You somehow expect the largest monopoly in the country, the Federal Government, to somehow fix other monopolies? You expect to have someone you donot trust manage your health? I find that amusing. What is insulting is you want me to be forced to trust someone you admit that you donot trust with this bill.

Please provide a link to one, just one, 'pharmaceutical companies and other companies' scare tactic? You are repeating headlines with no substance. I offer substance, I provide logic, you provide tag lines. Go read the bill.

No I don't trust politicians. I just know that it cannot stay the way it is and all of the opposition and scare tactics are being made by the pharmiceutical companies and other companies that don't want to lose their mega-profits through competition.
Competition is what keep prices within range. Haven't you ever wondered why our drug costs are so much higher than other countries and we are not allowed to order from other countries when the drugs all come from the same place? It's a monopoly and that needs to be broken somehow. Competition!!
Can you figure out another way to break that monopoly?

I said it before and I'll say it again, regardless of who you are or what you do...a theif is a theif is a theif. Wheather it's the goverment, the poor, the rich or somebody on the streets. Everybody wants to cry about being poor but yet does nothing to help themselves. They expect somebody to hand them something for nothing. I wasn't hand to when I was young, I was raised to believe that if you want something, you work for it. To many people believe that it's owed to them because they are to lazy to work for it. Ok, I understand if there is a disability involved that prevents you from earning it but that's not always an excuse. I remember working when I was young at the auction ring and there was an older gentleman with only one arm that could pretty much out work anybody there. He didn't let anything stop him from working, and he didn't complain about working or expect anybody to hand him anything. If you tryed to help him without him asking, which he very seldom did, he would yell at you to get out of there, and he would aways say he wasn't handicaped he was handicapible. And that is something that has always stuck with me. When ever I hear of somebody complaining they cant work, it reminds of him and how he wouldn't let anybody stop him from earning his own money.

Suzy, you trust politicians? Go over to my other blog and read the bill, look at what is in it, the actual provisions. No one is solving any problem with this bill. All the problems identified with the current system will still exist, sans the choice of the individual. Please go read the actual bill. Look at if for what it is, not what you want it to be.

You still cannot see it. You and I are paying for it anyway, whether you look at it like theft, or I look at it like a necessary evil. The end result is the same. Our taxes will pay for it reguardless, whether in higher Medicare payments, higher taxes, higher product costs.
President Obama wants the insurance companies to pay for what they are getting premiums for. He wants to take away their loopholes that pass the costs onto us. He wants to stop the pharmaceutical companies' robbery. He is trying to find ways to take some of the burden off of us, and people like you are trying to block it every step of the way. YOu want to keep it like it is and it is going to become so unsustainable, that even you will be effected in time. I really do feel sorry for you that you cannot see what the future holds if "something" is not done about it, and soon.

Suzy, that is the crux of the problem. Theft through our government has become so common place and accepted that self proclaimed Christians even donot see it for what it is.

Thewaywardwind, I quote "There is no difference here except the thieves don't use guns -- they use the force of government and threat of jail.

That does include guns....if you refuse to participate, 'thugs' with guns will use firearms and leathal force against you if you try to continue going about your business. If you refuse, if you resist, you will be killed.

What you don't understand, is that you "will" pay for it one way or another anyway, reguardless of whether you know it or not. It is your choice how you want to pay for it.
Fact 1. America will not let people die in the streets.
Fact 2. To keep that from happening, money is taken from those who "have"...in many, many ways. some of which you are unaware of.
Fact 3. People will not just go crawl off into a hole and accept their fate.
Fact 4. If they are not given help, they will "take" it, and some of the ways that they take it, are not pleasant to other people.
Fact 5. Someone pays for indigent care and it's not the government, it's the taxpayers....you and me.
Fact 6. More and more are without insurance, so refer to the first 5.

Now, wouldn't it be better to find a way that takes more of the burden off of the few that "have" and spread it out a little bit?

Remember, that to be part of this Great Nation, you become your brothers keeper whether you know it, or like it. It's part of being American. It's the Unity that makes it work. Unfortunately, that is becoming lost. It is now turning into a me, me, me society and it is starting to lose it's strength.

OOPS! That was supposed to be "worked". Sorry 'bout that.

huygens..."The argument of taking what is mine to give to someone I donot know, someone you donot even know (and thus have no way of determining their need outside of a bureaucrat's decision) is extremely insulting."

Pardner, You call it insulting. You are a nicer person than I. It sounds more like stealing to me. If someone comes at you with a knife or gun and takes the things you have worded hard for, you'd call the cops and report a robbery. There is no difference here except the thieves don't use guns -- they use the force of government and threat of jail.

I wonder how Suzy would feel if she tithed every month to her church and every month the church handed it over to a crack head. Someone who would take and never give, someone who would never make their life better. Would she feel it was the Christian thing to do? Her money paying for a crack addicts life.

Exactly huygens. Why should I work hard for what is mine while people who do nothing want what is mine. It's the "What is mine is mine and what's yours is mine" mentality. If you want something go out and work for it. I'll have you know when I left home my parents didn't foot my bills. I earned everything I have and that includes paying my way through A&M.

Suzy, we understand better than you want to admit. Our attempt to use humor to lighten the mood, and sarcasm to show other the ridiculousness of their argument, is for the benefit of others. The argument of taking what is mine to give to someone I donot know, someone you donot even know (and thus have no way of determining their need outside of a bureaucrat's decision) is extremely insulting. The idea that others want to take this even further to the point of forcibly making me and others like me comply with that same bureaucratic process is insulting.

You alluded to being a Christian. If that is the case, what moral justification can you find for subjecting justamom, turkey, Victore, and myself to theft and compulsory enrollment into a program we donot want to be a part of? I can name dozens that say this is immoral and unchristian.

*rolleyes*. I can clearly see that neither of you have a clue as to what I'm talking about. You cannot see past your own nose. Oh well, I tried.

LMAO huygens........yeah mom don't you know your suppossed to be taking care of ALL of us?????? =)

justamom, you need to realize it is your fault and thus your responsibility to take care of all the people out there that cannot or willnot take care of themselves. What is wrong with you, do you not realize that you should take away from your children what you and your spouse work hard for so that suzy can give it to someone she feels is more deserving? Suzy knows what is best for your children and mine. She knows us intimately, can see into our dilemmas and daily vexing. It is up to her and people like her to take from our wallets to give to someone else she obviously know well enough to determine their needs. justamom, you should be ashamed of yourself wanting to horde what is yours for your and your children’s sake. How dare you try to work harder than others so you can provide for your family? How selfish of you.....

My sister who is still living has done it "on her own". Makes wonderful money and takes responsibility for her actions. She made her life what it is and she worked hard for it. Never asked for any handouts.

Suzy- I lived alone AND helped my family. You wouldn't be allowed to live by yourself if you were under 17 or the state you take you away. Therefore the statement about not having parents help does not apply. If you don't have parents the state puts you in a home with a parental figure. So yes I lived with my parents until 17. My parents would have not had children they cannot afford. Again, it still is the responsibility of the people. They don't have 20 kids and live off of welfare. They make a life and then have kids. Like I did. I was on my own for 3 years before I married. I would never have children by myself or sleep around and put myself in that situation. Again, I respect myself and I am responsible for my actions. It was early to mid 90's.

justamom, touchy, touchy. I hope I didn't hit a nerve. You still didn't say if you lived with your parents during this time. Did you have housing bills, electric, phone, water, plus food, car, gas, and entertainment expenses? You said that you got married at 20, so you really never had to do it all alone?
What your parents did or planned for has absolutely nothing to do with "your" efforts to "make it". There help got you halfway there. What would you have done had you not had the help of your parents? Close your eyes and put yourself in someone else's shoes. Could you have done it alone? Again, you are lucky that you had the help that you did. Many don't, but are still expected to do things in the exact way you did them, or they are called slackers.
I'm curious about something. In what decade was this all going on for you? It makes a difference whether it was 30 years ago, or in the last decade.

Huygens,

I totally agree with your take on the issue. I have worked hard all my life to have a nice retirement and I enjoy it every day. I’m certainly not willing to give up any more than I have to. I pay my fair share in taxes and then some. Although she leads me to believe that she is willing to give up her soul. That is a sad thing to do. I should have phrased my remark a little different. I’m all for giving some one a helping hand or a leg up in the time of need. But, one must be responsible for their on action and not wait for the government to do it for you. Hard work is something to be proud of.

As mundane as it may sound, if you give a man a fish you feed him for a day, if you teach him to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. You obviously consider yourself a Christian. What does the Bible teach us about stealing? Who are you to take from me to give to someone else? Is that a Christian thing to do? That is what you are admonishing? Why cannot those that need go to their local churches for help? Local charity programs for help? I have a good friend without insurance that recently acquired a large debt along with misc. other bills associated with his injury. We did a fund raising campaign for him. No it didnot fix everything, but it will help him through this event in his life and he appreciates what was done for him. He will have to work hard to continue making it through, but he will make it. No one appreciates a hand out from the government. Not those that receive it, not those that it is taken (stolen) from, and definitely not those that decided for me that I needed to give up my money (those that voted to seal it from me). Any form of Socialism is immoral and un-Christian.

Suzy-
I paid for ALL of my bills while in school. My parents were responsible enough to know BEFORE they had kids to save and plan. They were responsible. I had insurance yes, again, because my parents were RESPONSIBLE! Stafford loans are optional. Grants are not loans. Facts first. You don't have to recieve loans. Pell covers almost everything you need to go to school. Work and pay for the rest. Like I did. I drove an old car I bought for 200 dollars, I ate Ramen noodles and PB and J sandwhiches on a daily basis. Watch what you say about what I have and have not been through. My parents were caring for my older sister who was mortaly ill and I still had enough left over to help buy her movies tickets and dinners to get her out of the house. Again, RESPONSIBILITY.
You said "True, but one's responsibilites are not the same as someone else's." Responsibility is the same, priorities are different.

In the first place, I have very good insurance, so I am not talking about myself, but I've been where some of these poor people have been, so I understand and see the other side of things.
It's all about numbers. It's not possible for everyone to go to college, and if it happened, those degrees would mean nothing. It's not possible for everyone to get good paying jobs that support them entirely. It's not possible for grants and scholarships to pay for everyone that wants to go to college. It's not possible for everyone to be able to pay for their own healthcare. It's not possible for everyone to have a job as there are not enough jobs to go around. There will always be those who need help and it is our Christian duty to help those who cannot help themselves. With that said, I feel that people who do not need to be on public assistance, should be removed from the rolls, but to where??? Remember, there are not enough jobs to go around and if enough jobs are made available, it takes away from those with good jobs right now.

If anyone can come up with the answers, or a solution, he would be a genius. But, things cannot stay like they are now. something needs to change.

Victore, this goes much further beyond what Suzy is willing to give up to the Government. What those that support this bill are giving up is not theirs to give up. Suzy wants me to pay for her healthcare, she has decided that I am somehow responsible for her. Suzy wants my children to pay for her children's healthcare, because she knows people like me will work harder than most to make sure my children go to college (even though they donot qualify for grants) and get responsible jobs. Suzy is not giving anything up, she wants me and people like me to give something up.

Suzy,
If the government gives you something. What are you willing to give up? The government going to want something back.

We need to separate "health care" from "health insurance". Insurance should be used strictly for major events, not doctor visits for minor illnesses or injuries. I'd love to have lower insurance premiums and pay out-of-pocket for routine visits. Minor health care for the poor should be handled through small-scale voluntary charities.

More competition, less government!

What are you saying then Suzy? This bill will make me responsible for the mistakes of others. Why would I want to be burdened with your mistakes, or you with mine?

What you describe as a perfect world sounds like a nightmare to me. Where is the aspiration and drive that pushes a society forward when there is no incentive to push yourself beyond your neighbors efforts? How does a society ebb and flow with progress when there is no reason to try harder as everyone will be made equal? Who will decide that enough is enough? What you describe is immoral.

Your perfect world exists in Canada. Go there and see for yourself. When did you last hear of a breakthrough discovery coming from Canada in any field? Name one from the last 20 years. I can name countless from our Healthcare industries alone.

I am by no means a memeber of the Grand Ole Party, and dont listen/watch to Glenn Beck. I am unsure what lies you are refering to, I have posted either personal opinions or items related to actual news worthy events. The lies are clearly coming from those that are atempting to support or push through this bill. Can you qualify your statement and provide and example of a 'lie' I have bought into?

I didn't say that. I was just pointing out that it's not as easy for many people as it was for her. She should not assume anything or judge what she has not lived through herself.
In a perfect world, everyone would go to college and have others pay for it (grants, scholarships, etc.), there would be jobs for all of those people who went to college when they graduated and when the sheer number of college gratuates hit the job market, employers wouldn't be able to lower the pay scale "because" of all of the people trained in that field. All people could afford insurance,etc..
Unfortunatley, that is only a dream.

Stop buying into the lies huygens. you sound more intelligent that to keep following the gop talking points. Read the Senate bill and stop listening to Glen Beck. He's a total wingnut.

Suzy, are you saying that because justamom's parents cared enough about her to take care of her that she should be yoked with the burden of subsidizing those whose parents either cannot or donot bother to take care of their children?

justamom had this to say...

I worked minimum wage for a few years (back when it was $4.15 hr), in those few years (15-19) I was covered with my parents insurance.

You are lucky that your parents had insurance that covered you. Millions of people don't have that luxury.

Also, in those years I went to college, worked hard and advanced myself in my area of field and by the time I was married at 20, I was making very good money and paid for my own insurance.

Again, you are lucky that you had your parents support during this time. Did you stay in your parents house while you were going to college? Did they provide you with food and clothes and other expenses that your pay did not cover?

Don't give me the "I can't afford to go to college" crap either. That's what Pell Grants and Stafford loans are for. Anyone can go to a community college and better themselves they just don't want to.

If "Everyone" that wanted to go to college used Pell Grants and other loans, how long do you think those loans would be in existance? They only have so much money and surely not enough for everyone.

They prefer to sit and collect help instead of helping themselves.

This may be true for some, but it is not true for those who have to work to help their families with healthcare, food, housing, and other essentials. Don't judge everyone by your own perceptions of how things are.

It boils down to responsibility.

True, but one's responsibilites are not the same as someone else's.

Nor am I saying that people do not use the system, but many, many do not.

Victor, you are correct. Congress doesn't bother to read the bills they pass, this one is no different. There are so many lies and misconceptions floating around out there coming directly from Congress, it is sickening. It is such a shame so many people fell for and clamored for 'change'. Marketing makes all the difference in this world and substance is so yesterday.

After listen to the Presidents town hall early today on healthcare, I truly think he’s just as confused as everyone else. He appears not to have a clue as to what congress is doing. He sounds like a used car salesman and doesn’t no what cars are on the lot to sale. He doesn’t no how it’s going to be paid for he has no specific answers on any part of his healthcare reform plan. He says one thing and congress says something else. This President has created a MONSTER and doesn’t no how to handle it. I think this MONSTER it about to bite him in the butt..

justamom....again people donot want to be responsible for themselves. They want you and me to take care of them. We have become a selfish and self centered nation.

I worked minimum wage for a few years (back when it was $4.15 hr), in those few years (15-19) I was covered with my parents insurance. Also, in those years I went to college, worked hard and advanced myself in my area of field and by the time I was married at 20, I was making very good money and paid for my own insurance. Don't give me the "I can't afford to go to college" crap either. That's what Pell Grants and Stafford loans are for. Anyone can go to a community college and better themselves they just don't want to. They prefer to sit and collect help instead of helping themselves. It boils down to responsibility.

I wonder how different the health care reform plans would be IF the president and his family, the VEEP and his family and all the Congress critters and their families were to fall under the reform plans. I know I would be a lot more likely to support the government plans if those particular people would be covered, but, hey, they have their own plan and it's too good to give up. If they aren't going to allow themselves to be covered by what they produce, why should I believe ANYTHING they say about health care reform? If it's as good as they say, they'd be covered by it.

justamom
If people could afford insurance, I'm sure they would buy it. Insurance is so far out of millions of people's reach. Do the math sometimes when you have a spare minute.
Part-time jobs do not help with insurance. Part-time jobs do not pay enough to cover basics. People who make minimum wage, working full-time, cannot afford insurance if their employers do not offer it. Those wages do not even cover the basics.
With the unlimited supply of cheap labor, what compells employers to offer a company plan?
How many people who have lost a job, who had insurance, suddenly find themselves without insurance, with problems that they have had for years and now because of the pre-existing clause, find themselves without insurance and unable to get another insurance. In those 3 months time, they can be wiped out financially. It's not theri fault, is it?
How many of those un-insured people use ER rooms for their medical care because that is the only option they have? How much of that cost is passed on to you and me, or those who have a insurance plan?
Your ideas are not realistic in the grand scheme of things. They will not fix the problems until healthcare costs are brought under control and more people are able to afford at least a basic insurance policy. This economy is not going to allow that on a large scale.

"Life expectancy is lower in America than many other nations. Again, I wish people would research before posting. MANY factors contribute. America has more obesity,violence and poverty than Japan or Canada. So that is not a fair comparison. Healthcare and health insurance is not the only factor."

Dont worry your pretty little head about obesity in this country. Under the bill, this is not made up, are provisions that although vague (that is how this starts) give the fed the ability to monitor and control you caloric intake. In essence, they will be able to monitor your food consumption and deny you services based on bad choices in your diet.

"You have choices, you will not suffer as bad if you study and prepare." Those that support this bill donot want choices, they want it done for them. We have become a nation of people that expect the Government to fix all of our problems for us, and each time we let them 'fix' something they find a way to gum up the works. I think this time they have bitten off more than they can chew though.