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Mike.Sorry but no. I strongly disagree. The Tea Party will not die, not as long as the establishment Democrats keeps on picking UNPOPULAR LEADERS like Nancy Pelscio or Harry Reid. People like Mark Warner, Jim Webb, or Kirsten Gellibrand should be in congressional leadership. It is ashamed that we have congressional leader who have been in office/congress long before I was born. I also fault President Obama for picking a Washington insider to head the DNC, if he really want “Change” then he should pick people who is from his base. The Y generation folks (like myself), the gen Xer’s, and people who are in the rank file.The Republican Party since its genesis had always picked the person who seems to be the heir apparent to the throne. Case in point, the loser in 2000 GOP Primary won the 2008 primary. The 1996 candidate was the loser to the nominee in 1988. Barry Goldwater lost to Richard Nixon in 1960 before becoming 1964 nominee. Same can be said for Hoover, Ike Eisenhower, Ford, Reagan, and every GOP candidate since. Using history as a guide, I must say Romney and Palin are the two heirs.
I caught the last part of an episode of 60 Minutes on CNBC last night. The segiment was about medical tourisim. Interesting. There was a woman that had a hip replacement in India. They compared not only the cost of the procedure, but the procedure itself, the cost of recovery, type of recovery and recovery time.
The hip replacement the woman had cost around $8,000, total. That included hospital, surgerical, recovery costs and a personal nurse. The woman said it was the best service she had ever had. Her recovery was moved to a seaside resort location at a cost of about $120 a night for 2. The cost to have the procedure in the US is about $22,000.
I missed the part where they explained why there was such a huge difference in the costs. I’m sure the fact that India is a much poorer country has something to do with it, but I’ve seen several programs like this one and the countries are not always poor. The costs are just ridiculously cheaper and it appears the treatment is superior.
A few years back a loved one went in to have a routine stint procedure done. 3 different strains of staff later and she was dead. Ask a nurse that worked in a hospital 30 or more years ago how clean their hospitals were compared to the ones today. It’s sick. I’ve seen blood and who knows what on the walls, floor etc. in rooms that have been “cleaned”.
you are absolutely welcome
Mike, I really don't study numbers that much, so you know more about it than I do
I really appreciate our civil discussion.
I hate to be argumentative I really do but I don't totally agree with your assessment.
Remember all the free clinics that were set up to provide health care for those that did not have health insurance in Los Angeles, Louisiana, North Carolina, Texas and elsewhere. The number one problem was that these people had not seen a Dr. or been in a hospital in several years. They ended up treating people who were in the later stages of their diseases.
The factors driving the rising cost of health care and premiums are:1. Medical cost inflation has been around 3.5 %2. Drugs, Medical Devices and medical advances are....... 22% of cost3. Consolidated hospitals negotiating higher payments..... 18%4. Government mandates and regulations........15%5. Increase consumer demand especially by the elderly....15%6. Litigation in risk management.......7%7. Fraud and abuse.......5%
One of the fastest-growing area of hospitals and outpatient centers is radiology. That is going from 8 to 9% a year and much of that is on the more expensive procedures like MRIs and PET.
Fewer hospitals dominate many major metropolitan areas giving them the leverage they need to negotiate higher prices.
I'm not discounting you thoughts. They are right on in most instances, and yes, we should all do the best we can to stay healthy so we don't put a burden on anyone else.Do you remember that runner awhile back? He did "everything" right. Exercised, ate well, didn't drink, smoke, etc. He went running one day and died of a heart attack. None of us can say what will, or will not, cause health problems in each individual.
Diabetis is a strange disease. It effects many types of people, young, old, skinny, overweight. Many times is it heredity, as it is in my husbands case. He has been diagnosed as insulin resistant. He weighs all of 140 pounds, if he is lucky that day.
I don't have a answer for the high cost of medical care. There are too many variables, but what I do know is that it is getting higher because of the unemployed, uninsured. Hospitals and doctors have to make up for all of the free care they give to people, so they just up the prices on those that have insurance or have the money to pay for their own care. Get more people on insurance and out of ER's, it should help
I get your point. My father was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer in 2008. They gave him 4-6 months. He was in the hospital about to get a pacemaker, but that fell through, or he decided it would be better to die with heart failure, than go through the cancer thing. But, tumors were discovered on his brain and he had the laser surgery to remove those, which cost tens of 1000's of $$. I never understood why they would do that to a terminal patient.They gave him 4 months, maybe 6 if he took the chemo, but he refused that, and he died in 2. We think it was the heart condition that took him, but that is not what they put on the death certificate. I know my father, he would have just not taken his heart medication. He went out on the porch one morning and died sitting in his chair. I didn't want to see my father die, but was thankful he went before the cancer made him suffer too much.My point in all of this, why all the extra treatment when there is no hope of more than a few months, with or without further treatment? Also, with every new doctor he saw, the same tests were done over and over. That should not be happening.
born2BmeI understand your point but I don't know if it averages out. I am one of the lucky ones who was screened for type two diabetes a long time ago. I'm positive if I didn't maintain my weight, watched what I ate, or receive quarterly blood tests my condition would worsen. There are many people who have diabetes and don't know it even though they look healthy. That's why I think more preventative care is one of the answers.
Human beings who are predisposed to certain ailments should be screened. Finding and treating a disease in its early stages saves money and lives.
I think people living a healthy lifestyle should pay less for their health insurance like those that are considered safe drivers pay less for auto insurance.
SiubYour scenario has been discussed extensively and the answer is; the healthier individual would receive incentives, like a lower premium. I've heard that some companies are trying this and taking it a step further. They reward those that give up smoking,lose weight, and they provide funding for dietitians and health clubs because it pays off in the long run.
Your point is well taken because insurance companies just shuffle papers and don't and can't do anything about our unhealthy choices. The rates of obesity and diabetes coincide, one does not have to look far to see what direction this country is going, because we're an independent lot that don't like to be preached to. That's why I think the money we spend on preventative care will lower premiums if everyone is insured.
To me, fairness can be an 80/20 proposition; about 20% of the time I will encounter an unfair situation that doesn't have a feasible solution but it doesn't mean we can't keep trying.
My group, those on Medicare, make up about 50% of our health care costs and it is a costly burden on the working middle class. While I don't propose being heartless, I think we need to have a discussion about the final six months of our elderly on Medicare. It may be the exception to the rule, but I saw my mother's final Medicare bill had charges for the expensive ICU instead of hospice and for treatments that were unnecessary for an incurable disease. If we start to have the discussions someone will demonize it by calling it " government death panels." Europe is not as squeamish about such things. If most of the elderly are like me, they will be happy to consider " end of life consultation."
I know it's an old cliche but we need a RESET because we're not doing what we should be doing because we're afraid of backlash. We just treat the symptoms and don't do anything about the cures.
Living a healthy lifestyle does not always promise a healthy body. I've know people who did everything right and got cancer, had diabetis, got in a wreck, or got hurt on the job. I've known people who did everything wrong and never got sick or went to the doctor.I think it will average out over the whole Country. Human beings are predisposed to certain ailments through heredity, lifestyle, job choice, and location.
I've done endless research and watched the Recovery Act hearings and have at the ready ,documented proof, that 11.2 million undocumented people are not the main source of our expensive Health Care system. You would have to believe that all 11.2 people would be at ERs 24/7,at the same time..... Divide 11.2 million by 310 million...They sure are a sickly. How do they have time to get the labor done because they are also the reason given for our high employment?..Use some common sense....That's why I look for a 50 state solution for our national problems, not something off talk radio or back yard gossip.
The fact that Parkland hospital or the ones in New York, Los Angeles, Santa Fe, Tucson and Las Vegas are hit hard still leaves over 40 states that aren't... As said, I don't have any illusion that you will be convinced,so it's best to drop it and continue with our day.
It's still a red herring because the hypothetical Wolf Blitzer came up with was about a fellow American.
That's the point I was trying to make.
1. Charitable contributions have been at an all time low for a few years,nationally.2. I go to a large church and they can't even keep up with food demand..We are constantly asked for an extra donation.
We all agree that a dependency on government is not ideal but our poverty rate is climbing and as long as I have been alive I've never seen "other Americans should take care of the less fortunate" become a reality...It makes a good soundbite.
Where once churches could help, it's not possible today. They are in dire financial crisis too most of the time and with the cost of healthcare, how much can they do?
Your comment is just a red herring not supported by any document facts..I was going to post some facts to dispute your assumption but you wouldn't accept them because it's much easier to find a scapegoat. It's not popular to say "let Americans die" but who can disagree with "let non-citizens die."..
"adopt one" is the same argument used against Pro-lifers..It's supposed to be a conversation stopper but it's not because we pay ~$1,000 more for our insurance premiums because of ER abuse by anyone.But you are probably one of those who see or believes hearsay...Those people see a dark or tanned person in the ER and automatically assume they are non citizens because they were speaking a foreign language or the busy bodies just assumed they were...That works for those that like to have their ears tickled.
I still say, even before I cut & pasted my previous post on this subject;health care is not an ideal supply and demand free market product. That won't connivence the free market fundamentalist or those that think the churches or nonprofits groups can afford to pick up the tab. Finding scapegoats or repeating slogans is much easier than saying "hey, maybe we ought to look at the unnecessary expensive procedures,duplications, and preventive care."
I made my point and you made yours .....Subject closed ,unless you provide reliable document proof.
Wolf Blitzer did a great job of peeling back the onion to exposing how far the "I've got mine" folks will go.
It's a liitle less than 8 or 9 months before we see the who wins the republican primary,so every thing is a predication right now and yours is as good as any.
I don't agree with your prediction because about 75% of GOP do not want Palin to run her unfavorability is over 51% nationally....You forgot Mitt Romney who is second to the Perry....Rick Perry saw the weak field and decided to run. I think if Rick Perry continues to make controversial remarks ,he will spook the the established GOP causing them to try and convience a Chris Christie or Jeb Bush,someone who stands a chance to win a general election.....It's usually about 10% of the electorate who actually determine the eventual winner because the GOP and Democrats will vote for their own candidates.
Rick Perry and Mitt Romney can draw the big money necessary to win a national campaign....According to the polls it's a two man race.
I will predict this...If the Dems take back the house,maintain the senate and win the presidency;it will be the END of the Tea Party.
I just have to make a prediction. Yes I am know I will go out on a limb but, it seems Rick Perry’s candidacy is just a stocking horse to end or hindered the Presidential runs of Ron Paul and Michele Bachman. Ron Paul’s candidacy and “popularity” are considered a danger to the longevity of Republican/Religious Right Rule. As for Michelle Bachman, her run caters to the angry fearful soccer mom voter. But Bachman isn’t powerful enough or even “popular” enough to face President Obama….so the real horse is that of Sarah Palin.
What should we do for people who can't afford medical treatment after emergency room care?50,000 people die each year because they have no health insurance. How can this happen in the US? I know people who had no insurance and couldn't pay for the medications they needed. How can this happen in the richest country in the world?
This is a clear case where the majority are being oppressed by a system that is run by a wealthy and politically powerful minority whose main aim is to enrich themselves at all costs even if it means dropping coverage for the sick who have already paid premiums into their profit making money pools. WHAT IS WRONG WITH US, ARE WE CRAZY?
We are the only advanced civilization on earth that does not collectively solve the health care issue for its citizens.
By that definition, we ARE crazy.
Americans are crazy because too many of us think that free market capitalism and the profit motive can be applied to all human activities. Health care is one of those things that does not follow the laws of supply and demand. Supply and demand rules are the result of free choices made by free people.
People don't have a free choice when it comes to health care. We can't choose not to have cancer or choose not to get into an accident.
Capitalism and health care do not mix. Therefore, we should all pay for it and use the government like an insurance company that spreads the money around.
It's so easy to say let Americans will take care of the less fortunate and then roll over and go back to sleep and make believe the job is done....About 50,000 will die this because they didn't have health insurance,so they weren't prescreened for a disease that could have been treated in its first stages.....A prosperous country should take of the less fortunate...This government they fear is you and me paying with our tax dollars..Those that oppose this are afraid their taxes might go up a little bit or their priorities might not be met.....I've heard that fantasy line of getting the government out of it for all of my life...No one ever steps up...Someone without insurance will need hospital came today or tomorrow but no one will step up but the same rhetoric will be used over and over as though it is a viable plan.
Good news for democrats; Elizabeth Warren has thrown her hat in the ring to be the next new senator from Massachusetts after she beats Scott Brown in 2012... Bad news for Wall Street because she will be on them like white on rice.... The republicans held up the nomination process preventing her from being the head of the newly created Consumer Protection Agency but revenge is sweet.
I just hope when it counts, someone will show Perry up for what he is. Obama's campaign cannot play softball with him if he is the republican nominee
Governor Perry is quite a politician; he saw the bad response when republicans applauded his 234 executions, got. A week later, he is saying he was" taken aback" by the cheers saying"“We’re the party of life,” Perry said. “We ought to be coming up with ways to save lives.”... Campaign advisers are worth their weight in gold, because they are excellent spin meisters.
I understand your point but he is the frontrunner and the only way the other candidates can make up ground, is to take him down a notch or two. That means giving him extra time for rebuttal.
This is only his second debate, but I had completely forgotten about the The Trans-Texas Corridor fiasco.Good point.
Governor Perry still has a lot a material from his book that candidates can pick apart.
The GOP presidential candidates can't afford to beat up Governor Perry too much ,if they want him to stand a chance against President Obama.
I also don't think it is right how they are all concentrating of Perry. He gets way more time in these debates than he should.I keep waiting for someone to bring up his eminent domain stance, and how he wanted to give parts of America to a foreign Country to manage, thereby taking away a large chunk of taxable properties from local and school taxation. That would raise taxes considerably for those unfortunate enough to be in those areas
It it just my opinion, but I think that question was tailored for Ron Paul to get the response they wanted. That's an interesting take, as to whether he chose not to buy it ,especially since it was a hypothetical to show just how far one can take their beliefs. The other politicians would spin their answers, like Michelle Bachmann did, and blame it on what she calls ObamaCare.
After the debate CNN did an instant fact check on Governor Perry and Michelle Bachmann. Governor Perry said the stimulus did not produce one job....Wrong..Wrong...Wrong.. Governor Perry wants to kick Social Security to the states. He balanced our budget with Medicaid and stimulus money, so it's not that he doesn't like federal money, he likes to balance his budget with it. I've got a picture of GOP state's funding Social Security or raising taxes. We all know what route they would take.
Michelle Bachmann said the president's stole $500 billion from Medicare to support ObamaCare. She got a BARELY TRUE because benefits were NOT cut, it was passed with legislation,so Obama didn't steal anything, besides all they did was cut the rate of growth.
I was upset last night when they didn't all answer the question about letting the man die if he didn't have insurance, because he chose not to buy it. We got one answer and the others kept skirting the issue and then they just went on to a different question, or was it a break?Talk about dodging a bullet.
As CNN's Anderson Cooper was fixing to go to break, I heard someone in the background say " I don't want to even be in the same room with those crazy heartless people" in talking about the Tampa Tea Party crowd.
Now that a democrat is the president, the GOP candidates are tired of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan... I wonder why that is? I'm just glad they are on board.
The tea party mentality amuses me somewhat. I can guarantee that if any one of those that want to deny help to those who cannot help themselves, would be pushing ahead in the line if some unplanned event befell them.
I don't think Governor Perry should have been impeached because Texas Atty. Gen. Greg Abbott is the one that stopped the commission from investigating in based on some technicalities... I think Governor Perry could have given Mr. Willingham a stay until iafter a complete investigation but he thought the facts were in..He probably gave the Atty. general that ordered to stop the investigation.
President Reagan's daughter, Cindy Davis, said that that was a difference between the eight GOP candidates and her father. She talked about President Reagan kneeling and praying hoping he had done the right thing, whereas Governor Perry and the crowd at the Reagan library gloated and applauded the governor's 234 executions..... She said it's sicken her when she heard that applause.
vet43They already had mudslinging down to an art form; they're just making adjustments...:-)Lee Atwater and Karl Rowe were the grand champions of mudslinging.
I think it's more reflection on the tea party than it is on the Republican Party but I was stunned when the crowd cheered after Wolf Blitzer asked Ron Paul "what ought to be done for an uninsured thirty year old who becomes gravely ill. Paul said "freedom was all about taking risks, which brought applause from the GOP audience, because they love freedom, but apparently aren’t too keen on sick poor people."Wolf Blitzer asked "“Are you saying society should just let him die?” You could hear the screams of "yeah" in the background before Ron Paul even answered. Ron Paul went on to say that in his first years of practice, the churches would have picked up the tab. Different times... Can you imagine asking the churches to pay for a $125,000 hospital stay? That's not realistic.
The debates are unfair to someone like Ron Paul because his truth telling is being used against him. For example, one day after the 10 year anniversary of 9/11 is not the time to say we are partly to blame for 9/11.... I know what he meant but there's a time and a place.That's why he got booed last night.
The republican candidates need to stop the Social Security scare tactics for one, the democrats are going to use that against them ,but most importantly Social Security will be there for the younger people, it's not broke or bankrupt, and all it needs is a few minor fixes.
Let the GOP and Tea Party give it their best shot. They are turning mud slinging into an art form.
It is a downright shame that there was no impeachment charges filed against Rick Perry for the death of Cameron Todd Willingham.
Have you notice Bo Stinks or Rollinstone had not post on here?
If anyone thinks that privatizing SS will work, they are dillusional. Can you imagine all of the young people who will take their money and just spend it, and when they are old, or disabled, they will have their hand out and demand that the government help them?Then if they do invest it, it will get stolen out from under them. Then there are those that know nothing about investing, and there will be vultures swooping down on those people too.Privatizing is just another name for , "get the money out of the governments control so we can steal it all and screw all you little people."
GOP_lovechildThis is just a repeat of all GOP debates ,get rid of Wall Street and corporate regulations,lie,tort reform,& tax cuts etc.About 40 minutes all trickle down so far.
All 8 republicans at tonight's GOP debate wants to privatize Social Security in one form or another.Social Security is fine for next 25 years and at worse if nothing is done,75% of every dollar would still be paid...All we need to do is raise the caps and do some means testing and we wouldn't have to mess with Wall Street. All are pandering to current recipients. No real solutions for Medicare but that is to be expected since it can't be tied to Wall Street.
Doing my best to watch the tea party debate right now, Makes me think the Mayans have their prediction of a 2012 Apocalyptic catastrophe in 2012 right on the money.
Congressional Budget Office,anyone who pins deficit spending on dems should go to the CBO for figures to see this became the norm under Republicans Presidents starting with Reagan and ending with W's spectacular economic crash.
bornHave you noticed that there is no in -between; it's either conservative or liberal?
We used to have generally accepted standards but that has been muddled by the special interest groups.
Yesterday I heard an interesting conversation between Fareed Zakaria and former secretary defense Donald Rumsfeld. Mr. Rumsfeld was trying to make his point about increasing our military budget because after WWII it used to be 10% of GDP and now it is only 4% of GDP. Mr. Zararia said our GDP is much larger so the 4% were spending right now is much larger than what all the countries combined spend. When Mr. Rumsfeld said" then you want the defense budget as small as Somalia"I was then when I knew Rumsfeld was just blowing smoke. People will try to compare 2011 to 1945, as if things were the same.
Yes, I believe people will believe what they want to believe even if it doesn't make sense...I.E. I didn't criticize the Bush administration when they were borrowing money to pay for two wars, two tax cuts, and a seven trillion dollar prescription drug bill until after -the- fact... I would just hoping they knew what they were doing.
Liberal sources are no more wrong just because they are Liberal sites, that conservative sites are right, just because they are conservative sites.There are many, from both sides, that just do not want to see the truth. When doing research, you have to dig DEEP to find the truth, and the truth means different things to different people, so in the end, people believe what they want to believe.
By David Goldman, CNNMoney.com staff writerLast Updated: January 9, 2009: 12:11 PM ETNEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The hemorrhaging of American jobs accelerated at a record pace at the end of 2008, bringing the year's total job losses to 2.6 million or the highest level in more than six decades.
A sobering U.S. Labor Department jobs report Friday showed the economy lost 524,000 jobs in December and 1.9 million in the year's final four months, after the credit crisis began in September.The unemployment rate rose to 7.2% last month from 6.7% in November - its highest rate since January 1993.
The steep annual drop in jobs marked the highest yearly job-loss total since 1945, the year in which World War II ended.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/09/news/...by Heidi Shierholz with research assistance from Tobin Marcus
This morning the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported the nation shed 524,000 jobs last month, capping 12 months of declining payroll employment. The BLS also revised its employment estimates for previous months downward by 154,000 jobs, showing that the U.S. economy lost nearly 2.6 million jobs since December 2007.
Just to keep up with the ever-expanding labor force, the economy would have needed to create 1.5 million jobs over the last 12 months. This means that the 2.6 million jobs lost leaves us over 4 million jobs short of what the economy required to provide employment for the American workforce.
born2BmeI have never been convinced that liberal sources are wrong but that information is readily available..:-)... Like a good boy scout " I'm always prepared."
It's so same people that think that if you let that corporations back up to the treasury and fill their trucks up with cash, get rid of the unions, and those nasty regulations and taxes; things will be hunky dory.... Supply side trickle down economics' does not work.
Mike, you know that there are a lot on here that will say that chart doesn't mean anything because it came from a Liberal site, or some such nonsense as that.