• Mike...No, I don't get a charge out of it. You're tellling me that NONE of those cops knew the orders were wrong? Did we not hang a bunch of people way back in 1946 who used the excuse that they were only following orders? Are we going to cut these cops slack because they arent' Germans? We hanged Germans for following orders that were legal under their system, but because we won the war, we used our system and the orders were illegal and they deserved to be executed. Now, more than sixty years later, we tell our cops that orders from their superiors are legal even if they violate the Constitution. I'm not suggesting they should be hanged, but I am saying that they should be held accountable -- suspension or something to get their attention that citizens have rights dammit and just because those citizens don't wear badges doesn't mean their rights can be trashed. If either you or Vet were dragged from your car by the police, handcuffed and told they they wanted to search your vehicle, would you be understanding? When they took off the cuffs because they didn't find anything, would you tell the cop, "Oh, hell officer, that's okay. I understand perfectly. You were just doing your job." or would your next stop be a lawyer?

    June 9, 2012 at 7 p.m.

  • Whoa WWW

    I don't think policemen  following orders are thugs and I like to keep things in perspective and not just sit around and see what words I can put together to get a rise out of people.
    You must get a charge out of doing that!

    The actual thugs had two loaded high powered hand guns on the front seat....Just having a mindset to commit armed robbery tells me that those thugs need to be taken off the street.

    All that other stuff amounts to talking points that really doesn't have any relevance. 

    June 9, 2012 at 4:23 p.m.

  • Mike: "...but I'll be cooperative in another way."

    IF you get the chance. The folks in Colorado didn't get the chance to be cooperative in another way. Remember, when Barney Fife takes the bullet out of his pocket and puts it into the chamber, nobody's safe.

    The money that was stolen was insured and nobody got hurt. Catching these guys wasn't worth throwing away the Constitution. Believe it or not, I WANT to see the bad guys caught and put away. But I have my priorities straight. There is nothing more important than the Constitution. It is worth protecting. Over more than two centuries, hundreds of thousands have died to protect and preserve it and the nation it created. It was never meant to allow a bunch of badge wearing thugs to round up and detain innocent citizens because the police believe it will make their job easier. The Bill of Rights is all about telling government what they may NOT do. Those cops in Colorado walked all over it with golf shoes.

    June 9, 2012 at 4:02 p.m.

  • Vet43

    I understand that some people are more flexible than others but I think it comes down to the level of trust....Having said that,I'm in the house and I know the suspect is not my house,so I don't think it's unreasonable to question their motives....Trust goes both ways and if they tell me that the suspect has been known to enter and hide in the chimney,then I would rethink my position....I've read about DEA and police officers breaking down the wrong doors with a warrant.....Remember the incident when Harvard professor Henry Gates was arrested for braking into his own home? Things can get out hand in a hurry.

    The warrant is to protect you,me,and the police officer and the judge who issued it...If we start giving Carte Blanche then we all become complacent. ...IMO

    I never want to be hand cuffed because of the feeling of being completely powerless;especially if I'm innocent but I'll be cooperative in another way.

    June 9, 2012 at 3:26 p.m.

  • Mike,

    Regarding the Colorado incident, I would bend over backwards to help the police find an armed criminal. As far as the house search if the police are looking for an armed criminal that is in the area, "Come on in, How about a glass of sweet tea?" Other wise show me the warrant.

    June 9, 2012 at 2:36 p.m.

  • wayward

    Before you deem me too mushy or wishy washy,I started out by writing about civil liberties and all levels of government. That doesn't make an expert;just an interested party.

    I find the subject of civil liberties fascinating, I remember a couple of Supreme Court judges discussing whether a passenger in the car can simply walk away and not pay heed to a policeman ordering him to stop. They weren't talking practicality; they were talking constitutional rights and therein lies the difference. I remember a person taking a case to court because he was photographed without his permission. The judge said that " the expectation of privacy ends at your front door." .... And he was right; the government can photograph (and has) a 70,000 seat arena and scanned for suspects.... We'd had the he NSA warrantless surveillance for a very long time, so the literalist is going to upset 365 days a year but I suspect they are all cafeteria literalists these days...:-)

    June 9, 2012 at 1:10 p.m.

  • Wayward

    The United States is a huge country with varying opinions and levels of tolerance. Not every one of us are literalist.

    I am not on this forum to try to impress you or anyone else but I have my opinion on the 4th are 14th amendment and I have seen where you have wanted to make amendments to them for something YOU want.

    If the police want to enter my house, I'm more than likely would ask them to produce a warrant... Depending on the circumstances, my mood and the attitude of the police officer wanting me up open my trunk would have a lot to do on what I would do voluntarily... It's a personal decision and my action will not make the constitution any less enforceable for others. It's an open road agreement between two parties and doesn't hurt your right whatsoever.... I believe we can agree we are 180° apart on every subject known to man, so I never expected you to agree with my point of view but I put up pertinent information for others to see.... I'm analytical ,to a fault sometimes but I'm too many shades of gray to be a literalist.

    BTW the Prius doesn't really have a trunk that will conceal anything.

    As I told someone a long time ago, just because I'm not as adamant about a position as you are, doesn't mean I don't think it's right or wrong.

    That doesn't mean I won't argue every day about where the line is drawn but at my age, I like to think that I know when I'm defeated and have the sense to live to fight the next battle.

    June 9, 2012 at 12:31 p.m.

  • Mile...You don't think this is tad excessive? Handcuffing -- effectively placing them under arrest since they were unable to leave -- simply because they were in the area. AFTER they were taken out of their cars and handcuffed, yeah, they gave consent to the cops searching their cars. Sorta coerced, wouldn't you say? This is EXACTLY what the Fourth Amendment means by "unreasonable searches." Yeah, they did catch the crooks. I suppose if a net is cast wide enough, it will always catch somebody. Investigating a crime or looking for the criminals is never a reason to trample on the Constitutional rights of innocent citizens who are going about their lawful business.

    The chief in Aurora says this is good police work -- legal, that is -- for a "reasonable period of time." He's trying to defend the cops doing the searching. Terry v Ohio in 1968 says the police may conduct warrantless searches under circumstances of less than probable cause under CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES. "In Terry, the Supreme Court ruled that when a police officer witnesses "unusual conduct" that leads that officer to reasonably believe "that criminal activity may be afoot", that the suspicious person has a weapon and that the person is presently dangerous to the officer or others, the officer may conduct a "pat-down search" (or "frisk") to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon. To conduct a frisk, officers must be able to point to specific and articulatory facts which, taken together with rational inferences from those facts, reasonably warrant their actions. A vague hunch will not do."

    Nineteen cars and 40 people hardly meets this requirement. This is more like the "round up the usual suspects" line from Casablanca.

    You wrote: "They all gave consent and were immediately unhand-cuffed when nothing was found."

    Well, one would hope! Since the cuffs were removed when nothing was found, I guess that makes it okay? No harm, no that how it works? Yes, Mike, I'd call this Gestapo tactics. I would sue if it happened to me.

    Mike, this is why I was surprised when you said that a citizen wanting to see a warrant was acting reasonably. I truly believed that you would call it good police work. If you object on Constitutional grounds, I apologize to you for my belief.

    I think it will be very interesting to see what happens when these suspects get before a judge with their attorney. Do you suppose there's a possibility that the judge will decide that the arrest procedures were so egregious that he'll let them go because of them? I think this case is worth watching for just that.

    June 9, 2012 at 11:53 a.m.

  • itisi

    You need to read and understand before posting...My post was NOT directed at you and I disagreed with cattleman’s post. I specifically stated ".It's never a question of not having anything to hide because it's about the expectation of privacy and where that line is drawn."

    I never said I didn't have an infraction on my record; I merely stated that I’ve only been through a couple of checkpoints.

    No, the Arizona law is not any different than what you're talking about because both could be construed as a violation of the 14th amendment. The” due process clause prohibits state and local governments from depriving persons of life, liberty, or property without certain steps being taken to ensure fairness”..It’s a classic double edged sword argument..... People of darker skin are being singled out as possible suspects but you go ahead and believe what you want to because you will ever be in a position to see the other side, but you want people to see your side that check points are a violation of your constitutional rights....Never mind, I don't want to rehash the Arizona law and I never had any hopes of you agreeing but there are others that will read this post and might agree with me. That's who I was targeting with my post.

    June 9, 2012 at 10:57 a.m.

  • waywardwind

    I have to admit that I didn't know anything about that Colorado incident until you brought it up. You left out a lot of pertinent information according to ABC news. I don't know about you but I like to get a lot of information before I get upset.

    1. There was a bank robber involved who was believed to be at that intersection. The police had a virtual certainty the bank robber was in the vicinity of the temporary roadblock.
    2. They did catch the bank robber at a stoplight, at that intersection armed with two high powered handguns.
    3. The police of Aurora, Colorado never had a description of the bank robber, so this type of investigation is lawful according to the police chief, for a reasonable period of time.
    4. About 19 cars and 40 occupants were stopped and handcuffed and asked if their cars could be searched. They all gave consent and were immediately unhand-cuffed when nothing was found.
    5. There is no doubt that it was a questionable decision and some will call it" let the end justify the means." ..Some will call it good police work and some will call it "Gestapo tactics."

    There might be some lawsuits and there might be some happy citizens who were handcuffed and still glad that the bad guy was caught....This what I meant by auditing the system....The authorities will evaluate their actions, as in a routine check point to improve their tactics.

    Unconstitutional? That's for SOCTUS to decide but I doubt they will ever hear the details of this case.

    I've never changed my stance on civil liberties, so that sentence shouldn’t surprise you.

    June 9, 2012 at 10:37 a.m.

  • Mike, and Cattleman,
    I disagree with you gentlemen, it’s not about hiding anything form law enforcement. It’s about a key element “principle,” and without principle we’re in trouble. Laws are created by men and women so therefore there will always be room for argument. It is our job as citizens to question those writers when it comes down to our civil liberties.

    Mike, the AZ law is something totally different. It is a random stop based on a violation in order to further an investigation as to alienage of a person or persons. And I support that law. I do not support driver license check points, because it is creating an inconvenience to me because I am complying with the law. They are blocking my passage without any reasonable suspicion or probable cause (NO VIOLATION), I am very pro-law enforcement. Like you, I’ve been driving a long time as well without any infractions on my record. Like I said there is a basket full of reasons why, but those reasons do not outweigh principle.

    June 9, 2012 at 10:26 a.m.

  • EdithAnn

    You are welcome. Someone had to say it.

    June 8, 2012 at 7:36 p.m.

  • Waywardwind.

    Let me add a few more things as well. You stated that the students at some Catholic school are better than the ones in public school. Well, those schools have problem too, but you won’t hear them because isn’t “sexy” (for a lack of a better word) because those problem affect parents who are not a part of the classic narrative and stereotype. Plus they, unlike public schools, hide their problems.

    There are many women who got “knocked up” in high school who are nurses, teachers, etc so trying to blanket all of them to be failures in life tells me you lack information. No I don’t favor teen pregnancy.

    Mr. J. Williams

    June 8, 2012 at 7:30 p.m.

  • Thanks, Writein. I'm done with WWW--he's being silly now. I'm okay with him having an opinion on this topic, but his blinders have him looking in the wrong direction.

    June 8, 2012 at 7:28 p.m.

  • Waywardwind.

    The problem you have is that you are talking and don’t know nothing. A person my age or someone who is a parent knows what the problem is and have some idea of what is going on. Simply because you don’t have kids, never experience school life in my generation or younger, but only pay taxes doesn’t make you a scholar on this. Maybe you should pay attention to the people who are CLOSER to the problem. Yes I am using a classic Herman Cain line. Edith Ann is right. We have too many outside groups and organizations trying to force agendas down people’s throats. Rick Perry, Tony Perkins, and their agenda with Sex abstinence only plan.

    Maybe you should read….

    1) Conservatives want one to believe that outside forces are the blame. They blame failures on pop culture, music, birth control, and condoms. While displaying half-baked , alarmist, and demagogue attitude towards a “minority” points of view. Conservatives, in recent years, argued that the solution for teen pregnancy is “Abstinence Only” programs. They also believe in mandatory drug testing as a solution to the drug and gangs problems with “No Tolerance Rules” and school uniforms. This does not encourage freedom and privacy of the student nor respect the rights of the parent.

    2) Liberals, progressives, and unions believe throwing money at the problem is the solution. They blame it on the lack of funding, a proper diet, and even parents. They, like conservatives, display Elitist attitude of helplessness. The liberal approach to sex education is as dangerous as that of conservatives. The approach argues that sex should be “taught” by actively applying condoms on fruit, while handing out contraceptives without parental involvement or a lesson in personal responsibility.

    Mr. J. Williams

    June 8, 2012 at 7:10 p.m.

  • EA..."WWW--check the facts. Texas is like 48th in the nation on teen pregnancy and Perry has been gov for a long time."

    Edith, you don't think Govl. Perry is the one who is knocking up all those teenage girls, do you? Kids haveing kids is a societal change and as long as the society is willing to spend tax dollars on the child parents -- day care in school, WIC, welfare, etc -- the pendelum won't swing back. If society isn't going to require the child parents take resposibility for what they created and in some way take the burden off the taxpayer, the kids will have no reason to change their behavior. Teaching them how to use a condom isn't the answer. Withholding social help may. I don't say it will, but it may. Perhaps the child parent's mother (hopefully both parents) will see that the kid's kid is going to cause the family to be harmed economically and will make sure the kid stops at one. At any rate, I don't believe Perry is at fault here, but, maybe a few thousand DNA tests are in order.

    June 8, 2012 at 6:46 p.m.

  • Mike..."I like to think that we are all born with, let's just say 10 liberty cards, and we all agree or a few agree for us, to give up one of them up in time of war (Patriot Act) then another when law enforcement wants to audit their system (4th & 14 amendment) and so now we are down to 8...I don't know about anyone else, but the fact that we are better than China in protecting civil liberties is not a consolation."

    That's a good analogy, Mike, but I'm not understanding what you're trying to get across with the police auditing their system. Not trying to fight, just don't understand. To my way of thinking, the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments always trump whatever the police want to do in variance to them. If the deputy police chief in charge of the traffic division decided to block a major intersection and have his people search every car headed east, he wouldn't have the right under the Constitutiion even though he's the traffic division boss. This is like the incident in Colorado the other day. I hope that whoever came up with that idea loses his job. Every citizen who was pulled from his/her car and handcuffed should file a lawsuit against the police department and the city for violating their rights under the Fourth Amendment to be free from unreasonable search and the Fourteenth Amendment for the cops acting contrary to due process. Everyone doesn't take stuff like that seriously enough. Until every citizen demands that government agents act according to the Constitution, individual citizen's rights are in peril.

    You are absolutely right about being better than China regarding citizen liberties not being a consolation. It's kinda like it smells bad but better than a skunk sprayed dog.

    I will admit to being surprised when you wrote that there's nothing wrong with asking a cop to produce a warrant. If Constitutional rights aren't exercised, they go away -- just like muscle. There's hope for you yet, Mike. :)

    June 8, 2012 at 6:29 p.m.

  • Cattleman..."One visit to China will open a persons eyes to how free we are!"

    Been there done that and you are absolutely correct.
    Same goes for almost every single other country out there, to include our closest allies.

    The same applies to countries such as Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and every other European country you can name.

    The same goes for Japan, The Philippines, South Korea, and every other country in Asia you can name.

    Same for every other country in Africa, South America, North America (Yes.. we are more free than even Liberal Canada)

    America, even with everyone whining and complaining about how bad things are here with control and oversight... America is still the most free country in the world. With all the good (and the bad) that comes with it.

    June 8, 2012 at 6:25 p.m.

  • Cattleman..."One visit to China will open a persons eyes to how free we are!"

    I have no doubt that I am more free than people in China. I have absolutely NO desire to visit to see for myself. I also know that I'm less free than I was twenty and more years ago.

    June 8, 2012 at 6:01 p.m.

  • Civil liberties can be an interesting subject, and everyone has their level of tolerance. This subject could drift off to using drones for civilian police work...It's never a question of not having anything to hide because it's about the expectation of privacy and where that line is drawn.

    We can start with a simple "End-user license agreement" which nearly everyone ignores but that document pretty much states that even though you bought the software; this is how we will allow you to use it.

    I like to think that we are all born with, let's just say 10 liberty cards, and we all agree or a few agree for us, to give up one of them up in time of war (Patriot Act) then another when law enforcement wants to audit their system (4th & 14 amendment) and so now we are down to 8...I don't know about anyone else, but the fact that we are better than China in protecting civil liberties is not a consolation. I don't think that we will ever be like other oppressive countries but the longer rope that we were willing to extend to the authorities the more rope they will take; it’s just human nature. The patrol car video camera is for the protection for the person stopped and for the police officer. Random check points should remain that. .....I don't have a pat answer, but I guess it depends on the situation but there is nothing wrong with exercising your constitutional rights by asking a police officer to produce a warrant...The system could be audited from both sides.

    Has anyone ever read the Patriot Act? I don't think it will never be repelled because we can always redefine the meaning of “being in war."

    June 8, 2012 at 2:05 p.m.

  • In China and a few other countries, farmers are allowed to grow hemp to make clothing, food, textiles, paper, fuel, plastics, and more! Americans are allowed to buy these products from other countries, but not to farm hemp to create our own products. Kinda wild that we are allowed to give money to other countries, but not to generate income here at home.

    "While more hemp is exported to the United States than to any other country, the United States Government does not consistently distinguish between marijuana and the non-psychoactive Cannabis used for industrial and commercial purposes."

    June 8, 2012 at 12:06 p.m.

  • Guess everybody has been inconvenienced by something. I got taken aside at airport security - they didn't offer a reason, nor did I ask.
    Recently I got flagged over at a DUI check. I asked the officer why I was singled out- He said it is a random selection, had nothing to do with me or my car. Asked two or three questions, car was looked over for safety violation - and I was on my way in less than 2-3 minutes.

    It is all ok with me- I would rather see too much monitoring than not enough.

    June 8, 2012 at 12:02 p.m.

  • or Turkey. Turkish students get 8 years in jail for tuition protest

    June 8, 2012 at 11:57 a.m.

  • One visit to China will open a persons eyes to how free we are!

    June 8, 2012 at 11:36 a.m.

  • cattleman

    You are so right; I just heard that we have about 3.3 million jobs in highly technical fields that cannot be filled.

    For security purposes alone, everyone living here needs to be documented. I also agree that the onus is on the students to take the proper steps but unless we update our system, the most talented will either go back home or to a country like Canada where it is much easier...I like vet's E-Verify but that system gets its information from our outdated Social Security database.

    I automatically assume that everyone is a patriot and I will never question it but sometimes we old timers get set in our ways and don't like to deviate for the good of the community.....Now, if the check points become a weekly thing, then I think the next thing will be barbed wire, concrete barriers, and hand held scanners but that's just me.

    June 8, 2012 at 11:28 a.m.

  • Mike - you make a good point - citizenship isn't necessary - papers are. I have worked with some exceptional people from Mexico who were legally here to do the work. Even helped getting the papers by being a sponsor or whatever you call it for some. Certain crafts here in the USA are very short in Americans.
    Guess my point was that the young man could be moving forward to become documented. In no way would I support loading him up and sending him south - but would expect a college student to take the initiative to become documented.

    As for license checks - to me that is no big deal - I drive safety with all the right papers and seat belt on - so what if I am detained a few minutes - I have been in a few and never was rousted out of the car and searched. I agree that there seems to be times when authority reaches to far for to much - but I also always wonder about the people that speak the loudest about that over reach - are they patriots or hiding something?

    June 8, 2012 at 10:56 a.m.

  • Rebecca
    Your invoice is in the mail...:-)

    I had to sign a document to comply with the laws of the Patriot Act when I bought my Prius in 2007....I wonder how the vacationers in Las Vegas felt when all their credit card transactions were scooped up in order to stop a potential terrorist threat.

    June 8, 2012 at 10:42 a.m.

  • itisi

    No disrespect but you stated" when you encounter a check point, you are no longer a random individual driving down the street; you are being detained (free from movement) without reasonable suspicion, and or probable cause, you cannot back up or go around this check point, if you attempt to do that, you will be by definition in violation of law. This is a fourth amendment Constitutional issue, which is overreaching by local, state, and federal authorities."....... I can see where you can call it a fourth amendment violation but I see the 14th amendment being violated but it's hilarious how you adamantly supported Arizona's " papers please" law!....And then they came for me.

    I can relate to the inconvenience of a driver's license/seat beat/DWI checkpoint because I will not be in violation of any of those laws but a civilized society has to randomly audit its enforcement system. Personally, in 50 years of driving, I've only come across two checkpoints and was waived through both times... The first one I was driving a military truck and the second one I was driving a truck for the Texas Highway Department.

    June 8, 2012 at 10:34 a.m.

  • Thank you all for my therapy session. =P

    June 8, 2012 at 10:24 a.m.

  • I blogged about what a headache The Patriot Act was for me when I was flagged. I couldn't renew my driver's license because my name didn't match the name on my social security card; I had First-name Maiden-name Married-name on my driver's license and First-name Middle-name Maiden-name on my social. I couldn't change my driver's license because it didn't match my social and I couldn't change my social because it didn't match my driver's. After all that, the social security office accepted a 20 year old expired college I.D., as proper identification as opposed to my driver's license.


    June 8, 2012 at 10:21 a.m.

  • cattleman

    You took up the mantle as a moderate and I have not found any comments to disprove that, so I am going to hold you to that..That's a heavy cross to bear...:-)

    I want to answer your the question you asked of Nflores "But I do want to understand - do you feel being here illegally is acceptable? And should be given the same status and opportunities as a US citizen? I won't argue with your opinion or even try to change it - just interested in your opinion and where you stand"....... in a much friendlier venue because the winner of that other thread is the poster who says the most vile things.

    First, I do not think that graduate student Luis Zelaya should be confirmed to the student senate because he is not a citizen and it's against the current bylaws of Texas A&M..Clear cut and simple.
    Being here illegally has been encouraged and discouraged at the same time and mixed signals has always been part of the problem. I don't know a thing about Mr. Zelaya but he has the basis of being a productive person and if his story is correct then it would be to this country's best interest in keeping the best and brightest. We have given political asylum to least productive people and his statute of limitations has probably run out.

    Remember the Y2K scare? We fast tracked work visas for software engineers from India. I just saw a commercial from Exxon that stated that we are 25th in math worldwide and we know that we are not graduating enough engineers and scientists. For now, I think we need to extend our H-1B visas for foreign professionals in specialty occupations. I've been watching the PBS show “Need to Know" that showed that we are deporting entrepreneurs who have graduated from MIT because their student visas have run out. Why aren't we doing more to retain those types of people like our neighbor to the north is? Those types of people who employed 25 to 200 people are moving to Canada where they can get employees from Microsoft Canada.

    Citizenship is a different topic and we have come full circle..Remember when the right was throwing a fit when Janet Reno exported Elian Gonzalez back to his father in Cuba?

    June 8, 2012 at 10:20 a.m.

  • ...and who deserves handouts.

    June 8, 2012 at 10:04 a.m.

  • itisi, The Patriot Act makes me angry. Talk about a false sense of security. I had heard that The Patriot Act wasn't about protecting citizens from terrorists, but to control citizens. I didn't think that was true until I was flagged when renewing my driver's license because of The Patriot Act. When I went to purchase a home, The Patriot Act created twice as much paperwork. Making sure women change their name with social security will protect us from terrorists? More paperwork when purchasing a home will protect us from terrorists?

    I agree that there is too much ineffective government intrusion, but it's not emanating from a specific party...

    I see both parties (government) as wanting bigger government. They just disagree on who to limit and who to control.

    June 8, 2012 at 9:56 a.m.

  • itisi,

    Unfortunately, the more the population grows, the more necessity there is in doing things like you mentioned. Lawlessness increases as population increases. Would you rather have your total freedom or let the police do what they think is necessary to curtail crime? When you are trying to decide an answer, think about your children out there on the streets and what is best for their health and safety.

    June 8, 2012 at 9:55 a.m.

  • Mike,
    It’s not about being paranoid, but there are restrictions, its information overload, too many laws, rules, and regulation. I will give one example to try and make a point.
    Driver’s license check point…when you encounter a check point, you are no longer a random individual driving down the street; you are being detained (free from movement) without reasonable suspicion, and or probable cause, you cannot back up or go around this check point, if you attempt to do that, you will be by definition in violation of law. This is a fourth amendment Constitutional issue, which is overreaching by local, state, and federal authorities. So now tell me if you have been restricted from movement, when your intent was to conduct normal business of the day after leaving the humble castle for which you live. You did not volunteer to make a decision to submit to a driver license check point. One can give a basket full of reasons why they do it, but is it legal, and is it overreaching of Government?

    June 8, 2012 at 9:10 a.m.

  • WWW--check the facts. Texas is like 48th in the nation on teen pregnancy and Perry has been gov for a long time.

    In a perfect world, all parents would be attentive to their children and they'd all volunteer at school. But we don't live in a perfect world. So, since a lot of effort by the school district to get parents engaged has been ignored, do we just stop trying differennt avenues?

    Good, bad or otherwise, the school may be the one stable thng in a kid's life. It behooves us to make sure those folks interacting with our kids 8 hours a day or more are the top of the line! We should expect no less!

    We have a school board--they are accountable for the admnistration of the district. I know, it seemed the other way around with Bob Moore, but they hire him, not the other way around.

    Throwing money at the problem only works if the money is truly thrown at the problem. We were promised that new schools would keep the dropout rate down. Didn't work, did it?

    And engaged parents are certainly a plus for a focused kid, but for as many examples of 'good parents=excellent students', I can probabaly give you the same number of examples of kids who beat the odds inspite of homelessness, absent parents, drug addicted parents, whatever.

    June 7, 2012 at 11:15 p.m.

  • No wayward,I'm not always right but if it quacks like a duck,walks like a duck and looks like a duck ,.....I call it a duck.

    I disagree and I'll answer your post tomorrow because I'm getting sleepy.

    June 7, 2012 at 11:08 p.m.

  • Wayward
    I sent a daughter to St. Joe and some of my grand kids have gone there.
    Perhaps,the reason you don't hear what goes on there is good lawyers...It's a great school but comparing 300 students to VISD is not a good comparison....Kids will be kids and they will make mistakes but that doesn't make them the next Al Capone....let me add to the list, one sided Exaggerations don't help.

    June 7, 2012 at 11 p.m.

  • Wayward

     Senator  McCain,Libermann, and Grapham ,the latter as a JAG reserve,have been to Afghanistan more than any one else and serve on the powerful Armed Forces Committee.
     They influence the press and popular opinion at times...They work as lobbist for constant conflict.

    You are just repeating what the right says about this president to minimize his role and importance...He is the lone authority on drone strikes and has on several occasions gone against the advice of his Def. Sec and some military cannot be impeached 
     for making a tactical decision....

    Gay  marriage and pro choice are social issues ..The speed trap issue is a Libertarian issue.
    It's true Liberals are more tolerate on a lot of social issues.
    I believe I have admitted that I was wrong on several occasions but I'm just calling it as I see it.

    If we were to take a sheet of paper and name your positions , your right wing views would outweigh anything else..IMO..I think you are a Libertarian/conservative and there is nothing wrong with that because Libertarians are not big on social issues.

    You align yourself with the right wing on ,fiscal policies,environmental,immigration,energy,education,2nd Amendment,14th Amendment,defense spending, and you are just plain mean-spirited about it..Do you eat nails for breakfast,pickles for lunch and a lemon for diner...:-)

    June 7, 2012 at 10:54 p.m.

  • EA...I don't think this is the fault of Perry or abstinance only sex education. When I was in high school, we had NO sex education except for what we discovered in the back seat of Daddy's Plymouth. The difference is that when I was in high school, we knew -- WE KNEW!!!! -- that if we got a girl pregnant, both our lives were ruined; they were OVER. First, the couple got married and the girl dropped out of school. She could NOT be in school after she started to show. Most of the time, the boy left school also and got a job at a gas station or grocery store and the couple lived with one set of parents or the other. There certainly were no day care centers in teh school. Back then there was a stigma to a girl getting pregnant out of wedlock and it seldom happened.

    Yeah, I'm the guy with no kids and not a day goes by that I'm not grateful for that decision. But, I pay taxes to help support the schools so I'll continue to have an opinion once in a while. I never said it was easy dealing with the bureaucracy at the school district. I'm sure it's a nightmare. All those people have their own little feifdoms and they MUST BE PROTECTED.

    I continue to insist that the solution to the problems in schools begin in the homes. Simply look at the successful students and the vast majority of them will have parents who care and who instill in their kids a desire to learn. There are exceptions, to be sure, where a kid has enough within him/herself to get an education, but I believe the vast majority of successful students come from homes where education is a priority.

    Now---It's a quarter to eleven. I'm going to bed. I have to get up and go to work in the morning and pay social security for my wife, my sister-in-law and Mike. The burden is heavy.

    June 7, 2012 at 10:50 p.m.

  • Waywardwind.

    Irrelevant you say? As long as three headed monster (John McCain, Joe Lieberman, and Graham) is in power, it is relevant. By the way, President Kennedy wanted to break up the CIA before his untimely death.

    Mr. J. Williams

    June 7, 2012 at 10:38 p.m.

  • Mike..."I think the reason we can't make any headway on improving our educational system is that some people are hard wired pessimists...."

    I'm glad you aren't talking about me. I'm not a pessimist. Remember, you said I'm a conservative.

    I've got the solution! We can throw MORE MONEY at the problem. That'll make it all better. We, as a society, just haven't spent enough money on the kids.

    But wait. Howcome we don't hear about problems at St. Jo? When was the last time we heard about bullys and dope sales at St. Jo? Could it be because the parents of the kids who go there care about what their children are doing with their education opportunities? Vet thinks the thugs will be the future leaders of the country. I think it's more likely those leaders will come from places like St. Joseph High School. I certainly hope so anyway.

    June 7, 2012 at 10:34 p.m.

  • Mike.

    The Teacher Unions are Democratic and the inner city is Democratic. Who is hurting who? Most of these issues, problems have been around way before I was born. These problems should have been solved by the time I entered college. Why are we still on this issue? For example, Michelle Rhee ordered new books for the troubling school district to be delivered, but the books remained at the warehouse because the TEACHERS UNION forbade school employees to carry those books inside. It is time to stop the foolishness. Allow me to add the Vet43/Wayward debate to. The problem with education is liberal unions and Christian Conservatives like Rick Perry and Tony Perkins and yes sorry parents.

    Member of the Democratic Party, Yes I have joined it in 2004, but joined Unity08 in early 2008. I also sign the draft Obama petition in East Texas in 2006.

    June 7, 2012 at 10:26 p.m.

  • Mike...".",you might not like to admit your bias but just because you don't attend
    church regularly doesn't mean you don't hold the same views"

    Then why do I catch hell when I write that gay people should have all the rights to marry as anyone else? Or why do I catch hell when I write that women should forever have the choice of whether they will carry a baby to term and give birth or have an abortion? Why do I catch hell when I call a speed trap a revenue enhancement program? I don't look at an issue and seek the conservative side. I look at an issue and decide what I believe. If, in your view, that makes me a conservative, I surrender. Mike, I know you're never wrong, so I must be conservative right down the line. Who woulda thunk it?

    June 7, 2012 at 10:16 p.m.

  • Vet43
    I think the reason we can't make any headway on improving our educational system is that some people are hard wired pessimists....It always starts and ends the same way:

    1. It's the union's fault
    2. The kids aren't any good and either are the parents
    3. Not a penny more
    4. It's this politician or politician party's fault

    It's a national problem and we need to hit the reset button because what we have been doing for decades is no feasible....IMO

    I don't have the answer but the recycled reasons aren't getting us anywhere...IMO

    June 7, 2012 at 10:12 p.m.

  • Mike..."He's there with the rest of the neocons to have influence if Romney gets elected."

    Yeah, IF Romney is elected then McCain is HOPING be will become relevent once again.

    June 7, 2012 at 10:03 p.m.

  • It seems to me that we're BOTH saying that the Fourth Amendment SHOULD have prevented the searches of anyone's car during the Carrasco episode. We just don't want to be seen as agreeing about it.

    I'm NOT trying to deny you or anyone else your constitutional right of voting for whom you wish. What I AM doing is using MY constitutional right to express an opinion -- a constitutionally protected opinion -- about our government. Surely you don't object to that. You will always be able to vote for your prefered candidate because my wishes will not prevail. There will never be term limits for Congress critters.

    I would never try to impress you with trivia, Mike. I wish reality was as sure as your opinion that we will only engage in cyber war. I hope you're right, but I don't think we'll ever be able to get away from having people with rifles and airplanes with pilots going into harm's way.. I would point to Afghanistan. To people who live basically in the fifteenth century, a computer virus is pretty much meaningless. They can kill, though.

    Yeah, I probably am doing a little stereotyping about liberals. I was just having some fun. Sorry 'bout that. As for as "This president just gave the orders to take out another al Qaeda leader" is concerned, what did he do that was so special? He said kill him. Any president would have given the same order. Obama just happened to be in the Oval Office at the time. Any president who wouldn't have given that order would probably be impeached and removed. This makes the fourth thing the president has done I agree with. You may think that Democrats and liberals have never served and died. I have never said such a thing.

    "BTW personal question and you don't have to answer but did you serve"

    No, I didn't. I was 4-F. Even during the Vietnam war, they wouldn't take anyone who only has one kidney and a spine shaped like the rocker on a rocking chair. Not having served, though, doesn't mean I don't support the people in uniform or that I don't love this country and the liberty it provides.

    June 7, 2012 at 9:59 p.m.

  • SWWW,

    So they are special by your definition? Glad to see some blood in that heart. Some folks take a bit longer to get it pumping.

    June 7, 2012 at 9:53 p.m.

  • Writein is correct,Senator John McCain is relevant and he's not campaigning with Mitt Romney because they are best buds...He's there with the rest of the neocons to have influence if Romney gets elected.

    June 7, 2012 at 9:36 p.m.

  • Wayward said "but I am not and will never be "conservative" the way Mike is liberal. It isn't a religion.",you might not like to admit your bias but just because you don't attend 
    church regularly doesn't mean you don't hold the same views....:-). Oh,that comment history gets them every time.

    BTW,former Defense Sec. Gates said we have more than enough equipment to maintain our military status today and the future....don't you trust the pentagon?

    June 7, 2012 at 9:27 p.m.

  • WWW--as to your last comment:

    You mention teen pregnancy. Thank Rick Perry for abstinence only sex ed in our schools.

    Also aren't you the guy who has no kids? That's not to say that you can't have an opinion, but until you have tried to deal with VISD as a concerned parent, I don't think you can fully appreciate the struggle that it is. My experience with PW was early 90's when a guy named Duran was principal. He didn't last any time at all. But to say that the teachers and the staff were open to parental involvement (true, appropriate involvement, not helicopter parenting) would be false. It was very difficult to deal with them. My kid was not a discipline problem, so this is not about my poor baby!

    The news that Richard Wright is coming over to take the principal's job was great news. Additionally, getting a counselor who can relate to the kids as something other than their great-grandmother will help.

    Hopefully the new superintendent will rule VISD with a bit of a firmer grip. The first thing he needs to do is to get rid of site based management. Why do we have so many folks in the Profit Palace if the buck stops on the local campus?

    June 7, 2012 at 9:18 p.m.

  • Wayward
    Carrasco's moral values or lack of them was not my focal point....I stated that Mexican Americans (US citizens) were forewarned Of the consequences of driving near the prison...handcuffed is your issue, but we do not deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.....Skin color or nationality an exception?

    So it's OK to deny me of my constitutional right of using the ballot box to keep sending my elected representative to D.C. ...Is it a cafeteria constitution?

    Are you trying to impress me with military trivia?  Truth is  we will only engage in cyber war 
    And we wiil think twice about it when other countries have nukes...

    "I understand that liberals don't think the world is a dangerous place" Huh?Are you stereotyping,I think you mistaking liberals with your hero Ron Paul...This president just gave the orders to take out another al Qaeda leader....I have always thought that matters of national security were bipartisan....I guess Democrats and liberals have never served or died on the battlefield.

    BTW personal question and you don't have to answer but did you serve?I 

    June 7, 2012 at 9:13 p.m.

  • Writein...I didn't know that agreeing with you was a prerequisite for being conservative. I said I'm not and it's the truth. Now, I DO have some conservative opinions about certain things, but I am not and will never be "conservative" the way Mike is liberal. It isn't a religion with me.

    What about John McCain? He's one man and he is pretty much irrelevant these days.

    What about the military-industrial complex? Yeah, it's big and it spends a lot of money. Is there waste here? Certainly. It's a government run operation and, unfortunately, efficiency isn't as important as taxpayers would like. But -- and this is a BIG but -- Boeing, United Technologies, General Dynamics, LockheedMartin, and the United States armed forces and thousands of small parts suppliers employ a great many people who pay a great deal of money in taxes. The companies I mentioned make outstanding airplanes, tanks, ships and electronic warfare devices that make the American servicemen and servicewomen the best equiped, best supplied, best informed and best fed of any military in the world. They make possible our liberty to bellyache about how much money they spend. The people in the military stand their posts using the equipment supplied by the industrial part of the equation and I am grateful to both for the liberty I enjoy.

    Yeah, we've lost a stealth bomber and stealth helicoptor in action. As the bumper sticker says, "It Happens." All these magical tools the military has would be worthless if they were kept locked in a warehouse because they were too valuable to use. You said the F-35 will be in the Navy. Yes, it will. It will also be in service with the Air Force and the Marine Corps where it will replace the Harrier.

    I'm not sure what advice JFK had about the CIA. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

    June 7, 2012 at 9:09 p.m.

  • Vet...I think teachers want to teach kids. I think teachers want the kids to want to learn. When one or two disrupt a class because they have no desire to learn then, yes, kick them to the curb. The other thirty who want to learn can't when the teacher is spending most of the class time just trying to maintain some semblence of order. What Would Vet Do? You don't like the idea of sending them to an attitude adjustment center. So, do we simply leave them in the classroom and hope for the best? THAT hasn't worked out so far. There are a great many of these kids who simply don't care; who don't want to learn. How many of the girls are mothers by the time they are sixteen? How many of those got pregnant, not by accident, but because they decided for themselves that they were ready to have a kid and had no idea of the consequenses.

    These kids do NOT belong in a regular classroom. They make it impossible for any teaching or learning to be done. They ARE dregs and they will be a drag on the taxpaying citizens for as long as they live. By age sixteen or seventeen, a great many of them are beyond salvage. They will never be productive taxPAYING citizens. They will forever be dependent on either welfare payments or will be in prison where they will also be a drag on the taxpayer.

    June 7, 2012 at 8:45 p.m.

  • Mr. J. Williams

    I didn't say anything about gambling....I meant if my party goes into negotiations with the opposition party; I would be happy with getting 70% of we asked for and even that is negotiable. 

    I don't have the foggiest idea of what you are talking about because education is a lot more than a few individuals or a political party.

    I mentioned that proposal you mentioned in your last sentence in  another venue.

    The party is much more than you,me or any individual....There is the grassroots who lick the stamps,mans the phones,and like the party as it is not what they want it to be....You said you became a member of the party in 2007; don't you think it's a little bit arrogant to want to change the party when you don't put in the work like the true believers do?I don't put in any work for the party but I appreciate the party leaders and those working hard at the grassroots level....As I like to say,you don't have to brag if you are all that because others will notice and proclaim your greatness.

    Climate change is a lot more than partisan politics.

    June 7, 2012 at 8:37 p.m.

  • Waywardwind.

    What you said gave me pause. You can say you are not a conservative all you want, but we hardly agree on anything. You said this, “I don't object… to defense spending is that I enjoy liberty and want to continue enjoying it.” What about the Neo-Cons like John McCain? What about Military Industrial Complex what General Eisenhower was warning America about? Speaking about Russian and Chinese stealth planes, that wouldn’t be made possible if an American Stealth bomber hadn’t crashed in Eastern European during the Kosovo War in 1999. By the way, the F-35 will be in the Navy. If you are so concerned about your liberty then let’s follow JFK’s advice about the CIA. The CIA created these monsters we fight today.

    Mr. J. Williams

    June 7, 2012 at 8:23 p.m.

  • Mike...I remember when Carrasco (sorry, I'm not politically correct enough to give him a "Mr.") tried to break out of the Huntsville Hilton. Mostly what I remember was that innocent people died along with him and his band of thugs. As for as the roadblocks, I don't think anybody got handcuffed, but the Fourth Amendment would have prevented the car searches if the police remembered that the Constitution trumps a police captain. Yes, the Colorado incident was the exception rather than the rule, but the point was that government agents get power happy and when those agents carry guns, the Constitution can take a beating.

    I don't think amending the Constitution to provide for term limits to Congress is a bad thing. It's certainly no worse than term limits for the president. The difference is, Congress could do that to the president. They won't do it to themselves.

    Yeah, Snoopy and the Red Barron are gone. Not too many Sopwith Camels and Fokker tri-planes flying any more. Nor do I expect to see a toe to toe carrier battle between us and the Chinese. However, carrier battle groups ARE an effective way to project power. Every president since Eisenhower, when faced with a crisis, has asked the Navy, "where is the nearest carrier?" Well, maybe not THIS president. Air Force runways are two miles of concrete and can't be moved. Navy runways are 1,100 feet long and can move at more than 40 miles per hour. By being in the area they are needed, they can put ordinance on a target more quickly than the Air Force. There are several choke points between the Persian Gulf and oh, say, Japan that can be controlled by an aircraft carrier standing off a couple hundred miles. I understand that liberals don't think the world is a dangerous place, but a strong military can make it a lot safer.

    June 7, 2012 at 8:22 p.m.

  • stillthewaywardwind,

    I have a problem with the "kick them to the curb" solution. If our teachers have a problem I understand. Do you think they want to teach only those that are not "dregs"? When our teachers give up on the those that are off the curve maybe we should hand the kid a shovel or a gun and say "see you later because you are below par". If that is the path of our nation is on it is time to pray for a really big comet. Time to regroup before the "Moops" take us over.

    June 7, 2012 at 8:17 p.m.

  • Mike.

    I am puzzled that you are willing to gamble your “70 %” for the remaining 30. After listening, watching and rethinking the policies, statements and rationale of Nancy Pelosi, Sheila Jackson Lee, Maxine Waters, and other national Democrats, I think this lowly Black male in South Texas have more horse sense than any of them. Yes, Carbon gases trap heat, but that shouldn’t mean liberals or the Green Hippie Movement ignore Surface temp. on each Planet in the Solar System.

    Let’s talk about your fifth paragraph. My statement about New York and California was about Social issues like Gay Marriage, culture, and other things. In the terms of Education, let me say this. Michelle Rhee, who was fighting the fools at D.C., is a DEMCORAT. Minorities, especially in the inner city, need better educational systems and reforms, but it is the Teacher Unions blocking that. In the terms of these silly tests, I blame that on Ross Perot and Texas governor Mark White, who is a Democrat. My argument about education isn’t about party politics. It is about experiencing stupidity. Sheila Jackson Lee’s district has more dropouts than any other district in Texas. This is why I am supporting Maurice Duhon, Jr (aka rapper Cornbread) to beat her.

    You said that you don’t know whether I am staying above the fray or allying with Republicans and conservatives. If I want to stay above the fray as you say, then I would remind silent. I will never join the Republican Party or be a conservative especially when Rick Perry, the Neo-Con, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Clarence Thomas, and Walter Williams are the talking heads. Here is a clue to you. I am taking a page from Dale Zuck’s book…..”We can change a party.”

    Mr. J. Williams

    June 7, 2012 at 8:01 p.m.

  • Vet...Yeah, there are dregs. I'll bet any teacher in VISD can point them out to you. Many have joined gangs and are selling dope to other kids who may also become dregs. From your post, it seems that you want to take the little darlin's and cuddle them so they will forget their dope and stealing and assaulting habits and become student council leaders and grow up to be community organizers and then, who knows, maybe they can be elected president.

    I wonder...just what DO you want to do with them. You didn't like my suggestion, so what would you do?

    June 7, 2012 at 6:37 p.m.

  • Our education systems have "dregs"? That there are folks that feel these children are throwaways may be a large part of our problem. Would that include special needs students? Maybe we could rank them by family income or shoe size. The child we pass by could be the man or woman that may lead our nation one day.

    June 7, 2012 at 12:33 p.m.

  • No apologies necessary cattleman I think we should all take heed in your message of understanding and compromise.

    Yes,those smoke filled rooms where Reagan-Tip O'Neill ,Orin Hatch-Ted Kennedy and LBJ -Fulbright made monumental deals for America..back to those days when President Eisenhower's Nation Highway was not considered socialism.

    BTW I get it;my grandsons helped me do some chores but every chance they got, they went back to texting..;-)

    June 7, 2012 at 11:54 a.m.

  • To address the young peoples connection to the cell phone and texting - it does drive me crazy at times when I find out that two young people have been texting each other - when they are sitting at adjoining tables. In my youth - we drove down the highway shouting at each other with open windows - my parents thought that was pretty stupid. Fact is the younger generation are sure a lot more electronic, software and hardware savy that I am.
    It also bothers me the way they dress - but they aren't to keen on how I dress either - lets get past that and talk to them!

    Those video game jockeys are our next drone pilots - who will take the war on terror to the terrorists and not endanger a single pilot - those kids hand-eye coordination is amazing. I thought I was pretty good with a pinball machine.

    Times change - us old geezers need to embrace our youth - get to know them - they are some great people and do hold the future. Some of my education growing up was from my dad's and granddad's friends - they took time to share their wisdom. When was the last time one of us spent some time with that tatooed kid with his cap on half cocked - playing angry birds on his phone? Don't complaint until you have invested some time.

    Sorry Mike - not sure this fit your blog - just where I found to share my thoughts.

    As for Washington - oh how I long for the great days of the statesmen/women that made deals in the smoke filled rooms - that move America forward!

    June 7, 2012 at 11:42 a.m.

  • wayward

    Your example of overzealous police work in Colorado is the exception rather than the rule wouldn't you agree? In 1974 , I remember when Federico "Fred" Gomez Carrasco created a 11 day stand in his planned escape out of Huntsville.. The prison authorities fearing that Mr.Carrasco's friends from Mexico were going to try and help him in his efforts, blockaded all entrance and exit roads leading into Huntsville and warned all Mexican Americans that they would be singled out, searched and questioned , if they were in the vicinity of the prison. I don't remember all the details but the warning was fodder for the talk shows of that time. Now, since you would not have been searched, I believe you would have approved of the tactic.

    You have mentioned that you admired Ron Paul because he stood for the Constitution but you want to amend the 22th amendment (again) to deny people wanting to continue sending their representatives back to Washington time after time via the ballot box and impose term limits and take away benefits that were voted and signed into law on your whelm.

    I don't think the politicians nor is the pentagon completely irresponsible; they're on top of our threats and will not defund any efforts to keep us safe. It's been my opinion for a long time that no country will attack us nor will we attack any country that has nuclear weapons.... I use the word attack in a conventional way because we will still use and improve our cyber warfare capability... I think the days of " Snoopy and the Red Baron" and "Midway" are pretty much over.


    I was born free and I don't feel any restrictions as I go about doing my business as I normally do. I'm not that paranoid about violating any laws, rules or regulations.

    Perhaps assuming that young people texting are on some kind of government assistance is the reason we can't get at the root of the problem. Thinking that people have to assimilate to your standards might also be a source of the problem.

    I guess you don't agree with former President Ronald Reagan when he said government was the problem not the solution...
    We agree on the general problem but not on the culprits of today... I will admit under the same circumstances the Democrats MIGHT try to use the same tactics as they have in the past but I can't think of a single plan(not even the generally agreed upon transportation bill) can get passed in today's House of Representatives where legislation usually begins or ends..... I have said if it were left to John Boehner there would have been a bipartisan bill passed. We were this close {finger & thumb 1/25 in. apart} from getting a deal done but 88 Tea Party members balked.;felt the power and that's where we are today.

    June 7, 2012 at 11:17 a.m.

  • John Lara

    You had a lot to say but I will center on this statement “The whole idea, that the private sector can do better than the government is right, at destroying America. The private sector has a place in society, but it is not at governing in the interest of the American people"

    You certainly are entitled to your opinion but I would rephrase it this way... That are a few things government can do better because they're not pursuing a profit...i.e. FEMA- but that's not to say that they don't make colossal mistakes like Katrina... I believe if fire departments were privatized, we would have another incident like we did a few years ago in Tennessee where fire fighters stood by and watched a house burn down because the tenet hadn't paid his dues or something like that.... I'm a proud capitalist but I'm not loyalist just because I have a vested interest in their success... I also know that when the BP incident created the worst environmental spill in our history which had 11 men killed and then produced an elementary Xerox copy of a response plan; deep oil drilling industry needed a moratorium and updated regulations.

    I like a lot of your sayings because they made me think. I'll close with a couple of examples of where we are today.... This morning, Joe Scarborough, the host of "Morning Joe" was throwing a fit because the front page of the New York Times had a story about Mitt Romney's wealth. He went on for about 10 minutes saying that he caught flak from his conservative buddies because he has said that the NYT was the best newspaper in the world but they should be ashamed for getting into the partisan muck.... A few minutes later, the lesser host, Willie Geist , interrupted him and read a story from his iPad, where the New York Times had done a similar story on John Kerry....My point; make sure you have all your eggs in you basket before making a fool yourself on national TV.

    Yesterday, BigJ (aka Justin Williams, writein) ripped into me because he thought liberals needed to make more concessions and that they are pulling down the president and the party. I tried to make a case for standing by principals and this is the reason why:

    December 19, 2008 Mitt Romney wrote an editorial for the National Review (no liberal rag) that now was a time for a huge infrastructure project because the recession was in dire need of a stimulus. He emphasized the need to rid our dependence on foreign oil and said it was more than appropriate to start investing (that's spending in conservative talk) in renewable energy..... Now that was 3 1/2 years ago and he was on the same page as most economists but now Romney is saying that Obama was wrong for doing what he proposed in 2008.

    June 7, 2012 at 10:54 a.m.

  • Mike said: "It's a crying shame that a lot of the experts are now saying that one party had to take complete control in order to get anything done. The opposition party has found ways to obstruct".

    Truer words have never been spoken. I have never been more disgusted with our political system than I am at this point. I always believed our country would eventually see a different system of government but I really believed it would be long after I was gone from this earth. I now believe it is likely to occur much sooner, most likely out of necessity. What we have now is clearly broken and for the most part ineffectual. Most of the politicians in Washington act more like children than adults...and I am talking about politicians from both parties.

    June 7, 2012 at 9:05 a.m.

  • This whole phenomenon that conservatives are anti-government is totally bogus. Government is a necessary Evil. We may have been born free, but we have a heck of a heavy chain rapped around our necks when we depart the castles for which we live. Now, we have to an onboard computer to take a vacation or just go to the dang store so that we do not violate any rules, regulations or laws.

    Our present day school system (SUCKS), they’re no longer institutions of higher learning, it’s like going to the Mall on a Saturday afternoon to find nothing but zombies of social media. From the ridiculous clothing they wear to the Cell phones stuck in their ears, if they would spend as much time on education as they do texting, the opportunities in life would become much easier and perhaps maybe they wouldn’t be so dependent on Government support.

    June 7, 2012 at 8:06 a.m.

  • No one has a sense of humor, huh?

    Pres. Ronald Ratscum, preached "deregulation" and "private sector over government", which was a bunch of crap.

    The financial mess at the time, resulting from deregulation and Republican's paid off by the private sector, was a consequence of organize crime influence in government.

    Don't believe me, some of those prosecuted had direct connects to the traditional mafia.

    The whole idea, that the private sector can do better than the government is right, at destroying America. The private sector has a place in society, but it is not at governing in the interest of the American people.

    If you believe that, you are a liar or stupid, maybe dumb.

    If you think that the government doesn't care about you, but the private sector is going to do better for you then what opinion should I have of you?

    Liar, dumb, or stupid pick one.

    The government's currency, is votes. It really does not matter how much the private sector pays into campaigns or directly to the hands of politicians. Votes, make you or break you.

    Speaking from a very large family, to say the least. Being influential, means having power to press upon elected officials, one way or another.

    The mafia has an old philosophy, "when presented take the open or closed hand, that is your only choice."

    If you want to make a difference, then garner as many votes as you can and establish yourself strong in the hearts and minds of those who support you. My approach is simple, be my worst enemy and most of those who remain will be loyal when it counts.

    Why I don't place politicians in high esteem, I place people.

    A man's position in my eye, is based on his worst. If you can handle the worst that someone is, then you will value the best that much more.

    President Obama will win, because at the end of the day that is the right thing for America and most Americans will place country first.

    June 7, 2012 at 1:28 a.m.

  • EA..."So where is the root of the problem in the not so great schools?"

    Uhhhh, just a guess, but I'd say just off the top of my bald head, the homes. And, I'm guessin' here again, no matter how much federal money you dump into the system, the bad schools will stay that way UNTIL you get the ones who don't want to learn out of the school and give the one's who do want to learn a chance. Now, what do we do with the dregs? I don't know. I know they shouldn't be in the mainstream classrooms, but I don't know where they should go. Perhaps an attitude adjustment center that includes LOTS of running.

    June 6, 2012 at 9:08 p.m.

  • EA
    I agree if I only had a nickel for all those straight- down- the -middle moderates but some are obvious right wing Ron Paul Libertarians, social conservatives, or just plain GOP conservatives. The independents are fiscal conservatives because being for gay marriage is not necessary liberal but it goes with a more over all view of being more tolerate than the anti this or that..Yes, most of us are shades of gray but we do have some ideologues and fundamentalist in the forum.

    I didn’t think you were being sarcastic but more in line with the hyperbole that's used in some examples to prove their side is correct.

    There are ideology tests out there and I think some people would be surprised (if they are truthful in their answers) of where they line up on the scale...Using that scale on basing it on some comments, I don't think that our conservative county has that many liberals who participate in our forum....Some think they have Liberal views but it's not something you turn off or on; same way for conservatives and Libertarians.
    Yes, a lot of people think they are above the fray...some don’t know or care...:-)

    June 6, 2012 at 8:41 p.m.

  • WWW--no offense was taken. Just seeking clarification as I said.

    As to the schools, we probably won't be able to discuss this. You and I have different views as to where the root of the problem lies.

    Think about this--there are many outstanding public schools in this state and this nation. Probably 100% of them receive government funding at some level.

    So where is the root of the problem in the not so great schools?

    June 6, 2012 at 8:31 p.m.

  • EA...I know it wasn't directed to me, but I didn't know that was requierment to comment. If I offended you, I am sorry. It seemed to me that your questions were pure sarcasm. I mean, even an anarchist would call the fire department.

    So, what do you think? Are school kids better educated today with all that federal money, zero tolerance and oversight? Or, do you believe, as I do, that there really ARE some kids who deserve to be left behind? The trouble makers, the truants, the ones who use drugs and the ones who threaten teachers and other students are keeping kids who want to learn from doing their best. I believe that those should be weeded out and sent to a place where they won't interfere with the education that the good students are working toward.

    June 6, 2012 at 8:19 p.m.

  • WWW--I really wasn't trying to be cute and I really wasn't asking you. You have been pretty consistant with your views on how much government you like.

    As to the others, it is hard to have a conversation on topic when I don't know where folks stand. They need to make a statement that is more definitive than "liberals love big government. I'm not a liberal." Trying to get a gauge, that's all.

    June 6, 2012 at 8:03 p.m.

  • Cattleman...I'm like you, a mixture of conservative and liberal. Heck, there are even some things I don't care about at all. My motto is, "Neither my left nor my right knee jerks."

    June 6, 2012 at 7:41 p.m.

  • Writein..."Wait a second........if conservative hates government then why do they favor increases in .....drum roll please............ Defense/military spending and growth?"

    Well, J, I am not a conservative, but the reason I don't object as much as some liberals to defense spending is that I enjoy liberty and want to continue enjoying it. I know that China is building a blue water navy to challenge the U.S. Navy. I know that China is also deploying ballistic weapons with image recognition capabilities to allow the warheads to recognize, for example, a carrier and target it rather than a frigate. I know that Russia, China, and Iran are getting too friendly for comfort. I know tha the USS Enterprise, the world's first nuclear powered aircraft carrier is being retired and there isn't a replacement in the graving dock.

    I know that the Russians are deploying a new generation of fighter plane. Will it be as good as the F-22 or the F-35? Don't know. I suspect that the American planes are better -- especially since they employ stealth technology -- and the pilot training is probably much better. I do know that the US Navy doesn't have a stealth fighter on their carrier decks and they should.

    Is there waste in the military? Of course, there is. Is it as bad as, for example, in the Department of Homeland Security? I'll let you make up you own mind on that. I suspect your answer would be different from mine. I do know that the taxpayer gets a lot of bang for the buck from the military. Navy ships are designed and built to last about 50 years and they generally do. The Air Force is still flying B-52s that were developed in the 1950s. The C-130 made its first flight in 1954 and is still in production. The Marine Corps, always sucking hind uhhh, mammary, will finally get a replacement for their aging AV-8B Harrier jets when the F-35 gets into service, but that will be a while yet. The Army is using updated versions of the M-16 rifle which went into service in the Vietnam War. They've got some really cool helicopters with stealth capability, but those secrets have been compromised with the loss of one in Pakistan when President Obama killed Bin Laden.

    I know that the American military costs taxpayers a LOT of money, but they are far more important to the safety of this nation than universal medical care and meals at schools during the summer.

    June 6, 2012 at 7:26 p.m.

  • EdithAnn...You're being just too cute. I have seen NO comments on this forum anywhere from conservatives or anyone else that there should be NO government. If my house was on fire, I'd call 9-1-1 to get the fire department here. If I was in a terrible accident, I'd hope someone would call 9-1-1 and get an ambulance and EMTs to me. If someone broke into my house, I'd call my insurance company. I'd notify the police for a case number, but I'd have very little hope that they would catch the thief. What I want -- and I hope everyone else wants -- is the least government compatible with indivudual liberty and safety and public service. For example, do you think school kids today are better educated after the federal government has thrown hundreds of millions (billions?) of dollars at schools along with the attendant rules, required tests and regulations?

    Do you think the people were well served by government in Colorado a day or so ago when a bank was robbed and the local cops blocked traffic, forced all the adults out of their cars and HANDCUFFED them before asking politely if the citizen would mind if the cops searched their car? After the suspects were identified, the citizens were un-cuffed and allowed to go on their way. This is government run amok. I don't like government when it does things like this. Closer to home, a man could have died because a deputy sheriff killed the citizen's implanted pacemaker. Government and its' employees need to remember who the bosses are. Just because cops interact with criminals a lot, DOES NOT MEAN that anyone not wearing a badge is a crook. Every government employee (from the president on down) should understand and live by the motto: "Protect and Serve." If they can't then they should find another job.

    Legislators should not be able to make a career of public office and they certainly should not have generous retirement benefits. They should serve for a couple of terms and go back home to live under the legislation they passed.

    June 6, 2012 at 6:53 p.m.

  • Writein

    My reply shouldn't puzzle any one because I've been consistent with my principles but I have evolved on some issues of less importance. I have never implied that I was 100% correct but I used my time on this forum to express my views in a form of a comment or a blog. I don't a have any illusions that I can change anyone's mind. ****Disclaimer**** the views I submit on this forum are my SOLE opinions and I will never claim to represent the Democratic Party,Liberals/Progressives, or anything else.

    I don't think you have ever read any of my blogs because I think more than any other poster; I have called for bipartisan solutions because that's the way our system works best. For example, I'm pretty certain that Social Security could be made solvent for the next 75 years, in just a couple of days but it's going to take buy in from both parties. Then party leaders will work to continue to improve it.

    In a way, well... (your way or the highway) you are saying that your are smarter than the Democrats who have read the platform, agree with most of it, and will try hard to uphold it. I don't think the solution is to make the Democratic Party more Republican.

    I didn't come to my views on energy, climate change, health care, in a vacuum. I'm saying that carbon is a pollutant and the Supreme Court and the defense department agrees. I'm also saying that it's a heat trapping gas and science agrees.

    So, you agree with the letter writer of a few days ago because you're blaming the failed education systems of decades, on the Democratic Party when several GOP administrations have followed since the actions of President Johnson. I don't think you can lecture New York and California when Texas ranks at the bottom in education.

    I don't know if you are trying to improve your alignment with conservatives and the Republican Party or if you are making an effort to be above the fray and say “a pox on both your houses."...Either way it's not working with me because I think you are very opinionated and you're just looking for a new home. There's nothing wrong with that.

    Don't mistake public statements to always be the bargaining points of a serious negotiations.

    You might check out the GOP debates where all the presidential candidates would not agree to $1 in revenue for $10 in spending cuts or the one where Ron Paul was asked of what we are supposed to do if someone did not have health insurance and the crowd yelled out "let him die."...I'm comfortable with my party's stance ;thank you very much.

    June 6, 2012 at 2:27 p.m.

  • Cattleman.

    I am like you. I am struck in the middle.

    June 6, 2012 at 12:31 p.m.

  • Getting back to reality, we know that nothing will get done in Congress between now and election time and whatever the jobs number and its trend on Labor Day will probably be the determining factor on who will be elected POTUS.

    Between now and then it will be about politics.... Yesterday, I was reminded of how skillful and masterful of a politician former president Bill Clinton still is. He can use the words of Frank Lutz of the right and the issues of the left and merge them together into a simple comprehensible message that resonates with the middle class.

    He was hitting on all cylinders saying that the right is saying that Obama is trying to turn the United States to be like socialist Europe. He said "don't let them fool you; they want to impose austerity like Europe which will have the same results as Europe." He went on to say “Europe has a 11% unemployment (and growing) and we have a 8.2% unemployment with 27 consecutive months of job growth. The choice is simple." President Clinton also criticized Congressman Allen West who said that 80 members of the Democratic Caucus are communist sympathizers, saying “We haven't seen a communist in decades; yet no one in GOP leadership is doing anything to stop this and the birther nonsense."

    The man has credibility because as he said,he presided over 4 budget surpluses. He raised taxes and worked with the opposition party to reduce spending and then had the sense to get out of the way and let the market do its thing.

    That message will do well in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan where a revived auto industry is paving the way for those state’s recovery.

    June 6, 2012 at 10:35 a.m.

  • Good post cattleman

    I've been trying to hammer home your message " identify the issue and work the issue" for six years. I might add that the word "compromise" is not a dirty word.

    I am a partisan Democrat but I'm not an ideologue; I can live with 70%...:-)

    June 6, 2012 at 9:41 a.m.

  • Everyone loves labels - call me a "modeconiberal" - moderate on some issues - conservative on some issues - liberal on some. One size fits all government doesn't work - identify the issue and work the issue.

    Problem is that if a conservative agrees that a liberal has a good idea - he is toast at the ballot box. And the other way around too.

    I happened to have believed in both LBJ and Reagan - seems I don't have a home in politics.

    Nothing will change as long as party lines are more important than our future.

    June 6, 2012 at 6:52 a.m.

  • Wait a second........if conservative hates government then why do they favor increases in .....drum roll please............ Defense/military spending and growth?

    Mr. J. Williams

    June 6, 2012 at 2:57 a.m.

  • Edith Ann.

    I highly doubt the either of the local conservatives would answer your question honestly. Let me hush my mouth before someone accuse me of starting a spat.

    Mr. J. Williams

    June 6, 2012 at 2:49 a.m.

  • I have a question for the conservatives posting here.

    If your house caught on fire, who would you call?
    If you were in a terrible accident and needed medical attention, who would you call?
    If your house was broken into and you were robbed, who would you call?

    I'm just wondering.

    June 5, 2012 at 11:14 p.m.

  • Then you have your "Cantankerous Conservative" to even out the playing field. This would be a "fact" I just invented. Can I get an "Uh-rah"?

    June 5, 2012 at 9:45 p.m.

  • On (wild) Bill Clinton, his first two years he ran as a man championing the middle class values, but he violated that pledge when he was seen as making the issue of gays in the military his first priority in office. Surely you remember that, and he had a problem with feminist you know the “bean counters,” so do you recall that? That is why I’m saying Obama has a problem over the gay issue. I just don’t think we’ve made it quite that far yet.

    Contemporary liberal, let me try this. The contemporary liberal approach is that it amounts to middle class welfare. Maybe not a good choice of words, but it seems to fit for this day and time.

    June 5, 2012 at 5:42 p.m.

  • cattleman, I’m honored to be thought of that way and I agree with your grandfather's outlook.

    We have a representative democracy/republic, so it up to the 535 members of Congress to debate and vote on legislation but the president can influence using the bully pulpit. As I told an old conservative friend of mine the other day “you can’t complain about the president's spending because he can only spend what the GOP controlled House appropriates." That wasn't a literal statement because I know he has some executive powers but it got my point across, because he's a smart man, so he knows how our system works.

    June 5, 2012 at 2:33 p.m.

  • itisi

    I have to admit I don't have the faintest idea of what you are talking about. What is a contemporary liberal? That's a rhetorical question because the last polls I have read only 20% of those polled, say they are bona fide liberals. Those Labels have evolved and don't have much meaning...For example, watch a conservative's ad (local, state, or national) or read their political sign. Every one of them will tout their conservative credentials i.e. “fiscal conservative" and some with pose with their guns.... Not so for those left of center. They are generic in nature. Bottom line, you can't make a group of people adopt a label just because the group you identify with chooses to do so.

    By the gay issue I'm assuming you're talking about marriage equality and “middle class" is a monetary distinction. I believe all stripes fit that equally.

    Again, I’m assuming you are referring to President Clinton (wild Bill) but he never moved anywhere. He was from the state of Arkansas, so he came in as a moderate Democrat and learned how to manipulate speaker Gingrich. I've seen where several pundits have noticed that Republicans are praising President Bill Clinton today but we were around in 1992 when his opponents accused him of murder etc.

    How ironic, President Obama doesn't understand the middle class when he just finished paying off his student loans as he started running for office. On the other hand, the man you are supporting (Mitt Romney) says that students should get a $20,000 loan from their parents to go to college... I wouldn’t even have to consult a poll to know the results of “what candidate identifies most with a middle class?"

    June 5, 2012 at 2:14 p.m.

  • Just remembered my grandfather - you made me think of him Mike! Not that you are that old - he has passed now.
    But he was a big time campaigner for local elections - he was independent and you would see both party signs in his yard and on his place of business. He campaigned for city, county, state, and US representatives/senators.
    I asked him once before he died why I never saw a Presidential candidate sign - His quote: "Who gets to be President doesn't mean a rip! He can only do what the other guys I send to Washington will let him do! That is why I get involved with the people who really represent Texas."

    June 5, 2012 at 2:12 p.m.

  • I took the wife to lunch; came back to find that a lively civil discussion broke out..:-)

    cattleman, I can sympathize with your information concerning the Internal Revenue Service but they are way understaffed. I have read where their audits have dropped off dramatically because they don't have the personnel; with that comes uncollected taxes... I don't know where the happy medium is.

    I just saw where 60-65% where Wisconsin's registered voters will vote, surpassing the 2010 turnout. That's democracy at work, win or lose, handle it at the ballot box.

    Can we really blame a Federal Agency if five agents have to cover a 2500 square mile area? We can blame them if a lot of them are hanging on waiting on retirement. I have no doubt there we have a bloated government but we have 535 Congressmen that need to get together and find the waste instead of continuing to play the blame game. I heard that Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) has made a list and written a book about Fed waste but I don't see any legislation or hearings to take up the issue.

    It's a crying shame that a lot of the experts are now saying that one party had to take complete control in order to get anything done. The opposition party has found ways to obstruct.

    It doesn't matter to me of how much blame is put on the president but I can never lay the entire blame on him, if he is not allowed to follow through 80-100% with his agenda.

    June 5, 2012 at 1:42 p.m.

  • I had read the book “The Affluent Society” 25 or 30 years ago, but I certainly have a better understanding on its take and the publisher John Kenneth Galbraith, after a re-read. Another book which was very interesting is “The Theory of Moral Sentiments” by Adam Smith. Those books along with others have certainly given me a much better approach at trying to understand the contemporary liberal.

    BTW, I think Obama has lost the middle class over the Gay issue. It sure did hurt Wild Bill until he moved to the center. And I don’t think Obama really knows where the middle class is at this juncture.

    June 5, 2012 at 1:01 p.m.

  • I will go with my statement that we need "some" efficient government. We do need EPA, FAA, FCC, DOT, etc. to regulate - we sure can't go back to open range policy.
    But I don't need them regulating the belches and gas passed by my cows - and if they do - the cost just passes on to you guys.
    It also frustrates me to deal with some government agencies - such as the IRS - in a recent audit I received a letter from Mr. A. I responded. Mr. A. forwarded my responce to Mrs. B. Who replied to me and copeid Mr.A. Mr. A. responded to me saying the Mrs. B. had replied to me. Well this went on through Mr. E. Get the picture? Well when Mr. E. wrote that after careful review mr return was in deed correct and that they had double dipped on some funds I had withdrawn from an insurance policy - thus I owed nothing. I now have five letters from the IRS saying all is well. Not very efficient, but we are keeping lots of people employeed.

    We need efficiency and as for who is elected - this is going to be a nasty election.

    June 5, 2012 at 12:57 p.m.

  • I agree with vet. We cannot remove all the watchdog agencies, or think China and gasmasks.
    Corporate America could care less about the safety of it's workers, or the air and water quality. They'll just come in and basically rape whatever, and whoever, they want to.

    I'm not going to sit on these forums and argue who is going to get elected or who is not. It will be what it will be. Let's just hope that the voters at least have enough common sense to NOT put one party in total and complete control. Now that would be a disaster.

    June 5, 2012 at 12:41 p.m.

  • I am and have been a moderate independant since I first voted over 40 years ago. I agree that there are many parts of "big government" that really could use a major do-over.

    But the idea of completly "kicking to the curb" of EPA, OSHA, FAA, SEC is a plan to make us a 4th world nation.

    June 5, 2012 at 12:17 p.m.

  • Beakus,that didn't take long and by the conservative Wall Street Journal no less.

    "A series of emails obtained by the Wall Street Journal reveals Romney was actively engaged in negotiating the specifics of the 2006 Massachusetts bill and that he and his top aides championed a provision identical to one in President Obama's law requiring individuals to have or buy health insurance.

    The so-called individual mandate is at the heart of most conservative criticism of Obama's health care law, with many Republicans calling the provision unconstitutional. But in 2006, emails obtained by the Journal under a public records request show, Romney and his top aides pressed for an individual mandate even when Massachusetts Democrats weren't yet embracing such a proposal."

    It's going to interesting to see the and hear the spin on this revelation.
    I knew that Romney purged most of his emails but he forgot some..;-_)
    There's a good rumor that the Obama Chicago political machine is sitting on tons of info that will used at the proper time...Hint,tapes from the 23 GOP debates.

    June 5, 2012 at 12:09 p.m.

  • Oh, I’ve heard the same rhetoric from disgruntled Republics;"the party left them" and they are right in some ways... After civil rights, the southern conservative Democrats became Republicans and the north east liberal Republicans became Democrats.

    I believe you're wrong on the teachers' unions in Wisconsin because they had already agreed that some concessions would have to be met..At the time of the fiasco, the firefighter’s policemen and teachers unions saw the handwriting on wall. I think you're discounting or don't know about the tape that was discovered where Governor Walker admitted to his 1/2 million dollar donor that his goal was to "divide and conquer." ... I think that people that have looked at this issue understand the situation because Ohio tried the same thing and South Carolina governor, Niki Haley, has said that her number one objective is to bust the unions.... I think the election will be close where the governor, lieutenant governor and four GOP senators are up for recall. Governor Walker has to win because he is outspending his opponent 25-1 with outside money. It's funny how 88% of the political contributions that are coming into the state of Wisconsin, are from outside sources. 62% of Walker's money and 26% of Mayor Tom Barnetts....The Dems just need one of the GOP senate seats to retake the senate because a previous election gained them some seats. Gov. Walker can't do anything more to the unions because there are equal numbers of Dems and Reps. in the Wisconsin senate right now and since one Republican that could break a tie has vowed not to vote to break up the unions.

    June 5, 2012 at 11:33 a.m.

  • Agendas have evolved. I agree with you that unions were needed when created. The free market created unions. It is a free country. The policies that they forged were righteous goals. Those goals were accomplished. But it is always more now. In Wisconsin, teacher unions storming the capital because they do not want to contribute to their retirement or health insurance premiums is very Greeceian. My grandfather told me before he passed away that he did not leave the democratic party, they left him. Things run in cycles. I think you will see the unions put down tonight in Wisconsin. It is time to go to work.

    June 5, 2012 at 11:07 a.m.

  • I am not that talented; I don't have the ability to coin a phrase. I get the opinion that today's conservatives had been anti-government every since Ronald Reagan coined the phrase “Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem."

    There's a difference between kneeling at the altar of big business and being anti-business. This administration gave 17 tax cuts to small businesses.... It easy to see that Wall Street is not suffering and neither is big business; they have $2.2 trillion in reserve...Label of choice do not want them to pollute in favor of profits nor do they think that they are the most vulnerable in this economy.

    I heard something yesterday that puts a finger on the situation but I can't remember who said it...They said conservatives can stand behind capitalism and be against unions as a whole but Democrats support capitalism and unions.

    I don't know who" you guys" are because I'm certainly not a spokesman for group think. I wear the "liberal label" proudly because of the role it played and continues to play in civil rights, tolerance of fellow human beings, clean air and water, and a healthy respect for rule of law but I can only speak for myself. I certainly don't have the audacity to speak for conservatives or liberals. I'm glad to see that you're reading but if you look to the left (no pun intended) at Hastings or the or that darn public library, you will find two or three books that contradict the message you are trying to convey. In fact I'm reading a couple of anti-conservative books titled" The Righteous us Mind" and the " Reactionary Mind" and when I finish them I'll download "It's Even Worse than it Looks" by Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein, a book about how the Tea Party has moved today's GOP to the far right... I read them for information and enjoyment but I am not that pretensions to think the views of those authors are a "truth certain."
    Your revisionist history is not how I see it. I saw how college graduates went from 6% to 20% because of the G.I. bill and Democrats embraced it, Democrats passed Medicare which seniors still love today and supported strong unions that that gave us the 40 hour work week, safety in the workplace, and decent wages and benefits. Democrats backed President Eisenhower's Federal highway system and President Nixon's EPA.

    I will do a blog sometime next week or so on how transporting coal is becoming an environmental hazard. And your words by President Obama are taken out of context. Cheap natural gas is what's driving the coal industry out of the country. How much black lung do we have to tolerate for this cheap source of energy? One of the most liberal senators in the country, Jay Rockefeller, and one and the most conservative democrats in the senate are fighting feverishly to preserve coal; not because of ideology but because it's a livelihood for West Virginia.

    June 5, 2012 at 10:38 a.m.

  • That's an interesting take chupakabra and you might be right; it's a referendum on President Obama... That's a good strategy unless the economy starts to rebound and Romney is stuck with the " rope-a-dope" strategy.... You know when Met pitcher Johan Santana threw his no-hitter ,there was a controversial call that could've been ruled a hit and there also was an outstanding catch..You can't discount a little controversy and hard work..... It is my opinion that most elections are about the future and right now Romney is behind in the polls but it's early.

    June 5, 2012 at 9:46 a.m.

  • Romney is leading right now. We don't have to do anything. Romney's team is treating him like a pitcher with a no-hitter going. We are not going to upset his apple-cart. Romney does not have to do anything and neither does his supporters for Romney to win in November. We don't have to convince anybody. Obama is the one on his heels right now.

    June 5, 2012 at 9:22 a.m.

  • Beakus-
    Your point is well taken. From what I've seen one of the most telling bias against Romney has come from the the Republican Party. Maybe the convention will change some of that perception but their support has been tepid at best. The country is in dire straits and it will be intersting to see how receptive the country will be to vitriolic hating of the President as a solution to what ails us.

    It will be interesting to see how well "You hate Obama don't ya!" sells.

    June 5, 2012 at 7:55 a.m.

  • You can coin the phrase, conservatives as being anti-government, but why is it the liberals are so anti-business? And why is it they champion social justice? After all social justice is a key component of the entire liberal agenda. Why do liberals declare (War) on everything they disagree with? Liberalism was re-invented after World War II, because America went back to work they were buying, building homes, good jobs, and prosperity was on the horizon, that did not fit well with democrats, because they were losing the edge on liberalism. Heck you guys floated social justice across the pond from Europe. Even back in the 1800’s democrats didn’t like the fact that Americans were producers, and not living in the inner cities, but liberals are really not into history, because it paints a much bigger picture then they are willing to admit too. Now that is just a plan fact no fiction there.

    EPA, one of the most destructive government agencies, not only is it a job killer, it also slows economic growth, now that is a fact. “Obama, you can build a new coal plant, but we will bankrupt you.”

    IRS… is a necessary Evil. But there has to be a better way.

    June 5, 2012 at 7:10 a.m.

  • This comment was removed by the user.

    June 5, 2012 at 7:06 a.m.

  • LOL!

    Believe as you may, but 1-5 those statements are incorrect although #5 does have some truth, (Unions) have out served their usefulness. Truly sounds as if 1-4 came right out of the liberal agenda play book, you know when you turn the page. Then there are those contradictions of words, you know give us more and we will have a “more” efficient government. However I am curious about that word (label), liberals normally avoid using that word. I would say, with all of the contradictions… yes liberals do believe in bigger government.

    June 5, 2012 at 5:28 a.m.

  • Don’t vote, it really does not matter who wins “President Obama or Romney”.

    June 5, 2012 at 3:47 a.m.

  • Oh ye of little faith ,of course you will see another Republican prez in your lifetime..:-)
    This race is real tight despite your perception of media bias.

    I believe the networks are treating Romney better than his fellow Republican during the debates.....Yesterday,I heard George Will go after the Romney spokesman.

    I would like to see Romney go on Meet the Press instead of hiding at Fox.

    June 4, 2012 at 5:53 p.m.

  • Somewhat off the subject, but I am amazed at watching all the major TV networks, excluding Murdock's Fox News, and the amazing amount of positive and uplifting stories on President Obama and his presidential campaign while the USA is in dire straits. We may never see another Republican president in my lifetime, but if we do, I will have to see if these networks respond in the same positive way. These same networks are not complimentary towards Mitt to even make their bias more obvious.

    June 4, 2012 at 5:24 p.m.

  • The "redistribution of wealth upward" must have been a subliminal message because I heard that too but can't remember where...:-)

    June 4, 2012 at 5:07 p.m.

  • Republicans have proven themselves as being quite adept at growing government as our Governor has well demonstrated.

    The "redistribution of wealth upward" as regards the Bush tax cuts was an expression I heard for the first time this weekend.

    The antigovernment Medicare &Social Security check cashers, I believe, are known as Tea Partyers.

    June 4, 2012 at 5:05 p.m.

  • cattleman

    Let me explain this way...In time of war we hire more government employees( armed services and administrative) and when Homeland Security started taking on the financial transactions of our enemies; we had to hire more IRS agents. In fighting terrorism we need more Arabic speaking translators.

    At times, like today the EPA is understaffed and so is the FDA. Do we want to sacrifice quality and air and water?

    I would say that the Department of the Interior's Mineral Management Service (MMS) was understaffed at the time of the BP spill.

    Under-staffing at the SEC and was one of the reason for the 2008 financial crisis.

    I've always said that 18 intelligence agencies give us a lot of redundant information. I'm also said that we need to start eliminating defense contractors and their employees and and turn those duties back over to the military.

    As for the current departments, there is probably a lot of room for realigning , merging, and elimination.

    Small government is just a buzz word that is not based on actual numbers because no one wants more bureaucracy than it needs.

    June 4, 2012 at 5:03 p.m.

  • I have been around quite some time - and never have seen "more" government fix anything. I believe the correct word is "some" government - but do agree the word lacking in our government now is "efficient."

    June 4, 2012 at 4:44 p.m.

  • 1928?

    I'm reminded of a saying by that great statesman,Daniel Patrick Moynihan "
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

    Like I said And efficient government is the goal whether it be more EPA,IRS and SEC in a period of time or less after the problem is solved.

    No magic number.

    June 4, 2012 at 4:20 p.m.

  • In 1928, then New York governor Al Smith famously said, “All the ills of democracy can be cured by more democracy.” So what does that say about liberals? Liberals are for Big Government that is a true statement… It is the liberal social theme (Goodness) bigger government, more Goodness will prevail.

    June 4, 2012 at 4:08 p.m.