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Wayward, Your last comment made me recall my first wedding shower where my good friend showed up and we chuckled over high school boyfriends and the way we were. I was so thankful that she had lived through her heart conditions her junior year, and graduated with us, went on to college, and I just gushed on and on as soon to be brides often do. She looked me into right in the eye, and told me that for someone so smart, I had to be the dumbest female on the face of the earth. Her heart condition had been a pregnancy, she gave up the baby for adoption, and the kicker was that my old boyfriend was the dad. He was my surfer dude, guy. I guess I should have asked her to come surfing with us. Nope, pregnancies without the gold band were definitely not addressed the way they are today. My friend just told me today that her son is pregnant. I said congratulations and she said when the vows are taken, I'll be invited to the baby shower. She complimented her future DIL for forcing the issue. They have been living together for nine years, and she commented that was longer than most marriages last today. What a world we live in-I still think I like being clueless.
Ex...you make a good point about things being a fact of life and not being able to be punished out of people, but I'm not sure I completely agree. I don't know your age, but I'm old enough to remember that in my high school with about 1600 students, there were VERY FEW pregnancies. Back then, if a boy got a girl "in trouble" there were consequences. The girl could not attend school after she began to show. The couple got married and the boy generally dropped out of school and got a job. Even if he stayed in school, he could not participate in any interscholastic activities -- he was married, don'tchaknow. Girls who got pregnant were looked on generally as sluts, not as role models. Many times, they "went to live with an aunt" until after the baby was born. Getting pregnant was a disaster that could ruin your lives -- both of you -- and it seldom happened. I don't know about the adultery -- I wasn't old enough to hear discussions among the grownups about that. It really was a different world back then just after the glaciers melted. I don't know that we were any more moral than kids now, but we were afraid of what could (and would) happen if we got our girlfriend pregnant. So, I do think punishment or social pressure, whatever you want to call it, can have an effect. If society decided this afternoon that we would no longer give money from the government to young women who have babies out of wedlock, I'll bet a Whopper against a Big Mac that eleven months from now, there would be a decided decrease in the number of teen pregnancies.
Kinda tough there, exresident. Equal rights activist in me is ok with stoning both sexes-just kidding. Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it. We aren't born to be naturally moral. We choose to be moral, but always fail because we are human and with a sin nature. Jesus came to save the sinner, cover the sins with His shed blood, and give us access to the throne of God. Dang it, here I go again.
I meant to type "neither praise religion or condemn it..."
Morality has nothing to do with the Bible. We humans survived for at least 100,000 years (please don't reply "we've only been here 6000 years") before the "good" book made an appearance. Morality, I believe is an innate quality in humans, it can't be any other way otherwise we would long caused our own extinction.
However we are also at the whim a multitude of other forces, genetics, personality, our peer groups, the culture and environment we were born into. The current era also plays apart. We are learning to embrace the shrinking of the world as technology leaps ever faster ahead - too fast for us to keep up ideologically sometimes.
Some people have common sense and others seem to be lacking in this priceless commodity so let us neither blame religion or condemn it for the issues that face us.
Many of the laws were amended when Jesus came. Oh really? That is not what Jesus himself says in the Bible.He said you were suppose to follow the law. So I don't know where you got that the laws do not some how have to be followed because Jesus came.
Much of the quoting of biblical verses I have seen on this subject are from the old testament. When Jesus came He said He came many of these "laws" were amended by His blood shed for us on the cross. It was a societal change, an acceptance of the person but not of their actions. He taught that we should love one another as a person but that we should not blindly accept their wrong actions.
What begins as humor works its way into our society until the majority deem it acceptable. "As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord".
ORB...because we allow it.
Any girl has to have a partner in crime to get pregnant. Why does he get off Scott free?
ex..."Hey, these problem could be solved overnight, if we just get back to the biblical roots this nation was founded upon.
"If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you."Deuteronomy 22:20-21"
See, this is why I'm GLAD the laws in our nation don't have to conform to the bible. You say you are non-religious, yet you spout the barbarity quoted above like you endorse it. By the way, this is far more serious than mini-skirts and pants showing underware. This is about MURDER -- murder of one's child, no less. This is beyond disgusting.
Besides, in the words of the old Sheb Wooley song, "I like short shorts."
I believe both are to blame.
I pose yet another question....When did it become "cool" to wear your pants lower than your butt?
Yeah, ex, I understand they're from the bible. That's why I was wondering if you thought it was okay to commit murder against a young woman because she wasn't a virgin -- according to the bible. Yes, I do think it sounds like something that muslims would do (and have done) many times
It has nothing to do with the Bible (I am not very religious). It has to do with the decline of society as a whole. Watch the movie 'Idiocracy' and then you will see what got me pondering these ideas.
ex...So, are you saying that it's MORE moral to murder a teenage girl because she's not a virgin than for her to give her virginity to her boyfriend? Do you REALLY want to kill a man and woman who have an affair? Why does that sound like something we'd read about from Iran? This sounds far more like the horror stories we read about once in a while about "honor killings" that muslim families commit against their daughters. If that's your idea of coming back to a moral nation, I want none of it. Will you next be advocating the lopping off of heads of people who don't agree with your 15th century ideals of morality?