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Ok, it's counterproductive for me to try to convince someone who has their mind made up about voter ID.
Consider this article to be my answer for any future inquiries.I'm tied of repeating myself.
"The driving force behind strict voter ID requirements in general is not a genuine effort to prevent fraud, since there is virtually no evidence that in-person voter fraud is occurring. It is, rather, the Republican Party’s electoral calculations. Barriers at the polls drive down voter turnout, especially among the poor, racial minorities and students — groups that are less likely than average to have driver’s licenses, and that are more likely than average to vote Democratic.
The imposition of harsh new requirements to vote has become a partisan issue, but it should not be. These rules are an assault on democracy itself. The current conservative Supreme Court showed last month, in its ruling upholding the Indiana ID law, that it will not perform its historical role of protecting voters. That puts the burden on state legislators, governors, state courts and ordinary citizens to ensure that the right to vote is not taken away for partisan political gain."
Did I say afraid? I believe I said it makes it more difficult for some. The college student rarely votes, now if they have to go to the DMV and sign up to get an unnecessary voter ID, they probably won't vote at all. The poor elderly minority woman has been voting for years, so set in her ways,so she is unlikely to bother with it. Already, a low percentage of people vote nationally, we shouldn't be making it more difficult for them.
I believe convicted felons can now vote in some states. If they can't, I don't see a reason they shouldn't if they have paid their debt to society. In all likelihood they probably don't vote anyhow. None U.S. citizens cannot produce the documents to vote. Do you have documented proof that non citizens are voting? I don't think so.... I believe I read somewhere that there were only 50 cases of voter fraud in Texas, all democrats by the way. More than half of those cases were thrown out, others had to do with technicalities, but very few actually voted..... You have a check to I.E, Victoria has X amount of registered voters who have been checked out, if we get a number that surpasses that we have a problem. The electronic voting machines that don't produce paper copies are more of a problem but we're not doing anything about that.I could go for a national ID card where the burden of proof applies to everyone and cannot be seen as a political tool to suppress voting.
I think that being afraid of non citizens voting is just a myth. Why do only republican legislators want to push this myth. I'll try to get this video of an Ohio congressman who admitted heating have any evidence of voter fraud but it was one those " just in case.".. You know it's like those laws banning "Sharia law."... They can go ahead and pass the voter ID but they aren't fooling anyone and those laws can be repealed after a court injunction. We need to move forward not back to the 1960s.
I know I didn't convince you of anything nor did I expect to... You asked a question, I gave my opinion but things didn't change.
I know what some are implying,I wasn't born yesterday.Those people don't want to stand in line to vote but it's a good excuse to throw up a barrier.
I still don't understand how having to show a legal ID will scare some people from voting. I can think of a couple of reasons why someone would be afraid- 1. trying to conceal the fact that they are a convicted felon or 2. they are not a US citizen
Please share your thoughts.
Please enlighten US..Who is the US you are representing? Surely it's not the VA forum.Is the right wing research machine broke?
True, that was a normal democratic district but that was just a one year deal, Mr. Turner will be up for reelection in 2012. No doubt it was a big victory for the GOP.- That election had more to do with the orthodox Jews not liking Obama's views on Israel. That's the way these special elections go sometime,s because usually it's a low turnout. Earlier the democrats flipped the conservative seat in New York vacated by the Craiglist Christopher Lee because the GOP candidate favored the the Ryan Budget plan..... I'm fairly confident President Obama won't have any trouble taking New York.... That's not to say that it's not a wakeup call as was the Scott Brown one in Massachusetts. Liberals are just as angry as anyone else because President Obama is not standing up to the opposition. If you are going down, go down on your principles and platform. You cannot compromise with the uncompromising opposition.
I'm fairly certain the democrats want to face Rick Perry rather than Mitt Romney, because the latter is a lot more knowledgeable than Perry.
President Obama won't get a challenger because it still a little less than 14 months out and if it's an election about the economy what difference would it make? I think this election will be about contrast.....
And there's trouble in both camps because for the first time ever, 54% of the people say throw all the bums out. Usually they like their congressman and want to throw the rest out.Congress has a 15% approval..Who are the 15%?
"If you want me to put it to you bluntly, I will. The Republican Party sees their numbers dwindling because their largest demographic( elderly white male) cannot continue carrying the party..."
So tell Mike. What happened in this week's special congressional vote. Specifically, let me note New York City. Turner (a non-Dem) defeated Weprin (Dem).
Looks like there is trouble in the democratic paradise. So, which democrat is going to challenge Mr Obama? It appears to me we are about to witness Mr. Obama having to make an October LBJesque announcement. 'I have chosen not to ...." If I recall, that speech was done on Halloween Night. I vaguely recall trick or treating and LBJ was making an announcement. I was on Rosebud street. At the Hogue's house as I recall. Don't remember the treat though. Perhaps LBJ's announcement was the treat. Maybe Perry will do a repeat announcement in October 2011.
"...voter fraud is not a BIG (emphasis added) problem." So, you are conceding that it is a problem, just, in your opinion, not big enough to merit any action on the part of the government. Exactly how big does it have to get, when some elections are decided by a handful of votes, before you would feel that some action is indicated? Please enlighten us, oh boutiful fount of left-wing thought.
Well Alton, I have already answered that in this thread but I'll try again.
It's called demographics. The poor, minorities, and first time voters usually vote for democrats. I've always taken for granted that it was common knowledge. For example, in Texas an NRA card is one of the few exceptions that will be accepted. Who would that be?
As I stated yesterday, it's funny how the right whines about regulations, government agencies, laws, unless it's to their advantage. Proactive is subjective, let's take away the guns to avoid another senseless killing. NO , why am I not surprised?An intrusive pat down at the airport can be called proactive.
If you want me to put it to you bluntly, I will. The Republican Party sees their numbers dwindling because their largest demographic( elderly white male) cannot continue carrying the party.... They put together an effort by telling republican governors to enact tort reform laws( lawyers support democrats) strip collective bargaining(unions support democrats) and pass voter ID laws to make it harder for democratic constituents to vote. Wisconsin will not accept a college ID anymore. Were they having a lot of student voter ID fraud? Not according to their Atty. general.
Not all of us have our head in the sand. I wrote a a blog a couple years ago about a national ID card and the libertarians hit the roof. You call it proactive, I call it going back to the days of Jim Crow and voter suppression. Democratic governors aren't in favor of voter ID laws because voter fraud is not a big problem.
Now,I know I just wasted 15 minutes responding because you didn't believe a word I typed but that's life and I knew that before hand...:-)
Could you explain your logic more related to the comment: "They have already enacted voter ID laws to discourage democratic voters but there is no proof of extensive voter fraud." What evidence is there that voter ID laws discourage democratic voters any more than any other party or independent? How does voter ID discourage the legal casting of a vote? And is it not logical to be proactive in attempts to avoid voter fraud regardless of how much it occurs?
You have posted three times and have yet to address the topic of this particular blog. When I'm reading a magazine and I don't like the article, I flip the page and go to the next.
You speak of lies but you posted things about me that weren't true, I answered ,but you ignored it and are now coming up with new charges.
What are you,the Roger Ebert of the VA's blogs?
I have said that personal stories do not carry as much weight with me unless the person has expertise in the field. A personal plea? Really? I have been writing about health care for over four years and in that time, I have injected my personal stories and have accepted those from others, not to verify a claim but to clarify a position.
I think I know your problem. You don't like it if someone doesn't think conservatism is god sent and any action by the government is socialism. I stopped believing that if you just kowtow to the man (big business), things will be better, in a trickle down way.
On any given day anyone can be called a hypocrite but I consider the source.
I've always believed that if a person has to brag about his/hers character or accomplishments, then they're not all they make themselves out to be. If a person is of good character, others will notice and point it out to others. Self assessments don't carry too much weight with me.
Now it's getting embarrassing because I don't like to self-promote but I will defend my position.
itisi! Where have you been? I owe you a recipe. I thought about writing it up using phrases like "a liberal amount of..." or "a conservative amount of..." before each ingredient. If I were more creative, it would be a fun and funny recipe. =D
"I, on the other hand, am frank and honest with my remarks, I tell it like it is… I live in reality every day…"
Best joke of the day! You do realize we can see your comment history, right?
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The President, “American Jobs Act.” I’ll tell you this, go ahead and continue to strangle small/big businesses with more regulation, and place more taxes on the wealthy… Do you know who will suffer; it will be the poor? It will be the Democrats fault! It will be the fault of ideology! It will be the fall of this country!
Character, you dang right I go after your character, but it’s your character from within your ideology… Mike, I read every article you post, “most” are nothing more than a continuance of liberal talking points from all those liberal web/sites you follow, which are packed with hate and lies.
I can write one sentence on character… You can write article and never mention the word “character”, and completely bash that person (republicans) to no end… You have a unique writing style, and I’m sure you received an “A” in creative writing!
The political issues that you write about based on your unique writing style, you lack honesty, and you deceive readers, because of that unique writing style. Your intentions are to write articles in a context so they cannot be criticized, because you don’t feel the need to have an argument or disagreement within a particular subject matter.
I, on the other hand, am frank and honest with my remarks, I tell it like it is… I live in reality every day, not in some fantasy world in a glass house with no “Windex”…
You make the claim of not responding to personal stories, but on your most recent post prior to this one, you made a personal plea on the issue of healthcare at 9:00 at night which you never do. So are you a hypocrite, are not?
You might buffalo some of the people some of the time, but you can’t buffalo all the people all the time♠
So I guess, mike, you're hoping "Solargate" is just going to be swept under the rug so you don't have to spin some excuse for BO?
ImRich (or should I say Mr. Jones)
The Republicans should be worried about the 2014 Governor, Lt. Governor, and Attorney General's races.
It seems like you try to address all the negatives all the time but you go back in defeat each and every time....I'm sure you know you have options.:
1. You could write your own blog and dazzle those who read it.2. You can ignore a blog loaded with negatives because it's a waste of your time>>.That's what I do if I thought a blog was full of negatives...It's not like you will be missed.
Now,I've had all the fun an old man can stand in one day...You can argue with yourself......Until tomorrow or when I post another blog full of negatives...:_0
Neil Diamond for PresidentStevie Nicks his V.P.
I didn’t say anything about ignoring voter fraud but it's usually right wingers that whine about useless regulations or laws...I am a law abiding citizen who complies with the law and encourages others to do so, but I call a spade a spade...Wasn't it you that said you would falsify a government document (felony) if it meant finding a better school for your child? In a heartbeat, I think you said.. Do you get to pick and choose which laws are enforced and which may be ignored? I believe that thread is still available...It's best to clean your own house before you criticize mine.
Aren’t you the one that whines about big brother?
All this because I wrote about a republican scheme....There is no room for thin skins in politics.
When it comes to your blogs, if I addressed all the negatives, the size of the file would probably bring the Advocate server down. Following your "epidemic" line of reasoning, if there are only one or two murders (a felony, just like voter fraud), we should just ignore them, right? Or do you get to pick and choose which laws are enforced and which may be ignored?
The main point is: one that's always lost by you, is that there is no epidemic of voter fraud but republican legislators are pushing voter ID laws in several states.... That's not too hard to understand. Democrats are not pushing voter ID laws. Wisconsin is no longer accepting student ids discouraging young voters who usually vote for democrats.
I didn't mention the ACLU and I didn't propose anything; all of that is a figment of your imagination.
I definitely stated that the scheme is perfectly LEGAL and not unconstitutional. I also stated that it doesn't matter in Nebraska our Maine because they don't have that many electoral votes.This morning I stated that the republican legislators in Pennsylvania are having second thoughts.
I'll bet you you just scanned the blog and decided to write all the negatives that you could think of.
So voter ID laws ONLY discourage LEGAL Democrat voters but not LEGAL Republican voters? Really?
Either Pennsylvania, Nebraska and Maine can all assign electoral votes by Congressional District or none of them can. Are you proposing that your beloved ACLU sue all three States?
I think you need to go back and read your own blogs instead of lecturing me.
I never intened to write a tit -for- blog, it was about a political scheme to gain advantage ,besides I don't have an obligation to write blogs, criticizing democrats. You can do that but I have never posted negative things, tried to change the subject, or even posted on your blogs, out of courtesy. I don't expect you to extend the same courtesy, but you still have the option of ignoring what I write. By all means, correct what you see wrong, but you never even addressed the topic. You changed the topic to what you wanted to discuss.
Your main intent was to denigrate my character without a smidgen of proof.
Our Victoria Advocate form has a great search feature and I have an extensive comment history, so wouldn't be that hard to check out your facts before posting your lies.
I'm not that interested in Rick Perry, but I think everyone knows that he was a conservative democrat, so when Karl Rove convinced him to switch parties; it wasn't a big deal. I have mentioned that before.
Lie #2, waywardwind and I discussed the 2001 in-state tution for illegal immigrants..Check it outLie #3 In this forum and my personal blog I stated that President Bush & Governor Perry did not get along and I know how it all started but I don't really care...Does anyone?Lie #4 Patriot Act is a far cry from a MANDATE that won't go into affect until 2014 if then, depending on how the Supreme Court rules.
This is another issue that waywardwind and I discussed on its merits without prejudice. I love a good constitutional arguments and so does waywardwind; besides I never knew that I was required to meet your standards...That's not a goal of mine.
Now ,I will remind you once again, this blog IS NOT about illegal immigration, Governor Perry, The Patriot Act or any of your hot button issues. The VA forum allows you to write blogs to your heart's content but I frown on you piggybacking off any blog I write. I have deleted others for doing what you are doing ,so consider this a warning. Take it any way you like.
You know you always use "liberal' in the pejorative but I have noticed that your ilk will always change the subject when your party or ideology gets caught doing something wrong.
You won't be missed.
It was the "going" somewhere that is the issue. Suprised the ViCad did not catch it!
It's going to be a close election ; it may be a state like Pennsylvania, Ohio, or Wisconsin that determines the election. I think you're saying that the electoral system is outdated, can be manipulated, and it's not a good way to elect a president. If that is the case, it won't be changed before 2012, but that doesn't give a political party a pass. I think we should have a system that keeps honest people honest.
The republicans are taking another look at it, because it could hurt them. The 20 electoral votes will appeal to presidential candidates but using the example I posted it would only be a net gain of four votes(12 GOP-8 Dem=4). States like it when presidential candidates visit their states, hear their complaints, and leave their money. What if Mitt Romney won the state of Pennsylvania and lost by five electoral votes nationally? This plan will only work if they can convince several states to follow them after they do the math. If they go through all this manipulating and lose, that scheme will still be there for their opponents to use against them in four years.
Last night, former Pennsylvania Governor Rendell,said it could be challenged in the courts on a " one one ,person one vote" issue ,especially when the urban inner city vote of Philadelphia is worth less than the surrounding suburban vote, in this scheme.
I hope I didn't misquote you with my interpretation of what you posted.
I think they're going to scrap it.
PilotMost likely true and shouldn’t be a big deal if she and her daughter weren’t preaching the virtues of not sleeping around after the fact..Also, this rumor alone will bring Palin Inc. to a screeching halt on the TeaBagger Rubber Chicken Circuit. What TeaBagger is going to pay to hear talk, by her books or right-wing snake oil now? For all the talk of “we are not racist” - Palin crossed the line with this bunch and McCain’s Republican affirmative action experiment gone haywire just shorted out.
Please think about what you are saying. What do mean about doing something in church? Class act.
Here are a few more things Mike refuses to talk about…
Rick Perry was a Democrat up until 1989… A number of his policies are very liberal, in state tuition for illegal aliens refused to piggy back the Az. Immigration law… Perry and Bush did not get along…
He complains about the Patriot Act, but it’s ok to “mandate” healthcare… Not much logic there…
Then what really got me was on his previous blog, he quoted 11.2 million illegal aliens, there is no way in heck to know how many illegal aliens in this country, only a guess, like an alien is going to state the truth on an I-9 forum.
Solyndragate has begun.
How are you going to write off the Solyndra debacle?Solyndra received $500 million as a stimulus kickback from BO for donating to his 2008 campaign. The execs blew the money on vacations and other perks and the company went belly up. Our hard-earned tax dollars wasted.I am interested in hearing your take on this one.
If making a couple of changes to one state is all it takes to win an election, then clearly there's much more wrong with the system as whole than just republicans/democrats.
What is with you is it that you can’t see the light during the day? OMG, the Democrats have more factions than a “Lego set”… Come on Mike, how about some common sense here, all you do is whine and call fouls about the republicans, you act if as democrats walk on water… Well they don’t Mike… Why can’t you be a little more realistic and be honest about all those factions from within your own party… How about just being honest Mike, is that just too much to ask?