".
I honestly think that somehow the GOP thinks the Tea Party makes up 51% of the voters. In a real world most average tax payers work for a living and will never see a $250k W-2. We have kids in school, a mortgage to pay, food to buy and every dime is important. We older folks have watched our retirement investments vaporize and the banks/auto industry get a new Learjet tax break. It may be time for the Tea Party to think about who is treading on whom.
Those who truly need government assistance, (seniors, vets, government employees, etc. ) will see President Obama as their savior if he raises the debt ceiling so they can get their checks. As I've stated before, there are a lot more people that want to keep entitlement saftey net in place, then there are those who don't. Let the checks stop and see who gets blamed. It will be those hurting and going hungry. Republicans have to know this. They are simply trying to play russian roulette with the economy. It's not a smart thing to do and they are just now realizing they went too far.
That's correct,born2Bme, president Obama and his administration are not amateurs. The GOP forgets that the president beat a formidable foe, when he beat the Clinton machine. He's no dummy, he knows how to play politics with the best of them.
The Tea Party is not happy:
On Wednesday, the Tea Party Patriots group issued a statement blasting McConnell's proposal.
“Mitch McConnell’s plan shows plainly he wants to abdicate any responsibility for fiscal matters to the president,” Tea Party Patriots co-founder Mark Meckler said. “We send our representatives in Congress like Sen. McConnell to Washington to represent us and pass legislation that responds to the voters—not to pass the buck off to the Executive Branch.”
As the debt-ceiling limit debate rages on, Jon Stewart is not a happy man. The reason: Congress, of course.
"The people in charge of putting together this country-saving plan are the same ones who, as of today, currently on the floor of the House of Representatives doing this," Stewart said, as clips of Congressmen discussing incandescent light bulbs played.But it gets worse."Just so we're clear. They aren't fighting about light bulb standards. They are re-fighting a light bulb standards fight that we settled in 2007," the "Daily Show" host said. "We're three weeks away from having to park our country down the street so China can't find it, and these yuhtzes are re-litigating incandescent v. florescent. We are like children. That is why yesterday dad, much to his chagrin, had to come home early from work and give us a talking to about not cleaning our budget."...Eat your peas..:-)
Read more: http://tinyurl.com/5wvwb6k
Personally, I think the GOP's stance on this is gonna bite them in the backside. Who in that party is gonna agree to give the President that much power? They see this as their only opportunity to get what they want. It's clearly an attempt to backpedal and remove themselves from all liability. But they create liability by the very act itself. They cannot think that "most" Americans are so stupid that they cannot see this for what it is.President Obama surprised them by putting entitlements on the table. They never thought that he would, and when he did, it yanked the rug out from under their plans to paint him as uncompromising. The ball is now in their court and they don't know what to do, other than cut and run.
I don't disagree with anything you posted .I also believe gansoblanco had it right when he said ".if the money boys really believed that the debt ceiling was not going to be raised would the market would still be over 12,000?"........ I bet the Wall Street and the United States Chamber of Commerce honchos picked up the phone to let John Boehner and Mitch McConnell know that eliminating the credits for corporate fuel and corn ethanol is not worth the stock market crashing causing them to lose even more money.
I believe the GOP has been drug to a dry hole by the Tea Party. There may be a stunning outcome in the 2012 election. The far right, or far left, did not build this nation. It was the average American that paid his bills and taxes. It was their "pound of flesh" in the game that was not being fairly matched by those that have so much extra "flesh" they even had a special name from back in the day.